Mag MDR865, 867, 868 HD DVRs w/DVD Burners, Line Inputs, Editing, Rec Modes, USB 3.0 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 590 Old 09-19-2015, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Magnavox MDR865, 867, 868 High-Def (HD) DVRs

N.A.'s first HD DVRs with DVD burners, line inputs, editing, HD/SD rec modes, and USB 3.0.

All "on-topic" AVS- and Amazon/Walmart-user operating tips are incorporated in this post. No FUD.


These Mags are a "first-draft" of the next-generation recorders we requested from Funai in 2011.
Vastly different technology than Funai's prev. 9 gens of std-def (SD) DVDRs.



Back of 867/868 showing WiFi Adapter & ethernet LAN connector only they have. Other items same incl. blue USB 3.0 port.


These units cannot independently tune scrambled or encrypted cable/sat signals. The best they can do in those "locked-down" systems is display and record one channel at a time from the cable/sat company's decoder box via YWR RCA to one of the Mag's line inputs (L1 or L2). Boxes with coax output can also send channels, one at a time, to the Mag that way, but then make sure the Mag has Antenna Out set to Old (On) so it doesn't block the coax signal to the TV.

Mag info page
VIEW Manual ... DOWNLOAD Manual ... (same for all models, PDF 11.4MB)
865/867/868 @ Walmart $290/299/398
865/867/868 @ Amazon $290/299/400 ("Sold by Amazon" units... they stock in recurring increments)
867 @ ABC Warehouse $349
867 @ Hawthorne $349
Free mobile app for streaming or downloading (867/868 only)... for iOS ... for Android
FW update 100.14 same for all models: "Software corrects two possible symptoms. First during DVD-Video playback, there is possibility audio mute and playback error message may appear. Second no audio output if Optical Digital connection is in used to external sound system."

* * * * * * *
Latest FUD-less info on these first-of-a-kind HD DVRs from Funai, a 56-year-old Japanese electronics company, under the Magnavox brand name (licensed from Philips):

TIP: Explore the MENU button during ops for the wonders it can reveal, such as Edit options in the Title List, playback/search/CC options while playing, etc.

• Several "firsts" for a N.A. HD DVR
-- DVD burner
-- Line inputs
-- Editing
-- HD/SD rec modes
-- USB 3.0

• 3 Models

865 has single digital-only HD tuner, 500GB internal HDD, DVD burner, and no networking. 867/868 have two digital-only HD tuners, 1TB/2TB internal HDD, DVD burner, and wired and wireless networking. Tuners are for OTA antenna or unscrambled digital cable (clear-QAM). Single coax input. NO ANALOG TUNER IN ANY MODEL.

• Std Recording Formats, SD & HD
Video mode, like Pioneer, Panasonic, et al
Video compression = MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264
Audio compression = Dolby Digital, MPEG-2 AAC

• Skip Individual Channels!
Long-desired feature... finally! Channel Settings menu allows you to start an Auto Channel Preset, Add Channels, Skip Channels (INDIVIDUALLY, 8.2, 13.3, etc.), set Antenna Out (passthrough) on or off, and set Attenuator on or off.

• Multiple Drives
DVD burner + Internal HDD (500GB/1TB/2TB) + Up to 8 user-supplied external USB HDDs (EHDD), solid-state drives (SSD), or fast* USB flash/thumb (FT) SSD drives, min. 32GB to max. 6TB each, one at a time. Max. 50TB total storage. USB connector/circuit on units is USB 3.0, so max. speed with USB 3.0 drives and cable but backward-compatible with USB 2.0. Drives are independent, separable storage devices, no "striping" like TiVo, DirecTV, et al. High-speed copy/move titles between drives. EHDD-FT is tied to machine that initializes ("registers") it and not movable to other 86x boxes unless reinitialized, losing Mag's access to titles. You can deregister an EHDD-FT without the drive being attached so a "dead" drive won't tie up one of the 8 registration slots. Make sure to power-off the Mag and the EHDD-FT before disconnecting the EHDD-FT.

*Worried about "slow" FT drives? Best FT drives for DVRs will be larger-capacity USB 3.0 drives, which are *designed* for faster reading/writing than smaller ones. This can prevent the playback-stuttering-while-recording reported on other DVRs. One example: USB 3.0 PNY Turbo 128GB has a write speed of 130MB/s, a little faster than typ HDD write speed of 125MB/s... 32GB and 64GB versions of same model write much slower: 45MB/s and 60MB. Here's an Amazon page with three sizes of flash drives where you can click the box for each size and see the diff. in write speeds... beware of sellers who show only read speed, which is always (much) higher and not nearly as important as write speed for our recorders.
Worried about multiple writes/rewrites? How about "Two freaking petabytes" (2,000 TB) in SSD endurance tests so far. All depends on the type of flash memory inside... and flash technology is still in its infancy!

