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post #181 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 09:42 AM
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I can totally understand why Moto (and Comcast) didn't put much effort into the MPEG2 compressor on this box *if* they are certain they are rolling out digital simulcast within the next 6-12 months. After that, I assume the digital boxes will just hide the analog channels altogether and all we'll see is digital quality (and probably better than they can offer on satellite because they aren't as bandwidth constrained). By contrast, the S-video output on the unit is phenominal when watching digital channels, so the A-to-D may suck, but it will be meaningless at some point in the near future; the D-to-A is great and that will be something many of us who use S-video or component will need for the long haul.

I just switched from Dish to Comcast to get this DVR. (Dish's DVR software is the *worst* on the market, with the exception of the Dishplayer 7200, which is showing its age.) But even with Dish, I *never* watched the SDTV channels on my big screen (92" Firehawk + Dwin TV3). They are so overcompressed that they even sometimes look funky on my Toshiba 36" tube.

Does anybody know the by-region rollout schedule for the simulcasts? (Ok, I know it's a little OT, but both the iGuide and MSTV forums are buzzing with complaints about this converter and it might be moot in a few months.)

I'm actually thinking of using Media Center Edition for recording SDTV and saving the 6412's limited drive space for HDTV. It's less convenient and has lower WAF (wife acceptance factor), but it will also allow me to use the media center extender to watch SDTV elsewhere in the house. I just ordered the XBOX extender version from Dell.

My gripe/wish: I really wish there was some way to use the USB2 or Firewire port to extend the storage. I assume that recorded shows are somehow copy protected anyway, so it would seem that there would be no problem allowing those of us who want to plug in external storage should be able to do so. Barring that--anybody get daring enough to swap out the HD for a bigger one yet??

-x
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post #182 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 10:24 AM
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Is there a way to tell the 6412 to use the source resolution of the material instead of forcing the output to 720p or 1080i?

I'm assuming that the scaler in the Dwin TV3 (native resolution 720p) can better convert 1080i channels to 720p than the one built into the 6412. And I think it would be a shame to have the 6412 upconvert 720p channels to 1080i just to have them downconverted back to 720p.

And manually changing resolutions on the fly is not possible on the 6412 unless you can truly power off the unit (which doesn't work if anything is recording).

-x
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post #183 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 11:32 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by adbo
Anyone living in Lynnwood, Mill Creek, or Everett area gotten one of these HD DRVs? Is it available for people in Snohomish County?

I'm in Mill Creek and I got mine last Tuesday
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post #184 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 12:08 PM
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My gripe/wish: I really wish there was some way to use the USB2 or Firewire port to extend the storage. I assume that recorded shows are somehow copy protected anyway, so it would seem that there would be no problem allowing those of us who want to plug in external storage should be able to do so. Barring that--anybody get daring enough to swap out the HD for a bigger one yet??

Firewire is active ! as was on the 6200 , you can record HDTV via a D-VHS recorder! this includes encrypted content as the D-VHS recorders are 5C compliant. (macs and PCs are another option as well but not for encrypted content)

Now the only Q I have is: can you record via firewire while playing back DVR recorded HDTV? anyone?

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post #185 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 12:12 PM
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Far as I can tell, all outputs send the same video (& audio), just in different format.

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post #186 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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More answers:

Art - Without getting too defensive, let me just say that this software met MS, Comcast and Motorola release requirements. Sometimes there are bugs that get missed in all the extensive testing. Sometimes things don't get configured right in the field. Software is hard stuff.

Original HD resolution question - What you're looking for is what I refer to as "native mode" where the video output mode adjusts to be the same as the content. We have requested this capability from Motorola.

Analog PQ - As others have stated, this is not a function of the MSTV software. One thing to look into is the number of splits in the cable leading up to the box and the quality of the wiring and connectors. It's analog so it is sensitive to splits, noisy splitters/amps, bad connections, etc. I would suggest having at most one split of your cable before it gets to the 6412. If you have to split it more, try and do it from a leg that is isolated from the 6412. Use RG6 QS wiring with quality connectors. I'm not saying that will fix everything but it may help.

-Shan [MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
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post #187 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 02:09 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by shannonv
More answers:
...
Original HD resolution question - What you're looking for is what I refer to as "native mode" where the video output mode adjusts to be the same as the content. We have requested this capability from Motorola.
...

Shannon: do you believe that this is something Moto can upgrade on the existing 6412 and deploy to existing owners with an automatic update? If so, please keep requesting!! ;-) And let us know if you hear it's coming, this isn't the kind of thing one is likely to check for regularly.

Quote:


Originally posted by WiFi-Spy
Firewire is active ! as was on the 6200 , you can record HDTV via a D-VHS recorder! this includes encrypted content as the D-VHS recorders are 5C compliant. (macs and PCs are another option as well but not for encrypted content)

Now the only Q I have is: can you record via firewire while playing back DVR recorded HDTV? anyone?

