8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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HDTV Recorders > 8300HD and External SATA - It Works!!
pepar's Avatar pepar 04:24 PM 08-04-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

It isn't just the price that will keep you away, I'm fairly certain they implement the port replication that is specifically indicated by SA to not be supported...

Cool, I like it when things I can't afford won't work anyway.

sanker's Avatar sanker 05:49 PM 08-04-2005
duh, should have put it together before I posted. disk slips into the data and power connector. I had it in my head that it would mount further away from the connector and one of the sata cables would connect the two. So, why is there an external sata power? Initial impression is the disk and enclosure are whisper quiet. Still think I'll put it behind the rack of AV stuff since it doesn't really fit in.

-Sean
tony57's Avatar tony57 08:15 AM 08-05-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanker View Post

Initial impression is the disk and enclosure are whisper quiet. Still think I'll put it behind the rack of AV stuff since it doesn't really fit in.
-Sean

Same set-up here. Its quiet, but if everything is shut-down in my system, I can just about hear the drive working. I put larger rubber feet on the unit and it helped a bit. The added storage space is great (and needed for HD recordings).
jtomdd's Avatar jtomdd 08:32 AM 08-05-2005
I've got a Seagate 300G SATA which has been working beautifully. I just tried to go to diags as I have done many times before. Instead things locked up and the display went to "hddf", eventually followed by a reboot. It then became clear that "hddf" meant it was formatting the drives. I had lost all recorded programs and shceduled recordings. Not a serious loss, life threatining or anything, but irritating.

Do I just put this down to "stuff happens" or was I in some way responsible?
pepar's Avatar pepar 08:41 AM 08-05-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtomdd View Post

I've got a Seagate 300G SATA which has been working beautifully. I just tried to go to diags as I have done many times before. Instead things locked up and the display went to "hddf", eventually followed by a reboot. It then became clear that "hddf" meant it was formatting the drives. I had lost all recorded programs and shceduled recordings. Not a serious loss, life threatining or anything, but irritating.

Do I just put this down to "stuff happens" or was I in some way responsible?

Umm, yeah, caca pasa.
vegggas's Avatar vegggas 09:43 AM 08-05-2005
Those of you with drives equal to or greater than 300GB, can you check your partition information in the diagnostics pages (last three pages)? During testing, I'm seeing a partition limit discrepancy at 300GB.
On the HDD Info Page, the 300GB drive reports as a 279GB formatted space.
On the Partition Info Page for the external drive, the 279GB formatted space shows only 259GB available on the AV partition.
The internal 160GB drive formats as 152GB with a 150GB AV partition.
Can someone confirm similar results with another 300GB drive?
Those with larger drives, are the results showing increased usable partition size, or is the usable AV partition staying at only 259GB?

This is one of the only issues I've found so far during my testing, and a detailed report will follow. So far, the Quickview Expander is a winner for ease of use and WAF (even let her hook it up for installation analysis).

vegggas
pepar's Avatar pepar 09:56 AM 08-05-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

Those of you with drives equal to or greater than 300GB, can you check your partition information in the diagnostics pages (last three pages)? During testing, I'm seeing a partition limit discrepancy at 300GB.
On the HDD Info Page, the 300GB drive reports as a 279GB formatted space.
On the Partition Info Page for the external drive, the 279GB formatted space shows only 259GB available on the AV partition.
The internal 160GB drive formats as 152GB with a 150GB AV partition.
Can someone confirm similar results with another 300GB drive?
Those with larger drives, are the results showing increased usable partition size, or is the usable AV partition staying at only 259GB?

This is one of the only issues I've found so far during my testing, and a detailed report will follow. So far, the Quickview Expander is a winner for ease of use and WAF (even let her hook it up for installation analysis).

vegggas

Have you considered the diifferent ways of measuring hard drive space? For example, the larger hard drive is "called" 160 GB, but it's routinely listed as ~152 GB. Perhaps one spec is measured with one method and the others are using a different one.
vegggas's Avatar vegggas 11:11 AM 08-05-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Have you considered the diifferent ways of measuring hard drive space? For example, the larger hard drive is "called" 160 GB, but it's routinely listed as ~152 GB. Perhaps one spec is measured with one method and the others are using a different one.

