Andy @16x9 - Publish PVHD1000 info????? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 02-12-2001, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Andy, you have obviously done a considerable amount of reverse engineering of the Panasonic PVHD1000 1394 protocol. Would you consider publishing or at least making your lab notes available to this forum? There are a number of us who would like to try and interface this VTR with 1394 equipped PC's. In addition to HDTV uses, this machine would make a hell of a backup tape drive with 45GB capacity.

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post #2 of 14 Old 02-13-2001, 07:22 AM
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Anyone know if there is a PC card that can take a firewire datastream and record it / play back via firewire out? I doubt it exists, but if so, it should alread be compatible with 16x9Time's product (HDVR-100).

If not, would 16x9Time consider making a version of your product that can record to a PC hard drive? (this would elminate the restrictions of short record times and high expenses of using a non-PC based solution).

Thanks,
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post #3 of 14 Old 02-13-2001, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by andy16x9:


What we'd be doing is giving away for free the information we learned at great expense to our potential competitors. This would be contrary to our best interests.

Publishing this information wouldn't do you any good, and wouldn't do us any good.

Well, I would be willing to pay for it.

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post #4 of 14 Old 02-13-2001, 09:17 PM
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TraderGordo wrote,
Quote:
Anyone know if there is a PC card that can take a firewire datastream and record it / play back via firewire out? I doubt it exists, but if so, it should alread be compatible with 16x9Time's product (HDVR-100).

If not, would 16x9Time consider making a version of your product that can record to a PC hard drive? (this would elminate the restrictions of short record times and high expenses of using a non-PC based solution).
There are a multitude of various products and packages with both hardware and software that capture data from firewire. For the most part, these are for Non Linear Editing.

Because the 169Time device uses a communication protocol that is very similar to DV (not exactly) to record true HDTV on ordinary DV and Digital8 equipment, it will be straight forward to "interface" the 169Time box to PCs.

I have heard that 169Time plans to certify certain existing packages for use with their product on the PC, or release their own package. Either or both. It's not known yet which. In another thread last night, there was mention of a virtual DV VCR for Linux based PCs. Stay tuned.



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post #5 of 14 Old 02-14-2001, 02:13 PM
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Richard, that is AWESOME news!
I will definitely be ordering one of the 16x9Time cards when they get these imminent features (hard drive recording and satelite source recording). Hope they can make a lot of those cards without a huge backlog.

I hope the PC interface allows the same type of functionality as the DV Camcorders where they can automatically begin recording when they receive the data stream without having to program it to record at a certain time.


-Gordo


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post #6 of 14 Old 02-14-2001, 02:50 PM
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Let me see if I understand how their product works, it sounds to me like it encapsulates HD-MPEG 2 video (from an 8VSB source) into a standard DV data stream. I think that this opens up some amazing possibilities.

In a perfect world, somebody (16x9?) should write a QuickTime codec that recognizes this encapsulated stream. Thus allowing all QuickTime native programs (Final Cut Pro, Adobe After Effects, Premiere, QuickTime Player, etc) to read and write this "Hybrid" HDTV format.

Imagine HDTV video editing on an iMac DV! Or better yet HDTV editing on a Titanium PowerBook G4 - WOW!!

Cool stuff!

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post #7 of 14 Old 02-15-2001, 01:12 AM
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Jeremy,
This comes from 16:9's web site.
Quote:
While a compatible DV VCR or camcorder is connected to the HDVR-100's firewire port, a special signal is visible on the viewfinder or the analog outputs of the VCR. This signal is not the actual high definition image. Instead it appears as a continuosly updating mosaic of color. At times the pattern almost takes on a discernable shape, but it is usually random and unlike anything usually seen.
So as much as I'd like to be able to import into Premiere and edit HD material, I don't think it's going to be that easy.
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post #8 of 14 Old 02-15-2001, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HDmike:
Jeremy,
This comes from 16:9's web site.
So as much as I'd like to be able to import into Premiere and edit HD material, I don't think it's going to be that easy.
I don't expect to be able to view the video from the camera's display, but if you designed a codec that recognized the actual MPEG-2 data inside the DV stream, you could certainly see the correct video on your computer monitor.

