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169time Solution (Law Enforcement)

6K views 318 replies 76 participants last post by  mrwilson 
#1 ·
Well, I'm obviously not alone (otherwise the other thread would have died), but now I am frustrated at not only the lack of response to emails, but the lack of any kind of update in this forum from Andy.


Is anyone here who paid their money ready to inform the Attorney General of California as well as the Postal Inspector? Should we notify local police as well?


I'm out a lot of money so far (DTC-100 sent to 169time, and the cost of the upgrade + the "1 year of upgrades"), and now I'm pretty upset about it.


Come'on Andy, no updates is INEXCUSABLE for this long !


I dunno Andy, if there is no update in the next week, I'll consider flying up to your offices with local law enforcement in tow, as this is inexcusable. You have thousands of dollars of forum members money and while delays are expected, not informing those that paid is borderline fraud.


Andy, let's hear something, even my patience is wearing thin.




------------------

*always looking for Hi-Vision laserdiscs*
 
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#78 ·
KenF is Ken Fowler who was quite knowledgeable and informed from many insider connections, especially with RCA and the DTC-100 development. One day he simply disappeared.( about June of 2000) Some of us got e-mail from him stating that he moved and would not be back until his new domicile had fast modem connect. Never heard anything from him since. He was never connected with any sort of product or operation that may be considered a scam. He simply disappeared from AVScience and we all miss him. I recall he used to reside in the DC area.


------------------

Don Landis

Home Theater Pics at: www.scubatech.com Last updated 3/25/01


[This message has been edited by Don Landis (edited 07-13-2001).]
 
#79 ·
From some private emails off forum, it is my understanding that an investigation has been started and maybe going on for some time by some local investigators. the only word I got was that they did not find anyone at the address that was thought to be the correct one. I personally did not send them any $ or a receiver but came close. We will just have to wait and see what happens. However, if you paid by credit card, by all means call your bank and reverse the payment on it. One good thing aboout CC, is that you have 30 days and sometimes more to stop it. If you used a USPO money order, then file with the PO, they love to investigate this kind of thing when the mail is used.

bt
 
#80 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by wtaylor:

[B We will just have to wait and see what happens. However, if you paid by credit card, by all means call your bank and reverse the payment on it. One good thing aboout CC, is that you have 30 days and sometimes more to stop it. If you used a USPO money order, then file with the PO, they love to investigate this kind of thing when the mail is used.

bt[/b]
Also, if you paid by check , find out from your bank where the money was deposited. They probably can't tell you a person's name or address but they can tell you what bank it was deposited in and what the account number was. (If you get the cancelled check the routing number and account number may be printed on the reverse side.)


Once you identify what bank it was deposited in, contact the fraud department of that bank. They may or may not be willing to give you the account holders name and address on the account.


If the bank won't(or legally can't) the records could be subpoenaed.

 
#81 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by wtaylor:
From some private emails off forum, it is my understanding that an investigation has been started and maybe going on for some time by some local investigators. the only word I got was that they did not find anyone at the address that was thought to be the correct one.
I'd sure like more info on this........


This week I am going to file a complaint with the USPS since I used them. I'll send them a copy of my cancelled check, and since the amount isn't large enough for an attorney, will next week consider filing a small claims court suit.


This is just flat out rediculous.


-Brian


------------------

*always looking for Hi-Vision laserdiscs*
 
#82 ·
Couldn't wait a week, just filed a complaint with Postal Inspectors.


If I am not going to get a response, my order, or a refund, I'd rather see these guys go down.


This doesn't preclude me flying up there, I have vacation in a couple of weeks so I may just "drop in" on these people and find out where our stuff is.




------------------

*always looking for Hi-Vision laserdiscs*
 
#83 ·
I filed a complaint with PayPal (but over their "30" day limit) but haven't received any substantive reply.


I am willing to fund activities for investigating these guys. They have a brand new dtc100 from me (as well as about $800).





[This message has been edited by NevilleRoy (edited 07-16-2001).]
 
#88 ·
I don't think it's theft if you willingly pay someone for something. If they don't (or couldn't) deliver it, it could be fraud, but I don't think it could be theft.


I don't think police investigate fraud, do they? Seems like more of a DA's Office type thing.


DISCLAIMER: I am no lawyer, believe me. (Don't believe what I say above because I'm no laywer, just believe that I'm no lawyer. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif )



[This message has been edited by jeffster (edited 07-17-2001).]
 
#89 ·
I think the loss of an RCA DTC100 most definitely constitutes theft.


If you have a model number, serial number, an address and a police force willing to do a search AND they find it, well I wouldn't want to be the resident of that address.


As far as the loss of the money goes, it would seem to be theft to me when you cannot recover the money or the service/product it was to represent.


Has anyone attempted ANY legal action here that they could enlighten those who are ready to do something. Certainly a concerted effort by a group will hold the attention of the law enforcement community more than individuals attempting different random actions.


