Tivo Exits the Hardware Business - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 51 Old 01-28-2014, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by laridae View Post

This might be a naive question, but if TiVo gets out of the DVR hardware business does that open the door for other manufacturers to step in and fill the void?

I'm thinking here about standalone units with very low or no monthly service charges. The kind of product that would be popular with the supposedly growing number of cord-cutters.

Due to the expense (paying to license Tivo patents), I doubt any company would be interested in filling the void.
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post #32 of 51 Old 01-28-2014, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TNO821 View Post


Due to the expense (paying to license Tivo patents), I doubt any company would be interested in filling the void.

 

I guess Channel Master, Philips, Simple.tv and others didn't get the word.

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post #33 of 51 Old 01-28-2014, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TNO821 View Post


Due to the expense (paying to license Tivo patents), I doubt any company would be interested in filling the void.


But patents are for ensuring that others don't copy your ideas and compete with your products, right? So, if TiVo aren't making hardware anymore, how do they stop someone from producing something that they aren't making anymore?

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post #34 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 03:11 AM
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No, rather that's where tunnel vision comes in. It's paying for the TiVo service and hardware. A few like to dismiss all of the other features so they can justify saying it should be free.
The "tunnel vision" comes from TiVo, not the consumer and sure as hell NOT from me. I never stated, implied or suggested that their Guide should be for free.

It's a real simple scenario; charge a reasonable price for the hardware, then offer additional services, the Guide in this case (what you are calling "software") for a additional reasonable charge.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #35 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

It's a real simple scenario; charge a reasonable price for the hardware, then offer additional services, the Guide in this case (what you are calling "software") for a additional reasonable charge.

 

This is exactly what they have been doing for over a decade. However Guide is not equal to Software (service). As without their software the guide (TV listings) has no value.

 

Hardware - $150 for Roamio (of late)

Service - Monthly $15 or Lifetime $400 (new customer promo code)

 

I have always found their pricing very reasonable for what they offer. In fact I have never seen anyone offer more for less.
 

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I never stated, implied or suggested that their Guide should be for free.

 

So the age old debate simply comes down to the definition of reasonable. I find $15 and $400 reasonable. What is reasonable to you? And what are you basing it on...

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post #36 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 07:38 AM
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Based on the competition, $250 for the base model (w/HDD). $30- $50 a year for the "Guide" (program listings). I have never seen any consumer 'manufacture' charge for software to allow a product to operate. Actually, it would be "firmware". Now there may be some companies that may charge for a firmware update, but by far most do not.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #37 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Based on the competition, $250 for the base model (w/HDD). $30- $50 a year for the "Guide" (program listings). I have never seen any consumer 'manufacture' charge for software to allow a product to operate. Actually, it would be "firmware". Now there may be some companies that may charge for a firmware update, but by far most do not.

 

Using your reasonable logic which others may agree or disagree with...

 

$250 - Hardware

$300 - 6 yrs of service (software)

-------

$550 - Your Reasonable Price

 

TiVo actual pricing...

 

$150 - Hardware (base model)

$400 - Lifetime (with new customer promo code)

-------

$550 - TiVo Actual Price - After six years of service it's beyond reasonable.

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post #38 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 08:44 AM
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But. that is only if the customer opts for the program guide. It's called, having an option, having a choice, nothing is forced on you. wink.gif

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #39 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

But. that is only if the customer opts for the program guide. It's called, having an option, having a choice, nothing is forced on you. wink.gif

Without the program guide then wouldn't it be just a digital VCR? That sucks. That is what I used to record HD with in the early 2000's. Once the HDTiVo came out in 2004 I rarely used the digital vcr. And now I would never consider going back to recording content like that. It would be a PITA.

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post #40 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

But. that is only if the customer opts for the program guide. It's called, having an option, having a choice, nothing is forced on you. wink.gif

 

Once again it's not a program guide rather a service you are paying for (software). If you purchase the hardware you are free to view live TV. If you want DVR features along with many others (Netflix, etc) you purchase the service.

 

I don't see anybody being forced into anything... what are they forcing on you? You already stated the guide shouldn't be free. If it's not free you aren't asking for any options... you either pay for it or you don't. Just like the rest of the world.

 

You have already stated their pricing can be more than reasonable (via the prices you listed). What option is not being offered? Looks like to me your entire complaint is that TiVo offers too many features as you aren't complaining about the price. You would prefer they remove everything except "a guide" and you would be happy paying what they currently charge. You already stated it was fair. Simple solution don't use all of the other features.

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post #41 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
But. that is only if the customer opts for the program guide. It's called, having an option, having a choice, nothing is forced on you. wink.gif

Once again it's not a program guide rather a service you are paying for (software). If you purchase the hardware you are free to view live TV.

 

Hey, there's a new acronym for us... a DVV (Digital Video Viewer)! :D 

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post #42 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Based on the competition, $250 for the base model (w/HDD). $30- $50 a year for the "Guide" (program listings). I have never seen any consumer 'manufacture' charge for software to allow a product to operate. Actually, it would be "firmware". Now there may be some companies that may charge for a firmware update, but by far most do not.

Actually, the "firmware" in most TiVos is just a BIOS and the code required to boot the Linux operating system, which then loads the TiVo application software from the disk drive. All of the heavy lifting is done by the DVR application software loaded from disk. I believe that the new TiVo Roamio series firmware contains some version of the application software which can be copied to a new empty disk drive until the latest version can be downloaded from TiVo's servers, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't run as firmware.