• Multiple Inputs/Outputs
All 3 units have: Coax in/out, composite YWR RCA in/out back, composite YWR RCA and S-Video in front (under drop-down panel bottom right), HDMI out, digital optical audio out, USB 3.0 (blue, see pics), and external Reset button. 867 and 868 also have: Ethernet LAN connector and wireless LAN adapter. To record from a cable/sat receiver or copy from a cable/sat DVR, connect YWR RCA from cable/sat box to rear (L1) or front (L2) connectors on Mag (or S-Video+WR audio to front, L2), set Mag on L1 or L2 input with Source button on remote or, for timer rec, set the Source for L1 or L2 in the menu's CH column. You might also be able to manually select L1 or L2 input by entering 001 or 002 on the remote?

No sound on Viera TV with HDMI only? "Okay, finally have the answer. We spoke with a different Panasonic support person. We definitely need to run the optical digital cable in addition to the HDMI (even though the cable supports ARC.) We did it and it operates like a charm." Just one of many "no sound" problems with Viera and various gear/sources.

• Coax Passthrough Options
Antenna Out setting to select coax passthrough (Old/On) or no passthrough (Off) when in power-off (Standby) mode. DEFAULT SETTING IS OFF, so you won't see pic on TV through coax with Mag off and won't be able to watch one channel on your TV while recording a different channel with the Mag.

• USB 3.0
USB 3.0 (blue) port/circuit for connecting EHDD-FT drives. 10X faster than USB 2.0: 4.8 Gbps vs 480 Mbps (614MBs vs 60MBs). Compatible with and slightly faster with connected USB 2.0 devices, but max. speed with USB 3.0 devices. Good info and pics here. Some speed comparisons here.

• Simultaneous Record/Tune
867 and 868 only. Tune and/or record two UNSCRAMBLED digital broadcast video streams in dual-tuner units. Record to single drive or to different drives by pressing HDD/Ext.HDD button for manual (press REC) recordings or by selecting the "Rec To" drive in the Schedule Recording menu. On tuning, user solgato62 says: "... if you start recording from one channel, and change channels, the unit automatically switches tuners to deal with your channel change request." OTA/antenna TV channels are all digital and unscrambled, so they're all directly tunable and recordable via coax.

These units cannot independently tune scrambled or encrypted cable/sat signals. The best they can do in those "locked-down" systems is display and record one channel at a time from the cable/sat company's decoder box via YWR RCA to one of the Mag's line inputs (L1 or L2). Boxes with coax output can also send channels, one at a time, to the Mag that way, but then make sure the Mag has Antenna Out set to Old (On) so it doesn't block the coax signal to the TV.

• Simultaneous Record/Dub
All units. Simultaneous recording and dubbing. As the manual says on pg. 30 (emphasis mine):
"When Recording and Dubbing are in progress at the same Time and you press [ (Stop) ], the Dubbing Cancel Confirmation window will appear." Note: As with all previous units, automated (menu-driven) dubbing is a background function so the video/audio doesn't appear on screen. If you press STOP during simultaneous recording/dubbing, a dialog will appear asking if you want to cancel dubbing. To also stop recording, press STOP again.

• Simultaneous Record/Play
All units. Simultaneous playback and recording. Chasing playback during recording. Play a prev. recorded title or DVD while recording.

• 100 Timer Programs
No EPG (Guide). Set dates or recurring days (M-F, Every Sunday, etc.), time from/to, source ("CH" or line input), REC To (HDD/Ext.HDD), folder (if created/desired). For recurring programs (M-F, Every Sun, etc.), arrow down in DATE column for options. Cannot title timers.

• 2000 Titles on HDD/EHDD-FT
Create custom folders for storing titles (genres, episodes of same series, etc.). 99 titles on DVD (per DVD Std).

• Auto-Titling and Folders
Titles added automatically from metadata broadcast with each show. Set Auto Clock via General Settings > Clock > Auto Clock Setting menu, then set timer start times for exact start times of shows. See important tips for getting accurate titles (from older Funai DVR). If you can't find good time signal for Auto Clock or you pad beginning of shows before metadata starts, you could get title of prev. show. One workaround for "padders" or other persistent titling problems: while setting timer recording in Schedule Recording menu, as last step, select Folder Setting option (manual Step 8 pg 31) and select named folder for that show (or create New Folder) so every recording of that show will reside there, regardless of title, listed by date in order you select.

