How to record via IEEE 1394 (Firewire) to Windows XP - Page 188 - AVS Forum
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post #5611 of 6043 Old 05-17-2011, 09:16 PM
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Ok, so I decided "analog is better than nothing," so I hooked my computer up to the dvr the same way I used to hook my computer up to my VCR: I plugged a S-VHS wire into the back of my dvr, along with RCA cables for the audio. The other ends of these go into my mini dv camcorder, and then I run a FireWire cable from the camcorder to the computer. Following so far?

Then I open Adobe Premiere and capture.

But, of course, there's a problem: when I burn the captured clips to DVD, it plays back not only letterboxed on top & bottom, but on the sides as well!

WTF?????

I am ready to never care to get hooked on a show again. I've been making DVDs of my old home movies for nearly a decade now and nothing like this has ever happened. Once again, my head is firmly banged against the floor!

- Joe
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post #5612 of 6043 Old 05-17-2011, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroJow View Post

But, if course, there's a problem: when I burn the captured clips to DVD, it plays back not only letterboxed on top & bottom, but on the sides as well!

S-video is an analog connection method that supports only 480i 4:3 content. If you transmit 16:9 content across an S-video cable, you will get letterboxed 4:3.

Letterboxed 4:3 presented on a 4:3 screen has black bars on top and bottom. But letterboxed 4:3 presented on a 16:9 screen (or burned onto a 16:9 DVD) will have black bars on left and right as well... since it's a 4:3 image placed onto a 16:9 display. This is "postage stamp".

Unless your capture software or DVD recording machinery "zooms" that letterboxed 4:3 image, expanding it appropriately in all four directions, what you're seeing is exactly what you should see because of your use of S-video to carry 16:9 content.
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post #5613 of 6043 Old 05-21-2011, 08:52 PM
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I've put together a new version of the cable box FireWire .MSI installation package. This version properly installs the Legacy FireWire driver on Windows 7 SP1. It should also continue to work for future service packs and Windows 8, unless Microsoft omits the Legacy FireWire driver altogether or dumps 32-bit and has Windows 8 be 64-bit only.

I've also included two freeware utilities, MPEG2Repair and Mpg2Cut2. MPEG2Repair is a tool that scrubs MPEG2 video files, correcting errors. Mpg2Cut2 is a simple MPEG2 editor that can be used to remove ads from your video files. These tools are not nearly as easy-to-use or reliable as some of the payware tools (VideoReDo is my favorite tool), but they're free and can get the job done as long as the video file is fairly small; There can be problems when editing files larger than 1 GB (I tend to see MPEG2Repair crap out after about 1.5 GB)...perhaps using a file-splitting tool could work around that reasonably well.

There's really no reason that anybody using v1 or v2 needs to update to v3 unless you want the MPEG2Repair or Mpg2Cut2 tools (which can also be separately downloaded from videohelp.com).

Anyways, here's the link for version 3 of the cable box FireWire driver package:
Cable_STB_FireWire_Capture_v3_for_32-bit_Win2000_XP_2003_Vista_Win7_2008.msi
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post #5614 of 6043 Old 05-31-2011, 09:46 AM
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Allrighty, I'm back with some more stupid questions. I really don't even have anything on my DVR that I'm desperate to back up at this point - I'm just frustrated with the fact I'm not being ALLOWED to back up recordings if I WANTED to.

So let me see if I understand this correctly:

Time Warner Cable, is encrypting the digital output from my DVR on certain stations. Therefore, any recordings I make using the firewire-to-PC method linked to in the first post of this thread, are useless.

DSperber suggests I pick up a D-VHS to record hi-def material I wish to keep. To me, this insinuates that the encryptions are null & void when recording to tape. True? The encryptions only come into play when transferring from DVR to PC?

Well, I don't have a D-VHS, but I DO have a Sony DV-CAM deck. Will this do in lieu of a D-VHS?

I tried plugging the firewire into the back of my DVR and then inserting the other end into the "HDV/DV" port in the back of the DV-CAM deck. Although the DVR turned itself off and on again (like it did when I tried plugging it into my computer,) the DV-CAM deck did not receive any picture or audio. I futzed around with it for a while but never got anything.

Here's the back of the DV-CAM deck and the back of the DVR. Any suggestions on what ports / wires I should be using here?





I'm going to make this work or die trying.

Thanks for everything!

- Joe
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post #5615 of 6043 Old 05-31-2011, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroJow View Post

Allrighty, I'm back with some more stupid questions. I really don't even have anything on my DVR that I'm desperate to back up at this point - I'm just frustrated with the fact I'm not being ALLOWED to back up recordings if I WANTED to.

So let me see if I understand this correctly:

Time Warner Cable, is encrypting the digital output from my DVR on certain stations. Therefore, any recordings I make using the firewire-to-PC method linked to in the first post of this thread, are useless.

DSperber suggests I pick up a D-VHS to record hi-def material I wish to keep. To me, this insinuates that the encryptions are null & void when recording to tape. True? The encryptions only come into play when transferring from DVR to PC?

Well, I don't have a D-VHS, but I DO have a Sony DV-CAM deck. Will this do in lieu of a D-VHS?

I tried plugging the firewire into the back of my DVR and then inserting the other end into the "HDV/DV" port in the back of the DV-CAM deck. Although the DVR turned itself off and on again (like it did when I tried plugging it into my computer,) the DV-CAM deck did not receive any picture or audio. I futzed around with it for a while but never got anything.

