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post #1 of 102 Old 08-25-2014, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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TiVo Roamio OTA DVR

TiVo Roamio OTA DVR detailed for cord-cutters (with a catch)



Found this SlashGear article:


http://www.slashgear.com/tivo-roamio-ota-dvr-detailed-for-cord-cutters-with-a-catch-25342584/


TiVo has revealed details on the new Roamio OTA, a set-top box and DVR for those who want time-shifting and recording but don't have cable or satellite service. Based on the existing Roamio, the $50 box hooks up to a regular HD antenna and packs four tuners for recording free over-the-air TV, though TiVo itself will levy a charge.



There's also a 500 GB hard-drive inside, which is good for up to 75 hours of HD content recording, and the Roamio OTA can squirt live and recorded video across the internet to the TiVo Stream app on smartphones and tablets.


The TiVo Roamio OTA will be offered in "select" markets from September 14th, TiVo says, priced at $49.99 upfront and then $14.99 per month thereafter. There's a minimum one-year agreement.
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post #2 of 102 Old 08-25-2014, 10:19 AM
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Sounds perfect for my brother and his family.
I may grab one of these with lifetime and give it to them....
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post #3 of 102 Old 08-25-2014, 10:19 AM
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Meh, still overpriced (with monthly sub or lifetime), compared to ChannelMaster's DVR+, Simple.tv and Tablo, which all have good EPG's. And, if you need barebones, there are the Homeworx 150PVR, iView 3500STBII, etc. Or, even just using the excellent WMC on a PC (direct or via ServerWMC).
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post #4 of 102 Old 08-25-2014, 11:38 AM
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Love it.
Assuming it has the standard lifetime option and all the features of the cable-enabled Roamio Basic -- especially network transfers and MRV with Mini's or additional TiVo's -- it makes a TiVo >$100 cheaper for an OTA user. Wish they came out with this before I bought mine.

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post #5 of 102 Old 08-25-2014, 12:03 PM
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If I had just a single TV, I would get this over a Tablo. The overall cost is better, and you get better features. (Now I wouldn't based on the update)

But with multiple devices in my household, I still think I am better off with my Tablo.

Question. Why does a Tivo mini require a subscription as well? It will be interesting to see if people buy multiple Tivo OTA DVRs (cheaper initial cost), or they buy one and then buy one or more minis (cheaper long term cost).

Update: I read the CNET article about it, and it does not include a lifetime subscription. The article also compares it to the Tablo, SimpleTv, Roamio, and the ChannelMaster DVR+.

Last edited by snowcat; 08-25-2014 at 12:45 PM.
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post #6 of 102 Old 08-25-2014, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by snowcat View Post
Update: I read the CNET article about it, and it does not include a lifetime subscription.
If that's the case, forget it. As much as I favor TiVo (have two), without a lifetime subscription option I would not give it a second look.

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post #7 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Love it.
Assuming it has the standard lifetime option and all the features of the cable-enabled Roamio Basic -- especially network transfers and MRV with Mini's or additional TiVo's -- it makes a TiVo >$100 cheaper for an OTA user. Wish they came out with this before I bought mine.
It does not, there is no Mini support. And monthly service only is WAY too expensive for this market. This box is DOA at those prices.
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post #8 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
It does not, there is no Mini support. And monthly service only is WAY too expensive for this market. This box is DOA at those prices.
The new Roamio OTA DVR does have Mini support http://www.tivo.com/discover/antenna, but spending $15 a month for an OTA channel guide is hideously wrong.

I would pick this up in a flash if it offerred lifetime...instead I'll soldier on with my Series 3.

EDIT: It is also compatible with the TiVo Stream, btw.

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post #9 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 06:58 AM
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I see there is the strong prejudged opinions about TiVo as usual coloring this offering. Does one really thing there won't be Lifetime at some point in time? Does one really thing not recording repeats and endless other exclusive features aren't worth anything... let's not be silly. It's not like they aren't still offering everything they were up to today. If you are going to use it forever simply purchase the basic Roamio with Lifetime and save some money.

The good news here is they are further addressing the OTA (only) market. Whether it's because of competition or they see the market growing. This can only help us OTA users down the road. Regardless of what avenue we follow.

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post #10 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drlink View Post
The new Roamio OTA DVR does have Mini support http://www.tivo.com/discover/antenna, but spending $15 a month for an OTA channel guide is hideously wrong.

I would pick this up in a flash if it offerred lifetime...instead I'll soldier on with my Series 3.

