New Magnavox HD DVRs 4th Qtr 2016: MDR877H, TB560HP, TB560HS - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #1 of 86 Old 01-10-2016, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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New Magnavox HD DVRs MDR877H, TB560HP, TB560HS

Funai, a 56-year-old Japanese electronics company, plans to release 3 new HD DVRs in the 4th Qtr 2016 under the Magnavox brand name (licensed from Philips). All 3 will have multiple HD tuners and Guide. These new Mags will be the "2nd-draft" of the next-generation recorders we requested from Funai in 2011. The 1st-draft are the currently selling MDR865, 867 and 868:

These new Mags will be:
  • MDR877H/F7, with 2 HD tuners, 1TB HDD and DVD burner. An upgrade to the currently selling dual-tuner HD DVR MDR867H which has two digital-only OTA/cable tuners.
  • TB560HP/F7, with 2 HD tuners and 1TB HDD.
  • TB560HS/F7, with 6 HD tuners and 2TB HDD.

Recording capacity can be expanded with external HDD-Flash/Thumb (EHDD-FT) drives. They will also have AV inputs, a no-fee EPG, WiFi, pause/rewind live TV (buffer), Home Network Media Server, DLNA Sync (watch room-to-room), DVR Link (recordings from all DVRs available via single menu), and more.

Features of TB560 models:


Articles with very prelim. info:

I have to commend Funai for their early marketing/advertising of these new products... VERY unlike them! We had virtually NO advance notice for any of the previous 9 generations of SD recorders, and only 4-weeks advance notice for the "1st-draft" HD units (865/867/868).

Unfortunately, advance notice is a double-edged sword: the earlier the notice the more FUD before anyone gets their hands on an actual unit... this time, with at least 9-months notice, it will be an interesting ride, to say the least.

Obviously, since these are still in development, many things are not known for a fact and, if "known," may change in the next 9 months or more... unless they decide to release them sooner!

Click any thumbnail for slideshow with larger pics (from articles above):
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Features Guide Downloads
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Last edited by wajo; 09-22-2016 at 11:15 AM.
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post #2 of 86 Old 01-10-2016, 11:50 AM
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Glad to see a separate thread started for these particular models rather than trying to roll them into the thread for the previous models.
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post #3 of 86 Old 01-10-2016, 03:47 PM
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Magnavox has a long history in the OTA Digital VCR/DVD recorder business, but, as far as I know, this is their first foray into the full feature HD DVR arena. Release date is set for this fall. The first thing that struct me about these is the fact that it looks like a TB560HP/F7 with a DVR burner is $50 less than a TB560HP/F7. I suspect there is a lot we don't yet know about these things.

CNET posted pictures of the boxes here. I have not seen any first hand information other than that.

Here is some of the interesting stuff from the boxes...

- Pause/rewind live TV
- No subscription EPG
- 802.11n
- Tuners (2 or 6)
- Line in for camcorders (or Rokus?)
- External storage
- IOS/Android live and 'on the go' support (download recordings?)
- DVD-r/rw support (MDR877H/F7)
- DLNA Sync (start watching in one room, resume in another)
- DVR Link (recordings from all DVRs are available, via a single menu, on all DVRs)
- Home Network Server

The Rovi powered guide looks very nice -- it's a grid with images and details. There seems to be a search function whereby Rovi recommends and aggregates programming.

The interesting thing is that this DVR does not seem to target any existing DVRs directly with the possible exception of dissatisfied Tablo users or people who might otherwise buy a Tablo.

Also interesting, with DLNA, a six tuner model, and no diskless 'Mini', Magnavox seems to be inviting streamers to leverage their DVR -- and giving them six months to bring a product to market. Is Roku Media Player a potential client for the Magnavox DVR? Kodi is, so Fire TV, Nexus, and Raspberry PI are too, I guess.

This thing does not include streaming apps. That disqualifies it for one box people unless that one box is a DLNA capable streamer (or TV).

Looks like guide is Rovi only, so not a good fit for those without broadband.

Then there's price. I'm having trouble with the announced prices and feature sets, but, for discussion purposes, let's assume the prices are correct and these things are not compatible with any other devices. Let's see how much this will cost compared to the alternatives for 3/4/5 years...

