LG LST-3410A Review and Discussion - Page 177 - AVS Forum
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post #5281 of 7202 Old 07-09-2008, 12:34 PM
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PQ= Picture Quality?

If it does what I'll need (provide TVG data to LG3410a) It will never be seen...as it's function will be purely TVG data. I was looking at output on an 8" color monitor last PM through a scope, and I thought the same thing. My plan is to boot to the TVGOS mode, and check the scope every couple days, looking for TVG Data. Once it rears it's head here, I'll holler, and then the fun starts in earnest!!!

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post #5282 of 7202 Old 07-09-2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

If it does what I'll need (provide TVG data to LG3410a).

I just thought I'd mention that in case anyone here was looking at it as a possible choice for a tuner for one of their TV's come analog cutoff, or were planning on using it with other recorders besides the LG or Sony's.

It does have a nice guide and manual timer setting, though, so even without the TVGOS thing it has it's merits.

Problem I had with the E85H was, it didn't have a code to change the channels on the box. I'm gonna try my Sony RDR-HX900 next. I also have a Panny EH75, but I don't really plan on using it with that - unless I ever drop my Dish SD pack.

I appreciate all you're doing and I'll be keeping close tabs on your experiments. Even if it does turn out that we don't need these for any of our digital-tunered units, it sure would be nice to keep all of our old analog TVGOS recorders working, also.
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post #5283 of 7202 Old 07-09-2008, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

In Chicagoland, the "Proper" TVG data for boxes will not be transmitted until end of August, on CBS Digital (2-1) in Chicagoland. I was told that at that time (with this 'new' TVG Data) TVG data will suddenly "Appear" in vertical interval, possibly on the TVG option within the box (DTV PAL Page 23 as mentioned above).

I was further warned that when this happens, the TVG data MAY NOT end up on line 15, but the 3410a TVG board WILL FIND IT.....

That explains what I had seen long ago and just verified with my old Telequipment scope (I was pleased to find it still works after all these years). My 3410A will pick either the CBS or PBS station on cable as the guide channel, but I never get good data from the PBS one so I locked it to CBS and have had good data ever since. But there is nothing at all on line 15. Lines 16 and 20-22 have data and lines 17-19 have test signals. The PBS station has data on 13-16, 21 and 22.

A knowledgeable tech, probably the CE, at the CBS station is active on the local forum. He said they've been transmitting digital TVGOS for several months. He didn't say anything about a special version for analog-only boxes.

I waited as long as I could but finally used my last coupon on a second Zenith. Excellent tuner, but it doesn't put out anything in the VBI except on line 21. If someone finds that the TVPal or the rumored $40 version will do what we want I'll pay full price.
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post #5284 of 7202 Old 07-09-2008, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

In Chicagoland, the "Proper" TVG data for boxes will not be transmitted until end of August, on CBS Digital (2-1) in Chicagoland. I was told that at that time (with this 'new' TVG Data) TVG data will suddenly "Appear" in vertical interval, possibly on the TVG option within the box (DTV PAL Page 23 as mentioned above).

I was further warned that when this happens, the TVG data MAY NOT end up on line 15, but the 3410a TVG board WILL FIND IT.....

The August date is in Chicagoland area.... Don't know about other cities.

Oh yes, I was also told that the DTVPAL box is essentially the Echostar TR40 (For our 3410a use) !

I'm wondering if the setup I saw on line 20 is a placeholder for the TVG Data to be inserted later? Is this spooky or what?

Jan - I'm a little puzzled about the words used above..

first, when you say "proper" TVGOS data for boxes, what do you mean? What boxes - the cecbs, or our TV Guide devices? The data the DTVPal needs? or ANY TVGOS data over digital? or data specific to the 3410a? OR the data with fake zip codes that the DTVPal wants for analog only TVGOS devices?

I know...a lot of questions, but see where I'm confused? And I wonder whether your source had it straight about what the DTVPal is for, because IT seems designed primarily for analog-only TV Guide devices...

coming at it from another angle, is CBS digital ALREADY broadcasting ordinary TVGOS data in Chicagoland, as opposed to "proper" data?

I note that he DID say somethings specific, that the 3410a could find the TVGOS data on lines other than 15...so I guess he definitely knows YOU are talking about the 3410a..

can you help straighten out at least some of my confusion?

