How to record via IEEE 1394 (Firewire) to Windows XP - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 09:08 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DaveFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Natick MA
Posts: 17,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 26
There is no way to get around DTCP/5C protection and it's most likely that the 5C=1 QAM content is encrypted anyways, so a QAM enabled PC Tuner will do you little good on that front as well.

XBOX Live: Wagmman
PSN: Wagg
BFBC2: Wagman
Steam: Wag

My Second Life character looks and acts exactly like me except he can fly.
DaveFi is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 09:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dozens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is a 5C recording scrambled or just junk ?

dozens is offline  
post #63 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 09:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
Chris Carollo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 892
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Even discussing how to bypass 5C encrypition was made illegal by the DMCA, so I'd suggest not continuing down that road of discussion.

If we could somehow make a driver/storage scheme that complies with 5C, on the other hand, that would allow us to record 5C-encrypted material legally.

So...anyone tried any other drivers for these boxes? Any full or partial successes?
Chris Carollo is offline  
post #64 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 11:00 AM
Newbie
 
rmoore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The live watching with VLAN was what I was trying to do (post #43), and experienced bluescreen when trying to configure as well. I tried the steps ben has listed, but the render was all black, no sound. I did get a nice little "Channel 3" overlay for the first few seconds, so it seemed to be talking at some level. Now that ben has successfully made it work, I'll play with it some more. I should have enough hp with a 2.4G/800M FSB/1G dual-channel ram. perhaps a different channel...
rmoore is offline  
post #65 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 11:24 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DaveFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Natick MA
Posts: 17,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, 5C isn't encryption- it's a "flag" that tells DTCP compliant hardware how to deal with a program: Copy always, Copy Once or Copy Never. (0,1,2?)

So, for purposes of this thread, the 6200 sees your PC Firewire as a non-compliant DTCP device and blocks the output for 5C=1,2. Unfortunately the 6200 w/7.10 firmware blocks the output to every device if just 1 is non-compliant. I don't think that's how DTCP is supposed to work.

On top of that your cable company will probably encrypt the material, that way a standard QAM tuner like the ones on TVs and PCTuners couldn't receive the programming.

XBOX Live: Wagmman
PSN: Wagg
BFBC2: Wagman
Steam: Wag

My Second Life character looks and acts exactly like me except he can fly.
DaveFi is offline  
post #66 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 01:06 PM
Member
 
chosenfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
beta-testing a 6208 (single tuner HD DVR). actually a friend of mine works for comcast and he's allowed me to use his 6208. had to bring over my HTPC.

via CapDVHS, i can record LIVE HD programs without any issues, along with analog channels (2-99), and the regular digital channels (102-171, 300s, 400s). Even VOD shows. INterestingly, The DVR itself is NOT able to do this (VOD recording).

to my surprise, i was also able to capture RECORDED shows to my HTPC. i was thinking firewire recording only did streaming shows, not ones recorded onto the 6208's own had drive. Its interesting to note also that no compression was on the DVR-recorded programs. I scheduled the pistons/pacers game 2 on ESPNHD and recorded a short clip LIVE via CapDVHS, and then recorded a clip off of the DVR-captured game. Same bitrate, same aspect ratio.
thats good encouraging news - i can schedule a recording on the 6208, and know its not compressed or converted to a lower bit file. no degradation in PQ. that means i dont have to be there to record a program onto my hard drive - i can simply record via the 6208, and then record that recording to my hard drive (sounds so redundant!). i then simply delete the DVR recording to make room for future recordings.

hopefully this 6208 will be released to the public here soon. i can turn in my 6200, and get rid of my ReplayTV. one less component and one less remote! :P
chosenfool is offline  
post #67 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 04:22 PM
Member
 
theswid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
1st, when i capture any optional channels from comcast via 6200, there is a file created (i can see the frames of data flying in the capture program as well) but the file type is not defined in the templete (frame rate, resolution, etc). I do assume that this is 5C so it does send data but it is of no value.

