It's Here - The First HDTV PVR - Zenith HDR230! - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 664 Old 09-14-2003, 10:20 AM
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I read the thread on the hard drive size, everyone says they can get 120mb sized drives to work no problem.

Several have said 160mb.

A few have said 200mb.

One guy said he was going to try 250mb but I have not seen the result post yet.


So, what is the CURRENT confirmed largest size hd known that can be slapped into this thing ( the Zenith 230) ?

I think its a wonderful non supported upgrade btw, will help sell tons of units. I see the new Zenith PVR that has fireware outout, QAM cable support, also has 120mb drive.

Its the LG 3410A, due out next month rumor has it. I started a thread on it , but the link is here for those who have not read about it yet.

IT IS THE MACHINE WE HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR !!!!
LG 3410A PVR w. 120mg hd, firewire input/output and QAM cable support

owner of several Samsung LCD Panels
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post #362 of 664 Old 09-15-2003, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZZtop

So, what is the CURRENT confirmed largest size hd known that can be slapped into this thing ( the Zenith 230) ?
Well, I just received my HDR 230 and immediately installed a 300 GB Maxtor 5400 RPM drive into it. It started out by telling me I had 14 hr. 33 min. of record time when it was empty. I decided to try and max it out and finally did tonight, wound up with approximately 15 hr. 44 min of recorded material when it said the disk was full.

Todd
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post #363 of 664 Old 09-15-2003, 05:31 AM
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I've been tempted to buy this recorder. If ~16 hours is the max I can live with that IF you could record and WATCH a pre-recorded show at the same time. Since just about everything I watch will be in HiDef this season I need something better than my Hipix HTPC.

I've looked at other PC cards but i really haven't seen one any better than the HiPix. I want to be able to watch a RECORDED show and RECORD a show at the same time. Is that too much to ask for?

I've gotten so used to watching TV without commercials and watching the shows when I want to it becomes very difficult in HDTV. With the short record time of 8 - 16 hours it becomes more difficult to watch them when I want to. Especially the shows I like are different than the ones my Wife likes.

Since Tivo won't be ready until 1-2 quarter I will probably still buy this. Does anyone have any hope for better scheduling software for this recorder? ala "Season Passes?"

--Tomr
You've got to ask yourself - "Does it pass the common sense test?"
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post #364 of 664 Old 09-15-2003, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ToddMK
Well, I just received my HDR 230 and immediately installed a 300 GB Maxtor 5400 RPM drive into it. It started out by telling me I had 14 hr. 33 min. of record time when it was empty. I decided to try and max it out and finally did tonight, wound up with approximately 15 hr. 44 min of recorded material when it said the disk was full.

Todd
So the bottom line is the max is 160 mb hard drive in the 230 then?

owner of several Samsung LCD Panels
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post #365 of 664 Old 09-15-2003, 09:48 AM
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WOW. Well after waiting and waiting and waiting for the TIVO, and with fall season almost here, and after not watching any of CSI Miami & other 10 pm shows last season, due to the simple fact that we could never sit up awake till 11:00, we took the plunge, and again WOW, the Zenith as long as you approach it as a digital HD VCR without tape, and NOT a TIVO, has to rate as awesome. PQ to us is indistinguishable from source. But GEEZ, can't they improve the firmware just a bit ?? Seems as though it would be so easy to have a few second reversal after FF so when skipping thru commercials you don't "overshoot" ??? Sorry studios, IMHO the Betamax case already resolved that issue. Other than that, for anyone sitting on the fence waiting for TIVO HD, and you can afford it, this is one great VCR !!!!
-rick
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post #366 of 664 Old 09-15-2003, 12:31 PM
 
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The times posted for a maximum 15.75 hours (even with a 300GB) indicates its limited to the 137GB limit, since 80GB gives about 9 hours. So anything much larger than 120GB or 160GB is a waste.
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post #367 of 664 Old 09-15-2003, 12:36 PM
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But that was already posted some time back, no ??
That is why I opted for the 120 gB HD to replace the beast within !!!
--rick
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post #368 of 664 Old 09-18-2003, 12:29 PM
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Pardon me if this question had been raised before, didn't have time to go through 19 pages of this thread.

For recording OTA HD only, this Zenith unit is about $900 or so. Isn't that roughly the same as a JVC D-vhs deck plus a firewire Samsung T-165? If true, isn't the JVC-Samsung combination a better deal? i.e. There are no time limits, just keep buying more tapes.

