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post #631 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 08:52 AM
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I would follow the same basic steps as installation to get the drive back in sync.
Turn OFF the DVR, then unplug it. Remove power from the Drive and wait a moment for it to spin down. Re-apply power to the drive and let it spin up. Re-apply power to the DVR and watch the screen and it should sync up to the drive.

I would not select the option to reformat (to save your shows), if asked.

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post #632 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

I would not select the option to reformat (to save your shows), if asked.

Thanks I will try that later when I get home but when I first connected it I thought I recalled it did an auto-reformat. Are you sure I will have an option to bypass that?
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post #633 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 09:14 AM
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If a new drive is found, the screen will ask if you if you want to reformat the connected drive. You have to press the "A" button to reformat. Not sure if there is a timeout after 5 minutes, where it will automatically reformat if no button is pressed, but if the TV and STB is on, you should see any messages displayed from the STB (not sure if you see messags using HDMI out).

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post #634 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 10:31 AM
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J08M300 QUICKVIEW EXPANDER 300GB 7200RPM SATA 150 16MB
I received the unit on Wednesday September 14 20051.
I connected it to my SA83000 HD PVR as per instructions and it was recognized and functioning with no apparent problem (the cable that comes with is an eSATA cable with the identical connector at both ends). it is set up on its edge using the stand provided.

Now for the concern.

I recorded a number of shows (Head Cases,HD The OC HD The Grid SD CSIHD). On playback I experienced some intermittent "audio and video skipping and freezing lasting less than a second at each occurence. This occurred on all of the shows with the worst being the OC about 10 instances Head Cases about 6 instances The Grid about three instances. All of the shows were recorded on the external drive as per the explanation that it has more space available. I played back the shows a couple of times and the skipping occurred at the same part of the show every time. I played Prison Break which I had recorded on Monday so It resides on the DVR internal drive and it had no instances of skipping or freezing. SARA firmware is 1.87.16.a11.

Thursday September 15
re- recorded OC on time shift while watching it live. Live was Ok Data loss on replay.
I did go into diagnostic mode yesterday and FDC signal strength is all white ( -7db) so within parameters.
Friday September 16
I played with this problem a bit more morning. I recorded a new HD show and watched with no problem. When I played back I got a brief audio/video skip. But when I rewound and replayed over the spot the skip was gone or so brief as to not be noticeable. I experienced this on two different programs one newly recorded and one from Wednesday night (Head Cases). I spoke with Maxtor tech support and they offered to exchange the drive and cable
. We rewatched (for the third time) Head Cases which was recorded on Wed. and this time the audio/video skips occurred at different places in the program than before. And there was no problem in most of the spots where the problems occurred on initial and second replay. And by rewinding over the point of problem the recording became smooth again in most instances.
We watched Head Cases until about 9:15 with the last 10 min of the show being problem free.
Friday September 16 p.m
I was recording Threshold CBS HD and Alien VS Predator TMN 301 SD. Both programs started at 9:P.M. I started watching Threshold at about 9:30 p.m. after rewinding it to the beginning. I was getting frequent picture and audio breakup (it looked like the old days of the Macroblocking/pixellation problem in some instances in others it was just an audio drop or a frame skip or a quick freeze) and the trick of rewinding over the point of data loss did not correct the problem. In effect I was recording 2 shows while watching a third with a significant increase in the problem. Could this be a buffer overload issue or compression issue which relates to the SA83000 HD PVR combined with the external drive? I watched the Recording of Threshold again on Saturday with no other activity going on and found that the brief data drop/audio video freezing occurred but not as frequently.
Perhaps some of you more technically oriented participants could comment?

Monday September 19.