Here's the back of the DV-CAM deck and the back of the DVR. Any suggestions on what ports / wires I should be using here?





I'm going to make this work or die trying.

Thanks for everything!

- Joe

No-the DV-CAM deck will not work. A DVHS deck will.
A DVHS deck can record anything off your cable company DVR so long as the content is flagged either copy freely or copy once.
If the content is flagged copy freely, you will be able to archive to pc/mac using capdvhs/avcvideocap or a DVHS deck and will be sent un-encrypted from the DVR to whatever you want to store it on.
If it is flagged copy once and sent to a DVHS deck, it will sent and stored encrypted on the DVHS tape and will be marked as copy no more on the tape to prevent you from making additional copies.
You will not be able to capture copy one material on a computer, because the stream is encrypted by the DVR and no decryption keys are avaliable to decrypt nor authenticate a connection between the devices.

Think of it this way.
There are copy flags embedded in the firewire stream packets which control how many copies you can make of the content.
There is also encryption which is used by the cable company for service entitlement purposes (which channels you are subscribed to) as well as to enfore the meaning of the copy flags. Theoretically they could send a copy once stream un-encrypted to your sink device, but if it is not encrypted and they dont want you making any more copies, you could just store the packets and offline strip the packet copy flags or replace the flags with copy freely. You can graphically visualize it by thinking of the contents as packets of data:

TS Packet-188 Bytes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0 | Receiving Address | Copy Control Flags | Content Format Identifier(MPEG2 TS)|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 | MPEG2 data |
2 | |
3 | |
4 | |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 | CRC (Error correction) |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Line 0: Un-Encrypted: Tells the packet where it is going (your DVHS deck or computer) as well as what type of data is in lines 1-4 and what you can do with the content.
Line 1-4: This is the actual video data which can be encrypted or un-encrypted depending on what the cable company/content providers are prepared to allow you to do with it.

Its not as simple as this but conceptually you get the idea.
Hope this helps.
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post #5616 of 6043 Old 05-31-2011, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

A DVHS deck can record anything off your cable company DVR so long as the content is flagged either copy freely or copy once.

... since the DVHS deck is 5C-compliant, established during the firewire handshake between the DVR and VCR, the DVR will send the data.

The DV-CAM deck is not 5C-compliant, so the DVR will not send anything to it over firewire.

Them's the rules of 5C.


Quote:
You will not be able to capture copy one material on a computer, because the stream is encrypted by the DVR and no decryption keys are available to decrypt nor authenticate a connection between the devices.

I believe I had a very informative discussion on the subject of encryption/decryption with a super-knowledgeable forum member, GSR, back in November 2010. This discussion (which got technical) pertained to the Ceton 4-tuner cablecard enabled product, as well as many related subjects such as protected vs. unprotected WTV recordings from Windows Media Center, DRM, encryption/decryption and where it occurs and the keys involved, transfers over firewire to PC vs. 5C-compliant DVHS VCRs, etc.

The Ceton thread is very long, but the particular subject of 5C-protection vs. the separate subject of encryption/decryption and exactly WHERE it occurs, starts at about this point in that thread and runs for a few pages.

Essentially, the notion of 5C copy protection is completely independent of encryption/decryption. And it's possible to have either one or both involved with a particular program.

GSR's explanation is that during playback by the tuner in the DVR, the cablecard in the DVR decrypts the original program encrypted data which was written to the hard drive when recorded, if necessary. The same happens "live", if no recording is involved. The same thing happens in Win7 WMC, reading encrypted WTV recordings. The cablecard present in the Ceton card does the decryption required during original arrival of encrypted programs either for "live" TV watching or for recording. If necessary, Win7 re-encrypts the program with a new DRM key for recording to "copy protected" WTV format. For Win7 WMC recordings to WTV, the original program content gets decrypted by the cablecard, and then re-encrypted by Win7 using a sophisticated key unique to that PC and Win7 and point-in-time.

And, according to him, the data stream sent out over firewire from DVR to 5C-compliant JVC DVHS VCR is similarly decrypted (if it needed to be) but retains its 5C copy-protection flags.

When it arrives at the JVC DVHS VCR, it is re-encrypted for recording to tape (if it needed to be), using a new encryption key unique to JVC (or maybe to the entire product world of DVHS VCR's). So while this recording can be played back (by decrypting, using this key) by other JVC DVHS machines (and perhaps Mitsubishi DVHS machines as well, if the key one available to all 5C-compliant DVHS VCR products when they were still being manufactured), it cannot be played back by my Panasonic PV-HD1000 DVHS VCR because it is NOT 5C-compliant and is incapable of decrypting.

The discussion continued on to WMC, DRM for WTV, whether the programs come to you encrypted or not from the cable company, if they're flagged copy once, etc. If marked copy-once, Win7 Media Center will encrypt them with a key that's tied to that PC so they can only be played on that PC. So the WTV file will have the 5C flag set to copy once and the file will also be encrypted using a unique very sophisticated time-based encryption key tied to that PC, and to that particular installed version of Win7.

Again... it was a very interesting and VERY informative discussion. I had always thought the data transmitted over firewire was still the original encryption, and that the decryption key was sent from DVR to VCR. GSR stated this was not true, and that the data sent out over firewire was first decrypted by the DVR using its own encrypt/decrypt key, and then re-encrypted by the VCR using a new encrypt/decrypt key. This governs what VCRs can actually play back the recording.