2nd, a question for chosenfool: comcast here in St. Hgts. MI does offer the 6208 as a $4 per month option. Since you can copy via fireware to a pc, what firmware is the unit you are using? the 7.10 does catch a non-complient device (say a HTPC) like i stated above. Maybe your unit has an older firmware or maybe your comcast system is not setting the flags correctly yet.

Mark
theswid is offline  
post #68 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 04:25 PM
Member
 
theswid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
since HTPC's with firewire are not able to capture 5C encryption streams, what DVHS decks meet this requirement?

mark
theswid is offline  
post #69 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bdraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tampa FL 33629
Posts: 2,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
5C is compliant at the hardware level, so we have to hope that 5C licenses someone to make a 5C compliant firewire card.

It should be possible to write a driver that doesn't blue screen. Both the mac and Linux have drivers that have more functionality. I think the problem is that most developers don't want to spend time on a project that is a waste of time if/when 5C is enabled for all channels.

If Vividlogic ever comes out with the DTVRecorder(aka firebus) it will be in the same situation, only useful for non-5C content.

There is hope that a PC may be 5C compliant the original presentations on www.dtcp.com show PC's as one of the compliant devices, but none have ever been made.

Ben
How good could it be if it isn't HD?
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline  
post #70 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 07:30 PM
Member
 
chosenfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by theswid
1st, when i capture any optional channels from comcast via 6200, there is a file created (i can see the frames of data flying in the capture program as well) but the file type is not defined in the templete (frame rate, resolution, etc). I do assume that this is 5C so it does send data but it is of no value.

2nd, a question for chosenfool: comcast here in St. Hgts. MI does offer the 6208 as a $4 per month option. Since you can copy via fireware to a pc, what firmware is the unit you are using? the 7.10 does catch a non-complient device (say a HTPC) like i stated above. Maybe your unit has an older firmware or maybe your comcast system is not setting the flags correctly yet.

Mark

7.10.



5C is set to "0". this means its disabled, no? :


and HDCP is set to "N/A" :

though this is cuz im not using the DVI port. from what ive heard, HDCP is enabled only when its using the DVI port.
chosenfool is offline  
post #71 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 07:37 PM
Member
 
chosenfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
im thinking that the ability to record everything at this time (analog, digital, HD, VOD, and even native-STB-recorded shows) is only due to this box being a beta-tester DVR. once its officially released, it may be disabled.
though im hoping its still that way when its finally released to the public....
chosenfool is offline  
post #72 of 6046 Old 05-27-2004, 08:02 PM
Member
 
theswid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
YES. Mine does show 5C=1 which means that it does not allow capture with external device without 5C hardware in it too (like a JVC DVHS deck).

I wonder if i get the 6208 that is avail here that it will be set to a zero....

mark
theswid is offline  
post #73 of 6046 Old 05-28-2004, 03:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
bart745's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: St Paul MN
Posts: 582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by theswid
YES. Mine does show 5C=1 which means that it does not allow capture with external device without 5C hardware in it too (like a JVC DVHS deck).

I wonder if i get the 6208 that is avail here that it will be set to a zero....

mark

I think that you may see different 5C values in the Status screen depending on the particular channel being watched when the STB is turned off.

Also, I think that the 5C value does not reside statically in the STB but is part of the DTV stream.

Bart
bart745 is offline  
post #74 of 6046 Old 05-28-2004, 08:25 AM
Member
 
theswid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bart745: you are correct. i just checked my box on a non protected channel & the 5C=0.

So what gives? How come some people can capture the stream & others (like me) cannot? does this vaiy from box to box or is this determined by the headend (comcast) encoding the stream?

mark
theswid is offline  
post #75 of 6046 Old 05-28-2004, 08:59 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DaveFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Natick MA
Posts: 17,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Comcast is setting the values. This is the way it's going to be from now on.

It seems "Copy Once" is going to be the norm for pretty much everything.

