LG LST-3410A Review and Discussion - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 7201 Old 02-23-2004, 06:31 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by PhillyC
OTOH, although I'm in a large market, I'm temporarily set up only for OTA. It seems like it shouldn't take so long to download a few OTA channels. [/b]

The complete guide package is included in the data-stream. When you are setup for only OTA, the unit pulls just the OTA channels out of the packets. But the entire guide data is there being sent.
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post #242 of 7201 Old 02-23-2004, 09:00 PM
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Quote:


Anyone tried this with a CRT projector? How's the quality of the RGB?

I use a 50" Sony computer monitor for casual TV watching and surfing. I connected it to the 3410A via the RGB interface and it looks good, real good with HD material. Analog/NTSC stuff is pretty terrible at times and quite nice at others, but that could be my monitor. For example I recorded Shrek and Law & Order over the week-end and they looked much better than when I get them straight from the cable to my TV. They were not as good as a DVD, but it was close. Other stations and other shows often look terrible.

There is much more variation between analog stations when I use the RGB cable connected to the Sony than there is when I connect via component input to my DLP projector. Again this problem may be my 7 year old monitor doesn't respond well to the the poor NTSC signal. However, when I'm viewing HD, the monitor connected via RGB looks fine.

The thing that is amazing to me is how good things look when I take analog TV shows and put then up on a 96" screen using the component input to my DLP projector. Shrek was ever so slightly fuzzy in spots, but I could still plainly see the hairs on the donkey and the colors were good.
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post #243 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 07:47 AM
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I'm hoping to get my 3410A before this weekend and had a quick question. I thought earlier in the thread it says you need to turn on OTA only, let it download the quide and then you can turn on cable also, and then have it get the quide for that.

If all the data is sent at the same time can't I just say I have OTA and cable, and then let it get the guide? Thanks.

John

Quote:


Originally posted by KornerKlub
The complete guide package is included in the data-stream. When you are setup for only OTA, the unit pulls just the OTA channels out of the packets. But the entire guide data is there being sent.

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post #244 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 08:58 AM
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jcg,

Here's what I've learned (I think) after much experimentation. Others here will correct me if I'm not quite right.

The 3410A asks you if you have cable - yes or no. If no, you can ONLY tune OTA channels and the Guide comes from OTA. If yes, you can tune OTA and cable and digital cable, and the Guide info for cable and OTA comes from cable. Confused yet?

In order to get Guide info when you have cable, you MUST connect your cable service and the 3410A in one of the three ways shown in the manual.

Now here's where I'm using my powers of deduction because I can't actually try some things until I switch to Comcast. I have a cable box with only RF out. It is only for unscrambling premium channels. I can bypass the box and watch all other cable channels. But --- bypassing the box gets NO Guide info. For some reason, it seems the Guide info can only be obtained when the signal comes through the cable box. It also appears that even if your cable box has an RF Loop Out, you MUST also connect the box's AV Out jacks to the AV1 In jacks on the 3410A in order to get Guide info.

Going back to your specific question, I had the box set for OTA only and got OTA Guide info. Then I switched to cable and lost all the OTA Guide info. (And, because I bypassed the cable box, could get no Guide whatsoever.) So I think you can just say yes to cable and you will get everything you need if you are hooked up properly.

Phil
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post #245 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 09:57 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by PhillyC
jcg,
I have a cable box with only RF out. It is only for unscrambling premium channels. I can bypass the box and watch all other cable channels. But --- bypassing the box gets NO Guide info. For some reason, it seems the Guide info can only be obtained when the signal comes through the cable box. It also appears that even if your cable box has an RF Loop Out, you MUST also connect the box's AV Out jacks to the AV1 In jacks on the 3410A in order to get Guide info.

Going back to your specific question, I had the box set for OTA only and got OTA Guide info. Then I switched to cable and lost all the OTA Guide info. (And, because I bypassed the cable box, could get no Guide whatsoever.) So I think you can just say yes to cable and you will get everything you need if you are hooked up properly.