And yes, you are right, it wouldn't be easy, especially due to the fact that MPEG video is notoriously difficult to edit, because not every frame is a full frame of video (temporal compression). Most (but not all) MPEG editing systems require the video to be captured as all "I" frames. But with a bit of memory buffering, it is far from impossible to edit normal MPEG-2 video, several companies do it now. (D1 res, not HD-MPEG 2)

On the more humorous side, if they are able to create a QuickTime codec, great, but if you want to get your own HD video into your computer you will have to talk Direct TV or your local HD station to broadcast your video so you can record it... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Jeremy

[This message has been edited by JeremyNeish (edited 02-15-2001).]

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post #9 of 14 Old 02-15-2001, 11:02 AM
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It takes a very fast PC to decode the higher resolution HDTV signal and display it with a typical PC's display adapter hardware. Or it takes some additional co-processing hardware in the system to do the same job, a HiPix card for example. This limits the ability to display a full screen 1080i signal on the typical PC without extra hardware.

The DTC100 and its connected monitor could function as the display system and preclude the need for extra hardware.

It would also be possible to scale the image down, using fewer pixels to reduce the processing required and display it on the PC's monitor.

Another potential uses is exporting computer generated HD animation.


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post #10 of 14 Old 02-15-2001, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Back to the origional problem, it seems like a stock 1394 interface will not work. I know from my own tests you can't even put a 1394 hub between the DST50 and the PVHD1000. But here are some facts.

1) It is 1394 at least electrically and therefore standard TI chipsets can be used.

2) A P3 at 500mhz can easily transfer the 19.3 ATSC stream on and off disk, HiPix proves that.

3) The fact that 16x9 did it proves the interface can be cracked without help from Panasonic.

So, it looks like we need a custom 1394 interface card to get the PVHD1000 on and off the PCI buss. I will work on it. If and when I succeed I will consider making it a product.


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post #11 of 14 Old 02-15-2001, 12:23 PM
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I have no idea if this info helps anybody, but I somewhat sucessfully connected a PV-HD1000 to a ASUS P3B-1394 motherboard equipped PC. I was able to operate the transport controls and engage the record mode just fine, although it didn't actually record what I sent it. I tried both ULead software that came with the motherboard and VideoWave III. One package worked better than the other, but I can't recall which.

There were a few quirks, but otherwise it worked fine.

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post #12 of 14 Old 02-15-2001, 08:06 PM
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Jeremy said
Quote:
Most (but not all) MPEG editing systems require the video to be captured as all "I" frames. But with a bit of memory buffering, it is far
from impossible to edit normal MPEG-2 video, several companies do it now.
I have a Pinnacle DV-500. It's an MPEG-2 editing card and I do recall talk about converting to all (I frames). But my understanding is that Pinnacle is a bit non standard with their codec. I'll see how it acts when I get my 16x9 mod done.
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post #13 of 14 Old 02-16-2001, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyG:
I have no idea if this info helps anybody, but I somewhat sucessfully connected a PV-HD1000 to a ASUS P3B-1394 motherboard equipped PC. I was able to operate the transport controls and engage the record mode just fine, although it didn't actually record what I sent it. I tried both ULead software that came with the motherboard and VideoWave III. One package worked better than the other, but I can't recall which.

There were a few quirks, but otherwise it worked fine.


This seems about as far as anyone has gotten with a stock 1394 card. It is promissing however in that you can control the machine. I would appear that they stuck to at least some of the DV spec.

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post #14 of 14 Old 02-19-2001, 03:35 PM
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Glimmie,

Andy told me that you can send him an email to discuss this further.

hdtv@oro.net

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