Received my exchange J08M300 QUICKVIEW EXPANDER 300GB 7200RPM SATA 150 16MB and cable. Connected it and started recording. Same problem with data drops as reported before. Spoke to Scientific Atlanta Tech support around the issues of larger drive size 300GB VS 160GB faster drove speed and larger cache. I also exchanged my SA8300HD PVR just in case with no improvement showing. The SA tech suggested that they my have to change the firmware on the box to accommodate the larger unit. Any comments or suggestions re the size of the drive the cache or the drive speed 7200rpm Vs 5400rpm on the 160GB Quickview Expander?
Firmware version is 1.87.16.a11.
Sorry for the long explanation but after talking to both Scientific Atlanta Support and Maxtor Support without much success I am hoping for some suggestions
My provider Rogers in Ontario does not support external drive connection even though the current firmware allows it to work. A number of people in Ontario have built their own external drive, enclosure and SATA cable combination and it works fine.
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post #635 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 12:05 PM
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ANDY.A:

Welcome to the forum. Please add your location to your sig. People can help better when they know where you are.

I'm in Toronto and assume you are too. I don't have an external drive, but can say my 8300 works perfectly OK. It's interesting that you recorded something while watching live, which was OK, but the play back showed the problem. As you probably know, the DVR always plays back from the hard drive, which is how features like pause etc. work for live TV. It does sound like your second drive is suspect, although I don't know why it would be. Have you tried the replacement drive yet?

Please keep us posted.
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post #636 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdp1276 View Post

I have the Maxter QuickView Expander eSata external drive connected to my 8300HD and all has been working great. However I had a power surge today and lost power causing the 8300HD box to reboot. When it came back up I now have a yellow light on the external drive in addition to the typical green one. All my shows appeared in my list of the 8300HD but it says 1% usage when I have 10 HD shows and last night it said 10% so something is incorrect. I don't want to lose any of my shows and wonder if someone else has seen this and what would you recommend my correct sequence of next steps should be in order to resolve whatever this yellow light issue is trying to tell me?

Perhaps this is "close the barn door after the horse runs away" advice, but it is important. Like any electronic device, the 8300HD and expansion drive should be - AT MINIMUM - on a quality surge suppressor. The better way to go is to have them connected to an uninterruptable power supply. In many cases of lost power, the cable signal continues. Irregardless, if the power is never removed from the box and drive, it will never have to reboot.

We do not have "ownership" of content recorded. It is our responsibility to do what we can to preserve it with the understanding that if the box goes south and needs to be replaced, we LOSE the content. If the hard drive takes a header, we LOSE the content. Perhaps there is one, but I know of no way to backup or image the expansion drive.

Some cable providers choose not to support expansion drives, and those who do activate the port will not support the external drives themselves.

It's a jungle out there and we're on our own.
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post #637 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Perhaps this is "close the barn door after the horse runs away" advice, but it is important. Like any electronic device, the 8300HD and expansion drive should be - AT MINIMUM - on a quality surge suppressor.

I do have it on a good surge protector and the house never lost power during the thunderstorm. I refuse to add an APC for a DVR with a hard drive.
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post #638 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdp1276 View Post

I do have it on a good surge protector and the house never lost power during the thunderstorm. I refuse to add an APC for a DVR with a hard drive.

From your previous post: "However I had a power surge today and lost power causing the 8300HD box to reboot."

Anyway, whether you did or didn't, a UPS would eliminate the problem. I've got mine on a UPS and I'd bet I'm not the only one. They can be had for very little money on ebay. I picked up six or seven 1000's last year for about $65 each. A few needed new batteries, but they're ~$50 each if you know where to look. Cosmetically, they look like sh*t, but I keep them hidden.

I'm not saying that you SHOULD have a UPS, only pointing out the advantage.
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post #639 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 03:17 PM
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Just ordered the hitachi 500GB drive and the cooldrives enclosure. Should have it all friday. I'll post my thoughts when i get it going.

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post #640 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAlletto View Post

Just ordered the hitachi 500GB drive and the cooldrives enclosure. Should have it all friday. I'll post my thoughts when i get it going.

