Should I bother with D-VHS? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 155 Old 01-30-2005, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I want to be able to watch HD quality movies and hi def DVD seems to be pretty far off right now (At least until prices dip below 1000). Should I get a DVHS deck or just sit and wait for format wars for Hi Def dvd to die down and then for prices to fall?
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post #2 of 155 Old 01-30-2005, 04:48 PM
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No, D-VHS is really on a fill-in until HD DVD/Blu-Ray makes it here. I don't think anyone will know what D-VHS is in another couple of years when the next format takes shape. Get an HD DVR now, and a good HD channel line-up from DirecTV or cable. HD Movies are NOT hard to come by on HD channels.

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post #3 of 155 Old 01-30-2005, 05:19 PM
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Are you doing a new installation? If so, buy a D Theater D-VHS deck since it also acts as an ordinary VHS deck, which you will want from time to time. Then buy all the D Theater movies you want now - in a year they will be very hard to find.
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post #4 of 155 Old 01-31-2005, 03:53 AM
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At this late date, I would recommend waiting for most people. I have been using D-VHS for 5 years and will continue to use it but I can't imagine starting to use it now.

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post #5 of 155 Old 01-31-2005, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok. I guess the general consensus is to wait. Thanks for your inputs.
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post #6 of 155 Old 01-31-2005, 03:51 PM
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I work 2nd shift & time shift my high def. to a JVC 30k DVHS. I got a refurb for $259.Last August & use it with my samsung sirt 165 HD tuner OTA . I also have direct tv with tivo. I think it will be a few more years before another format Of HD recording is this economical!!
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post #7 of 155 Old 01-31-2005, 04:25 PM
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I am assuming you have a monitor that accepts HDCP compliant HDMI or DVI so you are ready for one of the HD disc formats. For someone stuck with analog component inputs only, then D-VHS is still worth consideration if you don't want to upgrade your monitor.

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post #8 of 155 Old 02-01-2005, 07:03 AM
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That's assuming that these new HD optical disk players will not have component outputs. Are we certain of that?
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post #9 of 155 Old 02-01-2005, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by archiguy
That's assuming that these new HD optical disk players will not have component outputs. Are we certain of that?
We are not positive of anything but that is the decision that has been made. Until the products are released and HDTV doesn't work using component video, we won't know for certain. I don't expect the decision to be changed nor have I read any opinions from insiders that decision will be changed. We do know that Panasonic, Sony, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Zenith, LG etc refuse to allow upconversion over component using any current DVD players. It seems silly that fake HDTV would be restricted and real HDTV allowed over component. The precedent has been set. Since there is no control with analog video and the DMCA makes circumventing digital copy protection a crime, the decision is unlikely to change. The owners of copyright protected programming can sell their product on these new formats and have protection by law.

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post #10 of 155 Old 02-01-2005, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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How soon will it be before hi def DVDs do come on the horizon?
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post #11 of 155 Old 02-02-2005, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vikram R
How soon will it be before hi def DVDs do come on the horizon?
Latest prediction I have read is 4th quarter 2005.

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post #12 of 155 Old 02-02-2005, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vikram R
Ok. I guess the general consensus is to wait. Thanks for your inputs.
Wait? HD-DVD won't be until late 2005 at the earliest and $1000. Recordable HD-DVD is late 2006 to 7 at an unknown but initially whopping cost. I use my $300 JVC 30KU D-VHS to archive movies and shows of my HD-DVR, as the number of hours you can record on these STBs is very limited. You won't be able to do that with HD-DVD for a couple of years and at a much higher cost.

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post #13 of 155 Old 02-02-2005, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Ball
Wait? HD-DVD won't be until late 2005 at the earliest and $1000. Recordable HD-DVD is late 2006 to 7 at an unknown but initially whopping cost. I use my $300 JVC 30KU D-VHS to archive movies and shows of my HD-DVR, as the number of hours you can record on these STBs is very limited. You won't be able to do that with HD-DVD for a couple of years and at a much higher cost.