The 5C copy-once flag was sent as well, and recorded as well by the VCR, and controls whether or not the recording can further be copied from VCR#1 to VCR#2 or some other recording device.

Anyway, the important thing is that because the JVC DVHS VCR's are 5C-compliant, the DVR will send it program data over firewire for recording to DVHS tape, no matter whether copy-once or copy-freely. And all of these programs can be played back by the VCR to HDTV from this DVHS tape recording.
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post #5617 of 6043 Old 05-31-2011, 02:06 PM
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Holy Bejeezus! Things have gotten a lot more complicated than I remember them being just a few short years ago! It used to be, if a friend had a question about authoring or burning a DVD - or ANYTHING involving their TV setup - I'd be the one they'd call for info! Now I'd be afraid to even attempt an answer!

A friend suggested that I pick up a "Tuner Card" for my PC and record shows that way instead of recording them to the DVR and then to the PC. Before I go jumping off that bridge, should I assume the copy protection would affect recordings made via the tuner card, too?

In the end, all I want to do is to be able to record shows and burn them to a DVD for either my own personal library, or to make a copy for my dad. I'm not trying to author HD blu-ray discs to market illegally in China. To be able to have a couple discs which contain the most recent season of The Simpsons and then replace those discs with the official release when that comes out in 10 years (to qualify that statement so people do not think I am exaggerating, they've been releasing seasons of The Simpsons at an approximate rate of 1 season per year. They've released 13 seasons so far and yet they just wrapped their 22nd season on the air.)

Another friend suggested I just download the shows via "Torrents" but I know that IS illegal, so I would like to avoid that... but it brings up another question. How are these people recording the shows and uploading them if the broadcast feeds are copy-protected?

- Joe
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post #5618 of 6043 Old 05-31-2011, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroJow View Post

A friend suggested that I pick up a "Tuner Card" for my PC and record shows that way instead of recording them to the DVR and then to the PC. Before I go jumping off that bridge, should I assume the copy protection would affect recordings made via the tuner card, too?

Depends on the type of tuner card you get, and what you want to record.

If you get a tuner card that is fed from an off-air antenna picking up the copy-freely local network broadcast digital OTA ATSC signal, then there's zero copy protections considerations at all. You can use a variety of TV/DVR software products that run on WinXP, Vista and Win7 to watch/record. You can create SD/DVD's (obviously not the original HD) and you can also create BluRay discs (pure digital copy of the original OTA ATSC copy-freely content).

But if you want to work with cable channels as your source, then you have lots to consider. In particular, Cablelabs currently has only agreed to provide copy-once/encrypted content to Win7 running Windows Media Center and the Ceton 4-tuner card (which requires an M-Card cablecard be inserted).

And if your cable system delivers channels as copy-once, then you will not be able to do anything but record/watch them on that PC using WMC, or deliver them to a WMC extender/HDTV node elsewhere in your house via your home LAN. You will NOT be able to even read those WTV recordings (out of WMC) with any other software other than WMC... you can't edit, you can't burn to DVD/BluRay, you can't do anything but watch using WMC. And you can only do even just that if you have a Ceton card and get an M-Card from your cable system.

On the other hand, if your cable system delivers channels as copy-freely, now you can do whatever you want with those WTV recordings.


Quote:


In the end, all I want to do is to be able to record shows and burn them to a DVD for either my own personal library, or to make a copy for my dad.

Speak to the hand. It is the "industry" that has demanded DRM and copy protection for their digital content.

It's only because Microsoft and Ceton agreed to the requirements of Cablelabs that we can even get copy-once content now handled by WMC in Win7. It's just SERIOUSLY PROTECTED!!


Quote:


I'm not trying to author HD blu-ray discs to market illegally in China.

I understand.

But if you want to work in the digital domain, and have 100% digitally perfect copies of copy-once 720p/1080i HDTV digital content for posterity, you'll have to use DVHS VCR's and DVHS tape as your only outboard storage facility available. That's it. And you'll have to go from Motorola DVR (and even then, not a DCX model but only a 2-port DCT or DCH model, since Motorola or the chipset provider broke the firewire interface in the latest DCX family when they went to a new chipset in these latest 1-port DCX models).

Otherwise, if you want to work with down-converted 480i SD output (via the S-video output on your DVR) or delivered non-digitally over component video to a recording device that accepts analog via component video to burn DVDs, well that's ok too.

The DRM protections, encryptions, copy-once/copy-freely issues, these are only pertinent to trying to work in the digital domain and retain 100% perfect copies of the digital original. If you're willing to give up that perfection and go with analog, then "the suits" will let you do what you want.


Quote:


but it brings up another question. How are these people recording the shows and uploading them if the broadcast feeds are copy-protected?

Analog recordings via component video, I would imagine.

Or else they're lucky enough to be on a cable system which does not mark basic cable channels copy-once.

For example, I believe FIOS doesn't do that (yet) and basic cable channels are still copy-freely. On the other hand my own TWC/LA system marks everything other than local OTA network channels as copy-once.

As far as how are premium movie channels recorded (for torrents), well I don't know since I would think that ALL delivery systems would have these programs copy-once/encrypted.
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post #5619 of 6043 Old 05-31-2011, 09:18 PM
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Very interesting discussion.