I am just about to order the same combo as you. Probably this weekend when I get some time. I plan on measuring the temperture and if it's still too hot, I may get this

http://www.alltronics.com/12vdc_fans.htm (Part #04F008)

It's 12V and only 10mm thick and about 50mm square. I figure a few drill holes for air flow and a few more for mounting it in the back of the case may do the trick.
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post #641 of 9021 Old 09-20-2005, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assJack1 View Post

I am just about to order the same combo as you. Probably this weekend when I get some time. I plan on measuring the temperture and if it's still too hot, I may get this

http://www.alltronics.com/12vdc_fans.htm (Part #04F008)

It's 12V and only 10mm thick and about 50mm square. I figure a few drill holes for air flow and a few more for mounting it in the back of the case may do the trick.

Just a thought for you: A big fan running at lower RPM will move the same air as a smaller fan running faster, but make less noise. More blades is better than less. You might also look at the quality of the bearings as this will be running 24/7, won't it?
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post #642 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 04:52 AM
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pepar:

You have very good points. I would be trying to get *some* airflow over the drive, but I am not intending to heavily cool. A search for a real good active cooler turned up nothing As for the fan: brushless, bearing, etc. I believe brushless ar quieter, but I do not know the life expectancy as compared to a bearing.

As for airflow, RPM, and size - I agree with you. I am targeting a fan that is thin so that it can go literally be placed next to the spindle motor. This gives direct air over the drive. I figure 10mm thickness would fit nice, between the case and drive, and still have some room for circulation. The specs listed for the fan on that page seem just fine for the application.

I believe the 500 gig's drive max operating temp is 50/55 C, so the first thing to do is get some readings on how well the case disipates first. Everyone's HT environment is different, so I may be in luck. If not, well then drilling holes and popping in a fan is prolly the next step.
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post #643 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assJack1 View Post

pepar:

You have very good points. I would be trying to get *some* airflow over the drive, but I am not intending to heavily cool. A search for a real good active cooler turned up nothing As for the fan: brushless, bearing, etc. I believe brushless ar quieter, but I do not know the life expectancy as compared to a bearing.

As for airflow, RPM, and size - I agree with you. I am targeting a fan that is thin so that it can go literally be placed next to the spindle motor. This gives direct air over the drive. I figure 10mm thickness would fit nice, between the case and drive, and still have some room for circulation. The specs listed for the fan on that page seem just fine for the application.

I believe the 500 gig's drive max operating temp is 50/55 C, so the first thing to do is get some readings on how well the case disipates first. Everyone's HT environment is different, so I may be in luck. If not, well then drilling holes and popping in a fan is prolly the next step.

You seem to have given this some a fair amount of thought. Cool!
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post #644 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 08:15 AM
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Hi,

Sorry I haven't seen your questions earlier. For some reason I have not been notified that there are updates to this thread so I didn't check it back until I got a notification this morning.

First-- the coodrive enclosure feels fairly warm to touch but the case is aluminum and I believe its acting as an effective heat sink drawing the heat away from the drive and dissipating it. However someone would have to attach a temp sensor to the drive itself and measure it-- I don't have a way to do that. If you look at the specs for the drive:

http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/CE3F5756C827F35A86256F4F006B8AD4/$file/7K500v1.0.pdf

the operating ambiant temperature max is 55 deg. C. Perhaps someone could measure the case temp.

I also tend to figure how often I'm going to upgrade. I like to keep my hard drives no more than 3-4 years. Technology advances enough that by then there will be multi-terabyte units. So the question is that if it runs hotter will the life be reduced probably but should I still have 3-4 years of use-- most likely.

Second-- the lights glow a brighter green. If this is a problem, I think its pretty easy to cut the wire inside to them and they just wont glow. Its basically a fancy on/off light as they don't blink or anything like that.

