LG LST-3410A Review and Discussion - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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HDTV Recorders > LG LST-3410A Review and Discussion
lschuman's Avatar lschuman 08:23 PM 03-20-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by MrHifi
In DC tonight my 3410 recorded 3 hours of a cruisline still picture promo with the regular program audio in the background. It was set to record the ABC WJLA-TV Fri night Digital programming. Luckily I also ran my analog VCR and captured the programs that way.

I tuned across WJLA last night and saw the same thing you did.... a Carnival Cruise Lines still frame from a commercial and the program audio. The problem was not with the LG, but with master control at WJLA-DT.


Lee Schuman
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mkerdman's Avatar mkerdman 08:25 PM 03-20-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by umr
mkerdman,

These two STB's do not output the same signal levels. They need to be calibrated differently. I find the T165 to be off compared to the 3410. The T165 required SM adjustments on my set to even be usable over DVI. The 3410 levels appear to be much more normal. I see no difference in resolution using a 720p version of DVE between the two. The LG does a much better job converting 480p/i broadcasts to 1080i or 720p. The T165 did a poor job with this.

umr

"These two STB's do not output the same signal levels. They need to be calibrated differently."

What do you mean here? I can hook up any number of source devices with no calibration and get a very watchable picture.

If I need to greatly adjust my display from a normal factory gamma setting, then I know something is wrong.

"The T165 required SM adjustments on my set to even be usable over DVI. The 3410 levels appear to be much more normal. "

What display do you have?
umr's Avatar umr 10:05 PM 03-20-2004
A Sony KF-50XBR800. The black level on my T165 is way different than the 3410A.
mkerdman's Avatar mkerdman 10:11 PM 03-20-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by umr
A Sony KF-50XBR800. The black level on my T165 is way different than the 3410A.

umr

I also get greatly different PQ results from the two STB's.

It's just that on my DLP (vs. your LCD) it is in favor of the T165 on all material at all resolutions.
KornerKlub's Avatar KornerKlub 09:52 AM 03-21-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by mkerdman
umr

I also get greatly different PQ results from the two STB's.

It's just that on my DLP (vs. your LCD) it is in favor of the T165 on all material at all resolutions.

mkerdman

Have you set the DVI Level on the 3410 to "Expand"? If not, do so and then try again.
mkerdman's Avatar mkerdman 11:48 AM 03-21-2004
KornerClub

Like most "know-it-all" Americans I did not read the manual throughly and failed to set the DVI Level on the 3410 to "Expand".

It makes a big difference on my DLP.

I will not be able to critically compare it until nightfall, but, I suspect it will bring the performance of the 3410 up substantially. It should now be on a par, or, better than, the Samsung because of the native output alone.

Thanks!

The only other useful thing to me about the Samsung T165 is that it allows me to leave the 169Time STB hooked up to the JVC 30K. If I put in any DVHS tape, and, press PLAY and then STOP, I can then monitor the 169Time STB output live over DVI, which is an output the 169Time STB itself does not have.

For me this is helpful.

Anybody with a new LG 3410 who wants to sell a good working Samsung T165 cheap should PM me?
jlanzy's Avatar jlanzy 01:09 PM 03-21-2004
Is there any way to do a timer recording (i.e. not directly hitting the record button at the start of a program) of an OTA HD in hd via firewire or any other connection to the JVC 30K? I've looked at some of the issues on the T165 and Motorola 6200 which indicates that you can't.
joe
umr's Avatar umr 01:44 PM 03-21-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by jlanzy
Is there any way to do a timer recording (i.e. not directly hitting the record button at the start of a program) of an OTA HD in hd via firewire or any other connection to the JVC 30K? I've looked at some of the issues on the T165 and Motorola 6200 which indicates that you can't.
joe

