The Official R5000-HD Technical Status Discussion - Page 79 - AVS Forum
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post #2341 of 2773 Old 10-30-2009, 12:48 PM
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Knock on wood, I haven't had mine go over 10%-15%. This has been the case recording to a clunky USB disk with 4K clusters/fat32 or dual high performance RAID class SATA disks RAID-0'ed with 128k stripe width/64k NTFS clusters.

We have been focusing a lot on the bandwidth/latency to a local logical disk, including me. I know some people have issues with too much buffer used or the first 5 minutes being skipped. However, I think we might overlooking a few key items:

-Available bandwidth on the USB bus the R5000 is on (unlikely the case)
-Performance/compatibility issues with some USB 2.0 hub chipsets & respective drivers (or other devices on the USB hub).
-Performance/compatibility issues with some RAID/AHCI chipsets & respective drivers

I can confirm good compatibility with the two technologies below:

- 7 port Belkin USB Hub (SMSC USB2707 chipset)
- Intel ICH8 32bit (RAID mode)

There is a very good chance the person/people who made the generic R5000 interface driver only bothered testing on a couple of types machines. I know for a fact that making usb-based drivers can get pretty hairy; especially for devices that stream data that are performance sensitive. I'm sure that probably why there are programmer tools such as USB port analyzers/tracers.

Can your HTPC Media Center / DVR Do this??

SageTV: Unrestricted full-quality 12 tuner HD Premium Cable recording, including "On Demand" in HD + OTA ATSC + DVB-S2 + Blu-ray/HD-DVD serving 5 clients.
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post #2342 of 2773 Old 10-31-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

Did you use 64K clusters on the storage volumes that are being used for recordings? Depending on how the code handles writes, default windows configs sometimes have issues with write performance.

I am pretty sure I formatted the drives on the old system with 64k cluster size. But now that I am trying to check, I am not sure. I found one post saying to use the System Information tool to find this information. The strange thing there is that when I run that tool is that I don't find something called cluster size. I am sure it is there just named something different. Here is the output.

Code:
Description     Disk drive
Manufacturer    (Standard disk drives)
Model   ST3500630AS
Bytes/Sector    512
Media Loaded    Yes
Media Type      Fixed	hard disk media
Partitions      1
SCSI Bus        0
SCSI Logical Unit       0
SCSI Port       1
SCSI Target ID  0
Sectors/Track   63
Size    465.76 GB (500,105,249,280 bytes)
Total Cylinders 60,801
Total Sectors   976,768,065
Total Tracks    15,504,255
Tracks/Cylinder 255
Partition       Disk #1, Partition #0
Partition Size  465.76 GB (500,105,217,024 bytes)
Partition Starting Offset       32,256 bytes
I will keep looking for a definitive answer.

Greg
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post #2343 of 2773 Old 10-31-2009, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmv View Post

Greg,

More about the configuration...are you using the Proxy app?, What OS are you using? Is SageTV your front end? Although the drives are "local" are they seen as local, or are you using a network address?

FYI, I have a Q9450, and use the old app w/o the proxy, have the sometimes miss the first 5 min issue, but never loose a recording once started, but some recordings have playback issues (skip randomly).

I have a very fast RAID array (500MB/s) and the indicator always sits below the mid-point on the "pushing it" scale.

mv

I am running Windows XP Pro. I am not using the Proxy App as I understand that the latest version includes that code and isn't needed.
I am using SageTV as the front end and the recording directory is specified as a local drive. I was using a UNC path initially (because of migrating to the new hardware) and that seemed worse. I change Sage and it got better.

What is your RAID setup that you are getting 500 MB/s?

I am using two stand alone drives (no raid). They are Seagate 7200.10 500 GB drives.


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post #2344 of 2773 Old 10-31-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post


I can confirm good compatibility with the two technologies below:

- 7 port Belkin USB Hub (SMSC USB2707 chipset)
- Intel ICH8 32bit (RAID mode)

You are listing the hub you have it connected to, but wouldn't the on board USB chipset also be important in your case?

I am using the USB controller and SATA controller built into the P55 chipset for the new Core i5.

Device Manager lists the USB as:
Intel 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller

Sata controller as:
Intel 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family 4 port Serial ATA Storage Controller

Greg
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post #2345 of 2773 Old 10-31-2009, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregveres View Post

I will keep looking for a definitive answer.