EDIT: It is also compatible with the TiVo Stream, btw.
it doesnt, it was an error:

https://twitter.com/tivodesign/statu...23673628422144

Quote:
No Mini, No Product Lifetime, No MSD. (It's a simple, very affordable product.)
the site is supposed to be fixed to reflect the error.

https://twitter.com/tivodesign/statu...28768537554944

and its crazy to me that people still cant understand the economics of anything. you are not being charged $15 just for OTA guide data! you say this like OTA guide data should be cheaper than cable guide data. Since Tivo hardware is subsidized (like your cell phone), you are being charged for hardware costs, you are being charged for guide data (tivo gets charged for it and passed to the customer), you are being charged for customer support, you are being charged for software updates, you are being charged hdmi licensing fees, you are being charged for dolby licensing fees, you are being charged for etc, etc, etc. not JUST OTA guide data.
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post #11 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post
its crazy to me that people still cant understand the economics of anything. you are not being charged $15 just for OTA guide data! you say this like OTA guide data should be cheaper than cable guide data. Since Tivo hardware is subsidized (like your cell phone), you are being charged for hardware costs, you are being charged for guide data (tivo gets charged for it and passed to the customer), you are being charged for customer support, you are being charged for software updates, you are being charged hdmi licensing fees, you are being charged for dolby licensing fees, you are being charged for etc, etc, etc. not JUST OTA guide data.
Stop trying to clear the air with facts -- what's wrong with you.

This is basically a TiVo-friendly thread. I can't wait for the usual suspects on other threads to start complaining that you can't use a $50 OTA Roamio without subscription for basic DVR functions with a PSIP guide.
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post #12 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 07:17 AM
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it doesnt, it was an error:

https://twitter.com/tivodesign/statu...23673628422144



the site is supposed to be fixed to reflect the error.

https://twitter.com/tivodesign/statu...28768537554944

and its crazy to me that people still cant understand the economics of anything. you are not being charged $15 just for OTA guide data! you say this like OTA guide data should be cheaper than cable guide data. Since Tivo hardware is subsidized (like your cell phone), you are being charged for hardware costs, you are being charged for guide data (tivo gets charged for it and passed to the customer), you are being charged for customer support, you are being charged for software updates, you are being charged hdmi licensing fees, you are being charged for dolby licensing fees, you are being charged for etc, etc, etc. not JUST OTA guide data.
The problem isn't that there is a monthly fee associated with an ota guide (although Tivo did offer the ota guide for $10 per month a few years back). The problem is that there is no lifetime option and that it doesn't work with Tivo peripherals. I know Charles R feels that lifetime subs will eventually happen, meanwhile you have to pay $180 for a years worth of guide service. And I don't think Tivo has ever given a discount on lifetime after only one year subscribing monthly. Without Mini support, four tuners will be wasted (for most people) on only one tv.

I wonder if MRV, transfers and Tivo Desktop are supported?
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post #13 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post
it doesnt, it was an error:

https://twitter.com/tivodesign/statu...23673628422144



the site is supposed to be fixed to reflect the error.

https://twitter.com/tivodesign/statu...28768537554944

and its crazy to me that people still cant understand the economics of anything. you are not being charged $15 just for OTA guide data! you say this like OTA guide data should be cheaper than cable guide data. Since Tivo hardware is subsidized (like your cell phone), you are being charged for hardware costs, you are being charged for guide data (tivo gets charged for it and passed to the customer), you are being charged for customer support, you are being charged for software updates, you are being charged hdmi licensing fees, you are being charged for dolby licensing fees, you are being charged for etc, etc, etc. not JUST OTA guide data.
Hey...this is just a discussion about a new product, right?

As Charles R posted above (assuming, as he said, "you are going to use it forever") it is more affordable to go with the basic Roamio and purchase Lifetime. Your cell phone comparison is apt in that the Roamio OTA DVR is only priced "reasonably" if you can't afford the up front cost of the basic Roamio and Lifetime...especially considering the tweet from TiVo Margaret Schmidt that it won't be able to utilize the Mini.

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post #14 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post
The problem isn't that there is a monthly fee associated with an ota guide (although Tivo did offer the ota guide for $10 per month a few years back). The problem is that there is no lifetime option and that it doesn't work with Tivo peripherals.
the $10 promo from a few years ago was a limited time offer for the 2 tuner premiere (just like this Roamio OTA, its a limited time offer) and had stipulations. it only had to be OTA, if you connected cable to it, the price went up. At that time the 2 tuner premiere had been out for a few years, so i assume they did the promo to move old inventory, do a market test on the viability of the product, and there was no need to recoup larger hardware costs since production costs went down after a few years. again, there are lots of things that factor into pricing and all of it has to do with running the business. If tivos Janitors union goes on strikes and demand pay raises, its coming out of your monthly fee, not their bottom line and certainly not from the 13 OTA channels that you get and its guide data.