In the mean time, I'm tempted to get an RCA box (much as I hate to go to Walmart) and then use my Sony 250 (as described in that thread) to see if it IS converting TVGOS data from our San Francisco digital station to vbi.

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TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5285 of 7202 Old 07-09-2008, 02:27 PM
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"Proper" wasn't my wording, it was his...
Aparantly they (CBS 2-1) are transmitting Data, but it is not compatable with our (HD Converter)boxes, such as DTVPAL. Something will happen in August (turn last bit on? -- Switch to new code?--???) and when they do that, THEN the TVG data should be seen in the TVGOS mode (where menus are locked out I assume--see page 23 in DTVPAL manual)....

"And when this data does appear in VBI, it may not be on line 15" Again, that's the wording I heard....

Actually, I was being kind of short with him when the conversation started, because I had the scope information, and TVG Data simply wasn't there. He put me on hold to get some data, and when he came back he said that "In Chicago, the 'Proper' data was not yet being sent, and until it is, there will be no TVG data seen in VBI"...
(VBI=Vertical Blanking Interval).

John T.... Are you watching me tread water on this subject?? Can you shed any information on this? I'd love to hear what you know!!!

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post #5286 of 7202 Old 07-09-2008, 02:47 PM
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Jan, thanks for clarification...I still hope that the "Proper" data he is talking about ISN'T the special TVGOS data set (labeled by a substitute zip code) that enables an ANALOG TV Guide device to continue to use its TV Guide and to control - using non-digital numbering - what digital channel the DTVPal tunes to!

That's what the appendix beginning on page 23 described...

Onward and...some direction! Tony

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TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5287 of 7202 Old 07-10-2008, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

I still hope that the "Proper" data he is talking about ISN'T the special TVGOS data set (labeled by a substitute zip code) that enables an ANALOG TV Guide device to continue to use its TV Guide and to control - using non-digital numbering - what digital channel the DTVPal tunes to!

Would that really be a problem? Suppose I have an OTA channel 10-3 that the data set says is on channel 0103 or 1003 or whatever a strictly analog TVGOS-enabled device can output via G-Link and the DTVPal can respond to, to set the correct channel . On the 3410A I'd just edit that in channel setup to say I get it on 10-3. The DTVPal wouldn't have to understand that; I wouldn't be using it to tune the channel.
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post #5288 of 7202 Old 07-10-2008, 11:37 AM
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Would that really be a problem? Suppose I have an OTA channel 10-3 that the data set says is on channel 0103 or 1003 or whatever a strictly analog TVGOS-enabled device can output via G-Link and the DTVPal can respond to, to set the correct channel . On the 3410A I'd just edit that in channel setup to say I get it on 10-3. The DTVPal wouldn't have to understand that; I wouldn't be using it to tune the channel.

right now the standard TVGOS data set, as I understand it, goes by REAL zip code, so that users like us get data appropriate for our zip code, which includes not only OTA channels, but cable, for which listings vary by area more that the OTA channels do...I assume the CBS digital stations would be broadcasting the same complete data...and am pretty confident that 3410a and Sony 250 users are going to want that data to continue...or maybe I have this wrong, being only an OTA user myself

I guess it is true that those of us who are only OTA could make do with the data that are designed for analog TV Guide devices...but actually, my guess has been that the DTVPal would pass both the normal TVGOS data and that little added (fake zip code) set for the analog TV Guide devices...

I guess we'll eventually see whether the DTVPal works with TVGOS and for whom...mine is supposed to arrive next week, but it sounds like we won't be able to check how it works for TVGOS for some time...and even that may depend on when this addition to the TVGOS broadcast is implemented (assuming I'm describing it right)

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TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5289 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

"Proper" wasn't my wording, it was his...
Aparantly they (CBS 2-1) are transmitting Data, but it is not compatable with our (HD Converter)boxes, such as DTVPAL. Something will happen in August (turn last bit on? -- Switch to new code?--???) and when they do that, THEN the TVG data should be seen in the TVGOS mode (where menus are locked out I assume--see page 23 in DTVPAL manual)....

"And when this data does appear in VBI, it may not be on line 15" Again, that's the wording I heard....