Stevo on Walmart.com has this to say about creating and moving folders:
"What this implies is that you have to learn how to make/ use/ sort folders, which is easy to do, once you figure out how to do it. The manual is not the greatest help in this area. This forces you to try to learn how to deal with folders with only the on-screen help. Have fun. Time does not permit me to train you on how to use folders in the 867. One hint: To sort folders, highlight a folder, hit "OK", a little blue line shows up, move the blue line up or down to where you want the folder to be moved to, and then hit "OK" once again. The folder will move there. (The on-screen help for moving folders is wrong and doesn't make sense.)"

• High-Speed Dubbing
High-speed dub (HSD) to copy or move titles between drives HDD>EHDD-FT>HDD. Create genre or backup HDDs.
Record to and real-time dub (RTD) to/from DVD-R/-RW/+R/+RW. No HSD with DVDs.

• Copying from External Devices
Copy from external devices (DVRs, DVDRs, VCRs, cameras, etc.) to HDD or DVD via YWR RCA or S-Video+WR RCA inputs.

• Editing
Divide/Combine/Delete Chapters/Scenes (HDD/EHDD-FT/DVD), Divide/Combine/Delete/Rename/Protect Titles (HDD/EHDD-FT). Scene Delete has become Chapter Delete and Chapter Combine is new op. SHOCKINGLY (LOL), ABSOLUTELY NO DETAILS IN MANUAL! As usual, users to the rescue.. a few of their comments below:

Chapter Delete – In Title List, arrow to & highlight a Title. Select MENU > Edit > Chapter Delete. (MENU button on remote should also reveal sub-menus.) Then, per Amazon user Bates, "Scene delete Is in Chapter Edit section with chapter divide, setting a chapter mark where you want to begin and another to end scene removal, then while in the chapter on timeline you choose delete and It will verify there with highlight in red, with menu pop up for yes." Note: A glowing review on Walmart.com ended with this complaint about Chapter Delete:
"-Editing programs (deleting commercials etc...) seemed easier on the 535 units. In order to utilize this feature on the 867, you must create a chapter then subsequently delete the chapter." However, he's doing the exact same thing on his 535 with Scene Delete: Mark Scene Start and End, except now it's called Chapter Start and End! He might not realize he's already setting Start/Stop Chapter marks at each 535 Scene Delete but only one survives the cut!

Chapter Combine
– In Title List, arrow to & highlight a Title. Select MENU > Edit > Chapter Combine. (MENU button on remote should also reveal sub-menus.) Then, per Amazon user Charlie, "Select 'chapter combine.' Then press 'pause.' Use the '+' and '-' buttons (labeled 'CH') to move forward/back from one chapter mark to another. Once you settle on the chapter mark you wish to eliminate (thus combining the chapters on either side of that mark), press 'OK.'"

• Internet, Streaming and Downloading
867 and 868 only. Wired LAN and built-in wireless LAN... no separate dingle-dongle-doodad required.

Connection to the Network (from manual, pg 18)
By connecting this unit to the Internet, you can Update the Software via the Internet and access Network services.
Note(s)
• For a stable Connection, Wired Connection is recommended when using the following Features.
(Using following Features with Wireless LAN Connection can be affected by other devices using Radio Frequencies.)
– Video Streaming Services
– Network Update
• After you made a Wired or a Wireless LAN Router Connection, set up necessary Network settings.
(For Network setting of Wired Connection, refer to ‘Network Settings’ on page 43.)
• Please purchase shielded LAN cables at your local store and use them when you connect to network equipment.

Simultaneously stream thru home network to different iOS and Android devices with free mobile app. Watch live TV and play or download recorded titles. For downloading, the app "recommends" HD or SD rec mode as best for mobile devices to start playback faster than the higher-quality modes. If desired for titles recorded with higher rec modes, you can use the Change Rec Mode option in the Edit menu to convert them. To save original, you can HSD (copy) to EHDD-FT, if available, before converting? Conversion will start when the unit is turned off. Without an in-app purchase, you can download up to 3 items at any one time, delete one and download another, etc. With a $2.99 in-app purchase, downloads are unlimited.

Record from AppleTV to Mag. bdfox18doe answered this question as follows:
Originally Posted by pink toaster: I have another question: any way to record streaming shows from an appleTV onto the Magnavox??
Yes, that is VERY easy to do. Get a cheapo HDMI to composite A/V box on ebay, feed that to the L1/L2 inputs of the Magnavox and you're all set to go.

Streaming to Smart TV. bdfox18doe gave this info on streaming to a Samsung Smart TV, with initial denial caused by "wifey in middle of her show" and subsequent allowance after wifey's show ended.

More good networking info. sdkrahn says he can use his smart Blu-ray player in a separate room to play recorded titles and watch live TV from his 867. Also, info on folders (2 posts).