Greg

Hmm, I just did a chkdsk on one of my 500GB drives and it said 4096 bytes in each allocation unit. So I think I need to reformat the drives.

Now I just need somewhere to put 500GB of files for a couple hours.

Greg
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post #2346 of 2773 Old 10-31-2009, 01:09 PM
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I think I found my issue. One of my 500GB drives had 4k cluster size and the other had 64k cluster size.

I think when I noticed it performing poorly, it was recording to 4k drive. I will fix that.

Greg
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post #2347 of 2773 Old 10-31-2009, 01:40 PM
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Greg,

I've got an Areca raid card with 12 1TB Seagate drives in Raid 6 configuration to get my 500MB/s.

let us know how the 4K to 64K cluster change works out. I am still using the old App and Driver, I read through the posts when people were testing it out and it seemed like the majority concensus was to return to the old app / proxy setup as they were having more issues with the new version, so you might want to try that as well.

mv
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post #2348 of 2773 Old 10-31-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregveres View Post

You are listing the hub you have it connected to, but wouldn't the on board USB chipset also be important in your case?

I am using the USB controller and SATA controller built into the P55 chipset for the new Core i5.

Device Manager lists the USB as:
Intel 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller

Sata controller as:
Intel 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family 4 port Serial ATA Storage Controller

Greg

I wonder if this is related to your problem: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/31/i...pset-to-blame/

Looks like the P55 has some issues with USB compatibility. You might try and addon card and see if it fixes it.
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post #2349 of 2773 Old 10-31-2009, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

I wonder if this is related to your problem: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/31/i...pset-to-blame/

Looks like the P55 has some issues with USB compatibility. You might try and addon card and see if it fixes it.

I too have been bitten by bad USB chipset quirkiness.. not with the R-5000, but with some pro-audio adapters that are very picky in timing. I've found the most across teh board acceptance from NEC chipsets. They are very common on $5-$25 PCI and PCIe boards, so you're not out much in trying. monoprice.com sells some that are specified to have the NEC chipset.
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post #2350 of 2773 Old 11-01-2009, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

I wonder if this is related to your problem: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/31/i...pset-to-blame/

Looks like the P55 has some issues with USB compatibility. You might try and addon card and see if it fixes it.

Thanks for pointing that out. The second guy to post has the exact same motherboard I have.

I guess I should start looking for a USB add-on board.

Greg
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post #2351 of 2773 Old 11-01-2009, 10:34 AM
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I probably should have presumed it goes without saying that the Intel ICH8 embedded controller shares the chipset thats responsible for hosting USB as well on the same motherboard. Intel makes a pretty popular "ICHx" series chipset which supports both USB and SATA/RAID. So, just to explain more more clearly.

I can confirm good compatibility with the two technologies below (Vista32):
- Intel ICH8 (USB host controller) and (SATA controller)
- 7 port Belkin USB Hub (SMSC USB2707 chipset) <--R5000's connected to

PS: You guys might have also missed that I was able to record to a USB hard disk (non-sata) with 4Kb clusters. So, although this only allowed me to record from one R5000 with nothing else bandwidth intensive going on the USB bus, the R5000 DVR app buffer was still below 30%. I was just trying to say that although adding 300MB/sec RAID and 64kb clusters will make a world of difference to comfortaby handle more than one stream, it wont necessarily help the other issues affecting just one stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET

I can confirm good compatibility with the two technologies below:

- 7 port Belkin USB Hub (SMSC USB2707 chipset)
- Intel ICH8 32bit (RAID mode)




Quote:
Originally Posted by gregveres View Post

You are listing the hub you have it connected to, but wouldn't the on board USB chipset also be important in your case?

I am using the USB controller and SATA controller built into the P55 chipset for the new Core i5.

Device Manager lists the USB as:
Intel 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller

Sata controller as:
Intel 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family 4 port Serial ATA Storage Controller

Greg


Can your HTPC Media Center / DVR Do this??

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post #2352 of 2773 Old 11-02-2009, 05:25 AM
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Seeing that you have been able to record to a usb drive w/ 30%, it made me wonder what type of source you are recording.

Was that recording of SD or HD? Is your provider using H.264 or MPEG2?

I am mostly recording HD from StarChoice that is MPEG2, I think this is the most bandwidth demanding and when I am recording this is it always around 66% when working well.

