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post #1 of 20 Old 10-05-2001, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Don, got any ideas. I have a HP DVD+RW on order. I have my D-VHS HD library. Was wondering if there is anyway to transfer D-VHS material onto the DVD+RW. This would not make any sense from a cost per movie, but would be fun to play with. Some people seem to think that w/o the material on a disc that is just isnt "sexy" enough.

dave
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post #2 of 20 Old 10-05-2001, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by h2ofun:
Don, got any ideas. I have a HP DVD+RW on order. I have my D-VHS HD library. Was wondering if there is anyway to transfer D-VHS material onto the DVD+RW. This would not make any sense from a cost per movie, but would be fun to play with. Some people seem to think that w/o the material on a disc that is just isnt "sexy" enough.

dave
The capacity of a DVD+RW isn't nearly large enough--you'd need at least 14GB to store a 2 hour 1080i movie.

I assume you're using the Panasonic deck--since everything you've recorded thus far would be non-copy-protected, it might be possible to write an application to capture somewhere around 40 minutes worth of HD from a firewire interface and store it on a DVD+RW disk (you'd need 3 for a 2 hour feature) and another application to play it back.

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[This message has been edited by michaeltscott (edited 10-05-2001).]

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post #3 of 20 Old 10-06-2001, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Don, thanks for the inputs.

The reason I am going with the DVD+RW now is it is claimed to be the most compatible with existing set top boxes. Guess we will all see once we get our hands on one.

I am also waiting to see the real price of media from TDK.
I was amazed that the dvd-rw was 22 bucks, and the dvd-r was 21. Why would one buy the -r for only saving a buck?

If the dvd+rw comes in at 15 bucks like they say, that in itself will make a big difference.

What is an interest is if I get my hands on an HD camera to borrow, edit the material in 16 by 9, and dump a 30 minute program to DVD+RW would be neat.

Between the recordable DVD and WIndows XP, this sure would a great time for someone to get a new computer. Being able to burn CD-r/w's in the same burner is also nice.

dave
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post #4 of 20 Old 10-06-2001, 11:19 AM
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h2ofun,
Where do you have your HP drive on order from. I have been waiting since the August announcement that they would be available in September, but have not seen them turn up yet.

Steve
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post #5 of 20 Old 10-06-2001, 05:50 PM
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Dave-

The DVD-r media is available in two standards. General and data. Both are at $9.95 current street pricing. DVD-RW is about $17 each last I checked. The PRV-9000 recorder will do both. I have seen reports on compatibility both ways but IMHO, the real issue is whether the one you record will play on the player you intend to play it on. In my case, I finally retired my Toshiba SD2109 and 3109 because neither were DVD-R compliant. I replaced it with an RP-56 and I just love it's flexibility and PQ.

I hope you will do some testing of your DVD-RW soon. I am curious as to how it will do with the HD data rate. I would think this will be the major factor. How do you plan to get the HD video into your computer? I believe you will need an HD rated SDI port to do that. You will also need a playback unit to play the tapes from the HDCAM. I have one NLE editor here that will run in HD 1080i mode. It is beta software from aist Movie Pack beta 6170. I'm not under NDA on it so I can discuss it. I have no idea how to get HD source footage into the computer to experiment on it. I have played with the HD generation of graphics but have no way to output it from the computer.

I expect to get the DV recorder, the PRV-9000, sometime in November so my real testing will begin then. Most of what I will be doing is SD video for existing clients, however.

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post #6 of 20 Old 10-06-2001, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Don, I dont know how I would get my HD into my computer.
This is why I am throwing out ideas. When I get everything here, will talk to Richard since he is so sharp in this area.

Steve, I went into price watch and they have tri state computers listed for 559. Shipped date was oct 3rd, now its oct 15th. Looking in yahoo shopping, upgrade source had them for 579. They told me they already have 100 on back order. Again, said current receive date was oct 15th.
Will see.

Don, boy if your prices for the DVD-r/rw media on the street is true, big difference between that and what TDK says on there web site. Makes me hope the DVD+R/RW media will be in the same price range.

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post #7 of 20 Old 10-06-2001, 07:37 PM
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Don, boy if your prices for the DVD-r/rw media on the street is true, big difference between that and what TDK says on there web site.
I just bought 10 generic DVD-R discs at $6 each. The brand is Oridata and they work great both in my DVD-ROM as well as my Sony DVD changer.
With the already large Apple user base and growing PC community I expect the DVD-R and DVD-RW prices to drop rather quickly.
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post #8 of 20 Old 10-06-2001, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, these prices are great.