WiFi: I was actually hoping for something more simple than D-VHS when I posed my question. I've been spoiled by DVRs and Media Center and I don't want to go back to VCRs... What I was thinking is just plugging in a USB2 or Firewire off-the-shelf hard drive to use as additional storage for myDVR events. Just treat the second drive as an extension of the existing HD... or let me mark shows to archive in the myDVR menu and have it copy them to the drive in the background or when the DVR is inactive and let me browse my archival storage as a separate myDVR list.

I'm sure it's not as easy as that (Shannon can say for sure), but, again, assuming that content that needs to be protected (HBOHD, for example) is protected, this should be feasible. After all, if you can do it with DVHS or complicated firewire recording to a PC, it's not a content protection issue.

-x
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post #188 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 02:55 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by shannonv
Art - Without getting too defensive, let me just say that this software met MS, Comcast and Motorola release requirements. Sometimes there are bugs that get missed in all the extensive testing. Sometimes things don't get configured right in the field. Software is hard stuff.

Shannon - Yes, I know it's hard stuff.. I've worked for four software developers, including doing UI design, usability testing, and end-user training. And, I will say your software is so much better than TVGuide's. No, it may not be perfect, but it is very good.

My biggest complaint has nothing to do with your software, but the artifacts now visible in the analog signals. And, that's not entirely the fault of the DVR... I think Comcast doesn't have the best signal for some Seattle channels to begin with... at least here in the Skagit Valley.

Art Shotwell
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post #189 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 03:06 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by artshotwell
My biggest complaint has nothing to do with your software, but the artifacts now visible in the analog signals. And, that's not entirely the fault of the DVR...

I assume their digital simulcast will solve these problems... now if we can only find out when they roll it out in the Seattle area...

-x
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post #190 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 05:48 PM
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does anyone know if the 6412 is *nix based?? or what File system does it use?

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post #191 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 06:14 PM
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does anyone know if the 6412 is *nix based?? or what File system does it use?

The 6412 is not any operating system based. However, it's a safe bet that 6412 using the MSFT version is running some form of Windows, (Windows CE?) and using NTFS (FAT and FAT32 are too limiting and I doubt they invented a whole new file system just for DVRs). Course, maybe they're running Longhorn.
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post #192 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 06:47 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by xkode2002
I assume their digital simulcast will solve these problems... now if we can only find out when they roll it out in the Seattle area...

Has Comcast rolled out digital simulcast anywhere? Have they publically commited to it? Any general time frame for the entire US, like "2005" or will it take longer?

Just curious because it is only now that I got my HDTV this week that I even heard about digital simulcast of analog stations to prevent quality loss. Thanks!

Samsung HL-P4663WX DLP HDTV
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post #193 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 07:26 PM
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The major problem I have with the new box right now is that the box shuts itself down at least once a day, sometimes more often. Normally I keep the box on, cause I have my ReplayTV connected to it. I first noticed the problem when my Replay failed to record some early morning shows, because the cable box was turned off. Then I noticed a divided movie recording on my DVR (6412), with a note saying that there was a power failure during recording. Then finally today, it happened in the middle of the day while I was watching a movie. The box just went off, LED display showed ---. I was watching it time delayed and lost my buffer
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post #194 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 07:30 PM
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some interesting pics:

one is of a 6200

one is of my 6412

notice on the 6412 the 10bT ethernet port says installed......*goes to dig out a 50ft ethernet cable*

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post #195 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 07:30 PM
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here is the 6412 pic

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post #196 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 08:00 PM
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What does the ethernet connection do for you?

How did you get this menu, BTW?

-x
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post #197 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 08:53 PM
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push the "ok/enter" button while the box is off

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post #198 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 09:15 PM
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on a side note about the File System: I found this screen interesting...

notice "GPFS"

a search on google finds GPFS = General Parallel File System for Linux......

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post #199 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 10:58 PM
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The screen shot for the 6412 suggests that the Ethernet port is 10Mbit instead of 100Mbit. That will not be very good for possible future support of streaming video to other rooms.
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post #200 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 11:16 PM
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Im extremely upset with this DVR because you cannot record or dvr the nba league pass games on channels 441-450, i called comcast and they said it was because these are considered pay per view channels?? what a crock, there not ppv, i paid for a subscription to this service not ppv. directivo lets you record nba league pass games, so i know its a comcast thing and i too agree the local analog channels are crap, this doesnt seem right,subscribing to comcast is a love hate thing!!!!!!!!!!
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post #201 of 1587 Old 11-21-2004, 11:36 PM
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At least you get the package. I couldn't get my in-car Nascar channels all day. They never could figure it out. Really ticked me off.
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post #202 of 1587 Old 11-22-2004, 12:37 AM
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There is a padlock symbol atop my DVR menu, but it does not show for any other menu option. What exactly is the padlock symbol telling me? I haven't locked anything as far as I can tell.
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post #203 of 1587 Old 11-22-2004, 05:08 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dandd
The screen shot for the 6412 suggests that the Ethernet port is 10Mbit instead of 100Mbit. That will not be very good for possible future support of streaming video to other rooms.