Access files and download faster with BubbleUPnP and VLC for Android. Solgato62 posted the following:
"I just discovered that the combination of BubbleUPnP and VLC for Android was able to see and interact with my MDR868. The download feature of BubbleUPnP does not appear to be restricted in the number of files (other than available space), and is much faster than the download available via the Magnavox HD DVR Mobile app.
The big plus was that I ended up with a nice .m2v file I could edit externally."

Q: Can you get Mag's MAC address for use with a MAC filter on a wireless router?.
A: Yes, at least if you have a Windows 10 PC on the network. First, turn off MAC filtering. Then, from Windows 10 "Network" (perhaps from earlier windows), look at "media devices". Right-click the MDR867H and select "properities". The MAC address is one of the properties displayed. Then add this to your filtering list and turn MAC filtering back on.

• Standby Options
User-selectable Standby modes in General Settings > Others: Normal (fast startup) and Energy Saving (slower startup but less power consumption). This setting interacts with several other settings, e.g., it must, and will automatically, be set for Normal if you turn fun-Link (HDMI CEC) and/or Network settings on. So don't arbitrarily set standby to Energy Saving or other functions may not work!

Bhata says: Things I Like/Dislike (#1) - On/Standby

With my Philips DVDR3575:
Device is in Standby (off).
When Timer Recording begins, device turns "On"
When Timer Recording is completed, prompts with "Switch Power Off?"
If no response, device turns off (Standby).
If I was watching as it was recording, then stepped away when the prompt was displayed, I would return to see that the device turned off. A bit annoying, though I understood why it worked that way.

With my new MDR868:
Device is in Standby (off).
When Timer Recording begins, device stays in Standby.
Device display still shows time.
I can turn device On.
With second tuner, I can change channel
With Timer Recording still recording, I can turn device to Standby if I wanted to.
With the device still On, when the Timer Recording ends, there is no prompt to "Switch Power Off?"
Hurray!
Therefore, if you are finished watching for the night and the Timer Recording is still active, you should turn the device to Standby, else it will stay on overnight.

• HDMI Control
HDMI CEC (fun-Link) for integrated system control (TV/DVR on/off, auto input selection, etc.). How-it-works (any unit).

• Signal Level Indicator
Show signal level. While on live TV, press MENU, then select Antenna Signal Level.

• Signal Attenuator
Setting to reduce signal strength if too strong which, unlike analog, causes digital channels to disappear (fall off the "digital cliff"). For use in "average" antenna reception area, make sure this remains OFF (the default), esp. if your unit receives fewer channels than you expect... according to users, these units have tuners as good as or better than their TVs./

• Closed-Caption Decoder
Built-in digital-CC decoder. See manual pp 27 and 53 for procedures for turning it on and customizing display. Also has a Subtitle Recording option to select whether digital CC get recorded on DVD or not (manual pg 58).

• Pause TV
Button on remote that starts recording a live program in FHD2 rec mode (manual pg 33). No buffer so no Rewind.

• SW Keyboard
For renaming auto-titles, naming/renaming EHDD-FT, network setup, etc. Uses same cell-phone type number keys as older SD HDD recorders but with a "helper menu" on screen showing which keys do which letters and symbols. Can't use USB keyboard.

• Aspect Settings
User-selectable aspect settings for the source (how it gets recorded) in General Settings > Video menu. Settings for HDD/EHDD-FT include default 16:9 Squeeze for both 4:3 and 16:9 sources regardless of TV aspect or HDMI res. setting, and Auto for DVDs (manual pg 51). Not the same as TV's aspect settings.

• Multi-Unit Remote
Remote with 3 codes for controlling 3 separate units, incl. Mag SD HDD/DVD recorders (Code 1, the default). Menu @ General Settings > Others > Remote Control > Code Select. Set machine code(s) then, for each "wrong-code" machine, press and hold OK button and press 1, 2 or 3 for that machine.

• Clear+ Playback
Option to sharpen edges of 1080i/p (only) playback via HDMI @ MENU > Clear+ > Old/Off (manual pg 40).

• Rapid Playback @1.3X with Audio
Press Play while in playback to turn on and off. No slow playback (0.8X) with audio. No-audio options include step-by-step (frame-by-frame) fwd/rev with Skip button or slow playback fwd/rev, both after pressing Pause (manual pg 39).

• User-Selectable HD & SD Rec Modes
Includes HD and SD rec modes specifically suited to tablets and smartphones.