XBOX Live: Wagmman
PSN: Wagg
BFBC2: Wagman
Steam: Wag

My Second Life character looks and acts exactly like me except he can fly.
DaveFi is offline  
post #76 of 6046 Old 05-28-2004, 11:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
N3W813's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I can get HBO to record 25-30s.......Just start CapDVHS recording a channel that is not 5C, then change the channel to HBO during recording and it'll capture about 30s worth of HBO before crapping out. CapDVHS will continue recording, but the data is unreadable.

If you send the ts thru tsreader, you get all kinds of continuity errors, and tons of PIDs.

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
N3W813 is offline  
post #77 of 6046 Old 05-28-2004, 01:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jsb_hburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 1,867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by DaveFi
Comcast is setting the values. This is the way it's going to be from now on.

It seems "Copy Once" is going to be the norm for pretty much everything.

I talked to a local headend supervisor today and he emphatically said that the programmers are setting the 5C flags not the MSO.

Regards,
Joe


Going "over the top" with OTA, Netflix, Drobo FS and Apple TV!
jsb_hburg is offline  
post #78 of 6046 Old 05-28-2004, 02:53 PM
Senior Member
 
jonnyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The link in the first post doesn't seem to be working.

http://www.ntut.edu.tw/~s7310308/htm...ore_driver.zip

Does anyone know where else you can get these drivers?

I do have my DVHS deck recognized by Windows XP. I had used the directions oulined here last year. Is there something different in the core_driver.zip package?

Thanks!
jonnyb is offline  
post #79 of 6046 Old 05-28-2004, 04:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
Chris Carollo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 892
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I mirrored it onto my site:

http://www.cornbread.org/HT/core_driver.zip
Chris Carollo is offline  
post #80 of 6046 Old 05-28-2004, 05:56 PM
Senior Member
 
jonnyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by Chris Carollo
I mirrored it onto my site:

http://www.cornbread.org/HT/core_driver.zip

Thanks!
jonnyb is offline  
post #81 of 6046 Old 05-30-2004, 09:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
Chris Carollo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 892
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone have any info about how to record the a/v stream via something like DirectShow? If I try to set up a capture session as indicated in the DirectShow documentation I end up consistently bluescreening.

I've got some free time and would be interested in writing a PVR-ish piece of recording software, but I'm not too keen on debugging a bluescreening driver crash.

Alternately, if anyone knows of any other drivers that work and are more stable, that would help immensely too.
Chris Carollo is offline  
post #82 of 6046 Old 05-30-2004, 10:08 AM
Member
 
theswid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
does anyone have information regarding the conversion of a captured .TS transport stream to Windows Media 9 (WM9) HD & maintaining the dolby digital sound? I am not sure what software & process should be used.

Thanks,
Mark
theswid is offline  
post #83 of 6046 Old 05-30-2004, 12:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
VideoGrabber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 2,799
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bdraw wrote:
> I am sorry but this does not work with w2k. You will have to upgrade to xp. The 1394 stack for XP is completely different from 2k. <<br />
I know this is true, however I don't understand why a compatible protocol stack and drivers couldn't be made available for Win2k as well. Does anyone know why this isn't possible, or is it just that it hasn't been done because moving to XP is less effort?

(All 3 of the Win2k systems I have at home (and the one I use at work) is more stable than any of the XP systems we have at work, so I'd prefer not having to "upgrade" one of mine to XP just for 1394 support... if possible.)

- Tim

- Tim
VideoGrabber is offline  
post #84 of 6046 Old 05-30-2004, 04:50 PM
Member
 
edraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This thread is exactly what I've been looking for. Just got it up and running in a few minutes with a Motorola 6200. So far, I can capture everything I've tried, including HBO-HD.

update: INHD doesn't work. It records, but the file is unplayable. 5C I assume? How can I check?
edraven is offline  
post #85 of 6046 Old 05-30-2004, 06:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jimre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Bend, WA
Posts: 2,012
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by DaveFi
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, 5C isn't encryption- it's a "flag" that tells DTCP compliant hardware how to deal with a program: Copy always, Copy Once or Copy Never. (0,1,2?)