One room 1T at least two tuners:
- TiVo 1t Bolt @$400 plus $150/yr for years 2-5: $700/$850/$1000
- DVR+ plus @$250 plus a 1t disk @$60: $310/$310/$310
- Tablo two tuner DVR @$220 plus a 1t disk @$60 plus Lifetime @$150 plus Roku 1 @$50: $480/$480/$480
- TB560HP/F7 @$450: $450/$450/$450

Two rooms at least 1T at least two tuners:
- TiVo 1t Bolt @$400 plus $150/yr for years 2-5 plus one Mini @$150: $850/$1000/$1150
- Two DVR+s @$500 plus two 1t disks @$120: $620/$620/$620
- Tablo two tuner DVR @$220 plus a 1t disk @$60 plus Lifetime @$150 plus two Roku 1s @$100: $530/$530/$530
- Two TB560HP/F7s @$900: $900/$900/$900

Three rooms at least 1T at least four tuners:
- TiVo 1t Bolt @$400 plus $150/yr for years 2-5 plus two Minis @$300: $1000/$1150/$1300
- Three DVR+s @$750 plus three 1t disks @$180: $930/$930/$930
- Tablo four tuner DVR @$300 plus a 1t disk @$60 plus Lifetime @$150 plus three Roku 1s @$150: $660/$660/$660
- Three TB560HP/F7s @$1350: $1350/$1350/$1350

Four rooms at least 1T at least four tuners:
- TiVo 1t Bolt @$400 plus $150/yr for years 2-5 plus three Minis @$450: $1150/$1300/$1450
- Four DVR+s @$1000 plus four 1t disks @$240: $1240/$1240/$1240
- Tablo four tuner DVR @$300 plus a 1t disk @$60 plus Lifetime @$150 plus four Roku 1s @$200: $710/$710/$710
- Four TB560HP/F7s @$1800: $1800/$1800/$1800

This isn't an apples to apples comparison. By the time you get to four rooms, the DVR+ and TB560HP/F7 setups are sporting eight tuners and 4t of disk space while the TiVo and Tablo setups are four tuners and 1t of storage. Maybe you need to add streamers to support popular streaming services. Regardless, this is a basic setup for an OTA first cord cutter. Magnavox is not a price leader in most configurations.

Unless the DVR recorder is a TB560HP/F7 with a DVR burner (which makes no sense) or these Magnavox DVRs work with inexpensive streamers, I am not sure who would choose one.

On the other hand, if this thing works with a Fire TV stick running Kodi, things look a LOT more interesting...

TB560HS/F7 @$500 plus three FTV Sticks @$150 gives you streaming in four rooms for $650/$650/$650 which is truly a bargain.
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post #4 of 86 Old 01-10-2016, 04:19 PM
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I plan on buying a TB560HS/F7 if it is not castrated in functionality by the time it hits the streets.
I can sell my useless Tablo 4 tuner box and SimpleTV 2 to help cover the costs. Tablo-what a joke. Never worked from day 1....
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post #5 of 86 Old 01-10-2016, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
This isn't an apples to apples comparison.
Sure isn't.
You're ignoring feature sets and only looking at hardware costs. If you want to do that then throw in a half-dozen iViews for $35 a piece.

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post #6 of 86 Old 01-10-2016, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Sure isn't.
You're ignoring feature sets and only looking at hardware costs. If you want to do that then throw in a half-dozen iViews for $35 a piece.
Stop it, please. Feel free to tell the world how it isn't a TiVo. OnePass, Paradigms, blah, blah, blah -- we get it.

I'm working on a features table (which will still not include an iView). For now, I just scraped features off the box and costed out some scenarios.

Feel free to list or PM any TiVo features you want to be included in the chart.
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post #7 of 86 Old 01-11-2016, 08:04 AM
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According to the CNET aticle, "the broadcast TV networks [...] can flag programs to be un-copyable, so any such content would be unable to be transferred to mobile device or disc." If that flag is commonly used, it would essentially kill any benefit from being able to watch from a tablet.
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post #8 of 86 Old 01-11-2016, 01:07 PM
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Anyone know if the "line in for camcorders" on the box means it could also take a cable box signal? The article was a little confusing (admittedly, I only just skimmed it during a quick break), but it seemed to imply it was an OTA only solution. Trying to figure out if it's worth waiting for, vs the existing option(s) like 867 and 868. I would definitely want to be able to input from cable box or other video sources, not just rely on antenna input....
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post #9 of 86 Old 01-11-2016, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post
Anyone know if the "line in for camcorders" on the box means it could also take a cable box signal? The article was a little confusing (admittedly, I only just skimmed it during a quick break), but it seemed to imply it was an OTA only solution. Trying to figure out if it's worth waiting for, vs the existing option(s) like 867 and 868. I would definitely want to be able to input from cable box or other video sources, not just rely on antenna input....
I think the 877 is an upgrade to the 867, which has the line inputs for whatever source you want. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn later that the 877 is for both OTA and cable, like the 867 is (so using the same tuner?)..