Anyone see any DVD+RW media around yet?

dave
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post #9 of 20 Old 10-06-2001, 09:15 PM
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Dave-

I have been doing some work with DVD-R using the latest from Pioneer. I don't own one but have been using a gray market DVR-7000 temporarily. It works great and using a betacam SP source tape with Y/C signal transfer the DVD-R video quality is quite good. It is as good as any other DVD I have seen and looks as good as a betacam to betacam transfer with Y/C, but not as good as betacam transfer with YUV. The biggest problems I have with the DVD-RW drives in computers are they have to rely on software MPEG encoders and this is too slow for my tastes. The DVR-7000 and the one I plan to get (the PRV-9000) will do DVD-R recording in real time from either Y/C, Composite video(CVBS), or IEEE1394. Yes, the 1394 part really intrigues me. While it is designed for DVD-R recording from DVCAM and mini-DV sources it is not proprietary. I don't know what will happen when connected to the Panny system. My gut feeling is that it won't recognize the signal but who knows until it is tried. There is also the issue of data rate of the DVD-R format and the data rate of DV format which is compatible but not compatible with the hiogher rate that would be present in an HDTV (DVHS) signal or one from a DVCPRO-100 (DVCPRO-HD).
The PRV-9000 is the industrial version of the DVR-7000 and has mostly the same guts except for a more accurate input video amp with USA standard blacklevels (7.5IRE) while the consumer version tends to crush the blacks and clip the whites a bit. I was assured by the Pioneer rep that the PRV model does not do this. Also strangly enough, the industrial version is $500 less MSRP than the consumer version which is a switch.

One other issue you may or may not be aware of- the DVD-RW technology is not as compatible in other DVD players, particularly the STB DVD players as is the DVD-R general disks. DVD-RW is best suited for computer data backup, not media distribution to the home theater.

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post #10 of 20 Old 10-07-2001, 04:08 AM
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Dave,

Do you know when your HP unit will be coming in? I have been thinking about ordering one of those suckers myself. I'm thinking about getting one of those units myself, but I'm not sure if the discs it makes will play in my set top DVD player or not. Do you know of any list of settop DVD players that DVD+RW will work in? Thanx.

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post #11 of 20 Old 10-07-2001, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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The latest date I got for them getting the units was Oct 15th on these web site.

The whole reason I want this one is there are supposed to work in most DVD set top boxes. Will see.

This unit should be cool!!!!

dave
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post #12 of 20 Old 10-09-2001, 03:53 AM
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I asked the HDTV to DVD question Sorensen itself; So I understand as soon HDTV content is brought to your HD, say by using the fire-wire port of a DVHS player, it can be compressed to the Sorensen format and be played back by a Sorensen sofware player, even if the contend is put on a DVD medium.
Is there anybody who has done this or willing to do?
perhaps Mpeg4 will work too.
I can not do the experiment by having no HDTV footage until yet here in Europe (I consider to buy a DVHS recorder and purchase some movies on DVHS tape in the US), but it is expensive for I look mostly one time one movie.

Sorensen replied:

-----Original Message-----
From: Bote Klop [mailto:boteklop@worldonline.nl]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 10:09 AM
To: Ansje Blanchard
Subject: SHDTV on regular DVD by Sorensen?

Hallo Ansje,
You are Dutch too? I have the next question,
If you have a HDTV recording on harddisk or from broadcast/cable/satelite, besides any copy protection and legal stuf, could it be converted ordirectly be put on a DVD-rom or ram by a regular DVD recorder on computer,
and indeed be read by a Sorensen-3.1/Sqeeze software-player I suppose?
So no blue laser or D-vhs medium needed?
And Mpeg 4 can it be used in case a regular chip has a regular (Mpeg-2)
instruction-set?
Please let me know
Regards

Bote

Thank you for your question and interest in Sorenson Video. As long
as you can put the Disk content on your hard drive you can compress the
content with Sorenson Video 3 Pro. Yes you can put a regular DVD onto your
computer and compress it.