Also, if I were to record HD, I'd probably go all the way to include recording satellite HD, which means 169time with the AVX-1. That's close to $2000 though, but would be the ultimate set-up.
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post #369 of 664 Old 09-18-2003, 12:58 PM
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TomR- I have the Hipix too and I just bought the Zenith. Now I can watch something on the Zenith and still record using the Hipix and vice-versa. Anything that I want to archive, I use the Hipix, since adding drives to my computer is a snap. Also, on a goodnight I can record two HiDef shows at once :)

HDTV888- I got the Zenith for $812 incl shipping. I figure I'll save the rest of my pennies for the new HD Directivo. I personally, can't stand tapes, plus I record at least 3 hrs a night, so a tape won't make it. Just my two cents..
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post #370 of 664 Old 09-18-2003, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HDTV888
Pardon me if this question had been raised before, didn't have time to go through 19 pages of this thread.

For recording OTA HD only, this Zenith unit is about $900 or so. Isn't that roughly the same as a JVC D-vhs deck plus a firewire Samsung T-165? If true, isn't the JVC-Samsung combination a better deal? i.e. There are no time limits, just keep buying more tapes.
With the Zenith, you just keep buying small hard drives instead of the JVC tapes. I certainly prefer it that way.
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post #371 of 664 Old 09-19-2003, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aviators99
With the Zenith, you just keep buying small hard drives instead of the JVC tapes. I certainly prefer it that way.
I'm sorry to prolong this argument. My thoughts are that the Zenith concept is flawed. Unless you can archive recordings easily to a CD, or tapes, then as soon as the 8hrs/15hrs/whatever is used up, you're stuck. Take out the tool box and change hard drive? When you want to see the first recordings, you change hard drives back again? The easiest way to store HD recording is the D-vhs deck. Then why not just simply record it to D-vhs from the start and skip all this?
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post #372 of 664 Old 09-19-2003, 10:56 AM
 
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Aviators99: How bout some pics of your multiple hard drive / Trios setup? Is it still working strong?
Does the Trios switch also switch the power between the HDs, or are all the HDs powered up all the time?
If they are all powered up at the same time, then how are you powering them all? Is the single HD power from the Zenith stout enough to power three drives using splitters?

Thanks!
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post #373 of 664 Old 09-19-2003, 12:45 PM
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> My thoughts are that the Zenith concept is flawed. Unless you can archive recordings easily to a CD, or tapes, then as soon as the 8hrs/15hrs/whatever is used up, you're stuck.

No, it is not flawed...it simply is not what you're looking for. For short term time shifting and skipping commercials, the concept of the Zenith and other PVRs is quite workable -- and is preferable to using D-VHS, since there is no risk of accidentally recording over an un-watched program as with VHS tape.

That this model does not work for you doesn't make it flawed; just not something that you'd want to buy. Different products are appropriate for different people based on how we use them.

Given the choice between spending the money on this Zenith versus the Samsung SIRT-165/D-VHS combo, it was an easy choice for me, because the Zenith does what *I* want it to do better than the 165/D-VHS would. I typically watch programs within a few days of when they're recorded and then erase them --for me, the ability to skip through commercials and to "reschedule" programs for my convenience was my primary concern, and not having the room to save programs for extended periods of time is a nonissue.
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post #374 of 664 Old 09-19-2003, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by merc
Aviators99: How bout some pics of your multiple hard drive / Trios setup? Is it still working strong?
Does the Trios switch also switch the power between the HDs, or are all the HDs powered up all the time?
If they are all powered up at the same time, then how are you powering them all? Is the single HD power from the Zenith stout enough to power three drives using splitters?

Thanks!
It's still very gross-looking, but if people really want to see it, I'll take some pictures over the weekend (I'm in NY at the moment but will be back for football)

Yes, it does switch the power too.
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post #375 of 664 Old 09-19-2003, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HDTV888
I'm sorry to prolong this argument. My thoughts are that the Zenith concept is flawed. Unless you can archive recordings easily to a CD, or tapes, then as soon as the 8hrs/15hrs/whatever is used up, you're stuck. Take out the tool box and change hard drive? When you want to see the first recordings, you change hard drives back again? The easiest way to store HD recording is the D-vhs deck. Then why not just simply record it to D-vhs from the start and skip all this?
This isn't an argument, it's a discussion...and this is a discussion forum...

Just so you understand, I do not have to take out a toolbox to change drives. I bought a $39 IDE switcher that sits outside the HDR230. It's plug and play.
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post #376 of 664 Old 09-19-2003, 02:25 PM
 
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Aviators99: Does the IDE switcher also switch power to the active drive, or are all drives on at the same time even though only one is active?

If it does not switch power between drives, can you power 3 Hard drives with the power output on the Zenith?

Thanks!

EDIT - Nevermind... I just saw that you already answered this question! Thanks.
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post #377 of 664 Old 09-19-2003, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HDTV888
The easiest way to store HD recording is the D-vhs deck. Then why not just simply record it to D-vhs from the start and skip all this?
Cool. So if I record every episode of 'The Tonight Show with Jay Leno' on NBC via OTA on D-VHS I can erase everything except those specific musical acts and/or guest stars I want to archive?