It might be worth waiting for these new models if you're into the DLNA, streaming, whole-house features they'll be bringing to the table, esp. if (as the Zatz article says) you'd like to stream to a Roku in other rooms rather than another full-blown 2nd or 3rd multi-tuner unit. I'd envision one 6-tuner box at the entertainment center recording all shows, then streaming to other DLNA-certified clients in other rooms, which could be TVs, tablets, smartphones, etc.?

Last edited by wajo; 01-11-2016 at 01:33 PM.
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post #10 of 86 Old 01-11-2016, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post
I think the 877 is an upgrade to the 867, which has the line inputs for whatever source you want. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn later that the 877 is for both OTA and cable, like the 867 is (so using the same tuner?)..

It might be worth waiting for these new models if you're into the DLNA, streaming, whole-house features they'll be bringing to the table, esp. if (as the Zatz article says) you'd like to stream to a Roku in other rooms rather than another full-blown 2nd or 3rd multi-tuner unit. I'd envision one 6-tuner box at the entertainment center recording all shows, then streaming to other DLNA-certified clients in other rooms, which could be TVs, tablets, smartphones, etc.?
Talk about putting all your eggs into one basket! I'd be more interested in portability (ability to use or move recordings on another machine, if stored on external drive) and having a faster back up to dvd. Currently nearly every device I have has some streaming options: BluRay player, roku, Apple tv, fire tv, tablets, etc so "whole house" access isn't really that much of an issue -- it's not that big a 'house'!

but not being able to salvage what I've recorded when the machine dies might be. That's still the deal breaker for me with the new 800s, but I'm wobbling on the fence...

Slightly off topic, but I found a new 500 GB drive I had bought several years back to replace one of the internal maggie drives -- I just never got around to it and now I can't remember which recorder could use it. I know the answer is somewhere in the thousands of pages of documentation, but I could use a pointer. Should I be looking at the middle aged machines (500s) to swap vs the oldest 2160s ? I vaguely remember there was a maximum size set in firmware -- it didn't matter what size drive you used, it formatted it for lesser amount-- but I dont remember where the cut off point was for various models (there may be one with 80, a couple of mine had 160, I think one had a 320 drive, some 500 GB, and 1 TB etc. They all look pretty much the same from the outside, so I'd rather not start unplugging all of them to see what's where until I have a plan. Can 2160s take a 500 drive?
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post #11 of 86 Old 01-11-2016, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post
...

Slightly off topic, but I found a new 500 GB drive I had bought several years back to replace one of the internal maggie drives -- I just never got around to it and now I can't remember which recorder could use it. I know the answer is somewhere in the thousands of pages of documentation, but I could use a pointer. Should I be looking at the middle aged machines (500s) to swap vs the oldest 2160s ? I vaguely remember there was a maximum size set in firmware -- it didn't matter what size drive you used, it formatted it for lesser amount-- but I dont remember where the cut off point was for various models (there may be one with 80, a couple of mine had 160, I think one had a 320 drive, some 500 GB, and 1 TB etc. They all look pretty much the same from the outside, so I'd rather not start unplugging all of them to see what's where until I have a plan. Can 2160s take a 500 drive?
Did you forget about page 1... only one page to "search"?

Here's the help file
listed there (8.a).
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post #12 of 86 Old 01-11-2016, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Talk about putting all your eggs into one basket!
Yea, sort of like having a cable/sat DVR... without the Mag's added benefits.
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post #13 of 86 Old 01-11-2016, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post
Anyone know if the "line in for camcorders" on the box means it could also take a cable box signal?
There's no pictures of the back of the DVR unit or a detailed feature list unfortunately, but previous Magnavox boxes have had simple Composite-In video jacks (your standard yellow, red and white video and audio RCA jacks), as well as one S-VIDEO input on the front (but none on the back, sort of oddly.) Previous models of Magnavox recorders also had a Firewire port, but since that was jettisoned in the Gen9 models, it's unknown if they'd be making a comeback in the new generation models. (I don't see what it'd be used for in this day and age, but they did specify "line-in for camcorders" and not just "AV-in"; camcorders are the only consumer devices that really tried to make a run with Firewire, so it's hard to know what that means?)



HD input jacks like Component-In, DVI-in, and HDMI-In are not on the old models, and would be very unlikely to be included on the new models due to the incredible sensitivity of HD recording/bootlegging. And none of the old models support CableCard, nor is CableCard listed as a feature of the Gen10 Magnavoxes. So aside from OTA signal, you would not be able to record any HD video on this recorder from your cable box or any other HD video source. If you use this with cable, it'd be for standard-def TV only.

