Anyone want to speculate on Alans appetizer??? - AVS Forum
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Old 05-20-2004, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone? :confused: :confused: :confused:

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Old 05-20-2004, 03:36 PM
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Nope, but if I can't record cable or OTA it's a non-starter for me.
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Old 05-20-2004, 04:19 PM
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Maybe he's trying to slow down sales of the new HiDef DirecTV/Tivo receivers?
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Old 05-20-2004, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL, I am really jonesing to know what it is. Hey Alan, how soon will we know???

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Old 05-20-2004, 05:35 PM
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If I was to do something along those lines it would be a PCI card that has YPrPb or DVI input and real time MPEG encoding on board and encodes to an MPEG2 TS stream which could be saved on the PC hard drive.

It would handle HDCP too - though that would probably be a hidden option that is turned on by a secret jumper ;) Let's call that the "fair use" jumper ;)

In any case, a MPEG2 encoder/muxer for HD would allow recording from any chosen source - the killer ap.

Based on what Alan has said, the product is PC based and the only outputs on the DIRECTV receivers are analogue or DVI, so I think that this guess is fairly close.

Or it could be a DSB receiver on a PCI card - somehow less likely I feel...

Cheers!
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Old 05-20-2004, 05:45 PM
 
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At first I would have thought Dish 6000 8PSK module -> USB2, but then he said
"you will be able to record directly to hard drive using one of the more popular HD receivers from Dish or Direct for starters."
so if includes D* it must not be that "other" Skyseeker Oasis device.

I wonder if it could be a "169time" style daughter-card for certain
receivers, but with USB2 output instead?

The Zap2it web interface suggests that it is PC integrated in some way.

Whatever it is - I am interested to hear - I hope it ends up being more
"user friendly" that many of the other so-called "solutions" we have had
to cobble together in recent years. I wish the Dish5000+mod was
still alive...
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Old 05-20-2004, 05:55 PM
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If it records without flaws (unlike the 169Time units) it will be great! It's way over due. Time to start recording again :)

1394 Firewire is so flaky... Hope it's the new and improved USB!
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Old 05-20-2004, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Now I have to disagree about the 1394 issues. As long as you are not using a hack, it is very reliable. Either way I will welcome, with open arms a new way to record HD.

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Old 05-20-2004, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW, JRichards...congrats on your 1000th post!!!

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Old 05-20-2004, 10:26 PM
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Whatever it is if it can do what alan stated it will be a godsend to a lot of us that dont have the option for either OTA or cable HD in our area .
I wonder how long the arround the corner is ....
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Old 05-20-2004, 11:10 PM
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To those who don't know, it is totally and completely impossible to pipe >>in<< DVI over the PCI bus. The bandwidth of the HD signal over DVI is greater than what the PCI bus is capable of -- by a healthy margin. Then there is the fact that no hard drive can write data that fast...

I've no idea what this product is or is not, but what it isn't is a DVI-based recorder.

Mark

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 05-21-2004, 12:45 AM
 
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Although I agree that it is very unlikely a DVI recorder, you could
(theoretically) pipe DVI into a compression engine, then send
the compressed data into the PC...
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Old 05-21-2004, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
To those who don't know, it is totally and completely impossible to pipe >>in<< DVI over the PCI bus. The bandwidth of the HD signal over DVI is greater than what the PCI bus is capable of -- by a healthy margin. Then there is the fact that no hard drive can write data that fast...
As HDHTPC notes, you're assuming it stays full bandwidth before it hits the bus. Real Time MPEG could bring it down to acceptable size. These folks have some boards designed to do full bandwidth capture over 64Bit PCI for medical imaging (And they're working on PCI-X boards).

-MM
[edited for clarity]
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Old 05-21-2004, 10:20 AM
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Can't wait to see it. My guess has to be component capture.
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Old 05-21-2004, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HookedOnTV
Can't wait to see it. My guess has to be component capture.
Agreed. Anyone know what a real-time mpeg2 encoder chip costs? Or course, one that can handle at least a 19.2Mbps bitrate.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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Old 05-21-2004, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by taz291819
Agreed. Anyone know what a real-time mpeg2 encoder chip costs? Or course, one that can handle at least a 19.2Mbps bitrate.
An ASIC to do it would be expensive, but not absurdly so, though the NRE cost would be biggish. Xilinx and Duma Video have some IP available to do it in big FPGAs (single piece cost ~$300, single unit IP licensing unavailable, project based or site based only), which would bring NRE down but initial license costs and recurring costs higher.

-MM
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by kippjones
Anyone? :confused: :confused: :confused:
Huh? What are you talking about? Is Alan preparing a dinner for everyone on the forum?
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry G
Huh? What are you talking about? Is Alan preparing a dinner for everyone on the forum?
Apparently this thread requires some inside information that neither you nor I have yet been provided. My guess is there is a rumor of some upcoming device to permit recording HDTV to something, probably a PC. I am also guessing that Alan will have to eat crow but I don't have a clue what this thread is about or why I am bothering to post what I know which is nothing.

Chris
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Old 05-21-2004, 12:11 PM
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Jerry, Chris,
Check out the locked sticky note re: "New HD recording option". Took me a few minutes to figure it out too as Kipp didn't reference that when he started this thread.
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Old 05-21-2004, 12:16 PM
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Thanks archi, I read it and although I still know nothing, it sounds like it might allow HDTV recording from my HDTiVo to D-VHS. Beats me how it can be done but if possible and reasonably priced, I am in.