And in the same vein, if I record the Opening Ceremonies of the Summer Olympics (once again NBC OTA) I can later go back and mark / delete the commercials? Of course I'd only want certain (unknown to me at the time, obviously) highlights added to my archive. So I'd be able to record the day's events and later edit them down? And the Closing Ceremonies also? Well, only sans commercials. And I can do all of that with D-VHS? With a single unit?

Of course I can't. Tape is a linear format. Digital recordings can easily be edited with a couple of button presses. Hard drives are cheap and getting cheaper every day. With a simple $39 switch (as referenced above) I can dedicate a single ~16 hour block of HDTV to a single hard drive.

What exactly are you archiving? An OTA network primetime series (CSI in this example) runs for 23 episodes a year. Dump the commercials and opening / closing montages and you're down to ~41 minutes an episode. 23 x 41 = 943 minutes = 15.7 hours. So I can store a year's worth of CSI on a single hard drive. Obviously double that (two years!) for a 30 minutes per week series. Not that I'd probably do such a thing. But you might, hence the example. I doubt you're storing movies since OTA movies are edited for time & content. This discussion forum being a haven for 'The Director's Vision' folks I doubt you'd want that vision corrupted by network censors / bean counters.

So, for me, movies and episodic TV is out. What's left? Sports, maybe. Football seems popular. The sixty minute game stretched out for three hours. Goodbye commercials and the half time chatter. Then again, since you can't get every game of your favorite team in HD (OTA or otherwise) I doubt this is a valid reason. Maybe your team is on in HDTV a half dozen times a year. It'll still fit on one drive once you delete the all too often commercials.

Note the use of "OTA" in the examples above. The Zenith HDR230 is an OTA only recorder. At least until the cable companies fall into line. Therefore I'm taking your comparison of the D-VHS decks -vs- Zenith in an OTA only light. Otherwise it's the old apples -vs- oranges 'discussion'.

I have a Zenith HDR230. When the HD-TiVos become available (and after a few months of shakedown) I'll buy one. But I'll still use my Zenith for those things I want to archive. The Olympics are going on my Zenith. CSI can be captured by my HD-TiVo. And tape will remain a distant, unpleasant memory.
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post #378 of 664 Old 09-19-2003, 09:41 PM
 
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Actually, Knative. Until HD-DVD is a reality, and the DMCA doesn't squash fair use entirely, DVHS is the ONLY way to archive an HDTV show... Of course, you can also as you say archive a full season of CSI on a single removable HD, but IIRC, the most the Zenith will use on its 80GB HD is around 12, and not almost 16 Hours of HD recording, so, you'd need to replace the original drive with a 120/160?Gb HD. Anyway, archiving is removable, and timeshifting is onboard... and thats the way the MPAA wants it to be... otherwise the Zenith would have a firewire connection.
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post #379 of 664 Old 09-19-2003, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by merc
Actually, Knative. Until HD-DVD is a reality, and the DMCA doesn't squash fair use entirely, DVHS is the ONLY way to archive an HDTV show... Of course, you can also as you say archive a full season of CSI on a single removable HD, but IIRC, the most the Zenith will use on its 80GB HD is around 12, and not almost 16 Hours of HD recording, so, you'd need to replace the original drive with a 120/160?Gb HD. Anyway, archiving is removable, and timeshifting is onboard... and thats the way the MPAA wants it to be... otherwise the Zenith would have a firewire connection.
I'm not sure I understand your point. Why do you say you can't archive on a hard drive using the Zenith? 20GB drives are pretty cheap, especially in bulk. And you do know that the new Zenith does have firewire connection, right?
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post #380 of 664 Old 09-19-2003, 10:29 PM
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I just finished my upgrade to a 160G drive. What a snap. The only disappointment is that the shows already set to program need to be re-entered.

One odd thing I haven't seen mentioned is that some one hour shows (like Law and Order) show up as 52 minutes of recording. The whole show seems to be there. Is it really only up only 52 minutes of space?

Also, after a FF through commercials how is everyone getting the graphic to disappear? I hit menu (or exit or something) twice, then it turns into a clock symbol that stays there for a minute or so. I can't seem to get that to disappear before the timeout.

One more thing, I used it in timeshift mode over the weekend for a football game. I guess when I left it I never stopped the timeshift. It deleted the 3-4 shows that were previously stored. That's pretty weak.

This unit might be enough for me to be able to drop my locals on Dish, which I use mainly to drive my Replay. With the West Wing going HD, the only thing from my locals that I would record on the Replay rather than the Zenith would be Seinfeld. I usually keep 6 episodes and watch 1-2 a week, but based on the episode info that the Replay stores. Not having the episode title would be a huge drag.

Tapes really aren't an option for me. They are about as attractive as a 12 inch Laserdisc.

