SA 8300 HD with DVI & DVR - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1154 Old 02-09-2005, 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by davehancock
NO, NO, NO!!!

Simple. This applies to SARA and I suspect all Scientific Atlanta boxes (at least the 8000 & 8300).

Nope, not all 8300's use SARA, some use Passport. I know North Carolina does.

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post #632 of 1154 Old 02-09-2005, 09:18 AM
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hookbill,

When you say "Nope" what are you saying? That the procedure to get diagnostic screens that I gave applies to Passport also?.

My "NO, NO, NO!!" was in response to pwelden who was incorrectly quoting the SA8300 manual that assumed SARA. I was clearly stating that the procedure to get diagnostic screens (in response to Michaelscott) was for SARA.

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post #633 of 1154 Old 02-09-2005, 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by davehancock
hookbill,

When you say "Nope" what are you saying? That the procedure to get diagnostic screens that I gave applies to Passport also?.

My "NO, NO, NO!!" was in response to pwelden who was incorrectly quoting the SA8300 manual that assumed SARA. I was clearly stating that the procedure to get diagnostic screens (in response to Michaelscott) was for SARA.

Sorry for the confusion. I was saying that SARA and Passport software was used in the 8300. Not that your procedure for getting to the diagnostic screen was incorrect. You said at the end of your post that you assumed all 8000 and 8300 used SARA.

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post #634 of 1154 Old 02-09-2005, 09:35 AM
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hookbill,

Ah, I see your point. What I intended to say that I suspected that this procedure applied to SA3100s, SA3250s and other (SARA based) Scientific Atlanta boxes as well.

But what is the equivalent procedure for Passport boxes? I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same.

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post #635 of 1154 Old 02-09-2005, 12:15 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by davehancock
But what is the equivalent procedure for Passport boxes? I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same.

Pioneer's Passport IPG runs on all of the "current" SA digital cable boxes and DVRs and some Motorola boxes. The procedure for entering the diagnostic screens is NOT the same. In Passport, you hold down the SEL and EXIT keys on the box until the word "dIAG" appears in the LED display. After that, let go of the keys and briefly press EXIT again to view the diagnostic screens. If this is the first time you've done it, hit the INFO key to find out the channel (it differs from system to system)--you can get back to the screens from the remote by tuning that channel. On my system it's 611. If both tuners are being used for recording, you can view the diag screens by hitting the EXIT key on the STB.

Answer to the second part of my question--are the diag screens the same under SARA? is there a screen called "DVR AVFS" giving the total, used and free space in gigabytes. (2 to the 30th power computing gigabytes, not 10 to the 9th power "marketing" gigabytes; you can tell the difference because if it's computing GB, the total space should be just over 150 GB ).

Could someone please check this and not just report from memory? (Unless you use this screen daily, as I do). Thanks.

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post #636 of 1154 Old 02-09-2005, 01:38 PM
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OK Mike, I checked. I simplified the answer before because the number of diagnostic screens varies with the version of SARA (it is 1.85.17.3 here).

On this version it is screen 18 (out of 30) and the screen is labeled "DVR-HDD Information" Attached is a screen shot of this screen. I hope that this helps.
LL

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post #637 of 1154 Old 02-09-2005, 02:22 PM
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Hmmm. Not nearly as handy as the DVR AVFS screen on Passport, but I can work with it. It has one screen for the AVFS and the ITFS (Passport has two). Instead of the capacity, used and free space in GB, it gives the capacity and free space in clusters of 4700 512-byte sectors (for the AVFS), a cluster being the smallest unit of allocation in that part of the filesystem. You will note that 4700 * 512 = 2406400 * 67199 = 161.7 billion bytes (marketing GB) / 2^30 = 150.6 (computing) GB. The unit in that picture has about 67.7 GB free.

Gracias!

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post #638 of 1154 Old 02-09-2005, 02:36 PM
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Mike,

Thanks for the explanation. A picture is worth a thousand words, isn't it?

That unit was at 49% full when the shot was taken.

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post #639 of 1154 Old 02-09-2005, 05:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by davehancock
Mike,

Thanks for the explanation. A picture is worth a thousand words, isn't it?

That unit was at 49% full when the shot was taken.

Okay, if you say so . By my calculations, it was 55% full: 30207 (the free space) / 671.99 (1% of the capacity) = 44.95

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post #640 of 1154 Old 02-10-2005, 04:52 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by michaeltscott
Okay, if you say so . By my calculations, it was 55% full: 30207 (the free space) / 671.99 (1% of the capacity) = 44.95

Would the difference be the amount of space used for the buffer on the active channel vs the space used for past recordings?
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post #641 of 1154 Old 02-10-2005, 05:09 AM
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That is correct and has been pointed out before. Also, the actual percentage of free space is only useful as an estimate since the amount of space required by any given recording varies a lot depending on the actual bandwidth being used, etc. I've seen reports of programs taking as little as 4-5G/hr and as much as 9G/hr or more.