Quote:


but it brings up another question. How are these people recording the shows and uploading them if the broadcast feeds are copy-protected?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Analog recordings via component video, I would imagine.
Or else they're lucky enough to be on a cable system which does not mark basic cable channels copy-once.

Yeah, I think that accounts for most of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

As far as how are premium movie channels recorded (for torrents), well I don't know since I would think that ALL delivery systems would have these programs copy-once/encrypted.

I suspect that most of the Pay-Per-View and premium channel stuff is also recorded using Component video and a Hauppaugge or Black Magic capture device. This is why some cable/sat systems are considering using SOC (Selective Output Control) to disable Component video for certain types of content.

However, SOC won't stop dedicated people from copying stuff; the HDCP copy protection can be removed from HDMI (see Moome Mux-HD) which allows you to use HDMI capture cards such as the Hauppaugge Colossus to record...it's not a 100% perfect copy, as there is MPEG4 compression applied, but it is really, really good (and stays in the digital domain the entire time). This method renders SOC pointless (unless the point is to just piss off legit customers who have a need for Component video).
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post #5620 of 6043 Old 06-09-2011, 09:47 PM
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I've put together a new version of the cable box FireWire .MSI installation package. This version properly installs the Legacy FireWire driver on Windows 7 SP1. It should also continue to work for future service packs and Windows 8, unless Microsoft omits the Legacy FireWire driver altogether or dumps 32-bit and has Windows 8 be 64-bit only.

I've also included two freeware utilities, MPEG2Repair and Mpg2Cut2. MPEG2Repair is a tool that scrubs MPEG2 video files, correcting errors. Mpg2Cut2 is a simple MPEG2 editor that can be used to remove ads from your video files. These tools are not nearly as easy-to-use or reliable as some of the payware tools (VideoReDo is my favorite tool), but they're free and can get the job done as long as the video file is fairly small; There can be problems when editing files larger than 1 GB (I tend to see MPEG2Repair crap out after about 1.5 GB)...perhaps using a file-splitting tool could work around that reasonably well.

There's really no reason that anybody using v1 or v2 needs to update to v3 unless you want the MPEG2Repair or Mpg2Cut2 tools (which can also be separately downloaded from videohelp.com).

Anyways, here's the link for version 3 of the cable box FireWire driver package:
Cable_STB_FireWire_Capture_v3_for_32-bit_Win2000_XP_2003_Vista_Win7_2008.msi

Thanks for putting the driver package together, I'm using it on my W7 32bit machine along with VLC and CapDVHS. I'm in LA also and just got the DCX3200 last week through TWC. The channels I do get like Hallmark HD the recordings come out pretty clean and glitch free via firewire.
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post #5621 of 6043 Old 06-09-2011, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks for putting the driver package together, I'm using it on my W7 32bit machine along with VLC and CapDVHS. I'm in LA also and just got the DCX3200 last week through TWC. The channels I do get like Hallmark HD the recordings come out pretty clean and glitch free via firewire.

TWC/LA??? DCX* box???

"Pretty clean and glitch free via firewire"?? That would be amazing.

Please tell us what software and firmware versions are on your DCX box? (press MENU twice to get to the main menu, navigate to Setup, navigate to Cable Box Setup, select the Configuration button to display both software and firmware versions)

The entire newest 1-port DCX* family of products (and Verizon FIOS versions of this newest 1-port family as well) has been notorious for Motorola/Broadcom "breaking" the firewire interface that had been working fine in the earlier 2-port DCT* and DCH* models. So, your account of "success" recording successfully to anything via firewire... be it a PC or DVHS VCR... would certainly be a likely first.

Also, virtually every cable channel delivered by TWC/LA is marked "copy protected" (i.e. copy-once) and you will NOT be able to record it. Local OTA networks are not protected, and a very few cable channels are also not for some reason not protected. But virtually every other channel is protected, and you won't be able to record them.

Perhaps TWC/LA has finally rolled out a new version of firmware and/or A28 software, but I wasn't aware that they had.


Again... can you please say what firmware and software versions are running in your DCX3200 (non-DVR) STB?

Is this a standalone non-DVR DCX3200 that you got, because you have no interest in a DVR (i.e. DCX3400)? Is this a DCX3200-M model, which is a "client" satellite box in a "whole house" implementation including a DCX3400-M or DCX3501-M box as your "server DVR"?

Honestly, I'm very very interested in why firewire recording to PC works "successfully" for you (I'm in TWC/LA as well).
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post #5622 of 6043 Old 06-10-2011, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

TWC/LA??? DCX* box???

"Pretty clean and glitch free via firewire"?? That would be amazing.

Please tell us what software and firmware versions are on your DCX box? (press MENU twice to get to the main menu, navigate to Setup, navigate to Cable Box Setup, select the Configuration button to display both software and firmware versions)

The entire newest 1-port DCX* family of products (and Verizon FIOS versions of this newest 1-port family as well) has been notorious for Motorola/Broadcom "breaking" the firewire interface that had been working fine in the earlier 2-port DCT* and DCH* models. So, your account of "success" recording successfully to anything via firewire... be it a PC or DVHS VCR... would certainly be a likely first.

Also, virtually every cable channel delivered by TWC/LA is marked "copy protected" (i.e. copy-once) and you will NOT be able to record it. Local OTA networks are not protected, and a very few cable channels are also not for some reason not protected. But virtually every other channel is protected, and you won't be able to record them.

Perhaps TWC/LA has finally rolled out a new version of firmware and/or A28 software, but I wasn't aware that they had.