Yes, I'm aware of that. I know the internal drive is 160GB and formats to 152GB. There are two 1GB PARTITIONS for buffer data and OS, and that leaves 150GB for the AV PARTITION. This information was put into the post as a reference for the internal drive so that people would know that advertised space(160) vs. formatted space(152) vs. usable recording space(150) is different.
My concern is the external drive PARTITION information does not match up. The 300GB drive formats to 279GB (as reported in diagnostics). The AV PARTITION though, is only 259GB in size (as reported in diagnostics). I'm trying to determine if there is a physical AV PARTITION LIMIT of 259GB in the firmware of the STB when using large drives. Those with larger drives should easily be able to determine the usable AV partition drive size to see if does go past this limit, or if it's not supported and a waste of money.

vegggas
pepar's Avatar pepar 12:14 PM 08-05-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

. I'm trying to determine if there is a physical AV PARTITION LIMIT of 259GB in the firmware of the STB when using large drives. Those with larger drives should easily be able to determine the usable AV partition drive size to see if does go past this limit, or if it's not supported and a waste of money.

vegggas

Gotcha!
BenDover's Avatar BenDover 03:00 PM 08-05-2005
veggas...I'll check my 400gb setup tonight and report back for you...
BenDover's Avatar BenDover 08:11 AM 08-06-2005
hmmm, i can't get any info on either drive on the last few pages so i can't verify the partition sizes...strange, maybe i need to cycle the power and restart the unit.
pepar's Avatar pepar 08:52 AM 08-06-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

hmmm, i can't get any info on either drive on the last few pages so i can't verify the partition sizes...strange, maybe i need to cycle the power and restart the unit.

Don't kniow if this is your problem or not, but on mine many of the "pages" contain no data when first displayed; it takes a few seconds - polling the firmware/hardware, perhaps.
vegggas's Avatar vegggas 12:36 PM 08-06-2005
Here are the three pages on my system.
HDD INFO - Page 32/34 (see image HDD_INFO.jpg) Notice Formatted CAPACITY for each drive (Drive 1=152, Drive 2=279)
PARTITION INFO - Page 33/34 (see image Drive1.jpg) Notice each Partiton size (3 total) adds up to usable capacity (1+150+1=152)
PARTITION INFO - Page 34/34 (see image Drive2.jpg) Notice each Partition does not equal usable capacity (1+259+1=261 instead of 279)

SARA is: 1.87.16.1
OS is: 6.14.11.1

So far, I have not seen a usable AV partition that exceeds the 259 GB limit possibly imposed by the firmware. I would like to see if any of the larger drives installed take advantage of the extra space. If it doesn't, then lager drives would be a waste of money in this application.
At this point, I am only reccomending the Quickdrive Expander 160GB and 300GB drive kits. This is for correct drive size, type (less error correcting) and included 6.5 ft e-SATA cable and 12ft power cable, stand, feet, etc. This is not to say other setups don't work, but that the APPROVED setup DOES work, so far, flawlessly. A detailed report will follow after I get more information.

vegggas
LL
LL
LL
BenDover's Avatar BenDover 02:54 PM 08-06-2005
This is weird, all of my pages, 32-34, show "Unavailable" for everything...I let it sit on each page for some time but the information did not change...
hyedipin's Avatar hyedipin 07:42 AM 08-08-2005
What kind of files do you see when you connect your HDD to the PC after recording from 8300?
Thanks.
sanker's Avatar sanker 07:58 AM 08-08-2005
400g seagate disk (macmall) in enclosure from newegg
update:
turned everything off.
plugged in the sata cable
turned on the sata drive
wait 30 seconds
plug in then press power button on 8300hd
message comes up if I want to format
I say yes, nothing happens
I then press button on remote which tells 8300hd "yes"
drive is usable. recording capacity went from 69% full to 17%.
I'll check the diag. screens tonight for usable space. sure hope there is not a 300g limit.
-Sean
pepar's Avatar pepar 08:09 AM 08-08-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanker View Post

400g seagate disk (macmall) in enclosure from newegg
update:
turned everything off.
plugged in the sata cable
turned on the sata drive
wait 30 seconds
plug in then press power button on 8300hd
message comes up if I want to format
I say yes, nothing happens
I then press button on remote which tells 8300hd "yes"
drive is usable. recording capacity went from 69% full to 17%.
I'll check the diag. screens tonight for usable space. sure hope there is not a 300g limit.
-Sean

Have you accessed the DIAGs to see what capacity the box sees?
pepar's Avatar pepar 08:15 AM 08-08-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

So far, I have not seen a usable AV partition that exceeds the 259 GB limit possibly imposed by the firmware. I would like to see if any of the larger drives installed take advantage of the extra space. If it doesn't, then lager drives would be a waste of money in this application.
At this point, I am only reccomending the Quickdrive Expander 160GB and 300GB drive kits. This is for correct drive size, type (less error correcting) and included 6.5 ft e-SATA cable and 12ft power cable, stand, feet, etc. This is not to say other setups don't work, but that the APPROVED setup DOES work, so far, flawlessly. A detailed report will follow after I get more information.

vegggas

It's not out of the question that there is a capacity limit; MS-DOS and the various flavors of Windows have had limits on addressable memory and storage since day 1. Ninety-nine point nine-nine-nine-nine percent of users have never bumped into them, but they've been there. And how excited can the powers be about us all having terabytes of their content stored for use and "abuse?"
sanker's Avatar sanker 10:25 AM 08-08-2005
Just talked my daughter through getting into diagnostic mode.