(The one caveat is that some cable providers apparently feed some unscrambled channels through the coax cable wire, but even if that works - and it didn't for me - you'd likely only get broadcast channels at best?)

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post #14 of 86 Old 01-11-2016, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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...
Composite-In and HDMI-In are not on the old models, and would be very unlikely to be included on the new models due to the incredible sensitivity of HD recording/bootlegging....
Composite-In (YWR RCA) are on the old models. HDMI is not. Maybe you meant Component (RGB), which is not.
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post #15 of 86 Old 01-11-2016, 05:33 PM
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Composite-In (YWR RCA) are on the old models. HDMI is not. Maybe you meant Component (RGB), which is not.
Yerk, I did indeed. Fixed above.

Quote:
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Also interesting, with DLNA, a six tuner model, and no diskless 'Mini', Magnavox seems to be inviting streamers to leverage their DVR -- and giving them six months to bring a product to market. Is Roku Media Player a potential client for the Magnavox DVR? Kodi is, so Fire TV, Nexus, and Raspberry PI are too, I guess.
Oh, interesting! The first thing I thought when I saw the DVR sharing feature was that Magnavox's next model of Streaming Media Box after the TB600MG2F should also have a DVR-catcher app so you could get a $99 accessory box instead of buying two or three $400 DVRs, but maybe you're right that Magnavox is more interested in getting on their competitor's storefronts than its own. (Not that Magnavox is anywhere near competing with Roku for streaming boxes...) No clear evidence either way, but I'd like that to be the case that they'd push their app out to devices they'd otherwise have to try to compete with when these boxes themselves are going after an underserved (albeit small) cord-cutter market that the streaming box manufacturers are ignoring. They can compliment each other instead of competing.

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post #16 of 86 Old 01-11-2016, 11:25 PM
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post #17 of 86 Old 01-12-2016, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post
Did you forget about page 1... only one page to "search"?

Here's the help file
listed there (8.a).
Did you forget about page 1... only one page to "search"?


I did. Sorry! (. Hangs head in shame!) Thanks!!
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post #18 of 86 Old 01-18-2016, 04:08 PM
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Maybe they can add SD high speed dubbing to the DVD burner in the new units. I wouldn't even consider getting a 86x unit because of this idiotic oversight.
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post #19 of 86 Old 02-05-2016, 05:02 PM
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Maybe they can add SD high speed dubbing to the DVD burner in the new units. I wouldn't even consider getting a 86x unit because of this idiotic oversight.
Problem is, the recording on the hard drive is in HD, so the recording has to be downrezzed in order to be then put on a DVD. Until the dubbing is initiated, there IS no SD recording, so you can't high speed dub. It has to be re-encoded for a DVD to be made.

Now, I suppose you could get extra fancy, and simultaneously record in both SD and HD at the same time to the hard drive. but then that'd up the price quite a bit, I'd imagine.
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post #20 of 86 Old 02-05-2016, 05:49 PM
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If they wanted to really rock, they could in theory burn AVCHD to DVD. The high-speed dub time would be limited but re-encoded to a longer play speed might turn out pretty reasonable looking discs.
TV broadcasts can be very compressible if they use an H.264 encoder.

Of course that's me dreaming. There is no way they're going to put ANY of that in these units.
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post #21 of 86 Old 02-06-2016, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by gastrof View Post
Problem is, the recording on the hard drive is in HD, so the recording has to be downrezzed in order to be then put on a DVD. Until the dubbing is initiated, there IS no SD recording, so you can't high speed dub. It has to be re-encoded for a DVD to be made.
Now, I suppose you could get extra fancy, and simultaneously record in both SD and HD at the same time to the hard drive. but then that'd up the price quite a bit, I'd imagine.
Even Panasonic who's made HD DVDRs for years(not usable in the US though) copying HD to a DVD requires the re-encoding and can take some time. Not sure about the Magnavoxes but with the Panasonics you can batch several re-encodes to run over night at the same time and save them to the HDD(similar to your idea of recording both a HD and SD version at the same time but done after the HD recording is over). Once you have your SD version on the HDD you can simply HS copy the titles over to DVD. One things the Panasonic units have that I don't believe the Magnavoxes do is have the ability to burn HD. Either to BD in HS, thus eliminating the need for a re-encode and I also believe they allow you to burn HD to DVD(albeit not too many hours due to space constraints and only playable in a BD player) again something I don't believe the Magnavoxes can do since burning HD to even DVD requires a BD burner. IMO it's really a oversite for a HD recorder with a burner to not record to BD. I mean sure BD burners cost more but even on the retail level only $60 or so more, probably even less on the wholesale level. Adding a HD burner to the Magnavoxes IMO would be so much more versatile, oh well maybe a future model......