Again... can you please say what firmware and software versions are running in your DCX3200 (non-DVR) STB?

Is this a standalone non-DVR DCX3200 that you got, because you have no interest in a DVR (i.e. DCX3400)? Is this a DCX3200-M model, which is a "client" satellite box in a "whole house" implementation including a DCX3400-M or DCX3501-M box as your "server DVR"?

Honestly, I'm very very interested in why firewire recording to PC works "successfully" for you (I'm in TWC/LA as well).

The sw 78.44-a28p0-2.0908.r4. fw 22.65 I'm in WLA and a former Adelphia subscriber now TWC. I turned in all my DCT's a couple a years ago when they completely disabled the firewire ports. I put up a big stink about this and a technician actually came out to talk to me. I told him what you are doing is against FCC regulations and I demanded them to write a firmware to re enable the ports. Of course the guy just shrugged and said it can't be done. I reported this to the FCC and told them what TWC was doing back then. At one time I was able to record everything except on demand channels back in the day of Adelphia.

Anyway the DCX box I have is just the plain 3200 HD box going to my W7 PC via firewire and using VLC/CapDVHS with no issues with either gui. Over here in WLA I get very few cable stations to record as you mentioned, off the top I do get NGCHD, Hallmark HD, ESPNHD 1&2 and a few others as well as the local networks. I recorded three episodes of Frasier tonight and they all came out clean using CapDVHS I ran a straight hr in a half of non stop recording with no ill effects. I also read somewhere in this thread someone was having the dreaded error dialog pop up after you exit CapDVHS as I was to when I first ran the gui in W7. Ez fix is to just r click on the shortcut and run it in compatibility mode under XP service pack 3 and voila! no more dialog box.
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post #5623 of 6043 Old 06-10-2011, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

The sw 78.44-a28p0-2.0908.r4. fw 22.65 I'm in WLA and a former Adelphia subscriber now TWC. I turned in all my DCT's a couple a years ago when they completely disabled the firewire ports.

I didn't know that the West LA former Adelphia area used Motorola DCT boxes. I have a friend up in Oxnard, which was also a former Adelphia area, and they used the BMC boxes (i.e. Moxi), which didn't have firewire ports.

Anyway, I am in an area that was formerly Communicom -> ATTBI -> Comcast -> TWC. Ever since Comcast I've always had Motorola boxes of the DCT/DCH/DCX family (first STB only, and later a true DVR), and the firewire ports have always been enabled on all boxes. And they've always worked until the DCX group of DVRs. Never been disabled. I'm quite surprised you say that Adelphia actually went out of their way to disable the firewire ports.


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At one time I was able to record everything except on demand channels back in the day of Adelphia.

That was originally true with Comcast and now TWC/LA as well, up until about a year ago when suddenly it all changed.


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Anyway the DCX box I have is just the plain 3200 HD box going to my W7 PC via firewire and using VLC/CapDVHS with no issues with either gui.

I genuinely find this remarkable. You are so far the only report of "success" using firewire on a DCX-family product, but then your unit is a STB-only, and not a DVR. I wonder if that's really relevant... which it does seem to be, I guess.

It must be, because the A28 software you're running is the same original release (actually from 2009) one they've had out now for about a year when they first started rolling out A28 upgrades in about February 2010.

The 22.65 firmware you have is also about 9 months old, and is the same one firmware upgrade TWC/LA did roll out since their original 22.37 which got pushed with the original A28 software.

So, none of this is different from any other TWC/LA boxes, and in fact it's much older than Comcast areas throughout the country which have much newer firmware (e.g. 22.92, or even 24.xx in the latest DCX35xx-M models). And the A28 software in Comcast areas is as of around July 2010, which fixes all the known user-interface bugs which were reported in the original A28 (and which we still have here in TWC/LA).

You're sure you've got a STB-only, right? No DVR? I'm just surprised that the same software and firmware is present in both DCX3200 and DCX3400, one of which is a STB and the other of which is a DVR.

Anyway, more amazingly... for some reason the firewire recording for you is essentially "glitch-free". I assure you this is NOT the experience the rest of us have had with DCX hardware, both trying to record to PC as well as trying to record to DVHS VCR.

We (in this forum) were told by a very knowledgeable member that it was the chipset change Motorola went to (i.e. Broadcom) for the DCX product that was responsible for the loss of reliable firewire functionality. The one firewire port in the DCX3400 units was not disabled, but the firmware support for the firewire interface was apparently programmed poorly by Broadcom/Motorola, and that's what caused the effective loss of usability. So unless there's maybe the original chipset still in the DCX3200 STB units (is it also only one firewire port, or is it still two like the DCT/DCH boxes?), different from what is in the DCX3400 DVR units, I don't know how else to explain your success.

Very surprising and interesting, I must say.
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post #5624 of 6043 Old 06-10-2011, 09:40 AM
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Anyway, I am in an area that was formerly Communicom -> ATTBI -> Comcast -> TWC. Ever since Comcast I've always had Motorola boxes of the DCT/DCH/DCX family (first STB only, and later a true DVR), and the firewire ports have always been enabled on all boxes. And they've always worked until the DCX group of DVRs. Never been disabled. I'm quite surprised you say that Adelphia actually went out of their way to disable the firewire ports.

