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post #1 of 33 Old 06-20-2001, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Please excuse my ignorance. I searched quite a # of posts from the last year and came up empty handed.

Simple question?
If I have a 5000 receiver w/modulator and a HD ready TV set will I need any other equipment to view HD channels? Not record just view? If I will, can someone tell me what I need?

thanks,
DWhite
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post #2 of 33 Old 06-20-2001, 09:27 PM
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More info would help - for instance the exact TV manuf/model number.

More than likely though you will need an HDTV set top box/tuner to actually get the signal off the 5000, decoded by the tuner, then piped into your TV using component-video.

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post #3 of 33 Old 06-20-2001, 09:33 PM
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Most "HD ready" sets do not have a tuner, so a set top box (STB) is usually necessary. Alternatively, the Dish 6000 will provide the appropriate HD video signals (RGB or component) directly.


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post #4 of 33 Old 06-21-2001, 03:27 AM
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If your HD ready TV set has a digital tuner, ie can receive Digital channels already then it will probably work as the 5000/HDTV modulator outputs 8VSB, OTA type signal.

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post #5 of 33 Old 06-21-2001, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the latency in reponse.
Right now I have a Mits 65807 and a DTC-100. I have a buddy who is going to give me his 5000 receiver w/HD mod.
I just wanted to know what else I would need to be able to get Dish HD. I have all the cables and a dish for the 61 sat. I was just wondering if I would need to buy an additional piece of hardware to actually get it to work on my tv. If so can someone tell me what it is I will need(model of box i need to purchase). I am not really interested in any of the htpc stuff right now.

Thanks so much for the replys.

DWhite
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[This message has been edited by zx7r (edited 06-22-2001).]
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post #6 of 33 Old 06-22-2001, 01:52 AM
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Yeah, kindof messy but:

61.5 Sat -> Dish 5000 -> HDTV modulator -> DTC 100 (antenna A or B) -> RGB/VGA -> (optional YPrPb converter) -> bigscreen will work.

Note - the HDTV modulator will send a channel 3 or 4 (selectable from the dish 5000 menu) 8VSB (OTA type) signal that the OTA tuner in the DTC-100 can receive and decode.
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post #7 of 33 Old 06-22-2001, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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PVR-
Thank you for the response. I am just looking for a simple solution and a non expensive way to get Dish and see if I like it any better than DirecTV.
I appreciate your response.

Thanks,
DWhite
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post #8 of 33 Old 06-22-2001, 08:24 AM
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When you get that 5000/mod combo you will want to hook up an output cable between the 5000 channel 3 out to the DTC-100 channel A input as well as the HDTV modulator out to the channel B input on the DTC-100 so you can get menu's and guide info off the 5000. See my web page for a wiring diagram on the home theater page.

The system is not simple and requires quite a bit of switching to make work (a programmable remote helps) but it does work. For the one who want's it simple, the 6000 is a much better option. I have both here.

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post #9 of 33 Old 06-22-2001, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PVR:
61.5 Sat -> Dish 5000 -> HDTV modulator -> DTC 100 (antenna A or B) -> RGB/VGA -> (optional YPrPb converter) -> bigscreen will work.
The Mitsubishi accepts RGB on its 1080i input (it's switchable between YPbPr and RGB) so the converter mentioned above shouldn't be necessary.

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[This message has been edited by rrg (edited 06-22-2001).]

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post #10 of 33 Old 06-22-2001, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by zx7r:
Right now I have a Mits 65807 and a DTC-100.
Does the Mitsubishi TV work with the DTC-100? I remember reading that the Mitsubishi HDTVs have proprietary RGBHV inputs.

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post #11 of 33 Old 06-22-2001, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by balazer:
Does the Mitsubishi TV work with the DTC-100? I remember reading that the Mitsubishi HDTVs have proprietary RGBHV inputs.
The problem (at least with newer Mitsubishis) wasn't that they had proprietary RGBHV inputs, but rather that the DTC-100's output used a non-standard retrace timing that caused problems on those sets.