I was able to do this with my T165, but the clock problems were a BIG problem in Houston. I have not attempted this with the 3410A and don't see a need for it myself.
jlanzy's Avatar jlanzy 08:07 PM 03-21-2004
I was asking about recording hd directly to dvhs in the event I fill my hdd with its smallish 120GB, which is getting filled quickly now. I do plan to get Hitachi's new parallel ATA 400GB when it hits retailers next month, but until then I'd have to start dumping already recorded material on the hdd to dvhs which I was hoping to avoid.
joe
umr's Avatar umr 08:47 PM 03-21-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by jlanzy
I was asking about recording hd directly to dvhs in the event I fill my hdd with its smallish 120GB, which is getting filled quickly now. I do plan to get Hitachi's new parallel ATA 400GB when it hits retailers next month, but until then I'd have to start dumping already recorded material on the hdd to dvhs which I was hoping to avoid.
joe

You could always upgrade to an intermediate sized drive. My 200 GB Seagate seems plenty large for me and only cost $99.
MrHifi's Avatar MrHifi 09:11 PM 03-21-2004
Do any of you watch the programs you record or just play with the machines?
mkerdman's Avatar mkerdman 11:22 PM 03-21-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by KornerKlub
mkerdman

Have you set the DVI Level on the 3410 to "Expand"? If not, do so and then try again.

KornerKlub

Well, it's a pleasure to report that the "DVI Expand" gamma algorithm setting on the 3410 makes all the difference in the world on a DLP projector.

The resulting PQ of the 3410 is stellar, and superior to the Samsung T165 as well as most or all analog output STB's I have seen or used.

Thanks again, without your post I very well might have missed out on a good thing.
umr's Avatar umr 05:15 AM 03-22-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by MrHifi
Do any of you watch the programs you record or just play with the machines?

I watch it. There is nothing to play with.
alk3997's Avatar alk3997 10:07 AM 03-22-2004
I was bouncing a few items from the 30000U to the 3410a and then back again and found a couple of oddities this weekend. The reason I did this was to do some editing with the 3410a. Editing with the 3410a is sure a lot easier than trying it with the 30000u.

1) The total recording time is incorrect. If I send 2:10 minutes over the 1394 interface to the 3410a, it reports around 1:50 minutes of recording time. If I then send it back to the 30000U, the full 2:10 is played back. I wonder if the 3410a's new 250GB drive is messing up the time algorithms?? This doesn't seem to happen with over the air recordings direct to the 3410a.

2) If you use the "clip edit" function, go into FF or Rew (while in clip edit) and then go into the opposite direction (Rew or FF) the word "edit" is misspelled as "eidt". Going back into the original direction (FF or Rew) returns returns the word to "edit". So much for software QA.
mkerdman's Avatar mkerdman 02:39 PM 03-22-2004
I have set up the 3410 and told it I have and antenna and selected my (8) local HD-DTV stations and get no listings that way.

I tired adding just PBS and ABC analog to my Edited an Saved channels thinking they carry the EPG data, but, no luck.

When I tell it I have cable it of course gets all stations associated with my local cable provider, but, no HD-DTV OTA stations.

What is the correct procedure to get EPG data for OTA DTV channels?

Thanks in advance.

BTW, I called LG because it asks to you to on the box and they told me to call TVGuide.
KornerKlub's Avatar KornerKlub 06:10 PM 03-22-2004
You will only get Guide data for the OTA HD channels if TV Guide has it to give. Gemstar has only such much bandwidth to use and pick-and-chooses which channels to give guide for. Ironically, in my area I received guide data for network channels that I do not receive. So I just remapped that data to the channel numbers for my OTA HD channels. Since they are both networks, the data is usually correct.
mkerdman's Avatar mkerdman 06:15 PM 03-22-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by KornerKlub
You will only get Guide data for the OTA HD channels if TV Guide has it to give. Gemstar has only such much bandwidth to use and pick-and-chooses which channels to give guide for. Ironically, in my area I received guide data for network channels that I do not receive. So I just remapped that data to the channel numbers for my OTA HD channels. Since they are both networks, the data is usually correct.

KornerKlub

So, there is no dedicated HDTV listings similar to TitanTV?

