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-   -   dish5000/mod timer problem (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdtv-recorders/48968-dish5000-mod-timer-problem.html)

gridleak 05-08-2001 04:23 PM

Occasionally my Dish5000 fails to cleanly tune to the channel selected by the timer. It acts like the signal is weak. The picture is broken up into massive blocks and the sound cuts in and out. Turning the 5000 off and on, or switching to the menu and back fixes the problem. It never happens when changing channels via the guide. I've had a few failed recordings because of this problem.

Has anybody else experienced this?

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

jrichards 05-08-2001 06:14 PM

Your modulator is going bad. I had a modulator do that then one day it didn't correct itself.
Jeff

rrg 05-09-2001 11:37 AM

Might it not also be possible (as discussed elsewhere on the Forum) that the output level of the modulator is marginal, and sometimes too low for the STB's tuner to lock?

In that case an outboard RF amp might help.

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Ron Gomes

gridleak 05-10-2001 11:25 AM

I added a CM 13db rf amp. So far so good. Thanks.

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

jrichards 05-10-2001 02:57 PM

The modulator is putting out a weak signal if the amp fixed it. This is a temporary fix as it will gradually degrade and then the amp won't even help.
Jeff

gridleak 05-10-2001 04:03 PM

According to Cheezmo repair or replacement is not an option with DN.
(see http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/012703.html )

It's hard to imagine that these things just wear out. Maybe they need a good wack/plug/unplug/reset/trychan4 routine occasionally.

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

gridleak 05-12-2001 03:31 PM

Pixle Problem Returns,
this time while manually switching back from the menu. Changing to other Dish HD channels had no effect. Changing channels (and back to 3) on the Panny had no effect. Only thing that restored picture was switching to the Dish 5000 off and on.

I went up in the attic to see if there was smoke coming out of the Dish 5000 and while messing with it I discovered that it has a RELAY in the input circuits. It clanks away when switching between OTA/Sat, on/off, etc. It's located inside the modulator in a little shielded box surounding the area where the two F connectors are. It's all soldered sealed so replacement of the relay is problematic (can't even see it). The purpose of the relay is to bypass the OTA antenna thru the modulator and on to the STB when the Dish 5000 is turned off. Since my problem is intermittent, I'm guessing that the relay is worn and occasionally fails to make clean connection between the 8VSB modulator output and the f-connector.

Since the relay is difficult to replace, one solution would be to cut come traces on the circuit board and short others to make a permanent connection between the modulator circuit and the output rf connector. That would eliminate the OTA option for the modulator but most people use an external gizmo for that anyway.

This relay might be a source of many of the modulator problems. If they weren't so rare I'd just buy another one. Thoughts on this would be appreciated.

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

DSperber 05-12-2001 11:57 PM

I recently purchased a JVC 5500 (JVC's version of the 5000,
which reports itself as a 5000 so that the HDTV software
works perfectly) from:

www.dishdirect.com (here in Dallas)

They had LOTS for sale, and they must have gotten them on
some kind of a closeout... because they were priced at only
$79!!!

So I'd recommend you contact them and replace your flaky
5000. It's too cheap a solution to pass up.

Joe Q 05-13-2001 02:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DSperber:
I recently purchased a JVC 5500 (JVC's version of the 5000,
which reports itself as a 5000 so that the HDTV software
works perfectly) from:

www.dishdirect.com (here in Dallas)

They had LOTS for sale, and they must have gotten them on
some kind of a closeout... because they were priced at only
$79!!!

So I'd recommend you contact them and replace your flaky
5000. It's too cheap a solution to pass up.
I went to their site and I can not find the 5000 or the HD modulator. It looks like this place is JUST for new subscribers.

Did you go there in person?
Do you know if they have any HD modulators?

I have a 5000 w HD modulator but would REALLY like a spare setup since this is a single point of failure so I am actively trying to find this pair.

Now that I finally have a great,reliable way to record with accessDTV, I will be really annoyed if(when) my 5000 goes kapoot.

Sure would appreciate an anwer.

Thanks,
Joe


gridleak 05-16-2001 12:06 PM

I finally had to replace the modulator to fix the problem. I definitely feel that the antenna relay is a weak point on these modulators.

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

h2ofun 05-16-2001 12:29 PM

So did you have to purchase a new demoluator or did Dish repair it?

I have had a few recordings where at the end the picture is all messed up. I have yet been able to get the patriot because of this. I have currently in the process of getting my DST50 replaced. Maybe my tape is bad. Boy, sure hope the domulator isnt the issue. Is there anyway to really test it? Seems like I have the issue sometime when I tape a long movie but am not sure. Am taping one today and will see what happens.

dave

gridleak 05-16-2001 04:01 PM

Dave, I had a spare (lucky me).

I find it very difficult to distinguish the cause of a bad recording. Most of my recordings are done by timer, so I can't verify the source PQ. Lately my "satellite recording" HD1000 has starting producing noisy results, mostly near the end of the recordings. I don't watch during the recording process so I couldn't tell if it was HBO/SHO, DN, weather, seagulls, modulator, STB, recorder, or tape. It always seemed to happen with a certain brand of tape so I decided the recorder needed to be worked on.