Thanks,
Russ Nielsen
Sorenson Media Inc.
Applications Support Technician

4393 South Riverboat Road Ste. 300
Salt Lake City, Utah, 84123
support@sorenson.com


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post #13 of 20 Old 10-09-2001, 07:48 AM
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Using a time consuming variety of PC tools I've been experimenting with compressing a few minutes of the PBS 1080i demo loop, to a resolution of 960x544p at 24 fps. I think the PBS demo is some of the better material available.

With the 2 pass MPEG4 encoding using DivX4 I can get it in about 6 Mbits/second looking I think as good as at least some of the softer HD shows I've seen. The quality is certainly better than DVD, at least on my Toshiba RPTV with 7" CRT's.

But at this bit rate it becomes feasible to use the continually cheaper DVD-R's.

The main problem is that at that bit rate and resolution I can't play DivX4 smoothly on my machine with existing software. But it's pretty close, and I'm getting better. (866 P-III, G400 video)

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post #14 of 20 Old 10-09-2001, 12:03 PM
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AAAGGGGRRRRR!!!!!!!

Don, say it ain't so!

I was disapointed that my 3109 woun't play VCDs but if it woun't play DVD-Rs then my wife is going to KILL ME

I just ordered the Pioneer DVR-A03.........

You'll here a blurb on FirstCoast News, "Manderin woman murders he husband with a DVD recorder. More at 11"

I'm a dead man........

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post #15 of 20 Old 10-11-2001, 01:39 AM
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Regarding burning D-VHS to DVDs, while I don't have a definitive answer for you, here is what I've been able to do thusfar. I have the Pionner DVD-R burner that comes with the Apple G4 dual processor box. I have had no problem playing the DVDs I burn on any DVD players I've tries thusfar (various toshiba models, pioneer models, and my trust sampo). However, I have been totally and completely thwarted in every attempt to get D-VHS into my computer for burning.

So far, I have tried connecting the D-VHS machine via firewire directly to the computer. That has not worked. Panasonic tech support says that it will not work regardless of how I do it. I can't believe this would be the case, and maybe someone brilliant on this forum has a method of doing this, but none of my software will capture the video digitally. So, strike 1.

So then I tried to transfer the D-VHS material via firewire to my Sony mini-DV decks. Also no good. If it was on mini-DV it would be trivial to capture into the machine to make a DVD from. I was told that the Panasonic D-VHS box will not speak with any other unit except the 50 or 51 STB. If anyone has found a way around this, it would be wonderful.

Please note that the two different types of DVD-Rs are "authoring" and "general." If you try to burn DVDs on a "general" deck using "authoring" media, it just plain won't work. Rather ridiculous that they would call both formats DVD-R, but that's life I guess. There has already been significant confusion in the field regarding which media is used where.

I think that the key is going to be putting something between the HD1000 and the computer that will "translate" pany-speak to computer speak. perhaps a switcher of some sort?



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I think that I will never see
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post #16 of 20 Old 10-11-2001, 02:51 PM
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What you want to do is not currently possible. Just because the physical connection is possible, doesn't mean what's flowing down the wire is automatically understood on the other end. (Like sending video down an RCA cable to the RCA audio input.)

However, if I understand FireWire correctly, if somebody had access to the specs on the Panny format, it should be technically possible to capture and "Transcode" that into a format that can be recognized on a computer. After all bits are bits, just gotta know what they mean. Ideally somebody should write a QuickTime codec that understands Panny HD/MPEG-2. Then you could edit, transfer, compress and burn to DVD to your heart's desire.

For the programmers of the world, the FireWire SDK is available here:
http://developer.apple.com/hardware/...oper_Info.html

Somebody get busy!

Jeremy

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post #17 of 20 Old 10-12-2001, 07:38 AM
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Many have tried to communicate with the Panasonic 1394 gear. To my knowledge, none have succeeded, yet hope springs eternal.

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post #18 of 20 Old 10-12-2001, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Ken, seems like 169's ability to use a DTC100 to play HD1000 tapes is a lot further than anyone else has gotten yet.

dave
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post #19 of 20 Old 10-12-2001, 12:40 PM
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Good point! Come on you programmers, let's figure this thing out! After all bits is bits. Certainly somewhere in the world there is a C programmer with a Panny combo. I have tried to learn C on several occasions but I just can't wrap my brain around it... Maybe there is a REALBasic firewire plugin... off to check...

Jeremy

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post #20 of 20 Old 10-15-2001, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Wow, these prices are great.
Down from $6 each to $3 each in one week:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...threadid=85480

Do I hear less? :cool:

Tomasz
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