Greg
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post #2353 of 2773 Old 11-02-2009, 07:45 AM
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Folks,

Don't know if those of you interested in adding the R5000 or another R5000, it looks like Nextcom is offering "refurbished units" for 50% off. I just bought a third for DCTxxxx unit for 219 + shipping...I think this was cheaper then the old buy 2+ get 50% off...which I didn't do since I only wanted 1 more .

mv
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post #2354 of 2773 Old 11-02-2009, 08:06 AM
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Good question. I dont record SD with my R5000s. However, I do record Comcast's overcompressed mpeg2 "HD" channels (Usually around 6mbps... below picture was taken with around 5.5mbps)... however, it can vary anywhere from 4.8mbps-10mbps. Im using the "Compressed (no filler pkts)" option in the R5000 DVR software.



PS: Thanks for the tip JMV! It would be good to have a couple of spare kits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregveres View Post

Seeing that you have been able to record to a usb drive w/ 30%, it made me wonder what type of source you are recording.

Was that recording of SD or HD? Is your provider using H.264 or MPEG2?

I am mostly recording HD from StarChoice that is MPEG2, I think this is the most bandwidth demanding and when I am recording this is it always around 66% when working well.

Greg


Can your HTPC Media Center / DVR Do this??

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post #2355 of 2773 Old 11-02-2009, 09:00 AM
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Running 2 R5000HD Streams of HD data, I am getting ~110~140 mbits/stream, my disk IO is running between 8~13 MB/sec.

I am doing something weird (running 2x R5000 app as "admin" while Sage is logged in as "Mike"), so unfortunately, I can't figure out how to pull the pushing it info, but I'll work on that.

Hey MKA net, that is a 3.1 screen capture...I thought you dropped 3.1 and were back on 3.0? Wassup with that ?
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post #2356 of 2773 Old 11-02-2009, 09:33 AM
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I was planning on going back to 3.0 + proxy. I was giving the R5000 people a few more weeks before switching back. I dont have any stability issues with 3.1c; but there's only so much of the "port is already in use" bug I can tolerate. I'm due to reimage my server in 2 weeks, that's when I'll revert back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmv View Post

Hey MKA net, that is a 3.1 screen capture...I thought you dropped 3.1 and were back on 3.0? Wassup with that ?


Can your HTPC Media Center / DVR Do this??

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post #2357 of 2773 Old 11-02-2009, 11:21 AM
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Nextcomm has a new 3.1d out on their download site (I think the link is somewhere a few pages back). I've been using if for a little over a week with no Port In Use issues. I did have one corrupted video since I started testing this new version but I was having occasional issues with 3.0c along these same lines so I don't think is its related to 3.1d

- Chad
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post #2358 of 2773 Old 11-02-2009, 11:33 AM
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I wish there was a way for us to be notified when there's a new version. Here I am strugging with 3.0c waiting for their webpage to be updated. I even checked today on their webpage and didn't see it. I just downloaded it directly from their directory listing on their webserver. Thanks for letting us know! Maybe next time someone would be nice enought to post here when there's a new release.

Edit: I just tried it, the port issue doesnt happen anymore, neither does the weird focus issue when switching from one tab to the next between 4 devices. If they fixed the cosmetic bugs that affected me, I'll be set.



Quote:
Originally Posted by camtexas View Post

Nextcomm has a new 3.1d out on their download site (I think the link is somewhere a few pages back). I've been using if for a little over a week with no Port In Use issues. I did have one corrupted video since I started testing this new version but I was having occasional issues with 3.0c along these same lines so I don't think is its related to 3.1d

- Chad


Can your HTPC Media Center / DVR Do this??

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post #2359 of 2773 Old 11-02-2009, 02:43 PM
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ok, I give up...how do you get to 3.1d...I tried using the links to vista 32 and vista 64 multi replacing the 31c with 31d and both gave me nada...

mv
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post #2360 of 2773 Old 11-02-2009, 08:20 PM
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Browse to the directory and you'll get a full listing...

http://nextcomwireless.com/R5000/download/install/
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post #2361 of 2773 Old 11-03-2009, 09:04 PM
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I've also switched to the 3.1d... haven't seen the 'port already open' bug since, though i did have a whoel day of botched recordings after updating.. (I had just closed the app, updated, and re-run it... after a reboot, it's running flawlessly again...

So... Close app... Extract 3.1d... reboot...
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post #2362 of 2773 Old 11-03-2009, 09:44 PM
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Has anybody used a USB card with the NEC chipset? The local computer store has a USB card with that chipset for $13.