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Motorola doesn't plan on using Ethernet to stream video the way Tivo and ReplayTV currently do.

Motorola is going to use HMA technology. HMA is an IP-over-coaxial technology. This will allow HMA equipped STB's to share video. This seems like a much better method of in-home STB data/video transfer since we won't be bound to Ethernet speeds.

See the Press Release here:
http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/...504_23,00.html
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post #204 of 1587 Old 11-22-2004, 12:22 PM
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I know that this is an HDTV Recorder thread, but I'm having a bit of trouble transfering 4X3 non-hdtv signals to my JVC D-VHS deck trough the 1394 connection on the moto 6412. The only reason that this comes up is that there are a number of "old" 1930s and 1940s movies that I would like to archive in the best quality possible (ie digital), which were only done in 4X3.

When I record non-HDTV 4X3 programs and then transfer them to my JVC D-VHS, the image is postioned all the way to the left and the right hand side is filled with electronic "garbage". This problem exists with any non-letterboxed/non-hdtv programming that is recorded on the 6412.

Does anybody know how to set the 1394 output so the 4X3 image is "centered"?

Many thanks if there are any "experts" out there who have solved this problem.
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post #205 of 1587 Old 11-22-2004, 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by uliving
I know that this is an HDTV Recorder thread,

Actually, it's the Comcast/Microsoft-TV thread - definitely not the right place for your question. Try one of the other threads like "How to record via 1394/Firewire to WindowsXP".
Quote:


but I'm having a bit of trouble transfering 4X3 non-hdtv signals to my JVC D-VHS deck trough the 1394 connection on the moto 6412. The only reason that this comes up is that there are a number of "old" 1930s and 1940s movies that I would like to archive in the best quality possible (ie digital), which were only done in 4X3.

When I record non-HDTV 4X3 programs and then transfer them to my JVC D-VHS, the image is postioned all the way to the left and the right hand side is filled with electronic "garbage". This problem exists with any non-letterboxed/non-hdtv programming that is recorded on the 6412.

Does anybody know how to set the 1394 output so the 4X3 image is "centered"?...

This has been discussed a couple times in those other HD Recording threads. As I recall - it's a limitation of the JVC deck coupled with Comcast/Motorola's use of slightly non-standard timings for SD output thru firewire. For whatever reason, the JVC deck doesn't correctly deal with these timings. I think the only answer was either JVC or Motorola would have to change their hardware....
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post #206 of 1587 Old 11-22-2004, 12:49 PM
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Thx Jimre
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post #207 of 1587 Old 11-22-2004, 01:21 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by markjrenna
Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Motorola doesn't plan on using Ethernet to stream video the way Tivo and ReplayTV currently do.

Motorola is going to use HMA technology. ...

Thanks for the link. This technology looks as if it can meet the need of networking the DVR. I found a fact sheet on the Motorola site that says HMA would be ready for deployment in Q404. I wonder if Comcast/Microsoft has any plans to support it.

Hopefully they will come up with a gateway that connects HMA to the home Ethernet so that music and photo files stored on a PC can be piped around as well.
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post #208 of 1587 Old 11-22-2004, 03:06 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dandd
Thanks for the link. This technology looks as if it can meet the need of networking the DVR. I found a fact sheet on the Motorola site that says HMA would be ready for deployment in Q404. I wonder if Comcast/Microsoft has any plans to support it.

Hopefully they will come up with a gateway that connects HMA to the home Ethernet so that music and photo files stored on a PC can be piped around as well.

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Comcast (Brian Roberts) has already said they are very excited about offering this technology. I would expect to read more about it in 2005 and see become reality it by year end 05 in a successor Motorola STB.
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post #209 of 1587 Old 11-22-2004, 03:33 PM
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I just noticed that the "Saved Program" button on the first OnDemand page provides no functionality at all. With the old s/w you got a list of movies and such that you had interrupted, so you could easily resume viewing. Now you have to go through the entire VOD tree to find the title again, assuming you can remember what and where it was. Not good. Perhaps it works for the pay movies, but I'm not about to try that.
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post #210 of 1587 Old 11-22-2004, 03:34 PM
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Can one of the MS people tell me whether it would be a technical challenge to have drives on my HTPC appear as additional storage via Firewire? A couple of good 3-4 hour HD operas- like Der Fleidermaus on Discovery HD Theater last week- and the 120 gigs will be gone, with no way to archive for later re-viewing.

I understand the 5C issues, and I'd certainly be willing to play programs back only through the 6412, not the PC, if that were the tradeoff.

What I'm trying to find out initially is whether it's technically hard, and so a MS problem, or a matter of implementation, so a Comcast problem. I need to know who to bug before I run out of space.
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