8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 9018 Old 03-09-2005, 12:11 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DMILANI
No, you must get the cable I listed above, and as far as I could tell, this was the only source in USA.

Thanks for the info!

Something like this was what I was talking about:
http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA/rm1110.htm

e.SATA enclosure -> SATA hard drive
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post #32 of 9018 Old 03-09-2005, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Be carefull of those Highpoint eSata interfaces. Highpoint jury-rigged their own "external" SATA connector before the SATA II spec. was ever finalized. This looks nothing like the SATA II connector on the back of the 8300HD.

You'd be better off with an external enclosure that has a standard SATA I port made for either external or internal SATA I cables (they both use the same connector). Then use the cable outline in my original post.

Again, I did a lot of research, and there are no external enclosures currently that support SATA II directly.

-D
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post #33 of 9018 Old 03-09-2005, 12:36 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DMILANI
Again, I did a lot of research, and there are no external enclosures currently that support SATA II directly.

Thanks again for the info. Now I see what the "e.SATA" thing is about (and why I couldn't find much info on it).

So ... you can currently get a SATA II drive ...
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...144-363&depa=0
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...144-359&depa=0
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...145-075&depa=0

But ... no one is making SATA II enclosures ...
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post #34 of 9018 Old 03-09-2005, 12:39 PM
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DMILANI:

Great post, I have a really dumb question though, How is the external SATA Hard drive powered?

Lon
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post #35 of 9018 Old 03-09-2005, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually, more specifically, no one is making an external enclosure with a SATA II "external" connector. Those SATA II drives you pointed out have the regular old SATA I "internal" connector on them. But, you don't need to buy a SATA II drive to work with the 8300HD - any old SATA I drive should work fine (that's what I'm using).

The SATA II spec. added a special connector for "external" connections that's more robust, etc., and this is what the 8300HD has on its backside.

That's why you need the SATA I to SATA II cable.

Hope this helps.

-D
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post #36 of 9018 Old 03-09-2005, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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LJG, the enclosure I bought came with an AC power adapter that plugs right into the back of the enclosure (which is really just the power connector on the drive).
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post #37 of 9018 Old 03-09-2005, 12:45 PM
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That explains a lot, thanks
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post #38 of 9018 Old 03-09-2005, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Also note that the enclosure I bought simply has a cutout on back that allows the power and SATA cables to plug directly into the drive.

But I've seen other enclosures that wire internally to another set of connectors on the back of the unit, but these still maintain the standard SATA I connector, meaning the same SATA I to SATA II cable could be used.
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post #39 of 9018 Old 03-09-2005, 01:17 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DMILANI
Hope this helps.

Ditto what LJG said ... it helped alot ... thanks.
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post #40 of 9018 Old 03-09-2005, 07:55 PM
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Ok... I went to Fry's and picked up the Seagate 300GB SATA drive for $169 (after $50 rebate) and this enclosure:

http://www.apricorn.com/product_details.php?ID=432

It was $79 with a $15 rebate and includes a SATA card, which I needed anyway for my second machine at home. The card has a Sillicon Image chipset, an external SATA port, and a bracket with a hole in it that's presumably for a second external SATA port (haven't checked that).

I haven't looked closely at the connectors, but assume I need to order the SATA-1 to SATA-II cable from Cruz Systems before I can find out if this works.

Now to figure out which version of SARA I have...

UPDATE: it's 1.85.19.1. Since that's newer than 1.85.17.3, hopefullly the SATA port will work.

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post #41 of 9018 Old 03-10-2005, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, InvaderZim. I took a look at the user's manual for the enclosure you ordered (much higher quality look than the one I bought) and it definately has the original SATA I connector. So, the Cruz cable will work perfectly with this.

-D
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post #42 of 9018 Old 03-10-2005, 07:46 AM
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I also found this enclousure:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...145-369&depa=0

that uses IDE HDD not SATA HDD and offers both USB 2.0 and SATA interface (you will still need the SATA II to STAT 1.0 cable). IDE HDD is cheaper and the additional USB 2.0 port means even if the thing doesn't work with my 8300HD, I can still use it with any of my PCs.
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post #43 of 9018 Old 03-10-2005, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Foxbat, my only concern with this is that there is some type of parallel to serial conversion happening inside this enclosure (to translate from IDE to SATA). Even if you use the fastest IDE drives available (ATA133), will this provide the full 133MB/s required by the 8300HD? Or will there be overhead associated with the translation that will limit throughput and create issues?

I don't know the answer to this, but something to think about.
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post #44 of 9018 Old 03-10-2005, 09:23 AM
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A lot of old SATA HDD (most SATA 1.0 drive) do the SATA->IDE inside the drive anyway. No HDD in the market today can support sustained transfer rate > 100MB/s. Most you can get is 60~80MB/s max.
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post #45 of 9018 Old 03-10-2005, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Fair enough, I was just referring to the specs. called out by SA for the hard drive. I would still find it hard to believe that a new SATA 150 drive would not provide faster throughput than an IDE drive.

Of course, you really won't know for sure if the potential throughput differences would cause the 8300HD to work or not until you try it.

Let us know how it works out!
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post #46 of 9018 Old 03-10-2005, 10:05 AM
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The Seagate 300GB has native command queueing, so I suspect that means it's a native SATA drive, rather than a converted IDE drive.