Chris

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post #381 of 664 Old 09-20-2003, 06:59 AM
 
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Quote:
And you do know that the new Zenith does have firewire connection, right?
What is the new Zenith and where can I buy it? I wonder if the commercial edit will work for then archiving through the firewire a movie I might want to save for future viewing?
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post #382 of 664 Old 09-20-2003, 01:06 PM
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merc,

There is a couple of threads on this subject:

See Here!

Also See Here!


I am scheduled to receive the HDR230 on Monday. I hope that I did make the right decision. I don't Archive, the LST-3401A is not a upgrade/replacement for the HDR230- only a few different features, I will be able to use the Ant. loop-thru to connect my HD-STB without splitting the signal, can upgrade the HDD to 120GB if needed and not lose functionality, any thing else I've overlooked?

It seems that you guys are more than satisfied with your HDR-230---Yes?

Dave

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post #383 of 664 Old 09-20-2003, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chriscpm
One odd thing I haven't seen mentioned is that some one hour shows (like Law and Order) show up as 52 minutes of recording. The whole show seems to be there. Is it really only up only 52 minutes of space?
I have seen this as well, I recorded The O.C. and it showed up as 44 minutes. The whole episode was there however.


Quote:
Originally posted by Chriscpm
Also, after a FF through commercials how is everyone getting the graphic to disappear? I hit menu (or exit or something) twice, then it turns into a clock symbol that stays there for a minute or so. I can't seem to get that to disappear before the timeout.
I've found that hitting exit will get rid of any graphic that pops up, may have to hit it twice as I have seen what you're talking about.
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post #384 of 664 Old 09-20-2003, 05:24 PM
 
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I will be able to use the Ant. loop-thru to connect my HD-STB without splitting the signal,
Dave, I could be wrong, and usually am... but I think the passthrough does act as a splitter as you lose about 3db on your signal. The only difference is that the splitter is built into the unit. Still, if you aren't splitting this cable line any other place, and your originating signal is pretty strong, the -3db will have no visible effect.

I have several splits in my HD signal and therefore went with a totally seperate antenna, pre-amp and cable run for my timeshifting section of my HDTV setup.
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post #385 of 664 Old 09-20-2003, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chriscpm

<snip>
One more thing, I used it in timeshift mode over the weekend for a football game. I guess when I left it I never stopped the timeshift. It deleted the 3-4 shows that were previously stored. That's pretty weak.
<snip>
This worries me. Can anyone else reproduce this? I have never seen it delete stuff. Has anyone seen it with an 80GB drive?
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post #386 of 664 Old 09-20-2003, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aviators99
This worries me. Can anyone else reproduce this? I have never seen it delete stuff. Has anyone seen it with an 80GB drive?
On the first HDR230 that I had, I noticed a problem similar to this (see post #255 in this thread). I sent that unit back to J&R, they sent me a replacement. I didn't get as far with that unit, it would "lock up". I sent it to Zenith on 8/19. I am still waiting on it's replacement:mad: !

I am hoping it is worth the wait!

Ken
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post #387 of 664 Old 09-20-2003, 10:04 PM
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Thanks merc, I understand your statement. I do have a strong signal, so I can only hope that I will be good to go.

Dave

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post #388 of 664 Old 09-21-2003, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ToddMK
I've found that hitting exit will get rid of any graphic that pops up, may have to hit it twice as I have seen what you're talking about.
Thanks for the tip. I custom programmed the buttons into my universal remote control. I was using two hits of the MENU button by mistake.

Speaking of the controller, isn't this the most insane controller you've ever seen? I though it was pretty settled that the 5-button target setup had play in the middle, pause on the top and stop on the bottom. Then a separate button for enter when play doesn't do it.

But not this beast. Pause is on the bottom. The top is play/slow. The middle is enter and stop gets moved to the second from the right of the row of 4 buttons. If you are like me and program everything into a universal remote, you are just screwed. Specifically, if you put play in the middle and pause on the top, then the secondary arrows backwards (pause is a down arrow, but gets placed on the top).

Also, the whole remote just seems upside down. Usually the 5-button target setup is close to the top, not the bottom like this one (like a Dishnet controller). Its just goofy. The results are great, but the usability is really poor.

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post #389 of 664 Old 09-23-2003, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeffshome
It only reformats the drive if it is not in the proper format. After installing my 180 gig drive I put the original 80 back in and it still contained my recorded shows.

So what actually is the hard drive format inside? I see above someone opened it up with Linux, was it NTFS or FAT or a linux file type system?

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post #390 of 664 Old 09-23-2003, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aviators99
This worries me. Can anyone else reproduce this? I have never seen it delete stuff. Has anyone seen it with an 80GB drive?
Actually, this happened with the 80 gig drive before I did the upgrade.

Chris

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