That's not consistent with my experience. I first hooked up with OTA & Cable - telling it that I had Cable without a Box. In that situation it got the info for the digital OTA stations (but not analog OTA info), and the info for analog cable. Then I told it I had a cable box, and then it got the Cable box guide info and dropped the analog cable info. The pain for me is that once I told it I had cable it insists that everything expect digital OTA comes thro the cable box - which is a pain.
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post #246 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 10:09 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BenSanford
That's not consistent with my experience. I first hooked up with OTA & Cable - telling it that I had Cable without a Box. In that situation it got the info for the digital OTA stations (but not analog OTA info), and the info for analog cable. Then I told it I had a cable box, and then it got the Cable box guide info and dropped the analog cable info. The pain for me is that once I told it I had cable it insists that everything expect digital OTA comes thro the cable box - which is a pain.

Then my el cheapo little cableco and their el cheapo box are fouling me up. I'm in a high-rise building that is dumping them in the next few weeks. After the changeover to Comcast, I'll redo my whole setup. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying great OTA HD.

Phil
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post #247 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 02:09 PM
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My 3410 arrived last evening. After a few sidetracks and false moves, I got it all working (Sony 34XBR910 connected via DVI). The tuner in this box picks up way more stations than my Sony did using a Silver Sensor. The picture is superb, except that some of the local stations code their 4x3 digital as 16x9, 720i, so the automatic picture ratio is 4x3 with black sidebars. Some stations, when coded correctly, will give gray sidebars (less chance of burn-in). The only way around it is to either go through a long series of moves to expand the picture, or to switch to the analog output of that station. Without the STB, aspect ratio on the Sony was easy to adjust. The LG does adjust automatically between true 16x9 HD and 4x3 analog (with analog set to Wide). Just a minor pain. The PQ on true 16x9 HD is phenomenal, and recording is indistinguishable from original.

I also wish there were an antenna pass through so I wouldn't need a splitter if I wanted to watch analog while recording HD. I also understand that there is only about a 30 second window for the setup and programming to stay resident if a power outage occurs (not unusual in my area). So if one is gone for a while and the power drops out for over 30 sec., one has nothing recorded beyond the time of drop-out.

Nevertheless, I'm so far very pleased with this unit.

Dan
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post #248 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 04:08 PM
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My thoughts regarding the LG Electronics LST-3410A

Positives:

The tuner is fantastic. It is so sensitive that I get everything in my area perfectly. Stations that were marginal but receivable with a directional, rotate-able, roof antenna now come in with good on the signal strength meter. It is a great deal better than my RCA DTC100. Just a guess but it looks like the buffer may be larger and so very weak stations take a while to lock but then stay on full time.

Picture quality is incredible through RGBHV output. The composite and S outputs are also first rate. Up and down conversion is indistinguishable from native on a DWIN HD700 3 gun CRT projector.

Negatives:

Waiting for the guide to download was a pain. It finally came down after I stopped playing with it. Sure wish we knew from where and at what time the download occurs.

The learning curve is enormous. There are so many things you can do with the TV guide that learning all the ways to record, skip, drag, modify listings, schedules and on and on has taken me 3 days.

The remote's buttons are extremely indistinguishable and numerous. You will need some light in the room in order to use the remote. Backlighting would have been helpful.

My biggest negative is that there is no simultaneous composite or S-Video when one is watching through RGBHV, Y,Pr,Pb, or DIV. This means that if you want to watch DTV on a non-HDTV set, you have to change the output selection, aspect ratio, and viewing mode. On my DTV100 I push one button to change its output from 1080i to 480i. Here I have to go through countless button pushes and menu settings. Bad decision LG!!!!!

Programming this machine to record is a real adventure. Would have been nice if they had included a Day, Hour, Ch, and speed setting like every VCR in the world uses. Here you have to go through TV Guide listings that seem to go on forever.

It will record only 8 hour of HDTV. Wish I could record a whole week. AFAIK you can not change recording quality for Digital channels, only analog. 8 hours just is not enough if you like to watch on the weekends.

Summary:

It is a great HDTV STB--Great capture and picture. The TV Guide recording system is terrible. The listings may be interesting for some but frankly I find it a pain in the but. The omission of a simultaneous or at least 1 button switch-able S-Video is unpardonable. Sure you can get there but wow, what a nightmare.