Actually, I was being kind of short with him when the conversation started, because I had the scope information, and TVG Data simply wasn't there. He put me on hold to get some data, and when he came back he said that "In Chicago, the 'Proper' data was not yet being sent, and until it is, there will be no TVG data seen in VBI"...
(VBI=Vertical Blanking Interval).

John T.... Are you watching me tread water on this subject?? Can you shed any information on this? I'd love to hear what you know!!!

So let me pose a pure hypothetical and see how it stacks up against the multiple statements from the various sources.

Is it possible there will actually be 2 forms of TVGOS data streams that will be present going forward?

Let's suppose the first version is the "digital" TVGOS that is on ATSC CBS currently that some digital-capable TVGOS recorders are using. Let's say this is a new revised version of TVGOS that has the ability to be improved and expanded over time.

Let's suppose the 2nd version is a legacy TVGOS also to be transmitted on the ATSC channel, but this version is limited to what the legacy equipment can handle. This legacy TVGOS is transmitted using the DVS706 (VBI in MPG) standard that Gemstar referred to in their FCC filings. This form of TVGOS is intended to be used by older equipment that can only get TVGOS data via analog inputs. It is expected the user will have some CECB capable of reading DVS706 data in the ATSC channel and reinserting into the analog output of the CECB box (to be eventually consumed by legacy TVGOS analog equipment)

Now *if* (and that is a big if) that was the case, then it would seem the "proper" data being mentioned is actually DVS706-based TVGOS data. That would also mean we can't really tell whether a CECB box supports TVGOS VBI reinsertion unless we can first verify that the DVS706 data is present in the stream and properly set up to be reinserted. Under these assumptions, the mere presence of "digital" TVGOS would not be enough for the box to perform TVGOS VBI reinsertion. It would need the DVS706 "VBI in MPG" data to perform that function.

Now regarding the "fake" zip codes you guys are talking about. I was under the impression the fake zip code was being used to provide a normalized channel numbering scheme (ie without subchannels) to control tuner boxes that have decided they want to go through the extra effort of being controllable (via IR) by a legacy TVGOS equipment which doesn't understand subchannels. So instead of using 5.1, the guide data would refer to 0051 and the CECB would tune to 5.1 when it encountered 0051 coming in from IR. That was why I was guessing DTVPAL goes into a complete personality change when you choose the TVGOS option, namely so it can be properly controlled by legacy TVGOS equipment's IR and channel numbering.
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post #5290 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 01:48 AM
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The only thing is that the DTVPal numbers it's channels like **-***, so unless the recorder can put out a dash, I don't fully understand how it can change channels on the Pal.

Another thing that worries me is that I get channels from three markets OTA, and my analog TVGOS shows and gets data for all of them. But with this new, digital VBI data and "fake zipcode", will any or all of these channels still be covered?
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post #5291 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

The only thing is that the DTVPal numbers it's channels like **-***, so unless the recorder can put out a dash, I don't fully understand how it can change channels on the Pal.

Another thing that worries me is that I get channels from three markets OTA, and my analog TVGOS shows and gets data for all of them. But with this new, digital VBI data and "fake zipcode", will any or all of these channels still be covered?

Rammi...I'm not sure which comment above you are responding to, but if the digital TVGOS transmissions are eventually just the digital form of the TVGOS data we get already, augmented by this data set with a fake zip code, and all this is put into vbi by a device like the DTVPal, then 1) a device like the 3410a will pick out data for the same zip code that it does now, and work normally, but 2)an ANALOG TV Guide device would be set up with the fake zip code (00003 for Chicagoland), so it picks out the data set with analog numbers substituted for the digital OTA channels.

As to which channels for which market THAT data set would include, I don't know...it seems to me that it could include channels from adjacent markets, provided the channel numbers didn't conflict...is that what the TVGOS data does now for a given real zip code? I think so, because my TV Guide can give me daata from Sacramento, 90 miles away). But it couldn't have detailed data for cable channels from all those markets, nor indeed all the zip codes for the Chicago market (for example), because they vary by zip code within the market?