Actually it was TWC that did the nasty on us here in WLA, Adelphia was always good to us. My DCT recordings were glitching so bad that I wasn't even attempting to record back then. Then TWC just piped down their fw I remember the time it was 1:30am and that was the fw that killed 1394 ports on my DCT box. At that point I decided to just get rid of the DCT's altogether and went straight to cable only no box just a straight hook up to the QAM tuner on the TV.

I'll take some snaps of my setup I'm watching TV on my monitor as I type this using VLC.





Well since my high speed internet deal was about to expire I called TWC and asked to go back to basic then she threw me the Variety package with the HD box and get to keep my high speed connection for like three dollars less. That's why I have DCX3200 non dvr HD box. I didn't bother to hook up the firewire connection until I was reading the manual/specs on that box and according to the manual it's 1394 ports are active and supposed to be working. I just did this more out of curiosity to see what would happen, I then dl'd the driver package for my PC and just started up the gui's and it just worked.

The VLC version I'm running is 1.1.7 the latest VLC crashes my system so I reverted back to what was working.


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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

I genuinely find this remarkable. You are so far the only report of "success" using firewire on a DCX-family product, but then your unit is a STB-only, and not a DVR. I wonder if that's really relevant... which it does seem to be, I guess.

Yes just the STB only what issues are you guys having? If you could give me a recap with the issues without me having to go back and read the threads I would be much obliged.
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post #5625 of 6043 Old 06-10-2011, 01:11 PM
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That seems to be "normal". I get the error on Vista too.

R click the shortcut and run in compatibility mode XP SP3 problem solved.
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post #5626 of 6043 Old 06-10-2011, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

I'll take some snaps of my setup I'm watching TV on my monitor as I type this using VLC.


You appear to be watching the 480i SD channel (67) for Comedy Central, not the 1080i HD channel (497).

That is a VERY VERY different situation, both on the copy protection aspect as well as on the firewire/streaming recording aspect. I haven't checked, but I'm sure the 480i down-converted channels are not marked copy-once as the 720p/1080i HD channels are.

Again, just like the "suits" don't care if you record anything analog (including HD channels, down-converted and center-sliced to 480i from the original 720p/1080i content) for output via S-video say or even component video versions of HD channels, they don't care about 480i channels and SD 4:3 content in the first place. They only care about the 100% digitally perfect copies of 720p/1080i HD 16:9 programs which could end up on BluRay, as digitally perfect copies.

Now, as to whether the firewire-out performance is very different on 480i channels vs. 720p/1080i channels on these DCX boxes, well I don't know from firsthand experience. I've never bothered to record an SD program using firewire. I'm only concerned with 720p/1080i programs via firewire.


I'm certain you would not be able to watch 497 using VLC, as all of its content is copy-protected and encrypted.
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post #5627 of 6043 Old 06-10-2011, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

That's why I have DCX3200 non dvr HD box. I didn't bother to hook up the firewire connection until I was reading the manual/specs on that box and according to the manual it's 1394 ports are active and supposed to be working.

Is that a casual "portS" as in "plural" TWO ports (as the older DCT/DCX family of products did), or does your DCX3200 actually only have one firewire port (as the current DCX34/35 family DVR products do)?
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post #5628 of 6043 Old 06-10-2011, 04:34 PM
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You appear to be watching the 480i SD channel (67) for Comedy Central, not the 1080i HD channel (497).

That is a VERY VERY different situation, both on the copy protection aspect as well as on the firewire/streaming recording aspect. I haven't checked, but I'm sure the 480i down-converted channels are not marked copy-once as the 720p/1080i HD channels are.

Again, just like the "suits" don't care if you record anything analog (including HD channels, down-converted and center-sliced to 480i from the original 720p/1080i content) for output via S-video say or even component video versions of HD channels, they don't care about 480i channels and SD 4:3 content in the first place. They only care about the 100% digitally perfect copies of 720p/1080i HD 16:9 programs which could end up on BluRay, as digitally perfect copies.

Now, as to whether the firewire-out performance is very different on 480i channels vs. 720p/1080i channels on these DCX boxes, well I don't know from firsthand experience. I've never bothered to record an SD program using firewire. I'm only concerned with 720p/1080i programs via firewire.


I'm certain you would not be able to watch 497 using VLC, as all of its content is copy-protected and encrypted.

Most of the cable networks are flagged as you stated I haven't checked to see what HD channels I actually get I'll go through the line up tonight and jot down the HD channels that I do get which I know aint going to be diddly squat. Yes I meant single port for the DCX3200 sorry I got DCT side tracked. I could have sworn ESPN wasn't flagged but alas I was wrong can't get HD in VLC. So far it's just Hallmark HD, ION HD, Discovery HD and the local networks. As long as I can record Frasier on the Hall ch I'm good with what little scraps they toss nowa days....
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post #5629 of 6043 Old 06-13-2011, 09:43 AM
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Ok I went through the line up and this is what I'm able to record via firewire to the PC.