Art Neill
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post #249 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 05:39 PM
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Art,

I agree with most of your points.

As to recording setup, have you tried the VCR+ button? You CAN set recordings as with a VCR. (You don't need the VCR+ codes, which is misleading.)

Recording time for HD is supposed to be about 12 hours with an empty disk. This assumes about 10GB per one hour of recording. However, I find that actual recordings of one hour shows take 7 to 8.5 MB each, which would give about 14 hours total.

The only suggestion I can offer about changing outputs easily is to incorporate a universal remote in your system. You can then program macros to do the job.

The tuner sensitivity IS great. I can use only indoor antennas and the 3410A doubled the number of stations I can get. Also, contrary to some comments here, the tuner has eliminated multipath dropouts on my previously most problematic station.

I think LG wanted to keep the manual as simple as possible, but we really did need MORE information than it contains.

Phil
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post #250 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 05:42 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Dan Kolton
I also understand that there is only about a 30 second window for the setup and programming to stay resident if a power outage occurs (not unusual in my area). So if one is gone for a while and the power drops out for over 30 sec., one has nothing recorded beyond the time of drop-out.

Dan,

This is disturbing. I know that power often goes out here, usually for only a few minutes.

Have you confirmed this behavior? I don't want to try it myself now that I'm finally getting caught up with Guide info.

Phil
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post #251 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 05:58 PM
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Phil,

I'm not planning to try it either, but I got the info from an LG Customer Service person at their 800 number. He said that power off for over 30 sec. woul require running complete Setup again.

Dan
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post #252 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 06:07 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Dan Kolton
Phil,

I'm not planning to try it either, but I got the info from an LG Customer Service person at their 800 number. He said that power off for over 30 sec. woul require running complete Setup again.

Well he is completely wrong. That is a totally untrue statement.
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post #253 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 06:16 PM
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KornerKlub said:
Well he is completely wrong. That is a totally untrue statement.[/quote]

Please tell us what is correct: what happens if power goes off for more than 30 sec. (like maybe even several days)?

Dan
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post #254 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 08:13 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Dan Kolton
KornerKlub said:
Well he is completely wrong. That is a totally untrue statement.



Please tell us what is correct: what happens if power goes off for more than 30 sec. (like maybe even several days)?
[/quote]

Well, when I got home, my power was off for at least 45 minutes unitl it came back on. Nothing was effected. If it were to be off for a matter of days, the only thing lost would be missing guide downloads.
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post #255 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 08:36 PM
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UPDATE:!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's a serious problem in the HD RGBHV output. When the unit is set to output RGBHV at 1080i the video level changes with changes in the total brightness level of the scene. Visibly it looks lke someone is adjusting the brightness control. Looks like crushed blacks to incredibly detailed picture. It happens consistentlly. No it is not my momitor. I alternated this 1080i feed with one from my 4DTV/HDD200 also set at 1080i. The latter feed had no level changes. Please check your units operating in this mode. I observed this problem on all the CBS programs on Feb. 24th 8-11. It did not matter whether a 4x3 SD commercial was being broadcast in the 1080i feed or a real HD program was being broadcast. I'll call LG in the morning. Please tell me more about the reason that the units were opened in Texas. Mine arrived with no double boxing. Did the changes made in Texas include anything having to do with what I reported? Were all units modified. Guys there's something really wrong here.

Art Neill
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post #256 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 08:47 PM
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Is that happening on all channels, or just the CBS you described?
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post #257 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 08:55 PM
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Yes on all the networks. I just happened to be watching CBS most of the night. BTW, I have a DWIN Transcanner and HD700 in mint condition. Just to make sure, I'm purchasing anothe breakout cable tomorrow to see whether there might be a problem with the cable. BTW does anyone know what signal is on pin 15 on the RGBHV 15 pin connector?

Art Neill
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post #258 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 09:10 PM
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I don't have a cable box in my setup. I just plug the cable direct to the TV (and ReplayTV). I have heard that all the local HDTV stations are unscrambled in my area, so I would only need to get a cable box if I wanted HBO/Showtime or some other stations that are scrambled. I don't want any of the scrambled stuff, so if I tell the 3410 I have OTA and cable without a box (which is correct for my setup) will I still get the cable HDTV unscrambled stations in my guide? I hope a cable box isn't actually required to get cable quide info?