Even so, it was still possible to use the DTC-100 with the Mitsubishi sets by tweaking something in the TV's service menu. But the most recent firmware update to the DTC-100 fixes the problem by providing an optional retrace timing that's fully compatible with the Mits. It's still necessary to explicitly select that timing, but nothing extraordinary should be required.


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post #12 of 33 Old 06-22-2001, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate the suggestions guys. I just wanted to see if I would be happy with Dish's HD before I went with the 6000 unit. I dont know how I am going to run the DTC and the 6000 together once/if I do get one.
presently, I have the DTC hooked up via vga to BNC breakout cables with rca adapters to the input on the TV.

The firmware upgrade on the DTC definitely helped with the tracing issues. Looks good to me, then again I am not real picky yet. Or should I say trained. Actually I dont know if I want to be http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif




[This message has been edited by zx7r (edited 06-23-2001).]
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post #13 of 33 Old 06-23-2001, 05:56 AM
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zx7r-

You are switching gears here-
First you state you will get the 5000, now you say 6000. Please understand that the connections and operation of these two receivers will be different. The 5000/modulator will require a receiver like the DTC-100 to get the 8VSB output to RGBHV for your monitor. The 6000 will not. You should not confuse the two as they do require different hookups.

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post #14 of 33 Old 06-23-2001, 08:38 PM
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Don, I reviewed the wiring diagram on your web site and have several hundred questions. But I'll start with just a few. Like you, I have the Panny combo, RGBHV input front projector, and RCA STB. I would like to record HD movies off the DISH satellite via the modulator which I am feverishly shopping for right now. I have a roof antenna to pick up OTA HD broadcasts. My questions are:

1. Can I purchase either the DISH 5000 or 6000 receiver, or must it be only the 5000?

2. I notice you have both Directv and Dish. Is there a reason for the redundancy or could I save one monthly subscription fee?

3. Is there a seamless method of feeding both the OTA HD and DISH satellite HD signals into the single antenna input of the Panasonic STB so I can record either source by changing channels on the Panasonic STB and still use the built in timer feature?

4. What does the single 61.5 Dish pick up and what is the purpose of the Power Inserter on the output of the SW64 Switch?

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post #15 of 33 Old 06-24-2001, 02:07 AM
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1. For recording on the Panny combo, only the Dish5000/modulator will work.

2. The direcTV is not redundant. I have a minimum sub to DirecTV for PPV's access and channel 199 only. It's a long story but I get it with a credit for them destroying my DTC-100 last year in a failed firmware upgrade attempt. The main sub I have is now with DN.

3. I don't get "good" OTA here but do have 2 channels I experimented with. At that time I simply swapped the 8VSB feed from the modulator to a piece of wire and saw the OTA signal, crisp and clean. I do believe there are multiplexors with these OTA antennas that mount to your dish that allow the OTA signal to travel down one RG6 feed. I have not used these, however.

4. The DN HDTV system requires the use of a second dish aimed at 61.5 orbital slot for the HDTV channels (4) You will need this dish and a special switch(I use the SW64 to couple the 110, 119 and 61.5 LNB's to 4 down feed coax's into the IRD's.) The power inserter is required to get power to the SW64 switch that operates the 3 LNB switching from the 2 dishes.
There are other less expensive ways to wire this that work too, such as with 2 SW21 switches but this SW64 is just what I installed. It allows up to 4 IRD's to work off the 3 LNB/dual dish systems.) You save a few bucks and get a less robust antenna system with the SW21's. Since I have both the 6000 and the 5000 now, I really needed the SW64 wiring.

PS- the 6000 is much easier to operate and when I travel, I leave the system set up for the 6000 for the family. The only purpose for the 5000 now is for making HDTV recordings, otherwise the 6000 is far simpler. PQ on both are equal.

Also, setting up the SW64 is not a simple task. Take your time with the wiring and set up procedure outlined in the manual and it should work fine.