HD/SD modes for HDD/EHDD-FT SD modes for DVD
DR = Direct Recording (as broadcast) 1-hr HQ
FHD1 = Full HD 1080p 2-hr SP
FHD2 = Full HD 720p 4-hr LP
HD 6-hr EP
--Tablet Format 8-hr SLP
--High Definition (720p) 
SD 
--Smartphone Format 
--Standard Definition (480p) 

Click any thumbnail for slideshow with larger pics:
Comparison Table 86x Front Remote Rec Modes Edit Functions
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post #2 of 590 Old 09-19-2015, 09:28 PM
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I wonder how many things in the user manual are wrong or omitted.Funai is famous for mistakes.
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post #3 of 590 Old 09-19-2015, 10:18 PM
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Before I networked everything and added media players when I captured HD videos I would burn the captures to AVCHD DVD disks. The manual claims the recorder can play AVCHD disks so hopefully it also will record in that format for HD.
My disks played beautifully in my first gen Panasonic Blu Ray player in 1080i with 5.1 sound and they would hold about 45 minutes which is what a typical hour show is once all the commercials are edited out.
I have folders full of captures I made before the upgrades and they still work today.
The idea of being able to network the DVR may negate burning hd video to disks though especially being able to add and record to big external drives. It does use tight compression anyways so I bet the biggest drive will hold close to 2000 hours like it claims.
For me it still is useless till they decide to support cable card like on our wish lists from back when but for folks with OTA only and non encrypted cable systems this should be a great option.

Last edited by Dartman; 09-20-2015 at 08:58 AM.
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post #4 of 590 Old 09-20-2015, 04:12 AM
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The manual claims the recorder can play AVCHD disks so hopefully it also will record in that format for HD.

It records in that format, to the hdd BUT no DL recording................Video Recording format
Compression format MPEG 2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 Page 74 in manual.

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post #5 of 590 Old 09-20-2015, 07:35 AM
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Looks like editing is gone?

CC

Who knew "flammable" and "inflammable" mean the same thing???
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post #6 of 590 Old 09-20-2015, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Latest FUD-less info is here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cc_in_oh View Post
Looks like editing is gone?
Nope, still there. See pg 9 in manual for editing options, which include:

Editing

HDD - EXT. HDD - DVD-RW Video - DVD-R Video
■ Deleting a Title
You may Delete a Recorded Title.
■ Rename a Title
You can put your favorite name(s) on Titles.

HDD - EXT. HDD
■ Dividing a Title
You can Divide a Title into 2 or more Titles.
■ Editing a Chapter
You can Divide/Combine/Delete Chapter(s).
■ Combining Program(s)
You can Combine the Programs.
■ Protecting a Program
You can protect a Program.

DVD-RW Video - DVD-R Video
■ Editing a Chapter
You can edit Chapter(s). (5/10/15/30/60 minutes)

These are not mentioned in Ch. 7 (not a surprise for a Funai manual) so I ass-u-me they will be revealed when you select "Edit" on the Title menu.

Last edited by wajo; 12-16-2015 at 06:44 AM. Reason: Referred to wrong pg # in manual.
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post #7 of 590 Old 09-20-2015, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post
Nope, still there. See pg 41 in manual for editing options, which include:

Editing

HDD - EXT. HDD - DVD-RW Video - DVD-R Video
■ Deleting a Title
You may Delete a Recorded Title.
■ Rename a Title
You can put your favorite name(s) on Titles.

HDD - EXT. HDD
■ Dividing a Title
You can Divide a Title into 2 or more Titles.
■ Editing a Chapter
You can Divide/Combine/Delete Chapter(s).
■ Combining Program(s)
You can Combine the Programs.
■ Protecting a Program
You can protect a Program.

DVD-RW Video - DVD-R Video
■ Editing a Chapter
You can edit Chapter(s). (5/10/15/30/60 minutes)
In Chapter 7 Editing I'm only seeing delete single/multiple titles, rename, and protect? Am I looking at the wrong PDF?

CC

Who knew "flammable" and "inflammable" mean the same thing???
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post #8 of 590 Old 09-20-2015, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Latest FUD-less info is here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cc_in_oh View Post
In Chapter 7 Editing I'm only seeing delete single/multiple titles, rename, and protect? Am I looking at the wrong PDF?
See pg 9 for list/description of the "real" editing options... which, not surprisingly, are not mentioned in Chapter 7.

I have to ass-u-me that those editing options will be revealed when you select "Edit" in the Title menu?

Last edited by wajo; 12-16-2015 at 06:44 AM.
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post #9 of 590 Old 09-20-2015, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post
See pg 9 for list/description of the "real" editing options... which, not surprisingly, are not mentioned in Chapter 7.

I have to ass-u-me that those editing options will be revealed when you select "Edit" in the Title menu?
Ah OK - but

■ Editing a Chapter
You can Divide/Combine/Delete Chapter(s).

Is that the same as scene deletion? What does it mean to divide or combine chapters? (Maybe this terminology isn't new to everyone but my latest model is a 515)

CC

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post #10 of 590 Old 09-20-2015, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc_in_oh View Post
Ah OK - but

■ Editing a Chapter
You can Divide/Combine/Delete Chapter(s).