As far as the question of the DTVPal dealing with non-digital channel numbers coming from the ANALOG TV Guide device:

The TV Guide device will have a set of data (according to the appendix in the DTVPal manual) that - on the TV Guide screen - shows a channel like 0051, in stead of 5.1 (which it CAN'T show), as having certain programs at certain times, and so on . If a recording is set for one of them, at the appropriate time the analog device puts out the instruction to change to that channel via the blaster, and - IN THE TVGOS MODE - the DTVPAL interprets that as 5-1 and tunes to that channel. This is the only way that the description of what happens in that mode makes sense. Agreed that the TUNER only numbers channels like 5-1, but whatever is receiving the number from the blaster in the TVGOS mode has to do the shift from 0051 to 5-1 in front of the tuner! Make sense?

I don't see any other way of interpreting what the appendix describes, because the ANALOG TV Guide device for which this approach is designed CAN'T make this translation, yet the DTVPal has to respond to the command based on this number.

I have to say, I am intrigued enough by the flat-out statement made earlier by the Gemstar guy that they had ALREADY tested the RCA cecb and found it DID successfully convert the TVGOS data that I might just go get one of the RCA boxes and test IT with my Sony 250 in the manner described in that thread. But then I would have TWO devices in my house that are claimed to handle this conversion! And I only need one...

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TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5292 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 08:57 AM
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I have to say, I am intrigued enough by the flat-out statement made earlier by the Gemstar guy that they had ALREADY tested the RCA cecb and found it DID successfully convert the TVGOS data that I might just go get one of the RCA boxes and test IT with my Sony 250 in the manner described in that thread. But then I would have TWO devices in my house that are claimed to handle this conversion! And I only need one...

Do you have any insight by what was meant by the person who told Jan about the "proper" data? Is it possible that they were talking about DVS706-based TVGOS data that I was hypothesizing about? If that was the case, does CBS (or some other channel) in the Bay Area send the "proper" data for VBI reinsertion yet? If the "proper" data isn't there (I wish these tidbits we are getting would use more detailed descriptions) then it wouldn't be useful to test right now.
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post #5293 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 09:30 AM
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That's why I needled John T, as he works there, and I was hoping he'd explain more. They are going to move from one building to another in August/Sept.
So it could be that the new code won't be ready till August, or maybe code won't be inserted/implemented until the move in Aug/Sept ??? I don't know...

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post #5294 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

I'm not sure which comment above you are responding to.... but an ANALOG TV Guide device would be set up with the fake zip code (00003 for Chicagoland), so it picks out the data set with analog numbers substituted for the digital.

Yeah, I was referring to my older, analog-tunered recorders.
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post #5295 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 11:59 AM
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Hello guys,

I wasn't able to make my 3410a work for two weeks. I am not ready to let this unit go. I love it! There is nothing out there like this.

It no longer shows front display and has no video output. I have tried unplugging it for a couple of days. I even tried disconnecting the power plugs inside to get rid of any voltage remaining in the circuit board hoping for a sucessful restart. All it does do is light up all 5 leds on the motherboard and spins the harddrive forever until I turn the unit off.


I wonder if anyone had a problem like this! Could this be a power supply problem? What should I look for?


I had this DVR for two years which I brought off from ebay with 90 day warranty.
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post #5296 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 02:47 PM
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I'm assumeing you have it un-plugged from the wall outlet now.
If not do so, and wait 5 minutes.
Plug it in, before hitting any power button, peek inside and tell me if you see any leds glowing...
Tell me what location they are, and what color.
Also, tell me if ANYTHING is glowing on the front panel.

Next. Hit the power button, and tell me what you see on the front panel.
If it does not power up, un-plug from wall, and post results.

Also, tell me about the unit recently...
Have you encountered any abrupt reboots, or while shuttling through TVG any lockups, or any reboots that you didn't ask for?

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post #5297 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

Do you have any insight by what was meant by the person who told Jan about the "proper" data? Is it possible that they were talking about DVS706-based TVGOS data that I was hypothesizing about? If that was the case, does CBS (or some other channel) in the Bay Area send the "proper" data for VBI reinsertion yet? If the "proper" data isn't there (I wish these tidbits we are getting would use more detailed descriptions) then it wouldn't be useful to test right now.

In principle anything is possible, and I'm just guessing about what "proper" data might be...

Another thing that I haven't really taken account of is the different varieties of TVGOS data, aside from this set associated with the "fake" zip codes for the use of analog only TV Guide devices...