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post #16 of 33 Old 06-24-2001, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sr:
3. Is there a seamless method of feeding both the OTA HD and DISH satellite HD signals into the single antenna input of the Panasonic STB so I can record either source by changing channels on the Panasonic STB and still use the built in timer feature?
I too have the DST50/PV-HD1000 fed from a 5000/modulator.
And I too have two dishes (110/119 and 61.5), feeding a
6/4 switch which requires the power inserter.

The "seamless" connection is simply to run a coax from
the DTV output of the HDTV Modulator to the DTV input of
the DST50. And you run your OTA antenna into the RF
antenna input of the HDTV modulator.

The single coax out of the modulator to the DST50 will
be carrying either 61.5 HD channels (modulated to channel
3 for the DST50) or off-air digital channels.

So depending on what you're tuned to with the 5000, the
modulator puts out either (a) channel 3, for the 61.5
satellite channels like HBOHD on 9440, or (b) OTA digital
channels from your antenna. All output is 8VSB, from the
DTV output of the modulator to the DTV input of the DST50.

You set up your 5000 to have the multi-dish switch, and you
add your local off-air channels... both the VHF non-digital
ones and the [probably] UHF digital ones. That way when
you tune to a digital off-air channel the 5000 knows what
it needs to do, which will be to put a message on the
non-digital screen of your TV to go to DTV in order to
view the picture, as well as putting out the DTV channel
through the DTV output of the modulator to the DST50 which
is most likely feeding the component inputs of your HDTV.

In order to record on the PV-HD1000, you need to have the
5000 tuned to either (a) a satellite HD channel, with the
DST50 tuned to channel 3, or (b) an off-air digital channel
with the DST50 tuned to that off-air channel.

You can set up a FAVORITES list on the 5000 that contains
both your local off-air channels as well as your 61.5
channels, which makes it convenient to see the program guide
as perform one-button timer event setting.

You can set the DST50 for timer recording, choosing either
channel 3 or the off-air channel number. And you must also
set the 5000 timer event for the same time, and the same
channel... as a "tune only" event. That way it will go on,
revert to digital mode from either the 61.5 satellite or
off-air antenna, tune to the proper channel, send the
proper output out the modulator DTV output to the DST50,
which will wake up at the same time from its own timer and
record to the PV-HD1000 through firewire.

Hope this helps.
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post #17 of 33 Old 06-24-2001, 08:08 AM
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DSPERBER-

Thanks for jumping in on that. I do not have the OTA need here but may some day and have clipped your suggestion for future use.

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post #18 of 33 Old 06-24-2001, 08:12 AM
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Thanks very much for the detailed explanations. It's so rewarding to communicate with talented and experienced people.

Now that I did my homework, the hard part is ahead...finding a modulator at a somewhat reasonable price. I found a dusty DST-50 on top of huge rear projection TV, and I found the PV-HD1000 wrapped in clear plastic on a heap of other open box items at a WIZ Store in New York City. So this is my life; I feel like a garbage picker when I go into a store these days, but you can imagine the smile on my face when I first hooked up the Panny combo and recorded HD. It was like I hit Lotto...well not quite that exciting.
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post #19 of 33 Old 06-24-2001, 09:11 AM
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What is a WIZ store? I will be in NYC and West Chester County doing my TV shows in mid July. Will it be worth checking these stores out? Never have much time on these trips but if I get stuck with a day off on the trip, it would be something to do.

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post #20 of 33 Old 06-24-2001, 11:34 AM
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The WIZ is a chain of stores in NY, NJ and CT like Circuit City or the Good Guys but smaller. These stores carry audio,video and camera equipment as well as various small appliances. Their WEB address is http://www.thewiz.com/ where you can find the store locations.
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post #21 of 33 Old 06-24-2001, 04:21 PM
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In addition, the Wiz is owned by Cablevision, which also owns the MSG Network and the New York Knicks NBA team and New York Rangers NHL team.

Ben

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post #22 of 33 Old 06-24-2001, 05:05 PM
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Thanks!
Got a location to visit in Scarsdale. Should be the closest to where I'll be working.

