new phd vrx or used tivo 3 with lifetime service - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 03-10-2014, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok now that I"m at $200 mark I start asking myself am I better off getting new phd vrx or a used tivo 3 with lifetime service, thx, 250gb drive, wifi adapater. They both have dual tuners and work with digital ota (my whole purpose of getting) only real benefit of vxr is it's 1080p and tivo 1080i. I'm guessing tivo has better interface but it's 8 year old hardware tech. For about the same money but lessor hard drive, no wifi, could get the tivo premier.

any thoughts?
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post #2 of 34 Old 03-11-2014, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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wow thought for sure there would be some thoughtful discussion.

At this point I'm leaning towards premeir with lifetime
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post #3 of 34 Old 03-11-2014, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by shogan69 View Post

wow thought for sure there would be some thoughtful discussion.

At this point I'm leaning towards premeir with lifetime

I might have left a comment but have no clue what a phd-vrx is. I can tell you the Premiers are excellent DVRs and the Roamios are even better.
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post #4 of 34 Old 03-11-2014, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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epivision prime dtv phd vrx.

Found a local premiere xl for $50 figured I would try it see if I like it.

I started out on the tivo 3 $250 -300 then figured it would be 8 year old hardware and found lots of problems with it. So then I decided to look at premeir. $320 with lifetime and then another $50 for wireless. And if I wanted one with a bigger drive now I'm $450-500.

So this if $50 and we will see how we like it for a month. If nothing else I'll have a cheap tuner.
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post #5 of 34 Old 03-11-2014, 06:20 PM
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Just read the VRX thread and you'll see the woes dozens of people have reported with trying to use one. It's more of a bad joke than a DVR, so save yourself the headache and get the TiVo.
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post #6 of 34 Old 03-13-2014, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I have the premier home. working on first month with 30 day money back guarantee so they say.

Probably won't keep the service at 19.95 per month. While i like the service it isn't worth that much money.

So a tuner and basic recorded it will be.
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post #7 of 34 Old 03-13-2014, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by shogan69 View Post

I have the premier home. working on first month with 30 day money back guarantee so they say.

Probably won't keep the service at 19.95 per month. While i like the service it isn't worth that much money.

So a tuner and basic recorded it will be.

I thought it wouldn't record without a subscription?
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post #8 of 34 Old 03-13-2014, 10:47 PM
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You can pause live TV without a subscription, but you can't schedule any recordings to occur when you're not there.
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post #9 of 34 Old 03-14-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

You can pause live TV without a subscription, but you can't schedule any recordings to occur when you're not there.

So it will record manually? as in push the red record button to start?
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post #10 of 34 Old 03-15-2014, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking it would record like a vcr time and day but not have any guide data. But I have not tried it so don't know for sure.
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post #11 of 34 Old 03-15-2014, 03:37 PM
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Only non-HD TiVos (series 1 and possibly series 2) have VCR-esque functionality without the guide service. The recording ability is totally disabled without the service in current models.
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post #12 of 34 Old 03-15-2014, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Only non-HD TiVos (series 1 and possibly series 2) have VCR-esque functionality without the guide service. The recording ability is totally disabled without the service in current models.

 

It amazes me that anyone would ever buy a box so blatantly tying you into their walled garden.

 

And it doesn't even have "Apple" on it! 


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post #13 of 34 Old 03-15-2014, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by laridae View Post

It amazes me that anyone would ever buy a box so blatantly tying you into their walled garden.

And it doesn't even have "Apple" on it! 

If you want the best that's the commitment you have to make. My first VCR cost $800 so a $400 lifetime subscription on a $100 to $200 DVR that's a thousand times better than that VCR seems like a bargain to me.
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post #14 of 34 Old 03-15-2014, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by laridae View Post

It amazes me that anyone would ever buy a box so blatantly tying you into their walled garden.

I don't understand it, either, but TiVo seems quite popular nonetheless.
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post #15 of 34 Old 03-21-2014, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by eric102 View Post


If you want the best that's the commitment you have to make. My first VCR cost $800 so a $400 lifetime subscription on a $100 to $200 DVR that's a thousand times better than that VCR seems like a bargain to me.

 

Oh, I don't mind TiVo making a good box, charging a fair-market price for it and making a profit for their efforts and their expertise. That's the capitalist model and it works just fine.

 

But what I do object to is them deliberately hobbling it so it can't be programmed manually; it's useless without their program guide. That's just sharp practice to be avoided at all costs.

