Audio dropout problems - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 07-31-2001, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm also interested, particularly in experiences with the Marantz SR-18EX or the Meridian 500 series...

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post #2 of 31 Old 07-31-2001, 11:34 AM
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I can add one datum to this thread. I have the Sony TAE9000ES processor, and I had terrible dropout problems with it. The SHAC500 solved this problem completely. One really important feature of the SHAC is that it has a six-channel pass through mode, which has no volume control and no other processing, so you can still use your favorite processor for all other applications (CD, DVD, LD, LP) and have this go through the SHAC, hopefully with no degradation.

One other thing that I have not seen mentioned on this forum. I found that when I was using the Sony TAE9000ES for decoding, some dropouts were accompanied by extremely loud bursts that sounded like rifle shots. I was concerned that this put my ribbon speakers at great risk. These potentially-damaging bursts completely disappeared with the SHAC 500.

I am going to go through the previous posts and compile a list of processors that work, and those that do not. It would be good to keep a comprehensive updated list.

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post #3 of 31 Old 07-31-2001, 01:25 PM
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Marantz SR- series seem to have no problems, mine (SR-18) works perfect with the Panasonic gear & I've never read/heard anything to the contrary.

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post #4 of 31 Old 07-31-2001, 08:27 PM
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This all goes back to the type of Dolby Digital decoder in the processor. The TU-DST5X has bit errors on its output, that much is known and there is no known way to get rid of the errors. It's up to the AC-3 decoder to figure out how to handle it. The Technics processor and any other processor that uses Crystal (Cirrus Logic) decoders will mask the bit errors. The Sony 9000ES uses an Analog Devices SHARC processor, and the B & K uses Motorola. Unfortunately neither companys' firmwares was designed to handle the bit errors gracefully. That's probably because Crystal owns the patent on bit-error masking in compressed audio streams. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

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post #5 of 31 Old 07-31-2001, 09:51 PM
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As has been well documented on this forum there exist dropout problems between the Panny 50/51 when D-VSH tapes are being played and most non-panasonic Dolby Digital decoders. I have certainly found this to be the case on a new B & K reference 30 which I purchased. So I am now letting my old processor (a Kenweed ZC-1) do the decoding and run the analog 6 outputs to the 6 input on the Yamaha AAC decoder which forwards it to the processor (when the 6 channel input button is pressed). Not a good permanent solution, so I will probably return this processsor the the store.

Is anyone finding NO dropouts with the Panny combo and any current sorround controllers such as the Parasound?

Thanks
Bernhard
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post #6 of 31 Old 08-01-2001, 10:21 PM
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UPdate. I figured out the perfect solution. I simply hooked up the AAC decoder directly to the amplifiers, and then I hooked up my old Kenwood processor to the 6 analog inputs of the AAC decoder. The Kenwood does not have problems with the Panny 50/51. I can now take the B & K back to the store. Now I am getting absolutely fantastic and clean AAC audio. It seems that US built processors are not passing the AAC well. When I was running it through the processor I got minor distortion.

Bernhard


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post #7 of 31 Old 08-02-2001, 05:52 PM
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Does anyone know an online source for the Technics SH-AC500D decoder (that actually has them in stock)? I haven't been able to find squat on these puppies. There don't seem to be any on eBay either.

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post #8 of 31 Old 08-02-2001, 06:01 PM
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The reason they are hard to find, is that they are discontinued.

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post #9 of 31 Old 08-02-2001, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Ken -

Let's see...

PV-HD1000
TU-DST50
SH-AC500D
Dish 5000
Dish Modulator

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post #10 of 31 Old 08-05-2001, 02:46 PM
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I found time today to go through the archives and tabulate the AC-3 decoders that will, and will not, work well with the DST 50/51 with respect to audio dropouts. I may have left some out, but I hope I have not made any errors. If anyone can add to this list, great.

Decoders that were reported not to exhibit dropout problem:
Technics SH-AC 500D
Technics SH-AC 300
Technics SA-DX 930
Technics SA-DX 940
Marantz SR-18
Lexicon MC1
Kenwood ZC-1
Kenwood VR 2090
Proceed AVP
Sony STRDA 333ES
Lexicon DC-1 with upgrade 4.0

Decoders that were reported to exhibit dropouts with the DST 50/51:
Sony TAE 9000ES
Denon AVR 5700
Meridian 565
Meridian 861
Theta Casablanca
Yamaha RX-V1
B & K reference 30
JVC receiver(unspecified)
Aargon AV (less that then Sony 9000ES)
Chiron 802(slight-much less that the Sony 9000ES)
Parasound AVC 2500
Chazz




[This message has been edited by chazz (edited 08-14-2001).]
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post #11 of 31 Old 08-05-2001, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by peterd:
Ken -

Let's see...

PV-HD1000
TU-DST50
SH-AC500D
Dish 5000
Dish Modulator

Isn't it time you updated your Sig? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Hey! I don't have any SH-AC500D and I never did!

A long time ago I became resigned to having obsolete equipment, but that doesn't diminish my enjoyment a bit.



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post #12 of 31 Old 08-05-2001, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't get me wrong, Ken, I've got multiples of every one of these (except, like you, the SH-AC500D)! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Chazz -

Thanks! This consolidation is a great service to all. I'm getting a Marantz SR-18 next week, and this is a relief to know I won't need an outboard proc.

I was considering a Meridian for another location. Guess I'll have to think about that some more...