I just ordered the cable, so I'll post again when it arrives to let you all know if it works.

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post #47 of 9018 Old 03-10-2005, 10:36 AM
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All of the Seagate SATAs are native SATA, even the ones that does not support NCQ. Most SATA 1.0 WD and Maxtor HDDs are indead converted IDE drives. All the new generation HDDs that support NCQ will be native SATA. SATA drive does not necessary faster than IDE drive. After all the internal stuff are exactly the same. The only difference is interface and NCQ in SATA II. IDE ATA 66 is actually fast enough to support all the 7200 rpm HDDs we have today.
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post #48 of 9018 Old 03-10-2005, 02:43 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DMILANI
Kromkamp, you could simply fill up the internal drive (with arbitrary recordings) with the external drive disconnected, and then connect up the external SATA. From that point on, all future recordings would be placed on the external drive. -D

True, but that makes it difficult to use the box as an actual PVR. Unless you *never* use the internal drive, and always use external drives.
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post #49 of 9018 Old 03-11-2005, 10:04 PM
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In addition to these, Seagate has a bunch of SATA II drives. All their drives with NCQ are SATA II. But, as you say, they still use the SATA connector.
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post #50 of 9018 Old 03-12-2005, 06:18 AM
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i know what the answer is in theory but i will bring it up anyway:

after recording some shows, what happens if you plug this into your computer via sata

will the computer even recognize the file system? can it be used some way for archiving even with different stb's?
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post #51 of 9018 Old 03-12-2005, 10:02 AM
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All the contents are encrypted on the HDD using the STB specific key. You can't access the contents from a PC nor any other STBs.
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post #52 of 9018 Old 03-12-2005, 10:52 PM
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We need to send Rogers an email explaining that if we use SATA II
external drives to archive HD movies and then the 8300 STB PVR craps
out what security do we have that the replacement PVR will be able to
access archived drives .

We then explain that if this is not addressed then competing technology
will offer security and they will lose customers.

If enough people email there cable companies with complaints then they will feel the pressure to comply .
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post #53 of 9018 Old 03-13-2005, 07:43 AM
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I am awaiting the SATA enclosure, does anyone know where I can pick up an AC adapter to use temporarily until the enclosure arrives?
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post #54 of 9018 Old 03-13-2005, 08:39 AM
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REWJR,

I suspect that this "feature" (keying the external drive to the specific box) is a requirement of the program providers (HBO, etc.) to allow the use of external drives. If they didn't have this keying it would provide a "backdoor" path to the distribution of protected program material.

You can argue "digital copy rights" all you want - BUT if incorporating this keying into the system is what it takes to enable me to expand the storage capacity of my rented 8300HD - then I am in favor of it!

Dave Hancock
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post #55 of 9018 Old 03-13-2005, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Foxbat121
I also found this enclousure:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...145-369&depa=0

that uses IDE HDD not SATA HDD and offers both USB 2.0 and SATA interface (you will still need the SATA II to STAT 1.0 cable). IDE HDD is cheaper and the additional USB 2.0 port means even if the thing doesn't work with my 8300HD, I can still use it with any of my PCs.

I just ordered this unit, I'm going to pull a 160GB HD out of one of my PC's to see if it works. If it does, great, if not, I'll be out 40 bucks.

We'll see if WOW! has the port enabled or not, Firmware 1.85.19.1

Andy

Not a single Monsterously over hyped cable to be found in my system.
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post #56 of 9018 Old 03-13-2005, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DMILANI
Yes, InvaderZim. I took a look at the user's manual for the enclosure you ordered (much higher quality look than the one I bought) and it definately has the original SATA I connector. So, the Cruz cable will work perfectly with this.
-D

I put the Apricorn case together with the Seagate drive, installed the card and attached it to my computer. I'm getting 50mb/sec when I use Nero->Preferences->Cache to test the drive.

BTW, The Apricron Ez-Bus case is by far the nicest external drive case I've used (and I've used a lot of the cheapies). It's solid aluminum with a real smooth feel and that drive is in there *tight*. I was worried about noise since the case has a fan, but the fan is large and mounted horizontally underneath the drive (it's not a little 1" fan at the back of the case -- the whining noise from those is really annoying). The only thing I don't like is the external power supply brick which looks exactly like so many others I have, but there's not really room insice for a power supply.

So I won't cry if it doesn't work (I can use it for video editing), but I hope it does.

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post #57 of 9018 Old 03-13-2005, 11:40 AM
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So, why do you waste time testing it on your PC? Plug it into your 8300HD and let us know if it works
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post #58 of 9018 Old 03-13-2005, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Foxbat121
So, why do you waste time testing it on your PC? Plug it into your 8300HD and let us know if it works

Because the SATA-1 to SATA-II cable won't be here until Monday or Tuesday; I have to submit the rebates and need to know if the drive and case work before I cut the UPCs off the boxes.

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post #59 of 9018 Old 03-14-2005, 08:40 AM
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Dmilani:

Thanks so much, using your instructions and raw materials I just connected a maxtor 300GB external hard drive, works perfectly Cablevision, woodbury, NY.

Lon
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post #60 of 9018 Old 03-14-2005, 08:52 AM
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LJG (and others),

When you report success/failure, please post your software versions and SARA or Passport, please.

Thanks!
/temple
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