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post #642 of 1154 Old 02-10-2005, 08:27 AM
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I find that when there are no recordings on it my DVR is always holding back 5.4 GB--I assume that this is for the trick-play buffers. 2.7 GB per would be enough for about 23 minutes of ABC's 17 Mbps average, 26 of NBC's average 15 Mbps, or about a half hour of CBS' 13 Mbps. (These numbers are as measured on my system--your mileage will vary). That seems about right. It can't ever let you allocate the space for these buffers to a permanent file, IMHO--even if the unit is full and can't record anything more, it has to let you "pause live TV", or it ceases to be a DVR.

Still, if I take 5.4 GB out of the capacity I still get that it was 53.3% full. Not a big deal--maybe the SARA model reserves more space for the buffers.

I take it that SARA has a percentage used meter somewhere in its GUI?

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post #643 of 1154 Old 02-10-2005, 08:50 AM
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Mike,

Yes. See the attached. The % used is now higher as I have recorded some stuff since yesterday.

Dave

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post #644 of 1154 Old 02-10-2005, 08:53 AM
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Sorry, the attachment didn't go through. Here it is.
LL

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post #645 of 1154 Old 02-10-2005, 11:34 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by michaeltscott
Pete, the laws and protection mechanisms for digital television, which have taken years to hammer out, are designed to give you the flexibility that you seek.

Well, they are, provided you're willing to put up with some restrictions (can't watch that episode of Deadwood on my laptop in bed) and are willing to repurchase all your existing equipment (my recorder doesn't support DTCP). I find this particularly annoying for television that's broadcast freely over the air.

Personally, I think that making a compelling product affordably priced is the best way to combat piracy, rather than attempts to restrict fair use rights of consumers.
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post #646 of 1154 Old 02-10-2005, 11:38 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by hookbill
Thanks ranger999. I kind of felt it might be a FOX issue. And the fact that it's happening in other DVR's confirms it. I appreciate the response.

Happening here in Austin, too. Americal Idol, 24, House, Superbowl, all were broken up, and all the breakups occur in commercial breaks. Very strange.
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post #647 of 1154 Old 02-10-2005, 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Chris Carollo
Happening here in Austin, too. Americal Idol, 24, House, Superbowl, all were broken up, and all the breakups occur in commercial breaks. Very strange.

Interesting way to skip commercials.

Wanted to add a warning to everyone with this problem. Be sure you are not limiting the saved episodes or you will miss the first part of the show. For example, we recore Am Idol but I have it set to only keep three episodes. So basically I was getting three recordings; a two minute (commercial break) a twelve minute (last twelve minutes of the show) and a two minute (another commercial.) This drove me crazy (especially when my wife forced be to put the tivo back on the main TV so she can see her show.)
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post #648 of 1154 Old 02-10-2005, 02:37 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by davehancock
Sorry, the attachment didn't go through. Here it is.

Interesting--there are some Passport users here that would really love that. Passport puts a little hourglass besides entries in the saved recordings list when, based on the current set of furture recording tasks, it's going to have to delete some of them within the next few days. It estimates how long you have to watch each of them and tells you as you scroll to its entry: "About 2 days", "About 4 days", "More than a week", etc. It won't ever automatically delete anything unless it has to to make space for something new--it schedules the deletions by the order of saved recordings list, which is least recently recorded last, deleted first. You can can change the order by "grabbing" an entry and moving it up or down the list.

(I should buy a cheap-o digital camera for communicating stuff like this to people on the net--not having any other use for a camera, I don't own one).

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post #649 of 1154 Old 02-10-2005, 02:52 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Chris Carollo
... and are willing to repurchase all your existing equipment (my recorder doesn't support DTCP).

I'm curious--what recorder would that be? I'm not aware of any recording equipment with HD digital inputs which do not support HDCP, with the exception of HTCPs. Few people building HTPCs around HDTV were unaware of DTCP--it was around since the beginning of HD broadcasting. (Panasonic's first D-VHS deck, which shipped the middle of the year after HD broadcasting began in November, had 1394/DTCP--they shipped some sort of satellite tuner with a Firewire output that could be used with it).

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post #650 of 1154 Old 02-11-2005, 07:09 AM
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Hi Guys,

They added a new HD channel in my area today. In our local forum, many of us had to reboot to get this on our channel line up. I had to.

The was CBS in HD so I went into my recordings list and deleted all my analog recordings on CBS. I then tried to record them on the HD channel. It went through all the motions but at the end it did not set itself to record.

I seem to recall seeing this problem somewhere and I did do a search but I can't find it. This is happening on all my channels not just the new HD channel.