Greg
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post #2363 of 2773 Old 11-03-2009, 10:10 PM
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Is anybody getting "Program not found, waiting ..." message when it tries to record?

I am getting two types of errors. One is when it starts to record and then stops and the second error is that it just tries to record and it doesn't find the program.

Any suggestions on the can't find the program?

Thanks
Greg
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post #2364 of 2773 Old 11-04-2009, 12:12 AM
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I tried the latest version and I'm getting some trouble with recordings (using SageTV).

I tried to revert back to the previous version I was using (3.0c), and use the previous driver (I believe 2.4e). But I couldn't get the R5000 application to recognize the device.

I keep getting stuck on step 4 of this installation guide: http://nextcomwireless.com/R5000/dvr...dvr_manual.htm

The "New Hardware Wizard" never starts again.

Any ideas?
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post #2365 of 2773 Old 11-04-2009, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregveres View Post

Has anybody used a USB card with the NEC chipset? The local computer store has a USB card with that chipset for $13.

Greg

I bought this card a while back to see if it would do any better, but it actually does much worse than the built in usb on both motherboards I've had as my sage server. TONS of failed transfers, totally unusable. Maybe it's just a crappy card, I don't know. YMMV
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post #2366 of 2773 Old 11-04-2009, 07:13 AM
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I switched from 3.0c WITH the proxy to 3.1d WITOUT proxy last night. The port in use errors seem to have disapeared. I've only done minimal testing, but it seems to be working ok so far.
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post #2367 of 2773 Old 11-04-2009, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregveres View Post

Is anybody getting "Program not found, waiting ..." message when it tries to record?

I am getting two types of errors. One is when it starts to record and then stops and the second error is that it just tries to record and it doesn't find the program.

Any suggestions on the can't find the program?

Thanks
Greg

Try increasing the record delay. In versions prior to 3.1c, you set it in the config file:

RecDelay: 3000

In 3.1c and later, it's in Options->Preferences->Tweaks->New Stream Delay

I have mine set to 3000.
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post #2368 of 2773 Old 11-04-2009, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peternm22 View Post

I tried the latest version and I'm getting some trouble with recordings (using SageTV).

I tried to revert back to the previous version I was using (3.0c), and use the previous driver (I believe 2.4e). But I couldn't get the R5000 application to recognize the device.

I keep getting stuck on step 4 of this installation guide: http://nextcomwireless.com/R5000/dvr...dvr_manual.htm

The "New Hardware Wizard" never starts again.

Any ideas?

You're probably not getting the driver reverted. I've repeatedly had trouble getting the newer driver installed on my vista machine when trying to upgrade to 3.1c/3.1d. Try this, or some variation:
  • Unplug your r5000 devices
  • Go to C:\\Windows\\System32\\drivers and delete NxtcmUSB.sys
  • Uninstall r5000 app if not already done
  • Install old version or r5000 app
  • Reboot
  • Plug only 1 r5000 usb back in (if you have more than 1)
  • go throug driver install, after install, check C:\\Windows\\System32\\drivers to make sure correct version of driver is there
  • unplug 1st device, delete NxtcmUSB.sys from C:\\Windows\\System32\\drivers, plug in 2nd device, make sure correct version of driver in C:\\Windows\\System32\\drivers
  • lather, rinse, (maybe reboot), repeat as needed

Good luck.
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post #2369 of 2773 Old 11-04-2009, 09:22 AM
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Thanks for the reply.

I'll try the steps when I get home. I think if I plug the R5000 in to a different USB port, it may force it to reinstall...


Also, I'm getting recordings that are starting late with the new R5000 software. I checked the logs for SageTV, and SageTV seems to initially think the R5000 is no longer connected/running even though it is.

Would the proxy software previously spoken about fix this?

Thanks.
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post #2370 of 2773 Old 11-04-2009, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boiler11 View Post

I bought this card a while back to see if it would do any better, but it actually does much worse than the built in usb on both motherboards I've had as my sage server. TONS of failed transfers, totally unusable. Maybe it's just a crappy card, I don't know. YMMV

Thanks, From the photos on the newegg site, it looks like that has the NEC chipset. I guess I will keep looking. I noticed that tigerdirect has one with the Via chipset.

I think might be that my MFT table is fragmented and full. I am installing diskeeper right now to defrag and extend the table. I am getting constant failures right now, so I should be able to see if this fixes the situation.

Greg
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