Bill
If somebody buying D-VHS is going to replace it all with HD-DVD or Blu-ray, one to two years of use isn't likely worth the expense. Videotape just isn't comparable to DVD for most people. I am stuck with videotape and can live with it but if you read the posts on these forums, most people have been glad to retire their VCRs forever. Used D-VHS stuff, other than DTheater tapes will likely be worth very little once the new formats are available. I guess you could buy a D-VHS VCR, a few DTheater tapes and a couple of dozen blank tapes and sell it all in a year or two and might have gotten value considering the net cost after salvage but I doubt it. I think the way to look at it would be either buy D-VHS and avoid the new optical formats for many years or just wait. That decision for people who like using DVD and recall what it was like with VHS is probably pretty easy. Read all the complaints about D-VHS recording and playback issues here and that makes the decision even easier.

The owners of HDTVs with only analog inputs that don't want to replace their monitors are the only ones that should consider D-VHS at this late date in my opinion.


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post #14 of 155 Old 02-02-2005, 08:24 PM
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I only paid $300 for the JVC 30KU. If it becomes worthless in a couple of years, that's not a bad deal. I can't find another practical way to archive HD content now and for the next 2 years.

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post #15 of 155 Old 02-02-2005, 09:31 PM
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I just bought a D-VHS deck this Fall and am very glad I did. Timeshifting onto tape is nowhere near as convenient using a DVD player, but how else are you going to be able to timeshift the SuperBowl?

Personally, I am not all that excited about HD-DVD (my projector only has analog inputs) and I believe that the growth of HD-DVD will be slow until the players cost less than $100 and the software (movies) cost $15 or less.

So I say, if you've already got a STB that can feed a D-VHS deck - go for it. If you need to buy both the STB and the D-VHs deck it becomes less clear to me.

The other option you might want to consider for timeshifting HDTV is a HTPC.
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post #16 of 155 Old 02-02-2005, 10:39 PM
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I expect 2006 - 2008 before HD DVD or Bly Ray are relatively bug free and reasonably priced. Maybe later before the format war is settled. Meanwhile I have my DVHS. Also my Mitsubishi 1100 has the best analog portion I have seen. It should be good for my VHS use for years to come.

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post #17 of 155 Old 02-03-2005, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hyrax
Personally, I am not all that excited about HD-DVD (my projector only has analog inputs) and I believe that the growth of HD-DVD will be slow until the players cost less than $100 and the software (movies) cost $15 or less.
Those prices sound great. If that happens in my lifetime, count me in. I agree the product takes off at those prices but I haven't seen any predictions of prices like that. The mass production economies required to reach that, if it is even possible, aren't likely to happen. It took LaserDisc 15 years and the best I recall was $300 players and $30 movies. DVD has obviously reached those levels but it is a mass market product. I think $500 players and $25 movies in a few years make HD-DVD a successful niche product but with just a fraction of the market DVD has.

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post #18 of 155 Old 02-03-2005, 01:07 PM
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It'd be a great adjunct to a firewire-equipped HD-DVR. If the hard disk were filling up you could offload to a $3 tape. Unfortunately our SA-8300s
here in Florida at BHN do not yet have active firewire (or SATA) ports.
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post #19 of 155 Old 02-03-2005, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Gerhard
I think $500 players and $25 movies in a few years make HD-DVD a successful niche product but with just a fraction of the market DVD has.
Chris -
I believe prices for HD-DVDs players and movies need to be much less than you suggest before they can be considered more than a high-end toy. There are DVD players already available for $250 that can play HD transport streams. At $100 for a player I was too low, but I doubt they'll ever take off until you start seeing them well below $500. HD-DVD Movies shouldn't cost more what we're now paying for DVD movies. If they do, few will buy them.

All just my opinion. Where this fits into this thread is that I firmly believe that D-VHS is still a good idea (for certain things) for at least 5 years.

NOTE (Sorry for going off topic): It looks like people have things like Originally posted by Hyrax automatically posted when they quote someone. How is this done?
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post #20 of 155 Old 02-05-2005, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hyrax
NOTE (Sorry for going off topic): It looks like people have things like Originally posted by Hyrax automatically posted when they quote someone. How is this done?
Just click the http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/quote.gif button on the post of the person that you want to quote.
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post #21 of 155 Old 02-05-2005, 07:36 PM
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Interesting... I've no <Quote> button to click. I see otehr buttons <Profile> ... <a picture of the printer>, but no <quote>

Wait, I do see it now on the far right. All these years and I never looked over there.