5C most definitely encrypts the content, for any mode except copy-freely. If the content wasn't encrypted, it would be trivial to write software that reads the 1394 data stream & simply ignores the flags. See the 5C/DTCP spec here:

http://www.dtcp.com/data/wp_spec.pdf
jimre is offline  
post #86 of 6046 Old 05-30-2004, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bdraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tampa FL 33629
Posts: 2,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


Originally posted by VideoGrabber

I know this is true, however I don't understand why a compatible protocol stack and drivers couldn't be made available for Win2k as well. Does anyone know why this isn't possible, or is it just that it hasn't been done because moving to XP is less effort?

(All 3 of the Win2k systems I have at home (and the one I use at work) is more stable than any of the XP systems we have at work, so I'd prefer not having to "upgrade" one of mine to XP just for 1394 support... if possible.)

I always say "Windows is very stable until you install software on it."
I would look to the software that is install on your machine at work rather than blaming XP. After all XP is just windows NT5.1.

Windows XP comes with the necessary components to record 2k doesn't. If you want to write the 2k driver I am sure 2k owners everywhere will be appreciative. But I assure you it is much easier to upgrade to XP.

The only reason not to upgrade to XP is if you have a older piece of hardware that is not compatible with XP.

Ben
How good could it be if it isn't HD?
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline  
post #87 of 6046 Old 05-30-2004, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bdraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tampa FL 33629
Posts: 2,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


Originally posted by theswid
does anyone have information regarding the conversion of a captured .TS transport stream to Windows Media 9 (WM9) HD & maintaining the dolby digital sound? I am not sure what software & process should be used.

See this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=227837

As far as I know WM9 doesn't support an AC3 sound track. I would recomment converting to mpeg with HDTVtoMPEG2 v1.10b. Then convert to Xvid just like one would convert a DVD. Doom9.org is the best place to read up on this type of topic.

Ben
How good could it be if it isn't HD?
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline  
post #88 of 6046 Old 05-30-2004, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bdraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tampa FL 33629
Posts: 2,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


Originally posted by Chris Carollo
Anyone have any info about how to record the a/v stream via something like DirectShow? If I try to set up a capture session as indicated in the DirectShow documentation I end up consistently bluescreening.

I've got some free time and would be interested in writing a PVR-ish piece of recording software, but I'm not too keen on debugging a bluescreening driver crash.

Alternately, if anyone knows of any other drivers that work and are more stable, that would help immensely too.

I would love if this were possible. I think that a driver would have to be written, and I think that the only way someone will spend the time on a driver is if they were sure it would work once 5C was enabled everywhere. I think your best bet may be to use dtcrecord and a IR blaster via serial to control the STB. If you were to write a nice GUI I think it would be a big hit.

The other option would be to use linux which might have a better 1394 driver than this hack.

Ben
How good could it be if it isn't HD?
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline  
post #89 of 6046 Old 05-31-2004, 06:17 AM
Member
 
pierreb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Boston,MA
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Found out what feels better than sex...

Checking your Mot STB, and finding out you were upgraded from 7.07 to 7.10.

Boston Suburb

pierreb
pierreb is offline  
post #90 of 6046 Old 05-31-2004, 09:06 AM
Advanced Member
 
Chris Carollo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 892
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bdraw: yeah, I'm a pretty proficient C++ programmer so I could definitely handle the PVR and GUI and IR-blaster via serial...but I don't think I'm up for any driver writing/debugging. Never done it before, and I expect the specs that I'd need will be pretty hard to come by.

I emailed the author of dctrecord to see if I could some info (or source code) on how he was recording the video stream (since I'd rather not shell out to an external program), but haven't heard back yet.

In the meantime, I think I'm just going to try grabbing the raw 1394 stream and see what I come up with...
Chris Carollo is offline  
Reply HDTV Recorders

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off