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Old 02-17-2003, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I just recieved the March 2003 Issue of Widescreen Review (Road To Perdition on the cover)which has some in-depth, post-CES articles and updates on High Definition technology.

In this months "Insider Industry View" section (page 68) there is an article called "High-Definition Recording Coming Fast" by Paul Sweeting. It mostly talks about how FCC Chairman Michael Powell is now a proponent of High-Def recording after getting a new Tivo as well some of the Hi-Def recording issues brought forth by the MPAA as well as a brief history on the struggles of video recording with the betamax and such...


The one part of the article that REALLY caught my eye though, was this:



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allowing digital, high-def copies of movies and TV shows to escape onto the Internet is Hollywood's real nighmaire.

At CES, it was clear that the stakes are rapidly getting higher. Hardware makers such as Samsung announced(and others hinted) that they will have high-denition Blu-ray DVD recorders on the market in the U. S. *by the end of the year.*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




This is the first time I have heard news of a US launch of Blu-ray and, to be honest, a 2003 US launch of BR is faster than I would have first thought...
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Old 02-17-2003, 03:35 PM
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Believe it when you can buy it for a responsible price. This is good marketing trying to get people to not go to DVHS.

Dave
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Old 02-17-2003, 05:22 PM
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Why would they bother to discourage DVHS. Almost everyone buying DVHS now will almost certainly buy blue ray in the future if they actually release the darn thing.

- Tom

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Old 02-17-2003, 05:57 PM
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No tom, he's talking about those people who would have to be draged kicking and screaming to use dvhs if they want to record HD.

Even had it worked, and even if I had the money, I would have never bought into D-Theater or tapes in general...

Darius
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Old 02-17-2003, 05:58 PM
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I should explain. My brother is a tape archivist fanatic. The house is *cramed* with bulky tapes. I also have had precious tapes go bad on me. No. Never tape...

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Old 02-17-2003, 06:51 PM
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"No tom, he's talking about those people who would have to be draged kicking and screaming to use dvhs if they want to record HD."

Recently it sounds like many of their owners have to be dragged kicking and screaming to use dvhs. ;)

I am sitting here in my armchair in my family room typing this. On my left is a wall partly covered in old VHS tapes. I don't like them but don't know where to put them and don't have the heart to throw them away. So they sit there and slowly fade and become brittle.

- Tom

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Old 02-17-2003, 07:07 PM
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When something is real, I will buy. But is sure gets old hearing things like the promise will ship, its then a year late, the samsung will ship, and its years late. I will believe HD DVD when I see it. Then will see the price, then will see the media cost, etc. If they are saying they cant find masters good enough to make D-Theater tapes, how are they going to find masters for HD DVD?

Dave
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Old 02-17-2003, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by shah8
I should explain. My brother is a tape archivist fanatic. The house is *cramed* with bulky tapes. I also have had precious tapes go bad on me. No. Never tape...

Darius
He needs a bigger house. :D

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Old 02-18-2003, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by trbarry
[BI am sitting here in my armchair in my family room typing this. On my left is a wall partly covered in old VHS tapes. I don't like them but don't know where to put them and don't have the heart to throw them away. So they sit there and slowly fade and become brittle.

- Tom [/b]
Convert them to DVD! I had a wall full of tapes myself (probably around 500 or so) I finally said screw it, bought a standalone recorder and started converting. What I didn't want to keep I tossed. I did a whole LOT of tossing. There were a lot of things I had on tape that I realized I would NEVER want to watch again. The space I saved was AMAZING.

One thing I found was how bad tapes looks. I hadn't really watched to many tapes outside of anime for the past year or 2. When I went back through things I found it looked horrible. An old store bought copy of Indiana Jones: The Last Crusade appeared very washed out. I didn't even bother trying to save it. I just junked it because I could never bring myself to watch it again.

Luckilly the conversion process took a few weeks because I had full garbage cans for the whole month I think. I'm very glad I did it though. I saved so much space and now have tons of room for DVD.

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Old 02-18-2003, 10:41 AM
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Which recorder did you use? I tried Mydvd with the ATI 8500DV and just couldnt get it to work well. The recorder seems like the best way to go.
My wants are DVD -/+ R/RW, firewire in/out., progressive out., 4X speeds.