TWC WLA (Formerly Adelphia)

Digital Tier:
FX 106
A&E 112
CMT 121
TCM 127
Style 130
KTLA 139
Nick 185
DisW 186
DisXD 189
KCET 192
CSpan 201
Cspan2 202
CNN 206
Fox-N 207
NGC 215
ANIM-P 216
KABC-DT3 228
KOCE-DT4 238
KCETMHZ 239
KOCEOC 235
KOCEHD 204
KSCI-DT4 658
KSCI-DT5 695
KSCI-DT7 600

DIS-W 846
DISXDES 849
ESPN 861
ESPN2 862
ANIMW 870
TCM 876
CMTV-W 879
FOODW 889

HDTier:
CBS 402
NBC 404
KTLA 405
KDOC-DT 406
KABC 407
KOCEHD 408
KCAL 409
KPXN-ION 410
KTTV FOX 411
KCET 412
KCOP 413
TDC 418
ESPNNEWHD 426
HLMRKHD 477

Here's what my .inf's look like after installing TNO821's driver package. Just to let you know when I did this I didn't have any firewire plugged in to my PC when I loaded the drivers for DCX3200 HD box. So I didn't go through any wizard prompts with my W7 32bit sys. There were no residual files in my registry so it was basically a clean load. The only files I did delete were Tim Moores MCE drivers.
Edit: I forgot to mention I excluded shopping and Spanish channels.
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post #5630 of 6043 Old 06-13-2011, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

Ok I went through the line up and this is what I'm able to record via firewire to the PC
...

Good to know! Thanks for sharing that. So TWC is being super hardcore on the copy protection flag!

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Here's what my .inf's look like after installing TNO821's driver package. Just to let you know when I did this I didn't have any firewire plugged in to my PC when I loaded the drivers for DCX3200 HD box. So I didn't go through any wizard prompts with my W7 32bit sys. There were no residual files in my registry so it was basically a clean load.

Are you having any issues getting my .MSI package to install? I can't quite tell from your post whether there is an issue that you'd like me to address.

One thing I would like to improve is having the proper name display for the DCX cable boxes/DVR's instead of the generic "AV/C Tuner Device". You could help me out by letting me know what the Plug-and-Play Hardware ID is for the DCX3200.

You can check this from the Device Manager (on Windows 7 or Vista, not XP):
1. From Device Manager, right-click on AV/C Tuner Device and choose Properties.

2. At the top of the Properties dialog, click on the Details tab.

3. From the drop-down listbox, choose Hardware Ids

If you could either screenshot that or copy-and-paste the result, I'll add it to the driver package.

Here's what it looks like when I perform this on my Windows 7 SP1 machine (connected to a Motorola DCH3416):

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I also read somewhere in this thread someone was having the dreaded error dialog pop up after you exit CapDVHS as I was to when I first ran the gui in W7. Ez fix is to just r click on the shortcut and run it in compatibility mode under XP service pack 3 and voila! no more dialog box.

What? Can someone post a screenshot of this error message? I run CapDVHS exclusively on Windows 7 32-bit and am not getting any kind of error message when I close it. Is there anything special happening when you close CapDVHS...is it still capturing when you close it? (yeah, that'd be odd for someone to want to close it while still capturing, but I've gotta ask)

I do sometimes see a Windows 7 warning message if I install CapDVHS via some other method than my .MSI package, or if I just copy it over manually. My .MSI should be creating a .manifest file in the same folder as CapDVHS, which tells Windows 7 that CapDVHS functions properly on that platform and requires UAC administrative rights.

I'd like to hear any information that anybody has about this error message and the OS (and service pack level) that your machine is on. Also be sure to mention how CapDVHS was installed (did you use my .MSI package, or did you download it from VideoHelp.com, etc).
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post #5632 of 6043 Old 06-13-2011, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TNO821 View Post
Good to know! Thanks for sharing that. So TWC is being super hardcore on the copy protection flag!


Are you having any issues getting my .MSI package to install? I can't quite tell from your post whether there is an issue that you'd like me to address.

One thing I would like to improve is having the proper name display for the DCX cable boxes/DVR's instead of the generic "AV/C Tuner Device". You could help me out by letting me know what the Plug-and-Play Hardware ID is for the DCX3200.

You can check this from the Device Manager (on Windows 7 or Vista, not XP):
1. From Device Manager, right-click on AV/C Tuner Device and choose Properties.

2. At the top of the Properties dialog, click on the Details tab.

3. From the drop-down listbox, choose Hardware Ids

If you could either screenshot that or copy-and-paste the result, I'll add it to the driver package.

Here's what it looks like when I perform this on my Windows 7 SP1 machine (connected to a Motorola DCH3416):
Here's the Ids for the DCX3200.

AVC\\MOTOROLA&DCX-3200&TYP_5&ID_0
AVC\\MOTOROLA&DCX-3200&TYP_5

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNO821
Are you having any issues getting my .MSI package to install? I can't quite tell from your post whether there is an issue that you'd like me to address.
No not at all I was just addressing DSperber's comment on glitch free caps and showing the ch lineup of what I'm able to record. I was just explaining how I actually loaded the drivers without having the STB connected to the PC. I was thinking maybe a lot of people have residual left overs from previous installs in their registry causing the glitching. That's why I posted the screen shot of the device mgr thinking people could use it as a reference, and see if anything on their end might be out of place. But after reading through the threads that probably just isn't the case, weak signals along with poorly written fw's is not uncommon with this company.

I'm getting excellent caps with this box and am just glad I'm able to capture anything at all. As I mentioned before TWC disabled the firewire ports on my DCT box over a year and a half ago when they piped down a late night firmware here in WLA. And for what it's worth I'm not holding my breath for the DCX either. They can cripple these boxes anytime they want just like they did with the DCT's....

Again thanks for updating the driver package and making it stupid simple. And to avoid the wizard prompts is always a plus take care.