I do have some sympathy for your position. As long as their hardware price covers the cost of the hardware, it would be gracious of TiVo to allow unsubscribed units to record manually like a VCR, with no guide data and no software updates. An unsubscribed unit could be reactivated for a minimum period of (say) one year (to prevent people from subscribing for one month just to get a software update). I doubt that TiVo will ever do anything like that. It would be wonderful if a TiVo or something similar could be bought for $49.95, but that's just not realistic. I recently bought a new TiVo Roamio with lifetime service, so I guess I believe they're worth the price.
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post #43 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 12:31 PM
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The prices are easily worth it now. With some of the recent special deals, people picked up Roamio Pros for $400, the Romaio Plus for $300 and the Roamio Basic for $150( plus $400 for lifetime). I paid $600 plus tax for my launch Romaio pro plus $400 for lifetime service. And I felt that was easily worth it back in August. Although I also sold two Tivo Elite boxes to cover most of the cost.

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post #44 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 01:15 PM
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All this nonsense complaining would stop if TiVo would just eliminate the option of the monthly subscription and just sell the boxes outright for a fixed price like Moxi did. Then all the complaining would be reduced to people who wanted it but didn't want to pay the price for it so they bash it. Kind of like the people who call a BMW an overpriced piece of junk.

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post #45 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 01:36 PM
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All this nonsense complaining would stop if TiVo would just eliminate the option of the monthly subscription and just sell the boxes outright for a fixed price like Moxi did. Then all the complaining would be reduced to people who wanted it but didn't want to pay the price for it so they bash it. Kind of like the people who call a BMW an overpriced piece of junk.

Where are the Moxi products now? TiVo has it right. They give people a choice. It would be worse to only have one option. What is right for one person is not necessarily right for another. Most of my TiVos have had lifetime but not all. With my Roamio Basic I transferred my $6.95 rate from my Premiere to the Roamio BAsic. I did not want to pay $400 for lifetime on the box. And at $6.95 it will take over 57 months to reach the cost of lifetime. Since $6.95 is so inexpensive I don't mind if I pay it for longer than those 57 months. If the only option was lifetime then I would have never purchased the Roamio Basic. I would have just stuck with my $6.95 a month Premiere for OTA. I also have a Roamio Pro and two Minis on lifetime. (And they gave me $99 lifetime on the Premiere after I transferred the $6.95 rate)

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post #46 of 51 Old 01-29-2014, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

But, that software is already on the included drive.
.
Isn't that the way they have always done it?

The Roamio is the first TiVo where you can throw in a blank drive(up to 3TB) and it will populate it with the TiVo software. Previously if you tried that, the TiVo would do nothing. You had to copy the image of the old drive onto a new one.

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post #47 of 51 Old 01-30-2014, 07:11 AM
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I'm probably way off base here, but I wonder, now that Tivo is exiting the "hardware" business, if they'll consider developing an HTPC-type media player/DVR software, that's hopefully "copy once" compatible.
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post #48 of 51 Old 01-30-2014, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dweezil is in View Post

I never bought a TiVo because I hated their software despite loving their hardware.

 

Compared to the rest of the market I have never had an issue with TiVo's software. At the same time I have been disappointed over the years with its lack of growth. I have often thought they should offer two or three versions with their current state being basic. Add additional Internet support and charge a one-time fee of $99 or whatnot. Perhaps better local streaming for another $99 one-time fee. Just like the App world we currently live in there are lots of opportunities to pick up some easy money and benefit from those willing to spend it rather freely.

 

At the same time I understand their mantra is make it simple (to use) and to a large degree they are very successful. However just like their hardware where their high-end models cost very little extra to produce which results in margins that are much greater why not offer the same with their software...

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post #49 of 51 Old 01-30-2014, 07:45 AM
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I'm probably way off base here, but I wonder, now that Tivo is exiting the "hardware" business, if they'll consider developing an HTPC-type media player/DVR software, that's hopefully "copy once" compatible.
Wouldn't that be cool. To have Win-TiVo take the place of a fading WMC. If that were a possible future I, for one, would root for an early demise of their HW business.
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I have often thought they should offer two or three versions with their current state being basic. Add additional Internet support and charge a one-time fee of $99 or whatnot. Perhaps better local streaming for another $99 one-time fee. Just like the App world we currently live in there are lots of opportunities to pick up some easy money and benefit from those willing to spend it rather freely.
The notion of selling add-ins to increase functionality in areas where people would like is appealing -- whether it be for boxes they sell or a PC version of their system. The difficult part is identifying those areas that would provide adequate payback for the corporate development and support costs. To that end it would be better if they enabled 3rd party developers to contribute to a TiVo "App pool" -- lots of unemployed college kids looking to write apps for anything. Once you get third parties writing apps for your system you cement it like Android and iOS.

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post #50 of 51 Old 01-30-2014, 09:49 AM
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Bickering removed.

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post #51 of 51 Old 01-30-2014, 07:09 PM
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TiVo's purchase of Digitalsmiths - further proof of their future strategic direction into software and the cloud;

 

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/01/29/3573962/tivo-acquiring-durhams-digitalsmiths.html

 

Looks like they'll be competing with "streamers" like Simple.tv and Tablo in the future. Interesting!


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