Does your recorder go straight from tape to DVD, or does it have a hard disc in the recorder to hold data before doing MPeg conversion?

Dave
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Old 02-26-2003, 08:29 PM
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The March/April 2003 issue of The Perfect Vision has some info on both the Blu-Ray and the Toshiba-NEC blue laser formats. The article states that the Blu-Ray recorder will play discs recorded on the Toshiba-NEC, and the Toshiba-NEC recorder will play discs recorded on the Blu-Ray (I think I'm reading this right; a J6P here). This is great news for the consumer. A quote from Gary Merson, " Two for Blue", page 24: " Expect to see both formats introduced in Japan around mid-2003, with a possible U.S. introduction by year's end. The only compromise, according to an industry source, would be "dual blue-laser-format disc-playback," allowing the viewing of discs recorded on either format, but only single-format "record" capability." I have a tech question. The article states that MPEG-2 will be used by both blue-laser formats. Does this mean that FireWire/5C will be the interface that's used??? I'm hoping that I can record OTA HD using the IEEE1394/5C interface on my Hitachi 57XWX20B and the set's built-in OTA HD tuner. My Mits 2000U is working great, but tape su*ks!!! Dick
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Old 02-26-2003, 10:35 PM
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So far all the Blue-ray prototypes showed in Japan have firewire in/out and HD component out.

Japan is ramping up HDTV broadcasts at full speed. In addtion to the existing 7 HD satellite channels (received by 3mio households now), there will be 16 new digital HDTV terrestrial channels starting 12/2003.

We can expect a bunch of new BLUE-RAY & DVHS recording decks at that time, as the demand picks-up.
Rob
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Old 02-27-2003, 06:01 AM
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Hey, is Toshiba showing any interest in making blu-ray DRIVES? 'Cause I can tell you, the nerds who need that will outbuy any batch of cranky videophiles....

Darius
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Old 02-27-2003, 06:51 AM
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I know that Warner's HD/DVD-9 HD prerecorded format won't use MPEG-2 (this is stated in the article), so FireWire/5C won't be the interface that's used on these players, right??? Also, the current DVD recorders play DVDs. Will the Blu-Ray and Toshiba-NEC HD-DVD recorders record and play HD-DVDs??? Will there be prerecorded Blu-Ray and Toshiba-NEC HD-DVDs, or will they be just recording formats??? Dick
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Old 02-27-2003, 06:59 AM
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Picture linked from http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...0109/ces03.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...9/ces04_02.jpg

There are three future HD optical disc technology. It is HD-DVD9, AOD, and Blu-ray.

HD-DVD9 is developed by DVD Forum(mainly Toshiba).
It uses red-laser and MPEG4 AVC for 1080p video and AC3 audio.
It has the same physical structure as current DVD, but uses advanced MPEG4 AVC codec for HD. HD-DVD9 is not for user recording application but for pre-master.

AOD is rewritable format.
Read this ----> http://www.dvdforum.org/press-press.htm

And for Blu-ray Disc info, go http://www.blu-raydisc.info
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Old 02-27-2003, 11:02 AM
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"""so FireWire/5C won't be the interface that's used on these players, right??? """

I don't think that firewire 5c is dependent on meg2 being used. tho that is a guess; so maybe they could use it if they wanted to.

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Old 02-27-2003, 12:00 PM
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Seems people never seem to get tired of the same old arguements regarding tape: ('brittle", "image degardation", etc.)

If tape is so bad it would not continue to be that standard storage medium for all professional purposes. TV, music, radio, film, etc...none are using discs. So far, I've seen tapes last longer than many DVDs. And hundreds of plays later, a D-Theatre tape still looks great.

As for any HD-DVD, whether it's DVD-9 or Blu-Ray, if the end results aren't better than D-Theatre, I'm not buying.
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Old 02-27-2003, 12:23 PM
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I'd be surprised if we see Blu-Ray here in under 1 1/2 to 2 years. I had originally said over a year ago to figure 3-5 years from what was being written, that still looks about right.
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Old 02-27-2003, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
I don't think that firewire 5c is dependent on meg2 being used. tho that is a guess; so maybe they could use it if they wanted to.
I'm pretty sure it is. I remember reading that Firewire does not have the bandwidth to transfer most HD resolutions/frame rates (i.e. 30 fps interlaced 1080). An HD frame buffer is simply too much data to push even for firewire. So current firewire input/outputs are made to accept HD compressed with mpeg2 and probably nothing else.