Rick
 
#91 ·
To be part of the effort to get your money back from 169time, just send a $500 money order to:


Sucker Born Every Minute

P.O. Box 1234

Inferno, Hell


For those who have already sent in their $500, be patient. We are in the midst of a reorganization but will be able to get a settlement by August 27.
 
#92 ·
I was thinking more of a cooperative effort where members of this forum, and in particular, those who have lost money and equipment, would actually know what was going on.


------------------

-Roger

Analog -- Always out of adjustment.

Digital -- Always one more bug.
 
#93 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by wirehead_rick:
I think the loss of an RCA DTC100 most definitely constitutes theft.


If you have a model number, serial number, an address and a police force willing to do a search AND they find it, well I wouldn't want to be the resident of that address.


As far as the loss of the money goes, it would seem to be theft to me when you cannot recover the money or the service/product it was to represent.


Has anyone attempted ANY legal action here that they could enlighten those who are ready to do something. Certainly a concerted effort by a group will hold the attention of the law enforcement community more than individuals attempting different random actions.


Rick
I'm no laywer either but here is how I understand the law regarding this.


If someone acquires your property without your knowledge and concent, that's theft, a criminal manner which the police take care of.


If you loan or rent something and the other party decides not to return it, it's a breech of contract and a civil matter. You have to sue them to get it back. The police won't help you here. Now if it's on a wide scale and I do think 169time is in this boat, then the DA may get involved on a fraud investigation. At that time the police would arrest the parties involved if the DA orders such action.

 
#95 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by sabrose:
There is still a server working with their Web Page -if it is an ISP provided freebie ,it had to come from somewhere. Is it possible to trace the location of the server and find out who has the active ISP account ?
from whois

Registrant:

myself

11969 Mathis Way

Grass Valley, CA 95949

US


Domain Name: 169TIME.COM


Administrative Contact:

Adams, Ambir hdtv@oro.net

11969 Mathis Way

Grass Valley, CA 95949

US

530 268 8358


Technical Contact:

Adams, Ambir hdtv@oro.net

11969 Mathis Way

Grass Valley, CA 95949

US

530 268 8358


Billing Contact:

Adams, Ambir hdtv@oro.net

11969 Mathis Way

Grass Valley, CA 95949

US

530 268 8358



Record last updated on 18-Jul-2001.

Record expires on 09-Mar-2002.

Record Created on 09-Mar-2000.


Domain servers in listed order:

NS.STNSERVICES.COM 216.221.160.5

NS2.STNSERVICES.COM 216.221.160.102


The trail of a traceroute shows

11 58 ms 60 ms 58 ms sl-ci-2-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.229.66]

12 58 ms 60 ms 58 ms gi4.core.propagation.net [66.34.255.2]

13 61 ms 60 ms 60 ms www.169time.com [216.221.175.208]


So from that one could assume that their ISP is propagation.net and you could reach them at:

Registrant:

Propagation Networks, Inc. (PROPAGATION4-DOM)

1851 Central Drive #110

Bedford, TX 76021


Domain Name: PROPAGATION.NET


Administrative Contact:

Administration (AD3698-ORG) admin@PROPAGATION.NET

Propagation Networks

1851 Central Drive Suite 110

Bedford, TX 76021

US

800-607-0123

Technical Contact:

Network Operations Center (NO326-ORG) noc@PROPAGATION.NET

Propagation Networks

1851 Central Drive Suite 110

Bedford, TX 76021

US

800-607-0123

Fax- - 888-242-7554

Billing Contact:

Billing Services (BI1147-ORG) billing@PROPAGATION.NET

Propagation Networks

1851 Central Drive Suite 110

Bedford, TX 76021

US

800-607-0123

Fax- 888-242-7554


Record last updated on 21-May-2001.

Record expires on 01-Jun-2006.

Record created on 01-Jun-1998.

Database last updated on 18-Jul-2001 05:14:00 EDT.


Domain servers in listed order:


NS.PROPAGATION.NET 216.221.160.10

NS2.PROPAGATION.NET 216.221.162.106

NS3.PROPAGATION.NET 63.249.128.204


or they could be using a web hosting company and it could be the www.STNSERVICES.COM based on their NS records. This is the most likely situation.


Regards,


Brian



[This message has been edited by btmoore (edited 07-18-2001).]
 
#100 ·
Its not that 169time didnt have legitimate aims it is the fact that they lied once things went wrong. They promised your money back if not satisfied and stongly implied that they had product ready to ship in January. That is When most people sent their money in . Now they have taken "de money and run Venezuela". Thats Fraud !It could also be considered grand theft.

Their is some kind of disconnection in these people from propriety and reality.



169time- Sure we have product !

Gary Condom- Sure I'll Marry you,meet me in the park and we'll talk about it!


[This message has been edited by sabrose (edited 07-21-2001).]
 
#101 ·
Luckily I did not get involved in this mess...but I have been following this thread with more than a passing interest. This thread was opened almost two months ago. It should be painfully clear to you all that the chances of you being made whole are very slim indeed--regardless of how well intentioned 169time may have been.


I would encourage everyone invlolved to pursue criminal complaints against 169time.


Good luck to you.


--Jerome
 
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