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post #645 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 08:33 AM
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From a time warner rep about adding on external HD's (at least in Austin, but I'm sure the code is the same around the country):

Quote:



With the SATA connection, it is active but not supported by us right now.
There is a key GUI piece missing to make it user friendly. If the drive
loses power, the main drive in the box considers that hard drive dead and
reformats and places all of the file allocation on the main drive. On the
occasions where it does not.one issue is that when they are both running, it
does not write to one and then another. It spans both drives. So if either
fail, all recordings are then dead. We are awaiting more from SA on this.


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post #646 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAlletto View Post

From a time warner rep about adding on external HD's (at least in Austin, but I'm sure the code is the same around the country):

It's nice to hear that some TW people actually know something about the external drive. This rep may be right about the interface not being "user friendly", but in my experience, he got some of the specifics WRONG:

1)
Quote:


If the drive loses power, the main drive in the box considers that hard drive dead and reformats and places all of the file allocation on the main drive.

It does allocate new files to the main drive (nothing wrong with that) but does no reformat anything (either main drive or the, now dead, external drive).

2)
Quote:


one issue is that when they are both running, it does not write to one and then another. It spans both drives.

It NEVER spans a recording to both drives. It does run into a problem when the drive it is writing to max's out - so you can have problems above 95% (not a good idea anyway).

3) (Really 2b)
Quote:


So if either fail, all recordings are then dead.

No, if external drive fails, the recordings on it are dead. The statement is true for the main drive - which contains the directory.

If the external hard drive is powered down for a while and then powered back up - everything will be OK (of course, after rebooting the 8300).

Yeh, the messages one can get are a little alarming (not consumer friendly) and it would be nice if you didn't have to follow the specific boot-up sequence. So it is not exactly user friendly. But, as most of us know, it is a great boon to our HD viewing as it is.

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post #647 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 09:51 AM
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Quote:


It NEVER spans a recording to both drives. It does run into a problem when the drive it is writing to max's out - so you can have problems above 95% (not a good idea anyway).

How do you know that it never spans? There is no way to view the directory structure and unless you are relying on the little light on your external drive blinking (which isn't a very good indicator) you have no way to know that it doesn't span.

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post #648 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 10:13 AM
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re: J08M300 QUICKVIEW EXPANDER 300GB 7200RPM SATA 150 16MB
I know my above post is rather long but I wanted to provide as much detail as possible. Does anyone have a comment or suggestion re; the possible problem?
Thanks Very Much
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post #649 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 10:15 AM
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Mike,

First, the SA documentation explains how it allocates. Further, I have had some issues with an intermittant power connection to my external hard drive, and the behavior I observed confirms that. (After all, I said "in my experience"). If anyone KNOWS different, we all would like to hear it (that's what these forums are for).

Here is a link to the SA documentation:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/Exp...ed/4003986.pdf
Pg 17 of the document (page 23 of the PDF) explains the process and clearly states:
Quote:


A recording is not split between an internal and external hard drive.


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post #650 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 10:30 AM
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Cool, thanks for the link Dave!

Maybe thats the problem. Its not supposed to span but it actually does. I get my external drive friday so I'm eager to get it going.

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post #651 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 11:51 AM
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I would say its highly unlikely that it would span which would require a RAID 0 or other spanning raid level. Spanning would then only utilize the maximum size of the SMALLEST drive-- which would be the internal one. They would have been idiots to implement RAID 0 on the eSATA port. Other raid levels require more than 2 drives to handle parity and mirroring.