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post #23 of 33 Old 06-24-2001, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Don-
I appreciate the replies.
I am not really confusing the situation. What I am saying is my buddy will give me his 5000 w/hd mod to test and see if I am going to be happy with Dish Networks HD stuff. If I do enjoy Dish then I am going to probably get a 6000 for myself, or find another hd Mod for the 5000 that I have acquired. I was just initially inquiring on what it would take to get HD with this receiver and the equipment I already have in place.
Then I was preceeding to say... If indeed I do like the E* HD, then I will buy the 6000 and try to figure out a way to have both my DTC and my 6000 hooked up to the same tv.

Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks,
DWhite
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post #24 of 33 Old 06-30-2001, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sr:
I found the PV-HD1000 wrapped in clear plastic on a heap of other open box items at a WIZ Store in New York City.
Be careful of PV-HD1000 units bought from The Wiz.

I "won" an Ebay auction for one, that came from The Wiz and
was being "flipped", and it was a DEMO unit. Naturally
I was a novice and had no idea what this meant, nor was
the seller honest enough to state that fact.

The problem, of course, is that DEMO units will not record
without extensive work... either $650 to Panasonic, or
a very good techie to do the repair for you.

The DEMO units are intended for playback only,and include
a sticker on the back that says "NOT FOR SALE", and "FOR
PLAYBACK ONLY OF PANASONIC DEMO TAPES".

So if you find one at the Wiz, look at the back. If it says
"NOT FOR SALE" there's a reason. If you wanted to record
HD from a DST50/51 you'll need to invest lots more money.
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post #25 of 33 Old 06-30-2001, 07:47 AM
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Thanks for the reminder about the Demo versions.

Just a thought on this for everyone.

The demo unit may have real purpose in a two VCR HT. When making a dub of the movie you recorded, one PVHD1000 is only used for playback anyway. I would offer a much lower price on a DEMO PVHD1000 and own one here for playback only and reserve my existing PVHD1000 for record -only- Based on the price point of $800 for a fully capable unit, and the cost to upgrade, maybe a $100 to $150 for a "demo" playback only unit seems fair to me. Of course I'm not in the market for a DVHS HD dubbing operation, but I would not pay more than $150 for a playback only PVHD1000 anyway.

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post #26 of 33 Old 06-30-2001, 04:04 PM
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There are only two significant differences between the standard consumer HD1000's and the demo units. Demo's have no warrantee, and the heads don't record well until they are nearly worn out, at which point they are ... nearly worn out.http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

As pointed out here you can easily replace the heads for $235. Only skill required is ability to use a screwdriver without hurting yourself. The resulting machine performs identically to a consumer HD1000. Based on that I would put the value of a demo at about $500.

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post #27 of 33 Old 06-30-2001, 06:35 PM
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Gridleak-

I agree with you, if you can do the work yourself. Best to have a fully capable unit. Swapping the upper drum assy is no biggy, but the lower one would require a bit more skill and possible an eccentricity gauge and scope with alignment tape. Glad you researched all this stuff for our peace of mind!

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post #28 of 33 Old 06-30-2001, 11:32 PM
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I just didn't want any of the members to sell their demos for 150 bucks, unless, of course, it was to me.http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

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post #29 of 33 Old 07-01-2001, 09:40 AM
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I will take a demo for $150 too.

dave
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post #30 of 33 Old 07-01-2001, 11:04 AM
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My thoughts on the "demo" HD1000 units.

I have two of them and, with one exception - in which I used SVHS tape - I have had no problem recording with either of them. I believe one of them had zero hours on it and the other had considerable use.

Most of my recording (unlike some of gridleak's recording which is over and over on the same tape) is made on virgin tape.

The head gap depth of the demo units is clearly much greater than the depth on consumer units (many thanks to gridleak for his meticulous documentation). The greater the depth of the head, the poorer is its ability to "overwrite" existing recordings. I suspect that heads which have trouble overwriting existing recordings will have no trouble recording on blank tape. In future, I'll look out for this.

Thanks again, gridleak, for your valuable contributions to this forum.

BTW I like your slogan on analog vs. digital. How about this one:

Analog: graceful degradation
Digital: disgraceful degradation
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