Is that the same as scene deletion? What does it mean to divide or combine chapters? (Maybe this terminology isn't new to everyone but my latest model is a 515)
I'm not sure either, but I'm hoping the manual writer(s) were simply wrong since every title has at least one chapter... the entire title... unless you set the recording for auto-chaptering. If so, that might mean that selecting the "Edit" option on a title will bring up editing options for that "chapter" such as Divide and Delete? In a multi-chaptered title, "Combine" would be an added option? This makes sense since Combining titles ("Programs") is another stated option (pg 9).

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So page 20 pretty much confirms that external drives will be incompatible with Windows. Anyone have a clue how to get an HD recording onto a PC? It looks like the only options are to stream or download to the proprietary app on an Android device?

I'm also not finding any mention of high-speed dubbing...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post
I'm not sure either, but I'm hoping the manual writer(s) were simply wrong since every title has at least one chapter... the entire title... unless you set the recording for auto-chaptering. If so, that might mean that selecting the "Edit" option on a title will bring up editing options for that "chapter" such as Divide and Delete? In a multi-chaptered title, "Combine" would be an added option? This makes sense since Combining titles ("Programs") is another stated option (pg 9).
Oh you mean like combining non-contiguous chapters? Otherwise it would be nothing more than deleting the chapter mark that separates them? "Divide" also suggest to me nothing more than inserting a chapter mark?

Combining programs (edit> I mean Titles) makes sense - wasn't that implemented in the last model?

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I recalled reading that Tablo also used a proprietary HDD format so I checked back on that thread - it sounds like there are now "hacks" to extract recordings to Windows. That gives me some hope that it might be possible with the Mags also. But all in all the user manual has pretty much burst my bubble of enthusiasm for the new release...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc_in_oh View Post
So page 20 pretty much confirms that external drives will be incompatible with Windows. Anyone have a clue how to get an HD recording onto a PC? It looks like the only options are to stream or download to the proprietary app on an Android device?

I'm also not finding any mention of high-speed dubbing...
If your goal is to record and transfer the recordings to a PC, there are other options. It looks to me the purpose of this device is to make optical disks from recorded material.

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Originally Posted by mickinct View Post
The manual claims the recorder can play AVCHD disks so hopefully it also will record in that format for HD.

It records in that format, to the hdd BUT no DL recording................Video Recording format
Compression format MPEG 2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 Page 74 in manual.
AVCHD is a video format for optical disks that is derived from the BDMV BluRay format. It was originally designed for burning HD camcorder footage to DVD-R at a time when BD-R was very expensive. AVCHD uses a simple menu structure and requires H.264 encoding -- since you are burning to DVD media the unit only needs a simple DVD burner the same as the SD predecessors. If the recorder simply captures the MPEG-2 transport stream during a recording, then when it burns a disk it will have to re-encode to H.264 on the fly which means a real-time dubbing, only. This would make the most sense since you record in original quality for direct playback from the HDD and then specify the level of compression you want when it comes time to burn to DVD. I would also expect there to be an option to re-code to SD 480i (MPEG-2) to make standard DVD Video disks.

None of these particulars will be known until the units are in someones' hands.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
If your goal is to record and transfer the recordings to a PC, there are other options. It looks to me the purpose of this device is to make optical disks from recorded material.
Maybe I'm missing something then because it appears to me that it's only serious new capability is time-shifting HD programs, which is only useful to the extent that I can't watch the same content on-demand. Burning SD-only disks is nothing new, and "place-shifting" to a local Android device (but not a TV, PC, streamer, or remote device) is toy-like at best.

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Interesting news. Any info on availability or pricing?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc_in_oh View Post
Maybe I'm missing something then because it appears to me that it's only serious new capability is time-shifting HD programs, which is only useful to the extent that I can't watch the same content on-demand. Burning SD-only disks is nothing new, and "place-shifting" to a local Android device (but not a TV, PC, streamer, or remote device) is toy-like at best.
It looks like you are able to burn AVCHD file discs with this machine.

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Interesting news. Any info on availability or pricing?
http://www.abcwarehouse.com/product_...~prod_id~26091
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Latest FUD-less info is here.

ABC Warehouse has been the highest-price seller of our HDD recorders.