John


Quote:


Originally posted by BenSanford
That's not consistent with my experience. I first hooked up with OTA & Cable - telling it that I had Cable without a Box. In that situation it got the info for the digital OTA stations (but not analog OTA info), and the info for analog cable. Then I told it I had a cable box, and then it got the Cable box guide info and dropped the analog cable info. The pain for me is that once I told it I had cable it insists that everything expect digital OTA comes thro the cable box - which is a pain.

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post #259 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 10:01 PM
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I did not get mine in the guide, but they do come in. You will find them as you go channel by channel (basically after your regular cable ends, let's say 101-92). You may find additional channels by adding channels in the cadtv channel setup. And yes, tell it exactly what you have, you'll be ok.
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post #260 of 7201 Old 02-24-2004, 10:13 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MrHifi
UPDATE:!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's a serious problem in the HD RGBHV output.

This is not good news. I was ready to get one, and this sounds very bad. My main puorpose was to connect this to a CRT projector. Any reports from other FP CRT users are gladly welcome.
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post #261 of 7201 Old 02-25-2004, 01:12 AM
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Has anyone here thought that the unit could support more than 1 HDD?

Has anyone successfully recorded QAM-256 cable HD?rough DVI

And, does the unit support the JVC D-VHS and facilitate D-VHS through it's DVI outputs?

Murray Kerdman
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post #262 of 7201 Old 02-25-2004, 04:52 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mkerdman
..And, does the unit support the JVC D-VHS and facilitate D-VHS through it's DVI outputs?

Yes it does.
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post #263 of 7201 Old 02-25-2004, 05:04 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jcg
I don't have a cable box in my setup. I just plug the cable direct to the TV (and ReplayTV). I have heard that all the local HDTV stations are unscrambled in my area, so I would only need to get a cable box if I wanted HBO/Showtime or some other stations that are scrambled. I don't want any of the scrambled stuff, so if I tell the 3410 I have OTA and cable without a box (which is correct for my setup) will I still get the cable HDTV unscrambled stations in my guide? I hope a cable box isn't actually required to get cable quide info?

John

The guide data (which networks included) is different for each market. The guide only shows the network icon and not the channel number, so you can "point" it to any channel you want. Also, there are often multiple listing for ABC, NBC, etc (you'll see them in the guide editing section to activate). This allows you to simply let the first ABC listing map to the analog station and then add another AC listing mapped to the digital.
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post #264 of 7201 Old 02-25-2004, 06:11 AM
 
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I am just about to buy this recorder, but have a few questions which I didn't see in this thread fully answered(although with 14 pages, I might have missed it).

- What is the best price that folks are paying for this unit?(my local dealer asked me this question so that he could give me a good price on it)
- Can you set this unit up to JUST receive HDTV channels, and not analog or DTV channels from both your unscrampbled cable and OTA? Or, will it set up all the channels it can see and then require you to delete the 100 or so channels you don't want in the guide and in channel up/down?
- Has anyone reported not being able to get the guide when they just use OTA only?
- With almost all of my primary OTA HDTV stations multicasting, how does the quide handle that? Does it show 2 of the same listings(one HDTV and one upconverted analog)? What about the two stations where I have different listings for subchannels -1 and -2?
- It HAS been verified that you can offload the unit to the Mits 2000u DVHS via firewire.. right?
- Has anyone other than one person had problems with the RGBHV output at 1080i? Is anyone using it without problems?

That's all the questions I can think of right now... thanks for your help!
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post #265 of 7201 Old 02-25-2004, 06:27 AM
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MrHiFi,
I was seeing something similar to what you were seeing, but only with NTSC material. Some stations would behave great but others would act very badly - as you said the brightness going from good detail to an almost 'solarized' look (crushed blacks?). However, other stations have been rock solid and I've never seen it on digital material.

I've recorderd and watched several hours of digital content (both SD and HD) over the RBG connection and not seen the problem. One thing you might try is to record stuff and see if this makes a difference.