 

The fact that TiVo has such a huge following is very disappointing. As we used to say in the schoolyard "Never appease a bully"

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post #16 of 34 Old 03-21-2014, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by laridae View Post

Oh, I don't mind TiVo making a good box, charging a fair-market price for it and making a profit for their efforts and their expertise. That's the capitalist model and it works just fine.

But what I do object to is them deliberately hobbling it so it can't be programmed manually; it's useless without their program guide. That's just sharp practice to be avoided at all costs.

The fact that TiVo has such a huge following is very disappointing. As we used to say in the schoolyard "Never appease a bully"

Basically they sell the TiVo hardware for a hundred or two, and the Lifetime Guide for 4 or 5 hundred. So your talking six to seven hundred total.
If they sold the hardware for 4 or 5 hundred and the Lifetime Guide for a hundred or two, six or seven hundred total, would that make you feel any better? confused.gif

Don't ever make the MISTAKE of buying a Samsung TV..
They consider THIS
normal on a two month old set..

It's a shame that in the end TCU's playoff chances all came down to this . . .
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If they sold the hardware for 4 or 5 hundred and the Lifetime Guide for a hundred or two, six or seven hundred total, would that make you feel any better? confused.gif

...only if the guide was optional, most likely.
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post #18 of 34 Old 03-21-2014, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post


...only if the guide was optional, most likely.


That's right. Thank you Aleron.

 

In my mind the hardware and guide service are two completely separate things and should not be bundled together. I know of no legitimate, technical reason why the box couldn't be programmed manually so any linking of the two is unnecessary and artificial and serves only the business model of the company, at the expense of the consumer. If I purchase a product it should work right out of the box without requiring me to buy any additional products from them.

 

In my case I've been setting my old Sony PVR manually for years using the TV guide in my local newspaper, so I'm fine with that. I don't mind paying a good buck for hardware, but I will not pay anything for the convenience of the program guide. TiVo is free to offer whatever they want, but I ain't buyin' and I'd advise others to do the same.


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post #19 of 34 Old 03-21-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by laridae View Post


That's right. Thank you Aleron.

In my mind the hardware and guide service are two completely separate things and should not be bundled together. I know of no legitimate, technical reason why the box couldn't be programmed manually so any linking of the two is unnecessary and artificial and serves only the business model of the company, at the expense of the consumer. If I purchase a product it should work right out of the box without requiring me to buy any additional products from them.

In my case I've been setting my old Sony PVR manually for years using the TV guide in my local newspaper, so I'm fine with that. I don't mind paying a good buck for hardware, but I will not pay anything for the convenience of the program guide. TiVo is free to offer whatever they want, but I ain't buyin' and I'd advise others to do the same.

So it seems that you would be happy if TiVo would simply sell their device for 6 or 7 hundred dollars, and include the Lifetime Guide. smile.gif

Don't ever make the MISTAKE of buying a Samsung TV..
They consider THIS
normal on a two month old set..

It's a shame that in the end TCU's playoff chances all came down to this . . .
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post #20 of 34 Old 03-22-2014, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by laridae View Post

It amazes me that anyone would ever buy a box so blatantly tying you into their walled garden.

And it doesn't even have "Apple" on it! 

LOL, I see the usual suspects have resumed their Tivo bashing. Some things are nothing if not predictable.

Here's a clue - the box is sold with a service that enables DVR functionality. You can use it as a tuner with no DVR capability without the service, but if you want the box to do more than that you have to pay for the service. You wouldn't buy a cellphone and expect to make calls without paying for service (although you could use it for Wifi etc.). This is no different.
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post #21 of 34 Old 03-23-2014, 01:50 PM
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Some just don't understand (or want to grasp) the meaning or concept of "optional". rolleyes.gif

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #22 of 34 Old 03-24-2014, 08:02 AM
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Some refuse to understand (or grasp) the business model of selling a service with subsidized hardware to use the service. TiVo is exactly sold in the model of a cell phone. You are buying the service the company offers -- let me repeat that to penetrate the thick cranial layers out there -- when you buy TiVo you are buying the TiVo service. The box is just the subsidized hardware you need to use their service -- nothing more.

You can buy a Verizon cell phone on the open market -- and do nothing with it as far as communications unless you subscribe to the Verizon communication service. You can go to Verizon and buy a monthly service plan to use that phone, or you can first subscribe to a Verizon communications plan with a 2-yr committment then buy a subsidized smart phone for only $100 to use the service you are purchasing -- stop paying for the service and your subsidized smart phone becomes useless. So why is TiVo evil for using the same model for their service product? Why should you feel entitled to be able to use their subsidized box for anything other than their service?