Thanks!
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post #22 of 155 Old 02-06-2005, 12:46 AM
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i'm not an HD expert like some people here but i feel many are being very optomistic in this forum. HD looks great but the average consumer just doesn't care. DVD is a great format because it works on every television in every household. i don't think people upgraded to dvd from their vhs tapes because of the quality. i think it was because of convenience. the idea of not having to fast forward to the beginning and especially not having to rewind that tape at the end is the main reason for DVD being this popular. i dont think the majority of households will have hd capabilities in the next 2 or 3 years, and even if they do people aren't going to buy the latest and greatest player as soon as they get their tv. i believe it will be quite a few more years before HD-DVD has the chance to really take off. you never know though in a format war where they are rushing titles to the stores in an effort to win over support the competition might be what serves the people best. the other problem is computer support. many people like those lil easter eggs they get for popping the dvd into their dvd-rom drive. we won't see HD drives in computers for quite a time to come. also, when dvd first came out they were able to wow people in a blockbuster. have a tv setup with a dvd player and use the menu to navigate around as people watched in awe. i dont think people will even notice they are watching an hd-dvd unless it has very unique features and they dont want to hear from a salesperson about how great this new amazing technology is.
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post #23 of 155 Old 02-06-2005, 05:26 AM
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Sure , I'd agree. VHS to DVD was a huge shift in the way people watch and buy home movies. HD dvd is more subtle. The appeal will be to those with hd displays initially, and only monied early adopters who will brave the beta wars will jump in quick. Many will hang back for 2nd gen or combi players and to see where the format war goes. It's exciting and disappointing at the same time. I'd be far more jazzed about a single format with all studios on board that had recordability out of the box. What we will get is far less than that...a compromise for greed. It'll be nice to sit back and watch the battle from afar as I record and watch hd with dvr and dvhs. Sort of relaxing not being a ginea pig in this little format war. It will also be tough being a bystander when my must have titles are released ie the remastered for hd (and likley part of the BD launch) Bond collection, Treks on hd-dvd etc. Mixed feelings as you can tell.
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post #24 of 155 Old 02-06-2005, 06:00 AM
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I don't know whether either new optical format will be a success. I do know that D-VHS will not be a success. So much of the D-VHS market will move to one of the formats that even the small market acceptance that D-VHS enjoys now will dwindle. In addition the new formats will get HD enthusiasts that don't want to mess with videotape. By this time next year, I don't expect much discussion of D-VHS on this forum. There will be some remaining users like myself who are so heavily invested in the format and those that don't have an HDTV with HDCP compliance. Most of the remainder will be using one of the new formats and discussing the software which will be greater from day one than D-VHS ever saw.

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post #25 of 155 Old 02-06-2005, 08:04 AM
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I agree that DVHS will eventually dwindle away, but I got a unit at a decent price so I'll use the hell out of it until:

1) HD optical recorders with HDD's in 'em become affordable

or

2) there is enough "worthwhile" HD cable programming to persuade me to move to a cable box with a dvr. ..in which case I can still archive to tape.

or

3) DirecTV's HD DVR box's become affordable and the programming is not so compressed. ... maybe they'll have firewire by then.

I may be waiting awhile.
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post #26 of 155 Old 02-06-2005, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vikram R
I want to be able to watch HD quality movies and hi def DVD seems to be pretty far off right now (At least until prices dip below 1000). Should I get a DVHS deck or just sit and wait for format wars for Hi Def dvd to die down and then for prices to fall?
ABSOLUTELY you should buy a DVHS deck. They are incredible. Whatever anyone says about HD DVR's and hdd storage of HD material, and HD DVD, etc. where are you going to find a format that lets you ARCHIVE HD material to cheap, easily obtainable, easily transportable media like SVHS tape ?
Dirt cheap, fairly reliable, and HD, why would you NOT buy a DVHS deck is more the question, imho.
I've got two now, and LOVE them, especially now that I can tape HD from cable. I'm in heaven and building my HD movie library as fast as I can, and for only $5./title for movies on "repeat" stations, and $12. for ppv titles(includes the cost of blank tape.).
Does anyone seriously think HD DVD's will be less than $50. each for the first few years ? HD DVD will be a niche marked, just as small as DVHS for years, so you can be sure they'll stick it to you on price.
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post #27 of 155 Old 02-18-2005, 11:07 AM
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I'm loving my one-week old JVC 5U, because it's able to record all the HD channels from my 6412 from Comcast, and that means capturing broadcast material in HD that I may never otherwise be able to get if I don't have a recorder now. I upgraded to an HD CRT only 3 weeks after getting the 6412 just after Christmas, and then the 5U 3 weeks after getting the HDTV, as the 6412 hard drive is just too small, and since it's not "mine" I want to "own" my own copies. While D-VHS is doomed to being even more on the margins when HD-DVD and Blu-ray become available, it still seems at least a year, and maybe two or more, until affordable HiDef DVD recorders are available, and I'll have quite a library by then. There will always be blank tape around, and having D-VHS should allow me to wait a little longer on a HD DVD recorder to get better bang for my buck. But if I weren't able to record enough HD material, I would have no reason to get a D-VHS.