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Old 02-27-2003, 05:17 PM
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But it could be MPEG4 or some other even more compessed format. It's not just MPEG2 or uncompressed. Firewire is just a digital pipe, and obviously it can push around something besides MPEG2, as long as it has the bandwidth.

But yeh, in terms of compabitility with any existing stuff, that will be a problem, and a problem in general if they want to use anything else, unless they are going to convert it on the fly as it goes out the door.

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Old 02-28-2003, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ManiG
I'm pretty sure it is. I remember reading that Firewire does not have the bandwidth to transfer most HD resolutions/frame rates
I don't know what that source was but firewire is 100-400 M bits per second.

ATSC broadcasts are at, what 19 Mbps?, so Firewire is plenty for HD.

John.

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Old 03-01-2003, 12:58 AM
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Actually, Firewire has to use MPEG-2 as an output. Why? Because it sends a compressed signal to a display that can decode it. That display is going to be an HDTV and that TV will only be able to decode MPEG-2.

There is no way around this short of obsoleting all the Firewire in TVs from using their Firewire inputs.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 03-01-2003, 01:13 AM
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I think dean meant that firewire can transport different kinds of data, like dv for instance. but i see your point

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Old 03-01-2003, 06:23 AM
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I think the great news is that the Blu-ray and Toshiba-NEC HD-DVD recorders will have dual format playback capability, unlike the Beta vs VHS war. If only one format survives in the marketplace, you won't have to re-record your disc archive library if you had the non-surviving format. It also makes it possible to swap discs with others who have the different format. Dick
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Old 03-01-2003, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DICK CONWAY
The March/April 2003 issue of The Perfect Vision has some info on both the Blu-Ray and the Toshiba-NEC blue laser formats. The article states that the Blu-Ray recorder will play discs recorded on the Toshiba-NEC, and the Toshiba-NEC recorder will play discs recorded on the Blu-Ray (I think I'm reading this right; a J6P here). This is great news for the consumer. A quote from Gary Merson, " Two for Blue", page 24: " Expect to see both formats introduced in Japan around mid-2003, with a possible U.S. introduction by year's end. The only compromise, according to an industry source, would be "dual blue-laser-format disc-playback," allowing the viewing of discs recorded on either format, but only single-format "record" capability." I have a tech question. The article states that MPEG-2 will be used by both blue-laser formats. Does this mean that FireWire/5C will be the interface that's used??? I'm hoping that I can record OTA HD using the IEEE1394/5C interface on my Hitachi 57XWX20B and the set's built-in OTA HD tuner. My Mits 2000U is working great, but tape su*ks!!! Dick
Hay Dick!
You are eating crow again. What happen to the DVI requirment. Blu-ray MPEG2 can all be handled by Firewire. Looks like my Promise Module is a shure winner.:) By the end of the year, I have Dish 211, AV-Disk, and Bu-ray HD-DVD all talking to each other on my Promise Modules's Firewire network.

Bruce.in.Triangle NC
Firewire is alive and kicking!
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Old 03-02-2003, 06:41 AM
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The real question is whether or not HD DVD (Blu-ray or another format) will have component or RGB out and not just DVI or firewire. If not, what do us guys with front projectors do? I should think that when the DVDs come out, they will have confidence in their copy protection as they do with current DVDs and it won;t be a problem.