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ABC Warehouse has been the highest-price seller of our HDD recorders.
Yes but they may be priced in the $400 to $600 list priceREDACTED- FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION
2
2015, if possible, to meet milestones in its product manufacturing process that would allow for
distribution as soon as possible.
I. REQUEST FOR EXPEDITED TREATMENT
Funai respectfully requests expedited treatment of this request, including, as may be
necessary, foreshortened public notice periods, to allow for a grant by no later than March 9,
2015, if possible. Expedited treatment is necessary in this case to allow the company enough
lead time to complete its development, manufacturing, and marketing process for its next-
generation HDD/DVD recorders in time for fall and winter 2015 industry marketing events
featuring new electronics, preceding the 2015 winter shopping season. In light of business
decisions to allocate funds, personnel, and development resources that must be made before
product development, Funai may be forced to forego launching a digital-only product in 2015
altogether if it cannot secure a grant of the requested waiver within this timeframe. REDACTED- FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION
3
Funai intends to manufacture an all-digital line of HDD/DVD recorders. Funai currently
anticipates that these next-generation devices will be manufactured under Model Numbers
MDR865H/F7, MDR867H/F7, and MDR868H/F7, or an equivalent model. Funai’s HDD/DVD
recorders are generally used in conjunction with a television set and can record from the
television or other external video source to an internal hard drive or to DVD. The HDD/DVD
recorders also include a built-in digital tuner and electronic programming guide schedule. This
product would incorporate the capability to receive and record over-the-air TV signals using the
Advanced Television System Committee’s (“ATSC”) Digital Television Standard, which
replaced the analog television standard established by the National Television System
Committee (“NTSC”).
From a product development standpoint, a digital-only recorder has several significant
advantages over equipment incorporating both analog and digital tuner equipment. The digital-
only units involve significantly less design complexity thereby avoiding substantial costs
associated with added development resources, additional hardware, software, and associated
intellectual property licensing fees including the cost of software and licensing fees that pertain
to an analog-to-digital conversion process as well as the creation of a programming guide
tailored to the analog signal. Funai’s digital-only units weigh approximately <<
BEGIN
CONFIDENTIAL>>-----<<END CONFIDENTIAL>>
less, thus lowering shipping costs, as
well as providing a lower burden on the environment when considering disposal and recycling
obligations. The tuner components in these devices also cost approximately
<<BEGIN
CONFIDENTIAL>>-- -<<END CONFIDENTIAL>>
less and the devices consume
approximately
<<BEGIN CONFIDENTIAL>>-----<<END CONFIDENTIAL>>
less energy
and therefore are more environmentally friendly and entail lower operating costs for consumers. INCLUSION OF ANALOG TUNERS IN FUNAI’S HDD/DVD RECORDER IS UNNECESSARY AND BURDENSOME AND GRANT OF THE WAIVER
WOULD PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL BENEFITS TO CONSUMERS.
The analog tuner requirement is unnecessary and burdensome as applied to Funai’s next-
generation HDD/DVD recorder. Inclusion of the analog tuner increases the complexity of design
which could delay market entry and the resulting products consume more energy and are heavier
than a digital-only product. Incorporating an analog tuner in an HDD/DVD recorder will increase
product cost due to additionally required encoding hardware, MPEG-encoder intellectual
property licensing, and analog Electronic Program Guide (“EPG”) licensing costs. A grant of the
requested waiver would provide Funai’s customers with a more light-weight, energy-efficient
product and ensure that customers would not be forced to pay for components they do not want
or need. Given the state of the DTV transition,
14
any minor utility that a small subset of
consumers might gain from the inclusion of an analog tuner in one manufacturer’s device that
would come to market in 2015 would be temporary, and more than likely, for a shorter duration
than the useful product life of the recorder.
11
EchoStar MO&
O, 28 FCC Rcd at 14000, ¶ 1.
12
See TiVo MO&
O, 28 FCC Rcd at 12181, ¶ 1;
EchoStar MO&O
, 28 FCC Rcd at 14000, ¶ 1.
13
EchoStar MO&
O, 28 FCC Rcd at 14004, ¶ 7.
14
See Third NPRM
, 29 FCC Rcd at 12557, ¶ 54 (noting that “all full power stations ceased analog broadcasts in
2009 and approximately 56% of LPTV, 80% of TV translator stations and 58% of Class A television stations have
completed their conversion to digital.”).
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Out of curiosity I read through the manual looking for specifics. There is so much information that is not there. Many questions will have to wait until someone buys one of these and digs into it.

While the manual clearly states it is capable of AVCHD playback, I see no indication in any of the recording/dubbing sections that it is capable of authoring and burning an AVCHD disk. The available recording modes for burning to DVD seem to be the same as for the MDR557 SD DVD recorders -- HQ, SP, LP, EP & SLP. From the way it reads, it sounds like it burns content only as standard SD DVD Video (MPEG-2).