There must be AT LEAST 4, and probably more, generations of TV Guide devices that are now getting TVGOS data, and up to 9 or 10 if you pay attention to the different TV Guide versions (version 7 for the 3410a)...

Do these different versions each have their own set of TVGOS data being broadcast? Presumably at least the active ones up through 9 are getting their data (mainly) from the PBS analog stations through vbi. So are there 4 or more independent sets of data, or is it one set of data, and the units with different versions simply pick out the data appropriate for their version AND the channels selected for display in the TV Guide in that unit.

I think someone, perhaps Jan J, made a remark somewhere that implied that v7 and v8 are separate, but both on "line 15" of vbi currently. If so, that probably means there are at least 2 other versions (and probably more) out there, still having corresponding independent sets of data being broadcast.

If they are independent, then version 8 and 9 have no conversion worries, at least for digital units like the Sony 250, because they have digital tuners. But are there analog devices that use version 8 (or 7) data? I don't even know that...I know I have seen TVGOS analog devices for sale in stores as recently as, say, 3 years ago, which would mean them are contemporary with or even more recent than the Sony 250...

See where I'm going? I don't really know beans about the different versions and how they correspond to TVGOS data sets OR to different TV Guide devices.

Can someone who knows more tell us something about the last issue, hpw do TVGOS version correspond to broadcast data set and to different types of TV Guide devices???

Thanks - Tony

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5298 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

The only thing is that the DTVPal numbers it's channels like **-***, so unless the recorder can put out a dash, I don't fully understand how it can change channels on the Pal.

Rammitinski, when it is in TVGOS mode, my DTVPal interprets channel numbers without any dashes just fine. My VCR sends data over the G-link and changes the channels on the Pal. For instance, I enter 0030 on my VCR's remote, and the Pal changes to 9-3. 00191 makes it turn to 9-1, 00192 is 9-2, and 00193 is also 9-3.

I am not getting TVGOS from the Pal to the VCR but I can use the VCR to manually change channels on the Pal. BTW, this is a 1999-vintage VCR with no idea about digital channel numbering.
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post #5299 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

I'm assumeing you have it un-plugged from the wall outlet now.
If not do so, and wait 5 minutes.
Plug it in, before hitting any power button, peek inside and tell me if you see any leds glowing...
Tell me what location they are, and what color.
Also, tell me if ANYTHING is glowing on the front panel.

Next. Hit the power button, and tell me what you see on the front panel.
If it does not power up, un-plug from wall, and post results.

Also, tell me about the unit recently...
Have you encountered any abrupt reboots, or while shuttling through TVG any lockups, or any reboots that you didn't ask for?



Thanks for responding!

It was already unplugged.

When I plugged it again without pressing the power button, there were only two red leds glowing. One was located on the little circuit board that connects to the G-link socket.(LED100) The other one was on the main board on the right side. It is near the silver metal boxes which are for the cable input. (LED102)

When powered up, no light on the front panel display. It was completely dead.

I didn't have any of those problems (encountered any abrupt reboots, or while shuttling through TVG any lockups, or any reboots). I did notice that the hard drive was getting slower at starting up. The hard drive was nearly full. I thought the slowness in starting up was due to this. I didn't have this problem before when it was that full.

I don't use this unit everyday and might have missed any other problems that must have occurred before this.

Hopefully it is something simple!
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post #5300 of 7202 Old 07-11-2008, 09:36 PM
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Probably not...

Unless you have a power supply issue (Preventing boot), you've a boot issue.
Are you good with a Digital Voltmeter? As I'm thinking that's the next step.

I tried repairing a low level boot issue.... And after about 2 months I threw in the towel.

There was nothing on that unit's display either, and the drive spun up and locked..... But nothing...

If you're good with a DVM, I'd say you should measure all the pins on the power supply, except for the AC input of course.... Take two sets of readings, one with on/off switch in Off position (yes, power supply partially works then, too!) and another set of readings with power switch on.... Your DVM should be able to read 1/100's of a volt.
When you post, if you say 5V it won't be accurate enough. If you say it measures 5.13V then you are talking accuracy! There is a little connector going to the front panel... You would want to measure that, too.

In all honesty you want it to be a power supply.... If you have a scope measure the noise level on the 3.3 and 3.9 volt supplies, as they are very critical.