Is everyone just remapping the analog EPG data and using their own knowledge, or TTV, as to what is HD and what is not?

Where is the screen to remap the analog "CBS" to the digital channel number?
umr's Avatar umr 07:25 PM 03-22-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by mkerdman
...Is everyone just remapping the analog EPG data and using their own knowledge, or TTV, as to what is HD and what is not?...

This is not required in Houston. UPN digital requires remapping of the digital channel because it is wrong in the data.

Look in the manual it shows you how to remap the guide.
mkerdman's Avatar mkerdman 07:31 PM 03-22-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by umr
This is not required in Houston. UPN digital requires remapping of the digital channel because it is wrong in the data.
Look in the manual it shows you how to remap the guide.


If you tell TVGuide that you have an antenna, will it get any EPG data about the DTV broadcasts provided by TVGuide and set out over ABCor PBS, or, does it default to PSIP at that point?
PhillyC's Avatar PhillyC 07:41 PM 03-22-2004
For those of you who might be wondering approximately how many hours of HD data the 3410A HDD will hold and what will happen when recording/timeshifting if the disk becomes full:

As an experiment, I let the 3410A HDD fill up to within 1 minute of being full (according to the program display). I then started a manual record which lasted 3 minutes and stopped with the disk full message. Then I deleted the 3 minute segment.

The HDD at that point held just over 14 hours of recorded programs. But adding up the file sizes of the stored programs gave a total of 104 GB, 16 GB short of the 120 GB disk size.

Interestingly, the remaining 16 GB of space seems to be reserved for Timeshifting (and probably for system files), since the Timeshift function still worked. I started the Timeshift function, which continued to record for about 35 minutes, whereupon approximately 10 minutes was deleted from the beginning of the buffer, and Timeshifting continued forward. This last sequence was repeated about every 10 minutes.

I did not test this with more of the first 104 GB available, but I would assume that that space would be used for timeshifting as well as the reserved space. Reserved space may be used first, which is why the remaining time display is not affected by Timeshifting. (Or does lengthy Timeshifting affect the remaining time display eventually?)

Since OTA HD (for me) averages less than 8 GB per hour, it would appear that about 1/4 of the 16 GB reserved space is used for timeshifting, and the rest for system files.


Conclusions:

1) The 3410A works as advertised (or better) with respect to HD recording time available, even though you don't get full use of the 120 GB.
2) Timeshifting works as advertised, with the added twist of a "reserved space" even when the HDD is "full".
3) We can assume that the problems of LG's (Zenith's) earlier DVR do not exist here, since no data was lost during these tests.
umr's Avatar umr 08:05 PM 03-22-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by mkerdman
If you tell TVGuide that you have an antenna, will it get any EPG data about the DTV broadcasts provided by TVGuide and set out over ABCor PBS, or, does it default to PSIP at that point?

Mine gets the TVGuide data in Houston with only DTV channels active.
KornerKlub's Avatar KornerKlub 08:50 PM 03-22-2004
Simple solution to those that must delete channels and then prevent Guide downloads:

Do not delete network and PBS channels in the LST-3410A's menu. This removes the channels from the tuner's memory. The TV Guide portion needs tuner access to these channels. Instead, if you feel that you must remove these channels, simply remove them with the TV Guide setup portion.
umr's Avatar umr 09:02 PM 03-22-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by KornerKlub
Simple solution to those that must delete channels and then prevent Guide downloads:

Do not delete network and PBS channels in the LST-3410A's menu. This removes the channels from the tuner's memory. The TV Guide portion needs tuner access to these channels. Instead, if you feel that you must remove these channels, simply remove them with the TV Guide setup portion.

I deleted all analog channels from the 3410A's channel list and I still get guide data. It must depend on location.
KornerKlub's Avatar KornerKlub 09:54 PM 03-22-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by umr
I deleted all analog channels from the 3410A's channel list and I still get guide data. It must depend on location.