Anyone know what's up? SARA 1.85.17.3

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post #651 of 1154 Old 02-14-2005, 05:17 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by hookbill
The was CBS in HD so I went into my recordings list and deleted all my analog recordings on CBS. I then tried to record them on the HD channel. It went through all the motions but at the end it did not set itself to record.

I seem to recall seeing this problem somewhere and I did do a search but I can't find it. This is happening on all my channels not just the new HD channel.

Anyone know what's up? SARA 1.85.17.3

What has typically been done is to turn the box off, then pull the power cord to the box for a few minutes. Then plug back in and let the box boot up fresh again. This does a clean reboot and usually fixes this issue after this.
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post #652 of 1154 Old 02-14-2005, 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by cdp1276
What has typically been done is to turn the box off, then pull the power cord to the box for a few minutes. Then plug back in and let the box boot up fresh again. This does a clean reboot and usually fixes this issue after this.

Actually that was the first thing I did and it didn't work. What happened was I ended up calling the cable company and the resent the signal. Now that has never worked for any problem I have ever had in the past but it did work that time. Amazing.

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post #653 of 1154 Old 02-14-2005, 05:06 PM
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vegggas posted a while back that when rebooting the box, you should actually hold the Power button for 10 seconds or so while plugging the power cord back in. I assume this results in a more complete reboot/reset than simply unplugging/plugging the power cord. Perhaps the code the cableco sent accomplished the same thing. Obviously it did more that just reboot the box since you had already tried that.

Cheers, Dave
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post #654 of 1154 Old 02-14-2005, 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
vegggas posted a while back that when rebooting the box, you should actually hold the Power button for 10 seconds or so while plugging the power cord back in. I assume this results in a more complete reboot/reset than simply unplugging/plugging the power cord. Perhaps the code the cableco sent accomplished the same thing. Obviously it did more that just reboot the box since you had already tried that.

You know I left it unplugged for sometime before I rebooted the thing too.

Well, so long as it's working. Last time they sent me a signal I had a hard time getting it to stay on auto, that didn't happen this time.

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post #655 of 1154 Old 02-16-2005, 01:00 PM
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Replaced my fuzzy-HD-image 8000HD with a 8300HD last week. Went from only 890 lines of horizontal rez to 1290 with 8300HD using HDNet's Tuesday 8 am Eastern test patterns into my CRT RPTV via YPbPr only. Someone else on NYC TWC's system measured 1280 lines yesterday into a fixed-pixel display (1366 max). Curious if others on different cable systems measure similar maximum horizontal resolutions. Used this pattern-measurement technique . -- John
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post #656 of 1154 Old 02-16-2005, 07:56 PM
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John,
A lot of us with more dedicated cable systems (single vendor) do not have HDnet to do comparisons yet. I have talked to INHD though, and they said they will be introducing test patterns "sometime soon". These will be global across the cable systems for better comparisons and testing.

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post #657 of 1154 Old 02-16-2005, 08:40 PM
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vegggas, INHD introduced their HD Tuneup earlier this month. They've been running it early (5:00) Sat mornings.

Cheers, Dave
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post #658 of 1154 Old 02-17-2005, 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
vegggas, INHD introduced their HD Tuneup earlier this month. They've been running it early (5:00) Sat mornings.

That would be 8:00 est.

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post #659 of 1154 Old 02-17-2005, 05:20 AM
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Recorded the "INHD Tune Up" a while back, but unfortunately they neglected to put a resolution test pattern on it. Looked up the next cablecast using the very handy 8300HD search feature and found it's set for 7 am Eastern this Saturday, 2/19.

vegggas,
Hope more cable systems supply HDNet and its Tuesday 8 am Eastern 10-minute test patterns--or INHD adds resolution wedges, too. With enough measurements of maximum horizontal resolution from cable systems, perhaps with comparisons to DirecTV or big-dish HDNet-delivered test patterns, a better picture of rate-shaping, or DirecTV's deliberate format reductions, could be formed.

Looked up Gary Merson's review of the Toshiba LCoS RPTV in the May/June '03 "The Perfect Vision." Using DirecTV/HDNet he measured ~1700X1080 lines, then 1920X1080 resolution with his test-pattern generator. So it would be interesting to see if HDNet still is delivering at least ~1700X1080, via any source, and whether the two ~1285 readings mentioned for my TWC system--about 24% less--result from cable/DBS rate shaping or compression, HDNet pattern/delivery limitations, display limitations, or other reasons. -- John
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post #660 of 1154 Old 02-17-2005, 05:31 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by John Mason
Recorded the "INHD Tune Up" a while back, but unfortunately they neglected to put a resolution test pattern on it. Looked up the next cablecast using the very handy 8300HD search feature and found it's set for 7 am Eastern this Saturday, 2/19.

John

John, thanks for the update on this. I'm interested in checking out their test pattern vs HDNET. I thought 8:00 est because DoubleDAZ lives in AZ and I forgot they are one of those states that don't change time.

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