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Old 03-02-2003, 10:57 AM
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Don't bet on it Mike. This DVI/HDCP thing is picking up steam like crazy. I see nothing to indicate that the Hollywood paranoia is being quelled. The only hope is a D-Theater equivilent for HD DVD, but I wouldn't bet on it. It seems like Hollywood is more comfortable with secure connections.
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Old 03-02-2003, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Ross
Don't bet on it Mike. This DVI/HDCP thing is picking up steam like crazy. I see nothing to indicate that the Hollywood paranoia is being quelled. The only hope is a D-Theater equivilent for HD DVD, but I wouldn't bet on it. It seems like Hollywood is more comfortable with secure connections.
I just don't see how DVI/HDCP would be the case for HD DVD. They are releasing DVDs at the rate of 100s per month without it and remember that when DVD was first launched, the same paranoia existed. There is no practical way for the studios to sell a new format if they are going to make everyone replace their display, including those who have just bought into HD without DVI inputs. They will have to be made confident at the source (the CP on the disk itself similar to how DVD works) rather than the pathway.

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Old 03-02-2003, 08:10 PM
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Bruce: The PM is a sure LOSER for the playback of HD-DVDs (MPEG-2 won't be used). Here's some quotes from Sigma Designs website on DVI/HDMI technology and their EM8500 DVD decoder: " DVD players and set-top boxes with DVI outputs are becoming available. It is expected to be a STANDARD FEATURE for digital televisions, consumer displays, DVD PLAYERS, set-top boxes and MANY OTHER CONSUMER PRODUCTS in 2003 [my caps]. Products using HDMI are expected late 2003. For highest picture quality, the EM8500 supports 480p, 576p and 720p, although it is limited to 480p for copy-protected DVDs, UNLESS DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP IS USED [my caps]. Our third-generation advanced scaling engine is capable of high-quality scaling of content to resolutions of 1920x1080i or 1280x720p. However, the resolution is limited to 720x480i, 720x480p, or 720x576i for copy-protected DVDs, UNLESS DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP IS USED [my caps]." Even your beloved Mits will have a HDMI/HDCP interface by XMAS 2004, Bruce (the POD cable proposal). Surly your not expecting the HD-DVD players to have a non-CP component (analog) 1080i/720p output for your Mits to use, are you??? Why do you and Kipp keep posting that a HDMI-DVI/HDCP interface isn't needed??? In other words; why do you want your fellow members today, joining the early adaptors (who made the HDTV that we have today possible; thanks guys and gals) by having only component and/or FireWire/5C interfaces on their HD displays??? There's no way in HECK that HDMI-DVI/HDCP is going to be stopped. For as Sigma Designs states: unless you have a DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP interface on your HD display, you're going to be limited to 480p from a HD-DVD. Believe it, and start saving for that XMAS 2004 Mits, Bruce. Dick
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Old 03-02-2003, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DICK CONWAY
Bruce: The PM is a sure LOSER for the playback of HD-DVDs (MPEG-2 won't be used). Here's some quotes from Sigma Designs website on DVI/HDMI technology and their EM8500 DVD decoder: " DVD players and set-top boxes with DVI outputs are becoming available. It is expected to be a STANDARD FEATURE for digital televisions, consumer displays, DVD PLAYERS, set-top boxes and MANY OTHER CONSUMER PRODUCTS in 2003 [my caps]. Products using HDMI are expected late 2003. For highest picture quality, the EM8500 supports 480p, 576p and 720p, although it is limited to 480p for copy-protected DVDs, UNLESS DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP IS USED [my caps]. Our third-generation advanced scaling engine is capable of high-quality scaling of content to resolutions of 1920x1080i or 1280x720p. However, the resolution is limited to 720x480i, 720x480p, or 720x576i for copy-protected DVDs, UNLESS DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP IS USED [my caps]." Even your beloved Mits will have a HDMI/HDCP interface by XMAS 2004, Bruce (the POD cable proposal). Surly your not expecting the HD-DVD players to have a non-CP component (analog) 1080i/720p output for your Mits to use, are you??? Why do you and Kipp keep posting that a HDMI-DVI/HDCP interface isn't needed??? In other words; why do you want your fellow members today, joining the early adaptors (who made the HDTV that we have today possible; thanks guys and gals) by having only component and/or FireWire/5C interfaces on their HD displays??? There's no way in HECK that HDMI-DVI/HDCP is going to be stopped. For as Sigma Designs states: unless you have a DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP interface on your HD display, you're going to be limited to 480p from a HD-DVD. Believe it, and start saving for that XMAS 2004 Mits, Bruce. Dick
All speculation Dick!:p

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