Although since DVD/BD burning is almost dead and I'm not even sure Panasonic makes their BD recorders anymore, maybe they figured it just wasn't worth it....
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post #22 of 86 Old 02-16-2016, 07:00 PM
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I hope all of you thinking about these that are planing to use them for OTA realize ATSC3 is around the corner.

.
.
Free, abundant OTA television separates this country from many others. ATSC1 has only been in force since 2009. The wireless industry has enough spectrum. Enough of 'planned obsolesce'.
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post #23 of 86 Old 02-16-2016, 07:22 PM
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I hope all of you thinking about these that are planing to use them for OTA realize ATSC3 is around the corner.
Do any of the new 2016 4k tvs have the new tuners>??

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post #24 of 86 Old 02-16-2016, 09:16 PM
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Fair point, videobruce. In fact, brilliant point. Just bought a 4k TV which of course only has standard ATSC tuner since no successor has been finalized. If I've got to buy a DVR, it'd be nice if it brought the shiny new tuner with it.

Of course Mediasonic will probably make one too for $50.
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post #25 of 86 Old 02-17-2016, 05:04 AM
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As far as I know after spending some time searching and reading the response from a e-mail from the person who hosted a presentation from Oct. 2014 in San Diego on ATSC3, the standards have not been finalized yet.

The closest date I found was 2018, but that probably is just a startup date. When I questioned this individual about the short span of ATSC1, he claimed it's been out for 20 years.
I went to the local reception sub-form and went thru a couple of pages of HD threads looking at the start date. The OLDEST was 2002. Some were as late as 2007. And that was just when the discussion started.

I wonder when he would claim for NTSC? 1939, at the worlds fair?

http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/000...-update/277950

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Free, abundant OTA television separates this country from many others. ATSC1 has only been in force since 2009. The wireless industry has enough spectrum. Enough of 'planned obsolesce'.

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post #26 of 86 Old 02-17-2016, 05:14 AM
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I'm willing to bet this is one reason why the mighty TiVo dropped some of their Roamio models already after less than 18 months.

Maybe there will be another 'converter box coupon' deal.
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Free, abundant OTA television separates this country from many others. ATSC1 has only been in force since 2009. The wireless industry has enough spectrum. Enough of 'planned obsolesce'.

Last edited by videobruce; 02-17-2016 at 05:18 AM.
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post #27 of 86 Old 02-19-2016, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
I hope all of you thinking about these that are planing to use them for OTA realize ATSC3 is around the corner.
Fully realizing that I am exposing my ignorance here, what is "ATSC3"? Since I don't know what it is, will I miss it if I go with one of these new Magnavox DVR's?

Speaking of which, I was seriously considering one of the current models, 868H probably. But then I realized that it does not have an EPG, which I am certain will ease the pain of "cutting the cord" for my wife. She has become very comfortable with the guide on our satellite receiver.

When we talk about a release of 4th quarter for these new models is there any way to predict when that will realistically make them available? October? January? I am actually halfway considering purchasing a current model, using it until the new ones are out, and then replacing it with a new one. I actually have one of the previous models, the 533, but it is not HD and my wife just does not like the picture. And I don't blame her.

Dang I wish the current ones had an EPG.

Chubby, old guy in Omaha, Nebraska

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post #28 of 86 Old 02-19-2016, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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In the past for the 9 gens of SD HDD/DVD recorders and their later Philips/Mag HD DVRs, it seems their favorite time periods to release new products have been Mar/Apr/May and Sep/Oct/Nov.
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post #29 of 86 Old 02-19-2016, 12:01 PM
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matonanjin;
Did you click on the link that was provided in my previous post?

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Free, abundant OTA television separates this country from many others. ATSC1 has only been in force since 2009. The wireless industry has enough spectrum. Enough of 'planned obsolesce'.
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post #30 of 86 Old 02-19-2016, 01:36 PM
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ATSC3 is actually ATSC 3.0. It is an unfinalized proposed standard for replacing over the air TV broadcasts.

Among other features it would add UHD/4k. It is not backwards compatible which means everyone who has a TV and watches via antenna would need a converter/external tuner (again) probably government subsidized. TV stations and networks would need to replace/upgrade most of their hardware.

Assume 2018, unless the companies fight it and 4k has gone the way of 3D by then.
Buy any DVR you like and get 2-3 years of use out of it at least... which is probably the lifespan of most electronics anymore.
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