I switch between a smaller FPTV that uses RBG input and a projector that uses the component output. I am now mainly using the using component output and never see the flickering or brightness changes I was seeing with the NTSC material.
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post #266 of 7201 Old 02-25-2004, 06:30 AM
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merc:

I can only answer a few of your questions, so here it goes.

I have not seen this unit for less than $999--using a search on Google.

I can offload to a JVC 30000, don't know about the Mits.

My unit seems to work just fine using the VGA RGB connector to my plasma.

FYI, there seems to be a popping/audio dropout issue with some processors/receivers. If it is possible, I would suggest you purchase from a B&M store to ease return/replacement if required. Oops, you did say your local dealer, didn't you. Sorry.
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post #267 of 7201 Old 02-25-2004, 06:40 AM
 
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Thanks kkoenning!

I currently get some dropout and popping(occasional lip sync too) on OTA HD via my Samsung T165 with our ABC-DT station. It seems to pop whenever one commercial stops and another starts almost as though the digital audio lock was lost. These problems only happen on ABC-DT though, so I assumed the problem was not the problem of my pre-pro?

Anyone else?
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post #268 of 7201 Old 02-25-2004, 06:46 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by KornerKlub
Please tell us what is correct: what happens if power goes off for more than 30 sec. (like maybe even several days)?

Well, when I got home, my power was off for at least 45 minutes unitl it came back on. Nothing was effected. If it were to be off for a matter of days, the only thing lost would be missing guide downloads. [/b][/quote]

KornerKlub,

Thanks for that VERY comforting information. I feel much better knowing that this is from a real situation, not theoretical. Knowing the history of our power company, I expect also to find out for myself rather soon.

Dan
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post #269 of 7201 Old 02-25-2004, 06:47 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by PhillyC
jcg,

Here's what I've learned (I think) after much experimentation. Others here will correct me if I'm not quite right.

The 3410A asks you if you have cable - yes or no. If no, you can ONLY tune OTA channels and the Guide comes from OTA. If yes, you can tune OTA and cable and digital cable, and the Guide info for cable and OTA comes from cable. Confused yet?

In order to get Guide info when you have cable, you MUST connect your cable service and the 3410A in one of the three ways shown in the manual.

Now here's where I'm using my powers of deduction because I can't actually try some things until I switch to Comcast. I have a cable box with only RF out. It is only for unscrambling premium channels. I can bypass the box and watch all other cable channels. But --- bypassing the box gets NO Guide info. For some reason, it seems the Guide info can only be obtained when the signal comes through the cable box. It also appears that even if your cable box has an RF Loop Out, you MUST also connect the box's AV Out jacks to the AV1 In jacks on the 3410A in order to get Guide info.

Going back to your specific question, I had the box set for OTA only and got OTA Guide info. Then I switched to cable and lost all the OTA Guide info. (And, because I bypassed the cable box, could get no Guide whatsoever.) So I think you can just say yes to cable and you will get everything you need if you are hooked up properly.


I'm almost positive the guide info comes from Channel 11 in Chicago. Are you able to receive channel 11 without the cable box? Also, make sure you keep the number of active channels in the guide under 50. Anything greater, causes the update process to take longer.
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post #270 of 7201 Old 02-25-2004, 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by 2muchtv
I'm almost positive the guide info comes from Channel 11 in Chicago. Are you able to receive channel 11 without the cable box? Also, make sure you keep the number of active channels in the guide under 50. Anything greater, causes the update process to take longer.

I'm set for OTA only and am getting the Guide OK now. I have just 8 channels in the Guide, but it looks like it will take a total of 5 days to catch up and fill in all the Guide info. KornerKlub explained the process earlier in this thread, and it is working exactly as he said it would.

Interestingly, last night my indoor antenna was positioned where it couldn't get a picture for channel 11 (PBS), but the Guide info was downloaded anyway. Maybe a signal too weak for a picture can still get Guide info?

Is the internal operation of the Guide download a big secret? It would be nice to know exactly how it's supposed to act and when and with what channel(s).

Yes, when I was set to cable, I could get channel 11 just fine. But no Guide. None. That's why I'm just going OTA until I switch to Comcast.

Phil
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