AND OH YES........ BE CAREFUL!!! SWITCHING SUPPLIES HAVE RAW AC VOLTAGE ON THEM!!! GROUND YOUR SCOPE OR DVM TO METAL CHASSIS GROUND--NOT WHAT LOOKS LIKE GROUND ON THE POWER SUPPLY, AS IT MAY VERY WELL BE RAW AC VOLTAGE, which can be "Exciting"!!!!

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post #5301 of 7202 Old 07-12-2008, 02:16 PM
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I PM'd Jan J with the gory details, but I verified that I've been getting reliable guide data from a station that transmits it only on line 16. That shows that it doesn't have to be on line 15.
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post #5302 of 7202 Old 07-12-2008, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

Probably not...

Unless you have a power supply issue (Preventing boot), you've a boot issue.
Are you good with a Digital Voltmeter? As I'm thinking that's the next step.

I tried repairing a low level boot issue.... And after about 2 months I threw in the towel.

There was nothing on that unit's display either, and the drive spun up and locked..... But nothing...

If you're good with a DVM, I'd say you should measure all the pins on the power supply, except for the AC input of course.... Take two sets of readings, one with on/off switch in Off position (yes, power supply partially works then, too!) and another set of readings with power switch on.... Your DVM should be able to read 1/100's of a volt.
When you post, if you say 5V it won't be accurate enough. If you say it measures 5.13V then you are talking accuracy! There is a little connector going to the front panel... You would want to measure that, too.

In all honesty you want it to be a power supply.... If you have a scope measure the noise level on the 3.3 and 3.9 volt supplies, as they are very critical.

AND OH YES........ BE CAREFUL!!! SWITCHING SUPPLIES HAVE RAW AC VOLTAGE ON THEM!!! GROUND YOUR SCOPE OR DVM TO METAL CHASSIS GROUND--NOT WHAT LOOKS LIKE GROUND ON THE POWER SUPPLY, AS IT MAY VERY WELL BE RAW AC VOLTAGE, which can be "Exciting"!!!!



I brushed dust off from my old DMV from college.


I measured all the pins and here are they.


33 va OFF 30.95 ON 30.95
5.5 va OFF 5.45 ON 5.45
3.3 v OFF .006 ON 3.27
3.3 v OFF .0057 ON 3.269
3.3 v OFF .0057 ON 3.269
5.0 v OFF .0041 ON 5.02
5.0 v OFF .0041 ON 5.02
9.0 v OFF .0039 ON 8.98
3.8 v OFF 3.96 ON 3.845

HD voltage

5.0 v OFF .0036 ON 5.03
12.0 v OFF .0008 ON 11.93

Display voltage
FD (+) OFF 28.56 ON 30.10
FD (-) OFF 28.6 ON 30.96
29 va OFF 30.96 ON 33.82


Last three voltage readings for the ON position for display moves up and down due to pulsing voltage for the display.

It seems that the power supply is working. I don't have an oscilloscope to measure the noise levels. I have inspected the power board. There does not seem to be any dark area due to heat. All the resistors look good. No hairline cracks in them. All transistors and capacitors look ok from visual inspection.

The two big chips on the main board do feel really warm when in on position. I am assuming that is normal!

I am guessing it is a software problem or some failure on the main board.
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post #5303 of 7202 Old 07-12-2008, 10:42 PM
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I stand corrected... (Location of TVG). I stated 15 cause that's where I put it.
It's apparent that it can go elsewhere!

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post #5304 of 7202 Old 07-12-2008, 10:49 PM
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So, I wonder if different guide versions are being sent on different lines, and that's how the units know where to look for their data.
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post #5305 of 7202 Old 07-12-2008, 11:02 PM
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[quote=mjklm;14276608]I brushed dust off from my old DMV from college.


I measured all the pins and here are they.