#1=152g, #2=372g
looks like I have two bits of good news. The DVR is a 160g internal disk (I thought it was 80g for some reason) and the 400g I added is formatted as a 400g!!

-Sean
vegggas's Avatar vegggas 11:05 AM 08-08-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanker View Post

Just talked my daughter through getting into diagnostic mode.

#1=152g, #2=372g
looks like I have two bits of good news. The DVR is a 160g internal disk (I thought it was 80g for some reason) and the 400g I added is formatted as a 400g!!

-Sean

We know it FORMATS as a 400 gig drive, but what is the PARTITION size? Look at the screens I supplied in my previous post to see the partition information. You will not gain any recording space unless the partition is increased.
All but the first run of 8300 DVR's had 160GB internal drives.
vegggas
sanker's Avatar sanker 05:07 PM 08-08-2005
ok, partition size: 353
(for what it's worth, free space listed as 292)

-Sean
vegggas's Avatar vegggas 11:20 PM 08-08-2005
Quote:
ok, partition size: 353
(for what it's worth, free space listed as 292)
-Sean

Thanks for the feedback! For a few days, it looked like a 300GB drive was the largest usable drive in terms of partition space.

Anyone else with hard numbers?

vegggas
BenDover's Avatar BenDover 05:05 AM 08-09-2005
The thing that sticks in my mind is that 300GB isn't one of those legacy limitations that have ever existed; the last I can recall was 137GB.
pepar's Avatar pepar 06:25 AM 08-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

The thing that sticks in my mind is that 300GB isn't one of those legacy limitations that have ever existed; the last I can recall was 137GB.

Am I correct that you're thinking about DOS/Windows? If so, these boxes most likely run neither; the last person they'd want involved is Billy Boy.
tony57's Avatar tony57 08:08 AM 08-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

Anyone else with hard numbers?
vegggas

Why do you need the partition size?
I was at 50% usage on a 160g before I added the external drive. If I add a 300g the 50% will drop to 17% (50% / (460/160). If I add 400g it should drop to 14%.
When I added my 400g, the % used droped as expected, so I know I'm using the full 400g.
pepar's Avatar pepar 08:41 AM 08-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony57 View Post

Why do you need the partition size?
I was at 50% usage on a 160g before I added the external drive. If I add a 300g the 50% will drop to 17% (50% / (460/160). If I add 400g it should drop to 14%.
When I added my 400g, the % used droped as expected, so I know I'm using the full 400g.

I think vegggas is still not 100% confident that there's no 300GB limit . . .
BenDover's Avatar BenDover 09:18 AM 08-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Am I correct that you're thinking about DOS/Windows? If so, these boxes most likely run neither; the last person they'd want involved is Billy Boy.

Good point!
vegggas's Avatar vegggas 11:06 AM 08-09-2005
So far, the yields of larger extended drives are:
160GB Drive = 150GB AV partition
300GB Drive = 259GB AV partition
400GB Drive = 353GB AV partition (thanks Sean)

The partition size is the ONLY thing that dictates how much data you can store on a given drive. If the firmware does not recognize a larger partition size, then there would be a limit to the information able to be recorded. Both Replay and Tivo went through limitations at one point before work arounds were found. I was just hoping that this is not the case with the 8300 series. So far, only one person has been able to identify their partition size and accurately determine their STB is showing a usable partition of 353GB from a 400GB drive.

vegggas
pepar's Avatar pepar 11:11 AM 08-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

So far, the yields of larger extended drives are:
160GB Drive = 150GB AV partition
300GB Drive = 259GB AV partition
400GB Drive = 353GB AV partition (thanks Sean)

The partition size is the ONLY thing that dictates how much data you can store on a given drive. If the firmware does not recognize a larger partition size, then there would be a limit to the information able to be recorded. Both Replay and Tivo went through limitations at one point before work arounds were found. I was just hoping that this is not the case with the 8300 series. So far, only one person has been able to identify their partition size and accurately determine their STB is showing a usable partition of 353GB from a 400GB drive.

vegggas

You're obviously all over this issue; have there been people who have mis-identified their partition size - hooked up a larger drive and the system NOT recognize it, or not recognize all of the additional space?

Just curious - why is there a nearly 50GB loss on a 400GB drive? Overhead, or the normal discrepancy between "advertised" and "actual?"
BenDover's Avatar BenDover 11:50 AM 08-09-2005
It is not so much a discrepancy between advertised and actual as it is they use different terminology/definitions; that coupled with the normal "overhead" when formatting and you lose what seems to be a large chunk of your drive(s)...it has been this way for as long as there have been hard drives
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