It's been three separate problems in a row (dish knocked out of alignment by some big bird, bad modulator relay, and now bad recorder). They all resulted in the same pixels around moving objects, green patches, etc. All I can be sure of is: if it happens when the Dish 5000 timer sets the channel then it's the modulator relay. If it happens towards the end of the tape it's probably the recorder (tape tension).

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

mkerdman 05-16-2001 05:36 PM

DSperber

Did they have Dish 5000 modulators too or just recivers?


Dave

Should I stay away from the Panasonic DST50?
Is the DST51 much better?
Has your HD-1000 worked without problems?


gridleak

Based on your experience should I buy a used HD-1000/DST50?


Murray Kerdman

gridleak 05-16-2001 06:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mkerdman:
...should I buy a used HD-1000/DST50?
I doubt there are any unused HD1000's any more. The 51 might be a better choice than the 50 and there might even be a new one somewhere. A factory updated 50 should be as good as a 51. If you gotta make tapes there's really no choice

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

mkerdman 05-16-2001 06:06 PM

gridleak

"factory updated 50"

Does Panasonic have an update policy on the 50; at what cost?

Murray Kerdman

gridleak 05-16-2001 06:18 PM

When Panasonic fixes the "blue sparkle" problem in the 50 they update the ROM firmware.

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

h2ofun 05-17-2001 12:42 PM

I am in the process of getting my DST50 replaced because of its known heat issue. It will be free as long as I send my old one back. Otherwise, my credit card has $1250 on it.
It will be sent back as soon as I get the replacement.

dave

Glimmie 05-17-2001 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gridleak:
According to Cheezmo repair or replacement is not an option with DN.
(see http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/012703.html )

It's hard to imagine that these things just wear out. Maybe they need a good wack/plug/unplug/reset/trychan4 routine occasionally.

Well, they have a legal problem then. Yoiu must support a product for seven years after it's discontinued. Now I'm sure a comapny can get a varience if parts are not available but looking inside the 5000 modulator, everything I see are current stock components.

Let's bushwhack them with this on the next tech forum. They CAN repair the modulators and are required by law to do so for six more years.

Furthermore these devices don't use vaccumm tubes. They shouldn't fade away. Transistors either work or they don't. They do not weaken like tubes did. The relay sounds like it is the culprit. I would just bypass it and use an external antenna swich.

gridleak 05-17-2001 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Glimmie:
I would just bypass it and use an external antenna swich.
For me it would be a last resort. I doubt Dish would be obligated to repair once traces have been cut.

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

jrichards 05-17-2001 03:23 PM

They only have to support it for 3 years.
Jeff

Glimmie 05-17-2001 03:44 PM

Just called Dish to stri up the hornets nest. Got to a manager level. They claimed:

1) initial CSR: They never made an HDTV modulator!

2) Supervisor: Yes, but they don't repair them, "Dish Depot has them in stock". I refuted that and after several more minutes on hold they confirmed Dish Depot has "RF modulators" for the 6000. No HDTV modulators. The next try was that a Korean company made these devices and cut off the supply to dish. Hmmm I been in electronics for many years, that HD modulator looks very American buit to me.
Once again I reiterated the FTC laws regarding product support. They asked what I wanted them to do. I said fix it and bill me the cost. They reiterated they can't do that. So I get to a manager.

3) Manager: They don't have repair facilities. Well I said you better get some or delagate some engineer to this task, or have several hundred run to keep as spares for customers that bought one. Otherwise, I will encourage a class action on this forum! Woops, a legal threat! Not to be handled on a managers meger salary. A Director of Service will call me tomorrow. I reminded him this is not about me, it's about all the customers at risk here.

Whether the discontinued these due to Hollywood pressure or simply because the 6000 was a better solution is irrelevant. They have a legal obligation to service their products as long as they are in business.

Glimmie 05-17-2001 03:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jrichards:
They only have to support it for 3 years.
Jeff

Well if that's true, they still have two to go!

gridleak 05-17-2001 04:05 PM

Could they meet their legal obligation by exchanging 5000/mod's for a 6000/OTA-plugin?

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

Ken H 05-18-2001 08:08 PM

I called Dish the other night. A technical supervisor confirmed that Dish will repair the 5000 and HD Modulator, in warranty, or out of warranty for a standard charge.

jrichards,
I believe Federal Law requires consumer electronics manufacturers to offer repair service for their equipment 7 years after it's taken off the market. Why do you say 3 years?

I think the bigger problem is finding a Dish CSR that will properly help you. I would ask for technical support and get a supervisor. The one I spoke with was named Lynn.

Perhaps one of the AVS members that has connections with Dish can check into this?



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"better living thru modern expensive electronics"
tm

gridleak 05-19-2001 02:13 PM

It would be good to know if anyone, recently, has gotten a 5000 modulator repaired or replaced by Dish.

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- gridleak... biased toward HD

Carl Romanik 05-19-2001 03:04 PM

An anecdotal data point:

I had sporadic problems a few weeks ago with the modulator, it would give badly pixelated picture and badly broken-up picture, and showed around a 30 signal strength on the HiPix receiver. I attempted to re-seat it in its socket (it's really just a card-edge connector) by loosening the screws, wiggling it, and re-tightening the screws. Been fine since then.

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Carl


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