33 va OFF 30.95 ON 30.95 bit low, but ok
5.5 va OFF 5.45 ON 5.45 ok
3.3 v OFF .006 ON 3.27 ok This is 3.3 supply #2
3.3 v OFF .0057 ON 3.269 ok This is 3.3 supply #1
3.3 v OFF .0057 ON 3.269 ok This is 3.3 supply #1 (connected to above pin)
5.0 v OFF .0041 ON 5.02 ok
5.0 v OFF .0041 ON 5.02 ok (connected to above pin)
9.0 v OFF .0039 ON 8.98 ok
3.8 v OFF 3.96 ON 3.845 ok (Note: this is the feed to both 3.3 supplies, and feeds 3.3 supply #3 on the motherboard)

HD voltage

5.0 v OFF .0036 ON 5.03 OK
12.0 v OFF .0008 ON 11.93 OK

Display voltage
FD (+) OFF 28.56 ON 30.10 NG (I think you mean -30.10 VOLTAGE WRONG! Should be ~-20.68)
FD (-) OFF 28.6 ON 30.96 NG (I think you mean -30.96 VOLTAGE WRONG! Should be ~-24.74
29 va OFF 30.96 ON 33.82 NG (I think you mean -33.82 VOLTAGE WRONG! Should be ~-28.81)


Last QUOTE]


No!!! part of your power supply is not working right!!
I had a simelar one (exact symptoms) recently... and the symptom was no display! Yes! it would not boot!

You need to get a Power Supply Schematic.
FD (+) wants to be -20.68 or so on
FD (-) wants to be -24.74 volts or so on
29va wants to be -28.81v or so on

I'm wracking my brain on exactly where the problem was, BECAUSE IT WAS A SIMPLE FIX!! It was either a cracked trace or bad solder connection. I found it by doing a continuity test from component to component, and I think it had to do with either Transformer pin 18 & D128 or Transformer pin 17 and some other componenet. I may have mentioned it here, but I can't remember...
There's a Zener Diode that puts a 3v difference between 29va and FD(-) and that voltage difference is still there in your measurements, and since you have nearly the same wrong voltage on FD (+) and FD (-), I'm thinking your failure might be identical to the one I fixed, cause Pin 18 on the switching transformer drives FD (+) supply, and Pin 17 of the switching transformer drives the FD (-) supply, and with no load of FD+ & FD- on the 29va supply, all will float more negative...

Also... look around the base of C125, C126, C122. If you see any brown stain on the board, the cap is leaking... (Noise in 3.3 or 5v supply)
Find a post I made a while back regarding capacitor changes, part numbers from Digi-Key.


Let's continue this topic via PM

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post #5306 of 7202 Old 07-13-2008, 05:22 PM
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I'm wracking my brain on exactly where the problem was, BECAUSE IT WAS A SIMPLE FIX!! It was either a cracked trace or bad solder connection. I found it by doing a continuity test from component to component, and I think it had to do with either Transformer pin 18 & D128 or Transformer pin 17 and some other componenet. I may have mentioned it here, but I can't remember...


After putting time in my 3410a, finally the display glows up and the hello message came up!

Holy smokes, you are right that the problem was around pin 17 and 18 of the transformer. I did continuity test from pin 17 and along the trace. There was no resistance between pin 17 to components on that trace. I was puzzled since the soldering looked really good and couldn't find any cracks. I pressed the transformer down, pin 17 and pin 18 lifted the copper plate off the board on the bottom. I am guessing that with heating up and cooling down, the transformer expands and shrinks causing micro cracks on copper plate.


You brought it back alive! Thanks Jan!


This is a wonderful forum on LST-3410A. I hope this forum will be around for a long time!
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post #5307 of 7202 Old 07-14-2008, 06:40 AM
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Glad I was able to assist!

On the unit where I first saw this, I just soldered a resistor lead from transformer to component.

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post #5308 of 7202 Old 07-15-2008, 08:56 AM
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Here's a picture for you!
LL

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post #5309 of 7202 Old 07-15-2008, 06:06 PM
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Great Picture Jan. I'll see what I can find in the vbi here in the DC area.

Have a Great HDTV Day,

Fred
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post #5310 of 7202 Old 07-15-2008, 06:56 PM
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glad to see you posted that picture, Jan! I look forward to seeing something with converted data in it!

turns out I goofed up my DTVPal order, so it's been delayed...when I finally get it, I'm going to play around with my Sony 250 to see what its diagnostics see on the currrent PBS analog station , the CBS digital channel,and the CONVERTED CBS digital channel!

If I could get my hands on an RCA unit, I'd do the same thing with it...

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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