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Old 05-21-2004, 12:33 PM
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If this product has component input, then it would work with all HD receivers right now, but that seems to contradict what Alan wrote: "using one of the more popular HD receivers from Dish or Direct for starters." So it seems that this product will not have component input, but I would love to be proven wrong.

By the way, it would be nice to also have digital audio input for DD5.1.
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Old 05-21-2004, 01:04 PM
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There is another solution in the works. It's PC based and uses the Dish 8-PSK adapter as a general purpose satellite tuner.

http://www.dvbnews.com/article.aspx?id=154

Of course, to be completely above board you would only be able to record FTA signals.

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Old 05-21-2004, 01:10 PM
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My best guess to Alan's new solution which does not use Firewire would be a Dish, Voom or DirecTv receiver modded with a professional DVB-ASI output (this is MPEG2-TS over SDI). That's the easy part. The hard part is finding an affordable DVB-ASI capture card for the PC, and appropriate software.

Some people are already doing this to one degree or another. For more ideas look here:

http://www.coolstf.com

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Old 05-21-2004, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry G
Huh? What are you talking about? Is Alan preparing a dinner for everyone on the forum?
Yeah, he is cooking up some good grub...:D :D :D That made me laugh really hard, good one Jerry!!!:) :) :)

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Old 05-21-2004, 01:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by dahester
There is another solution in the works. It's PC based and uses the Dish 8-PSK adapter as a general purpose satellite tuner.

http://www.dvbnews.com/article.aspx?id=154

Of course, to be completely above board you would only be able to record FTA signals.
Yes, that "Skyseeker Oasis" was my first thought.... *but* Alan said it will work
with certain D* or E* STBs. D* doesn't have an 8PSK module, so this must be something else he is talking about.
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Old 05-21-2004, 01:28 PM
 
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For reference, (in this topic), here is Alan's announcement:

======================================================

Alert: New HD recording option on its way.

Finally. This could be what we've all been waiting for.

There have been several products available to date allowing us to archive HD content. These being designed and limited to one decoder offering limited playback options.
So the purpose of this post is to let everyone know a new option is on its way. It is not firewire based (firewire has proven unstable and problematic in itself) and you will be able to record directly to hard drive using one of the more popular HD receivers from Dish or Direct for starters.
The best part, this product gives us the long awaited flexibility with your choice of playback options. Glitch free playback on MyHD/HiPix, DVHS via DVHStool, JVC 30/40K, Samsung 165, Roku, just to name a few. Simple PVR functionality via Zap2it web interface or IRD guide VCR controls.

This will be the first of many offerings from the soon to be announced company.

I am keeping this short and sweet as an appetizer.
I look forward to leaving the "Grand Announcement" with full product details to the developer and manufacturing team when ready.

Another Hi Def recording option is just around the corner in the near future. Stay Tuned!


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=404058
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Old 05-21-2004, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HDHTPC

The best part, this product gives us the long awaited flexibility with your choice of playback options. Glitch free playback on MyHD/HiPix, DVHS via DVHStool, JVC 30/40K, Samsung 165, Roku, just to name a few
.
This implies that whatever it is creates MPEG2 TS streams.
Quote:
Simple PVR functionality via Zap2it web interface or IRD guide VCR controls.
This, plus the mention of DVHS vis DVHSTool imply PC HDD.

I am sticking with my view of an MPEG2 encoder board. As pointed out, the output from such a board would be easily low enough bandwidth for the PCI bus, regardless of the 74.25 MByte/s bandwidth of DVI for HDTV.

It would be interesting since the PC would have to control the HD receiver too (at least to change channel), so maybe that is why there is a limited receiver support mentioned...?

To answer other questions, companies like LSI have HD capable MPEG2 encoder chips.

On the other hand, the reference to only SAT sources (for starters!) implies that we _may_ be looking at a PCI card Sat receiver. The legality of such a device becomes the question there, IMHO...?

Ain't speculation grand? ;)

Cheers!
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Old 05-21-2004, 05:38 PM
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The PCI bus bandwidth really isn't an issue. The encoder is going to have to be on the card so we're looking at 15-20 Mb/s by the time it gets to the pci bus, no more than an OTA card.

Don't think this is a pci tuner card, legality and all. Plus if it were there would be no need for interaction with an existing receiver.

I suppose it could be a new mod for a receiver like the 169 setup but this route just isn't the cleanest. For one Direct doesn't use MPEG2 so their stream would have to be modified (which I assume the 169 unit does) in order to end up with a stream playable with all the mentioned players.

I'm still a little thrown with the "one of the more popular HD receivers from Dish or Direct for starters". If it is a component/dvi capture card I can't see how it would be limited to these couple boxes, other than if there is something to the speculation about ir blaster control/compatability. I would hope that functionality would not rely on this, I'm sure we can figure out a way to tune to the desired channel at the desired time.

If it is component capture that VOOM service is looking very good.
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Old 05-21-2004, 07:43 PM
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Any one have any guesses as to who is making this device? My guess is immersive. Maybe some sort of advanced Holo-3d card.

Kenny
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Old 05-21-2004, 08:01 PM
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I am still guessing a SkySeeker connection here. NOt the 8PSK-USB2 card, but rather the ASI card they apparently are working on. The 8psk card cannot be used with a legitimate sub, which limits its use for Dish and DirectTV. But some way to take the feed off a legit subed reciever and feed into ASI interface would work.

Just a guess.
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