Regards, Gary
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post #5633 of 6043 Old 06-13-2011, 11:05 PM
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Here's the Ids for the DCX3200.
AVC\\MOTOROLA&DCX-3200&TYP_5&ID_0
AVC\\MOTOROLA&DCX-3200&TYP_5

Again thanks for updating the driver package and making it stupid simple. And to avoid the wizard prompts is always a plus take care.
Thanks for the ID's! I'll assume that Motorola continues with that naming convention for the rest of DCX series and I'll update the .MSI install.
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post #5634 of 6043 Old 06-13-2011, 11:18 PM
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I was just addressing DSperber's comment on glitch free caps and showing the ch lineup of what I'm able to record.
Most of your channels are the copy-freely 720p/1080i HD channels (i.e. mostly local OTA networks, but a few others) and also the 480i SD channels which are also copy-freely.

But the fact that you ARE able to record glitch-free with the STB/DCX3200 from the 720p/1080i HD channels which are copy-freely, I still find remarkable.

My own experience with the DVR/DCX3400 attempting to record via firewire to a 5C-compliant JVC DVHS VCR was simply unsuccessful, no matter whether I was trying to record copy-freely or copy-once content, and no matter whether I tried to record "live" (which should have been the same as with the DCX3200, conceptually) or using playback from a previously recorded program. I honestly can't recall if I'd tried recording 480i programs via firewire.

My own theory is that "live" on a DVR isn't really "live" at all, as it truly is on a STB/DCX3200. With a STB, the data is simply routed straight through from the tuner to the firewire output (well, it's obviously a bit more complex than just that). With a DVR, the data is ALWAYS recorded to hard drive first and then PLAYED BACK from the hard drive. This give you the ability to "pause and rewind LIVE TV", through the magic of separate WRITE/READ functions going on simultaneously to the hard drive.

So in light of your statements about glitch-free recording from your STB/DCX3200, this now leads me to have my own theory that the firewire-related failure issue with the DVR/DCX3400 is obviously somehow tied to the intermediate use of the hard drive as a "relay" between input/output to firewire.

The glitches which we've all observed (stalls, freezes, lockups, audio echos, double-speed audio, jerky video, pull-the-power-cord as the only way to get the unit back to normal, etc., not to mention similar bizarre effects on the recording DVHS VCR which also might require pulling the power cord to re-boot)... well I've not heard from ANY user of the DVR/DCX3400 products anywhere on these forums who's said that they have achieved glitch-free results, using either PC or DVHS VCR.

So your STB/DCX3200 results with your PC... well this is a first, and very very interesting data.
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post #5635 of 6043 Old 06-14-2011, 01:04 AM
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My own theory is that "live" on a DVR isn't really "live" at all, as it truly is on a STB/DCX3200. With a STB, the data is simply routed straight through from the tuner to the firewire output (well, it's obviously a bit more complex than just that). With a DVR, the data is ALWAYS recorded to hard drive first and then PLAYED BACK from the hard drive.
Not if you unplug the hard drive. Then it has no choice but to be truly live. I wonder if it would be using the same code path as the DCX3200 in that scenario.

Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if the DCX3200 is relatively recently installed and perhaps slightly tweaked from what was on your DCX3400 (like the posts about people getting special DCX boxes from the cable company that don't suffer from the black screen recording issue, etc)...there's any number of special settings (like BIOS settings on a PC) that could have been fooled with. It's certainly good news that at least one of the DCX series boxes can make use of FireWire!
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post #5636 of 6043 Old 06-15-2011, 10:19 PM
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The glitches which we've all observed (stalls, freezes, lockups, audio echos, double-speed audio, jerky video, pull-the-power-cord as the only way to get the unit back to normal, etc., not to mention similar bizarre effects on the recording DVHS VCR which also might require pulling the power cord to re-boot)... well I've not heard from ANY user of the DVR/DCX3400 products anywhere on these forums who's said that they have achieved glitch-free results, using either PC or DVHS VCR.

So your STB/DCX3200 results with your PC... well this is a first, and very very interesting data.

That's terrible hence the reason I turned in my DCT way back when....
This little box doesn't suffer any of those symptoms you described, although it will green screen on me if I switch certain inputs on my VT25 but never have to reboot the box just hit the power button.

Here's a crappy video I took with my blackberry flip phone capping Frasier.



Forgot I had a 1:1 .ts file, the sound went out of sync when I uploaded the Frasier file.

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post #5637 of 6043 Old 06-15-2011, 11:33 PM
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...although it will green screen on me if I switch certain inputs on my VT25...

Standard HDMI handshake nuisances commonly seen with various display devices, setups, AVR relays from DCX boxes, changing inputs on the HDTV while DCX is powered on, etc.

This isn't really something major, or related to the firewire issue.


P.S. - looks like the "police" took down your Simpson's video.
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post #5638 of 6043 Old 06-15-2011, 11:48 PM
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P.S. - looks like the "police" took down your Simpson's video.

It's working on my end using chrome
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post #5639 of 6043 Old 06-16-2011, 12:02 AM
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It's working on my end using chrome

Using Firefox: "this video contains content from FOX, who has blocked it on copyright grounds".
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post #5640 of 6043 Old 06-16-2011, 12:35 AM
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I'm using Google Chrome and also saw the same "This video contains content from FOX, who has blocked it on copyright grounds" message.

They must have a program with signature hashes for all their stuff crawl YouTube (unless that Simpsons video has been there for a while).
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