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post #13 of 31 Old 08-06-2001, 05:55 AM
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I have had my HD recording going for two days and have not heard dropouts yet.
PV-HD1000
TU-DST50
RCA STAV 3880 (From Radio Shack)
Dish 5000
Dish Modulator
A side note on the DST 50, it can not receive my one off air channel, nor can a DTC 100, but a Unity Motion can.
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post #14 of 31 Old 08-06-2001, 03:11 PM
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I've been using the DST50/HD1000 combo with a Yamaha RX-V2095 receiver for a couple of weeks know with no audio dropouts so far.

I'm only recording OTA, though.

Nick
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post #15 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 03:23 AM
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Please note that I edited the tabulation of processors that do and do not exhibit dropout problems in my post of 8-5 on this thread to add the following entries:
No dropouts- Lexicon DC-1 with upgrade 4.0

Dropout problems-Parasound AVC 2500.

No one has yet pointed out any mistakes in this tabulation. So far, so good.

Chazz
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post #16 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 01:25 PM
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Just to give you all that kind of warm fuzzy twilight zone feeling:

I have a Panny SHAC500D, and it DOES have the audio dropout problem!

-Tom
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post #17 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 02:02 PM
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I'd like to thank Chazz for gathering this info. I'll be referring to it when I attack the dropout problem.

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post #18 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 02:14 PM
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Meridian knows about the audio dropout problems from satellites and other "error prone" sources. As of about a month ago they were working on the problem. I have no update since then. They have, or so they tell me, made changes to their DSP software to correct the AC3 flag problems introduced by the JVC 30000 D-VHS recorder. That solution will be introduced with their next software release. They tell me that will be available in about a month, but we shall see.
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post #19 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Armading:

I have a Panny SHAC500D, and it DOES have the audio dropout problem!

This might also be caused by your DST50/51 overheating mildly (not enough to cause pixelation), rather than a failing on the part of the SHAC-500. If you are not already doing so, try running an external fan over the top of the unit, blowing air across the top vents. See if this helps. If you have a DST50, is it one that has been repaired?

You don't mention how severe your dropout problem is.In terms of realistic expectations, before I got to SHAC-500 the dropouts were so annoying so as to make it impossible to sit through a movie. With the SHAC I may occasionally get one or two dropouts, but that's also the number if pixelations I might get.

Chazz
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post #20 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 06:31 PM
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Does anyone know if either the Denon 5800 or Onkyo TXDS989 recievers have demonstrated any audio dropouts with the Dish 5000/Mod- TU-DST50 & PV HD-1000 combo?

I am interested in buying one of the two, or possibly the new Denon 4800 Reciver as a pre/pro and a 5-channel power amp.

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post #21 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 06:41 PM
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What is (was) the difference between the Technics SH-AC500 and the Technics SH-AC300?

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post #22 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 06:43 PM
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My denon avr3300 has the dropout problem.It has the sharc processor. The shac500 cured it. No dropouts.
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post #23 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 06:45 PM
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The shac300 doesnt have dts decoding.
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post #24 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 06:49 PM
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"My denon avr3300 has the dropout problem.It has the sharc processor. The shac500 cured it. No dropouts."

Does the 5800 have the shac500 processor? Does the Onkyo?

I am trying to decide between the new 4802 with DPL II and THX Post Processing & BAss Managment but lesser DAC's and power vs. waiting (&*^%$#$%%^) for next years 5802.

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post #25 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 09:27 PM
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Murray, the 'schac500' is actually the Technics SH-AC500D outboard Dolby Digital decoder, which is now discontinued. It has nothing to do with Analog Devices SHARC processors, which are used in most Denon receivers.

The Onkyo TXDS989 uses Crystal (Cirrus Logic) decoders, which means you should not experience any noticeable dropouts.

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post #26 of 31 Old 08-14-2001, 11:23 PM
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Dylan,

Are the newer Denon 5800 & 4802 with Analog Devices SHARC processors a problem in this regard with thew Dish/Panny Combo?

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post #27 of 31 Old 08-15-2001, 11:43 AM
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Chazz's list from 8/5 indicates that the Kenwood VR-2090 does not have the dropout problem, but I have that receiver and get audio drop outs with my DST-51, Dish 5000 combo.
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post #28 of 31 Old 08-15-2001, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by chazz:
This might also be caused by your DST50/51 overheating mildly (not enough to cause pixelation), rather than a failing on the part of the SHAC-500. If you are not already doing so, try running an external fan over the top of the unit, blowing air across the top vents. See if this helps. If you have a DST50, is it one that has been repaired?

You don't mention how severe your dropout problem is.In terms of realistic expectations, before I got to SHAC-500 the dropouts were so annoying so as to make it impossible to sit through a movie. With the SHAC I may occasionally get one or two dropouts, but that's also the number if pixelations I might get.

Chazz
The dropouts with the SHAC-500 are clicks (annoying), and it's not the DST51, because they happen at exactly the same place in the movie that my Sony decoder semi-mutes the audio. That may indicate it is a tape problem at that point. Or maybe not. But I like how the Sony (EP9ES) handles it better than the SHAC-500. With the Sony, most of my friends never notice any audio problem.
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post #29 of 31 Old 08-15-2001, 03:43 PM
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Meurray,
I haven't tested the Denon 5800 or 4802 with the Dish/Panny combo so I can't say. But I will say that every non-Crystal-based decoder I've hooked up to the Dish/Panny combo has exhibited big audio dropouts.

I use the SH-AC500D at the moment. If I were in the market for a new A/V receiver to use with the Dish/Panny combo, I'd get the Onkyo 989. They've already demonstrated the upgradeability of this receiver. Also, a friend of mine just bought one and absolutely loves it.

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post #30 of 31 Old 08-15-2001, 03:49 PM
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What are the REAL differences between the Onkyo DTS 989 and the Onkyo Integra DTR 9.1?

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