You don't like Verizon and their service plans with subsidized phones? -- are they evil too? OK, go buy a cheap prepaid burner phone off the rack at the supermarket. You pay a lower fee, get less features and less service and less quality. When it breaks you throw it away and buy another. There is your competition and this is analogous to the competition all the other lower-end DVR's that are out there provide for TiVo -- pay less money and get less product, perfect for people that only want less product. What we get here are the bitchers who want the quality and higher-end service of the full featured products but only want to pay the price of the burner phone. Welcome to the real world.

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post #23 of 34 Old 03-24-2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Some refuse to understand (or grasp) the business model of selling a service with subsidized hardware to use the service. TiVo is exactly sold in the model of a cell phone. You are buying the service the company offers -- let me repeat that to penetrate the thick cranial layers out there -- when you buy TiVo you are buying the TiVo service. The box is just the subsidized hardware you need to use their service -- nothing more....
 

Amen brother, this is the best analogy of the Tivo model I've ever read!

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post #24 of 34 Old 03-24-2014, 01:27 PM
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Yep. Think in terms of total cost of ownership rather than X for hardware and Y for guide data. The question the OP needs to ask himself is if $300 for a decent used Tivo with lifetime has more value than his $300 obsolete VCR-style PVR. And he needs to consider that his PVR has virtually no resale value, while Tivo is 50-75%, at least.

So what can you get for $300? A full HD recorder with 2 OTA tuners, 2 cable tuners, 150 hrs of HD recording space, simultaneous playback and record of each tuner, streaming services (Netflix, etc.), recording management from anywhere via smartphone/tablet/browser, full guide forever. Or a ten year old SD recorder with a single tuner that doesn't even work with digital TV, no guide, VCR-style timers, and very limited space.

If you don't mind going the PC route, and already have a PC, $300 can also buy a very full featured DVR with 4-6 tuners, free guide, streaming, web browsing, remote management, and whole home capability.
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post #25 of 34 Old 03-24-2014, 02:01 PM
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A DVR is not a telephone. Neither is a TV or a PC. A poor and inaccurate comparison.

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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

A DVR is not a telephone.

No, but Kelson's analogy is quite apt nonetheless. The "problem" is that TiVo has become so ubiquitous that people now associate TiVo's features with the basic functionality of a DVR, even though that is not the case. A digital video recorder, by definition, only needs to be able to record digital video, and time-based recording is a fully functional method of accomplishing that task. Name-based recording from a program guide is far more convenient and requires less user intervention, which makes it a highly attractive feature for people who watch a lot of TV; even so, it is not a necessary feature for a device to qualify as a DVR. It's just a necessary feature for a device to compete with TiVo in terms of functionality and convenience.
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post #27 of 34 Old 03-24-2014, 07:16 PM
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The new model is for hardware and services to be "unbundled". This is what consumer are demanding now.

 

I can buy a good quality, unlocked phone from Google and use it with any pay-as-you go service around the world. The only legitimate reason for a consumer to be tied to a cell supplier is 'till he pays off his purchase loan.

 

Similarly for TiVo. Their "walled garden" approach is dated and falling out of favour with consumers seeking more flexibility and fewer artificial restrictions.

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post #28 of 34 Old 03-25-2014, 04:37 AM
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No, but Kelson's analogy is quite apt nonetheless.
A telephone is a service that requires a 'subscription'. It's a utility.
DVR's are not, except TiVo. All other DVR's may have an option, this does not. As in NO choice. As in, forced on you if you want it or not regardless of the 'service' partly supporting (subsidizing) the hardware cost.

I can buy a TV, but I don't have to subscribe to Cable TV to use it. I can buy a Blu-Ray player with Internet access, but I don't have to subscribe to use the player. Both have choices, with TiVo you have none (if you ant to use it as a DVR, not just a tuner).
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post #29 of 34 Old 03-25-2014, 06:28 AM
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Yeah and we get it, for the 14th million time. Nothing you say is going to change how they sell their boxes, but you keep coming to every new freaking thread here that mentions Tivo and repeat the same exact bitch in every one.

It's beyond tired.
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post #30 of 34 Old 03-25-2014, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by laridae View Post

Similarly for TiVo. Their "walled garden" approach is dated and falling out of favour with consumers seeking more flexibility and fewer artificial restrictions.

When you roll your own 'open' DVR, get it Cablecard certified then put it on the market, let us know. We'll be sure to take a look.
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