One other thing-- they would not have gone an invented their own new type of spanning beyond the existing RAID levels. So I think it was just bad information that someone is passing on from the cable company.
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post #652 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 12:03 PM
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Come on, folks, the 8300HD's firmware knows there are two different drives; it enumerates them in DIAG with individual details for each, including usage statistics. This is a very basic piece of gear and it is HIGHLY unlikely that that it doesn't just use them both like our computers use two separate drives, and allocate drive space according to its own algorithms.
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post #653 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 01:05 PM
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There is spanning, as in writing to both drives at the same time which yeah, I agree it probably doesn't do. But what is to stop it from writing to one drive, then when it hits a certain limit it closes the file and starts a new file on a different drive. It then links the 2 recordings as one recording in the catalog so when you play it plays from one file then the other. If the 2nd drive goes down the entire recording would be bad because it would still think it was there. The only reason I could see to do this was to level out the disk usage across both drives. I don't think this is a completely bad theory and it is probably what is meant by spanning in this case.

Doesn't mean its the best solution but this is SA we are talking about.

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post #654 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 01:10 PM
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I heard that whichever drive has the most space gets the new file. And if neither drive has enough space for the ENTIRE file, the file does not get written. Don't remember if it moves from main to a just-added-and-empty external drive to balance the load.
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post #655 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 01:54 PM
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I found this case - enter CA-SNST2316SATA in "search" (can't get the link to work directly) on an Aussie site and this one from a U.S. site that meet my criteria -

1. Active cooling
2. Aluminum construction
3. Stylish

. . . to be continued . . .
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post #656 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 02:19 PM
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pepar,

The fan in that 2nd link certainly looks like it violated your earlier rule of a big, slow fan. The fan in the case on the Aussie site certainly looks more like it. In fact, that unit looks identical to one listed early in this thread (it does pay to read way back ).

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=0#DetailSpecs

I've put together a unit for a customer of mine in Buffalo last spring that used this case. It is definately one that I would recommend (and the one I would get for myself if I felt my drive was running warm).

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post #657 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

pepar,

The fan in that 2nd link certainly looks like it violated your earlier rule of a big, slow fan. The fan in the case on the Aussie site certainly looks more like it. In fact, that unit looks identical to one listed early in this thread (it does pay to read way back ).

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=0#DetailSpecs

I've put together a unit for a customer of mine in Buffalo last spring that used this case. It is definately one that I would recommend (and the one I would get for myself if I felt my drive was running warm).

Yes, it looks identical, but "seems" to have a different mfg. I found one on eBay ($50.32 delivered) and bought it. Prices around the U.S. ranged from $39 to $59. One vendor had it for $15, but had no stock. And didn't have a clue as to when they might.

I'll post a good pic or two and maybe you can tell me if it is internally identical.
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post #658 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

pepar,

The fan in that 2nd link certainly looks like it violated your earlier rule of a big, slow fan. The fan in the case on the Aussie site certainly looks more like it. In fact, that unit looks identical to one listed early in this thread (it does pay to read way back ).

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=0#DetailSpecs

I've put together a unit for a customer of mine in Buffalo last spring that used this case. It is definately one that I would recommend (and the one I would get for myself if I felt my drive was running warm).

A big 10-4 on the small, angry fan, davehancock! That feature along with the huge and very well integrated fan on the other were the main deciding factors.
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post #659 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I found this case - enter CA-SNST2316SATA in "search" (can't get the link to work directly) on an Aussie site and this one from a U.S. site that meet my criteria -

1. Active cooling
2. Aluminum construction
3. Stylish

. . . to be continued . . .


This has transfers of 150 Mb/s, don't we need/want one that can handle 300mb/s?
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post #660 of 9021 Old 09-21-2005, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

pepar,

The fan in that 2nd link certainly looks like it violated your earlier rule of a big, slow fan. The fan in the case on the Aussie site certainly looks more like it. In fact, that unit looks identical to one listed early in this thread (it does pay to read way back ).

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=0#DetailSpecs

I've put together a unit for a customer of mine in Buffalo last spring that used this case. It is definately one that I would recommend (and the one I would get for myself if I felt my drive was running warm).

Dave

Did that link require additional purchase of power supply? As you know I already have the eSATA. Have a power supply from my Addonics who are shipping me a 2nd replacement for the fan/cradle, but do not have my hopes up for success.
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