It does depend on location. That is why various people have various problems.
mkerdman's Avatar mkerdman 10:24 PM 03-22-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by KornerKlub
It does depend on location. That is why various people have various problems.

I forgot just how simplistic the programmers at Gemstar can be.

Do you get program descriptions?

My RCA 32" w/GuidePlus Gold does, but, the descritions I have seen so far in the 3410 consist of the next 3-6 hour sof programming on the current channel, not a program synopsis and the names of the actors you might see in oh, say, TV Guide.

It's ironic that Gemstar has sued and often won over the IP patents that other EPG's have put to much better use than have VCR+/GuidePlus/TV Guide.
merton's Avatar merton 10:30 PM 03-22-2004
Is there anyway to tell the 3410 Guide I do not have cable, yet still tune cable channels? My reasoning is this:

Our digital cable provider is Bellsouth, which is a pretty small provider with a limited area. Thus, if I tell the 3410 we have cable, but no box, I have to select "No Match" for the channel lineup, then manually assign the correct channel numbers. This would be O.K., but after leaving the box off and letting it acquire the Guide data, the 3410 setup menu pops up and makes me run EZ Scan again. This gets my channel listings and Guide data all scrambled. I can't ignore the request to run EZ Scan, as it pops up until I do it.

If I tell the 3410 we don't have cable, then I cannot manually tune cable channels. I would like to be able to manually program it to record a few cable channels.

BTW, tonight I tried moving the OTA digital up to the top of the Guide - a very lengthy process. I may have screwed up, because I had it setup to record the CBS News from one of the digital channels I moved. I turned the unit off. It missed the scheduled recording, then refused to turn on. I had to unplug it to get it to turn on, but then it had no time set on the clock. Everytime I tried to set the clock, it told me I would have to delete the scheduled recordings first. Yet, it refused to let me enter the Guide so I could delete the scheduled events.

I called LG's customer service; for the third time a big disappointment. They are always very nice, but clueless. The rep spent >25 minutes asking me to try various menu options, many of which did not exist. All the while I could hear her flipping pages in a manual and she put me on hold several times for 3-4 minutes. We finally realized she was reading from the 3510 manual - not the 3410 manual. I politely explained that the 3410 had a DVR, not a DVD player. Unfortunately, another 40 minutes yielded no further results. She did say she would have someone more knowlegable call tomorrow, but I swear I don't think I ever gave her my phone number, just my email address.

The LG is light years beyond the Samsung 165 P.O.S. it replaced, and I don't miss the 165 one bit, but at least we could sometimes get Samsung's Steve Plechy on the phone. He really knew the product. LG needs to provide MUCH better training for their customer service reps.

Jim
Muse's Avatar Muse 03:45 PM 03-23-2004
Suppose I use the 3410A to record a 3 hour program and walk in 1/2 way through the recording. Can I start watching it immediately from the beginning while recording the rest?
mkerdman's Avatar mkerdman 04:09 PM 03-23-2004
When viewing the On-Screen INFO and TV Guide EPG, does anyone get Program Descriptions like the sample below, or just the name of the program?


I get similar data on my RCA TV with Gemstar GuidePlus, but, not so with the TV Guide in the 3410.

------------------------------------------------------
NYPD Blue

Old Yeller

A kidnapping victim's startling statement clues Andy and John in on a serial sadist keeping women locked in a dungeon somewhere in New York. Meanwhile, a routine robbery investigation takes a saucy turn for Medavoy (2004)

Dennis Franz, Gordon Clapp, Esai Morales, Garcelle Beauvais-Nilon, Charlotte Ross

Police/Crime Drama
-----------------------------------------------------
KornerKlub's Avatar KornerKlub 05:08 PM 03-23-2004
I usually get similar descriptions, just without the list of actors.
mkerdman's Avatar mkerdman 06:08 PM 03-23-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by KornerKlub
I usually get similar descriptions, just without the list of actors.

Are you downloading the analog channel and re-mapping, or, the actual "2-1" DTV channel?
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