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Hey...this is just a discussion about a new product, right?

As Charles R posted above (assuming, as he said, "you are going to use it forever") it is more affordable to go with the basic Roamio and purchase Lifetime. Your cell phone comparison is apt in that the Roamio OTA DVR is only priced "reasonably" if you can't afford the up front cost of the basic Roamio and Lifetime...especially considering the tweet from TiVo Margaret Schmidt that it won't be able to utilize the Mini.
yep, thats why you have to make an informed choice. in Margarets second tweet, she patronized the what im going to call the "poor/cheap/uninformed" consumer by saying a "very simple and affordable product". just give them the basics and reduce the initial price by $150 and call it a limited time and only sell it in one location, all they will see is that they saved $150, and crap, i have to get this now because if i wait, ill miss it and i dont want to pay $200 for the other OTA model!

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post #15 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 07:41 AM
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TiVo Roamio OTA DVR

This might me good for my in laws. They are not big fans of recurring monthly fees, though. What can this do without the subscription? Can it be manually programmed?
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post #16 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 07:50 AM
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What can this do without the subscription? Can it be manually programmed?
Possibly use it as an OTA tuner with no other features.

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post #17 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 07:55 AM
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This might me good for my in laws. They are not big fans of recurring monthly fees, though. What can this do without the subscription? Can it be manually programmed?
Don't ever purchase a Tivo without subscribing to the guide service. You'll be sorely disappointed and get pissed off at Tivo.
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post #18 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 08:08 AM
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Get a HTPC instead!

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Don't ever purchase a Tivo without subscribing to the guide service. You'll be sorely disappointed and get pissed off at Tivo.
Agreed, I dont see the point in using it as a TV Tuner if you dont get the guide info-most people now own a TV that has a built in OTA TV Tuner anyway... Then again I also don't see the point of paying $15 a month for eternity when you could just hook up a WMC HTPC that has an awesome DVR/Guide for no monthly rate plus offers a LOT more.
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post #19 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 08:51 AM
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Agreed, I dont see the point in using it as a TV Tuner if you dont get the guide info-most people now own a TV that has a built in OTA TV Tuner anyway... Then again I also don't see the point of paying $15 a month for eternity when you could just hook up a WMC HTPC that has an awesome DVR/Guide for no monthly rate plus offers a LOT more.
I have three Tivo's w/lifetime to record cable programming. But I also have a WMC HTPC that I use as an OTA 3-tuner dvr. I agree that WMC is great, but I wonder how long MS will be supporting it. It has been said that WMC won't even be a paid option in Windows 9.
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post #20 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post
I have three Tivo's w/lifetime to record cable programming. But I also have a WMC HTPC that I use as an OTA 3-tuner dvr. I agree that WMC is great, but I wonder how long MS will be supporting it. It has been said that WMC won't even be a paid option in Windows 9.
I hear you, but people have been saying that for a while now... Not to mention there are other FREE options out there beside WMC, so even if WMC D-day comes, you can still get the guide/DVR & everything else you need elsewhere with the same HTPC.
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post #21 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 09:26 AM
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I know Charles R feels that lifetime subs will eventually happen, meanwhile you have to pay $180 for a years worth of guide service.
Who says you have to purchase it September 12th? Again, the point is they are addressing the OTA only market. If it doesn't suit your needs today pass on it but more than likely going forward it will influence the market for the better.

I have been using and loving WMC for over two years and it's silly to suggest TiVo and WMC play to the same market. Sure there are a few people who can be crossovers but they aren't significant enough to drive the market. Pretty much the same thing about those wanting it "for free" You have to be pretty silly to not believe TiVo hasn't done x number of studies to compute pricing sweet spots. Every time they lower the cost they lose money from their mainstream customers who are willing to pay x. The few they would gain by paying y is certainly not going to offset the loss.

If OTA becomes a real market mainstream isn't going to endorse recording repeats, two tuners and the "featureless" other solutions. They are more than willing to pay as shown by the cell phone model.

Last edited by Charles R; 08-26-2014 at 09:35 AM.
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post #22 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 12:21 PM
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The only consumer that will be buying this thing is the uninformed consumer. That's not us, but it's sad that Tivo is pitching this is a cheap OTA box when it clearly isn't over time.
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post #23 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 12:25 PM
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i predict life subscription will be offered for Roamio OTA within 12 months, possibly sooner.