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post #28 of 155 Old 02-19-2005, 07:09 PM
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Well said, leftjab, gn2 and bootron.
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post #29 of 155 Old 02-20-2005, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by leftjab
I'm loving my one-week old JVC 5U, because it's able to record all the HD channels from my 6412 from Comcast, and that means capturing broadcast material in HD that I may never otherwise be able to get if I don't have a recorder now. I upgraded to an HD CRT only 3 weeks after getting the 6412 just after Christmas, and then the 5U 3 weeks after getting the HDTV, as the 6412 hard drive is just too small, and since it's not "mine" I want to "own" my own copies. While D-VHS is doomed to being even more on the margins when HD-DVD and Blu-ray become available, it still seems at least a year, and maybe two or more, until affordable HiDef DVD recorders are available, and I'll have quite a library by then. There will always be blank tape around, and having D-VHS should allow me to wait a little longer on a HD DVD recorder to get better bang for my buck. But if I weren't able to record enough HD material, I would have no reason to get a D-VHS.
a) it's just a matter of time when HD DVD/ BR will be replaced with something new. That goes for any technology not only DVHS.
b) HD DVD/BR will have slow start, as other people mentioned average consumer won't care that much to spend so much extra money (HD TV, HD DVD, HD cable box for starters) to get a little beter picture.
c) DVHS will work as well when HD DVD shows up as it is now. I doubt there will be much difference in PQ. You can wait forever for better technology, there is always something new on the horizon.
d) I had DVD standing next to my old VHS player for many years. Don't see any reason why my DVHS can't be used along HD DVD when I get it. At least I can wait and see what's going on with format war.
e) I watch and record HD now and for the price I paid for my DVHS deck even if I use it for 1yr or 2 it will be worth it. BTW if and when I do get HD DVD/BR it will be replacing my current DVD player not DVHS.
I do use my DVHS exclusively for HD recordings and playback, since for all SD material I use DVD, however it took me some time to get everything to work on DVD. I have this feeling it will take some time for HD DVD to become as flexible to replace DVHS completely.
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post #30 of 155 Old 02-20-2005, 06:24 AM
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As long as your cable system stays with mpeg2, and they have a firewire box, you will always have a use for d-vhs. I plan on buying a dh5u in a few weeks. I also plan on getting as my movies as i can from comcast. Satellite guys using 169 time or something similar will be out of luck when directv/dish switch to mpeg4. They'll either have to switch to cable, or get a hd-dvd/blu-ray. Would definitely be cheaper to switch to cable. If i can get 1-2 years worth out of my d-vhs player, its still very much worth it. Thats literally 100's of movies that you would have in your library, that you wouldnt need to buy again. If you calculate, it would still be worth keeping your d-vhs player just to play those back. And who knows, these new formats may not be able to record as easily as the d-vhs decks. They're trying to stuff it with all this new security crap and protections to keep us from doing what they're suppose to do, record. Plus, paying $30-$40 for blanks, sort of defeats the purpose, for me anyway, to record off premiums etc. I might as well just buy the damn movie, which is what they want. People dont really think they are gonna bring out $40 movies, and then have blanks that are significantly cheaper, that we could go record the same movie in nice quality, off hbo that we already pay for.

I think i'll be happy with my d-vhs deck, everyone can go spend thousands of dollars on one of the two formats, with the hope that format isnt the one that dies off. It may end up becoming like d-vhs like other ppl have already stated, a niche market. Most ppl cant really tell the difference between a good dvd, and hdtv, even on smaller sets, which most have. Not many ppl have the 113" screens like some of you rich guys here. Hell, some ppl cant/or dont want to see the difference between hdtv and sdtv. Thing is, almost everybody has a dvd player, even the oldest of people. That isnt gonna be the case with these new formats.
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