Recording to HDD is also confusing. There are 5 recording modes with new names that can be selected and no information as to what they are. Not surprising there would be HDD recording modes since there are analog AV inputs on the back for external source. Not clear if one of these modes spools the as-is transport stream or if they are all re-coding the input -- I would suspect the latter if they can all be used for the analog inputs. Just no indication what it is doing -- codec? bitrates? resolution? There is really no discussion in the manual about recording HD as HD -- one kind of implies it from the names of the HDD recording modes.

I also see there is no continuous recording buffer for rewinding live TV. You can hit the pause button which starts the unit recording from that point. It also says the recording mode for the pause function is fixed at FHD2 -- which we now know is 720p. So if you are watching a 1080 broadcast live and hit pause you are immediately degraded to 720p? -- yuk.

As has been mentioned, there is no discussion of scene-delete editing. Recordings can be auto-chaptered at 5 min (minimum) intervals and there is indication of a chapter delete function but that's it. This is one of those things that will have to wait for user experience.

I see similarity with the funai/Philips HD DVR in that the external HDD's have to be registered (limited to 8) and are formatted to only play on the unit that made them.

It's a shame so little detail information is missing from the manual. After reading it I'm not sure what this unit is all about, but at this point I'm thinking this is not the HD disk burner people have been hoping for.

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Recording
Recording format Video format
Recording discs DVD-Rewritable, DVD-Recordable
Video Recording format
Compression format MPEG 2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264
Audio Recording format
Compression format Dolby Digital, MPEG-2 AAC THE DR recording mode could be DIRECT mode from the tuner in AVC/H.264 encode.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickinct View Post
Recording
Recording format Video format
Recording discs DVD-Rewritable, DVD-Recordable
Video Recording format
Compression format MPEG 2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264
Audio Recording format
Compression format Dolby Digital, MPEG-2 AAC
Yes, I saw that in the specifications. It doesn't tell me anything about on-disk formats. Only that the unit is capable of using MPEG-2 and H.264 codecs. Find me something in the manual that says this unit can author an AVCHD disk.

I suspect it re-codes all input that it puts on the HDD as H.264 and recodes it back to MPEG-2 when it burns to disk as DVD Video. There are a number of digital PC tuners that have an on-the-fly encoding chip that does the same thing and re-code the transport stream to H.264.

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Well I suppose you could insert chapter marks before and after a commercial block, then delete that chapter? On the off chance it still does high speed dubbing maybe that would produce more accurate cuts?

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ABC warehouse will have in stock in about a week. any early takers??

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Quote:
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Well I suppose you could insert chapter marks before and after a commercial block, then delete that chapter? On the off chance it still does high speed dubbing maybe that would produce more accurate cuts?
I saw nothing in the manual about inserting chapter marks. The discussion is very sparse.

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Quote:
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I saw nothing in the manual about inserting chapter marks. The discussion is very sparse.
Yes, I also should have qualified that with "assuming you can still insert chapter marks". But it does say you can "divide" a chapter - wouldn't that be the same thing?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickinct View Post
ABC warehouse will have in stock in about a week. any early takers??


Like Kelson said, there are too many unanswered questions so far. Add that to the general clunkiness of Funai DVD/HDD recorders in general and the absolute garbage of the last gen Funai HD recorders. I'm going to sit this one out for a while. Many things look good on paper but the devil is in the details.


It does look like the someone finally figured to move little used buttons on the remote away from the center control pad and more than two remote codes are long overdue. It would be nice to see some component inputs to make the units a nice combo SD and HD recorder.
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Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post
Like Kelson said, there are too many unanswered questions so far. Add that to the general clunkiness of Funai DVD/HDD recorders in general and the absolute garbage of the last gen Funai HD recorders. I'm going to sit this one out for a while. Many things look good on paper but the devil is in the details.


It does look like the someone finally figured to move little used buttons on the remote away from the center control pad and more than two remote codes are long overdue. It would be nice to see some component inputs to make the units a nice combo SD and HD recorder.
Funai will be offering a 30 day return of these if the buy thinks that these have analog tuner, FUNAI COMMITS TO EDUCATING RETAILERS AND CONSUMERS ON ITS HDD/DVD RECORDER’S FUNCTIONALITY
In the interest of transparency and to avoid consumer confusion, if the waiver is granted,
Funai commits to providing retailer and customer education materials and product guides that
disclose the digital-only functionality, limits and capabilities of its next-generation HDD/DVD
recorder.
19
In addition to labeling on the HDD/DVD recorder boxes with a clear description of
the product as digital-only, Funai proposes to (i) provide retailers with an in-store product REDACTED- FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION
9
information data sheet and consumer education materials describing the HDD/DVD recorder’s
functionality; (ii) clearly disclose in product guides that the device lacks the ability to receive
over-the-air analog signals; and (iii) offer a program allowing free 30-day return or exchange if
the customer purchased the device with the mistaken belief that it receives analog services.http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=60001036261

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