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post #24 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 03:22 PM
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i predict life subscription will be offered for Roamio OTA within 12 months, possibly sooner.
They would still need to enable use with TiVo Minis. This would be a good replacement for my GF which is OTA only with two Series 3 TiVos. But she would need to be able to use a Mini so she could view content from a secondary viewing location.

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post #25 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 03:36 PM
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Who says you have to purchase it September 12th? Again, the point is they are addressing the OTA only market. If it doesn't suit your needs today pass on it but more than likely going forward it will influence the market for the better.
But whose needs does it address? Cord-cutters should really be called cost-cutters, especially current cord-cutters and not the guys like us who love to tinker with tech. These people sure won't want to pay $15 per month for Tivo service.

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I have been using and loving WMC for over two years and it's silly to suggest TiVo and WMC play to the same market. Sure there are a few people who can be crossovers but they aren't significant enough to drive the market. Pretty much the same thing about those wanting it "for free" You have to be pretty silly to not believe TiVo hasn't done x number of studies to compute pricing sweet spots. Every time they lower the cost they lose money from their mainstream customers who are willing to pay x. The few they would gain by paying y is certainly not going to offset the loss.
I certainly didn't say that Tivo service should be free. I did say that lifetime should have been offered on this product. And that it should still work with Tivo Mini's.

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If OTA becomes a real market mainstream isn't going to endorse recording repeats, two tuners and the "featureless" other solutions. They are more than willing to pay as shown by the cell phone model.
I see your point about ota and no repeats. So 4 tuners does make sense. But a lot of cord-cutters don't watch that much network tv, opting instead for streaming services. While copying the "cell phone model" is smart from a business stand point. It sure is stupid for consumers. That is why people moved to Tivo from cable dvr's in the first place.

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The only consumer that will be buying this thing is the uninformed consumer. That's not us, but it's sad that Tivo is pitching this is a cheap OTA box when it clearly isn't over time.
Exactly right. The same people who helped make the "cell phone model" a success.
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post #26 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 03:52 PM
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But whose needs does it address? Cord-cutters should really be called cost-cutters, especially current cord-cutters and not the guys like us who love to tinker with tech. These people sure won't want to pay $15 per month for Tivo service.
There are cord cutter and cord never markets. I think the cord never market will be happy to pay just as they are with their cell phones.

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I certainly didn't say that Tivo service should be free. I did say that lifetime should have been offered on this product. And that it should still work with Tivo Mini's
That product already exists why would they duplicate it?

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But a lot of cord-cutters don't watch that much network tv, opting instead for streaming services.
Why do you think this supports streaming?... an all in one box.

All TiVo did was lower the entry fee and virtually guaranteed themselves they will make it up on the back end. Nothing more or less.

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post #27 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 04:09 PM
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There are cord cutter and cord never markets. I think the cord never market will be happy to pay just as they are with their cell phones.



That product already exists why would they duplicate it?



Why do you think this supports streaming?... an all in one box.

All TiVo did was lower the entry fee and virtually guaranteed themselves they will make it up on the back end. Nothing more or less.
I do agree that the subscription fee may be too much for the cheapskates who this is likely targeted at and a lifetime option may be more agreeable to these folks? Time will tell.
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post #28 of 102 Old 08-26-2014, 07:54 PM
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There are cord cutter and cord never markets. I think the cord never market will be happy to pay just as they are with their cell phones.
The majority of cord-nevers are 18 - 28 year olds with low paying jobs who live off their over-priced cell phone plans. Just the demo I would market to.


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That product already exists why would they duplicate it?
That's why I think this product is a fail. A superior option already exists and is less expensive in the long run.



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Why do you think this supports streaming?... an all in one box.
I never said that this box supports streaming. I said that's what a lot of cord cutters watch instead of network tv.
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All TiVo did was lower the entry fee and virtually guaranteed themselves they will make it up on the back end. Nothing more or less.
And the people buying this product will be taking it in the back end.
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post #29 of 102 Old 08-27-2014, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post
And the people buying this product will be taking it in the back end.
I can't make any sense out of the other lines so I won't comment. Regarding this one they would be treated a million times fairer than with mortgage interest.
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post #30 of 102 Old 08-27-2014, 10:47 AM
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Almost pulled the tiger to buy this Roamio OTA UNTIL I read the fine print that "Life time" subscription and multi unit discounts are NOT available. Tivo your marketing department is missing the boat on this. Cord cutters do NOT want to pay and monthly subscription. That is why they are cord cutters in the first place.

Love the Tivo have two with lifetime, first one purchased in 2000, so long time Tivo fan. But I will pass on Roamio OTA until lifetime is available. Would like to see mini support but less of a deal breaker.
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