Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 262 - AVS Forum
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post #7831 of 29252 Old 11-29-2006, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cxgy View Post

I too doubt I'll get anything from ATSC stations. If I get nothing it won't prove a thing. If I do get something (again very doubtful) - then that would prove ATSC compatibility and also that the local PBS is also sending TVGOS via ATSC. Never know for sure unless you try. Will post the result tomorrow.

I still have serious doubts...

I am guessing that it is safe to say that there are no stations putting the TVGOS data in their ATSC broadcast. The equipment that they use for inserting the data in the analog broadcasts would likely need to be upgraded (either hardware or software) to handle ATSC data. I haven't seen one of these devices, but from what I hear - it is basically a headless computer (with no monitor).

The fact that some people see 0:59-0 as their host channel doesn't make any sense either. I would assume that it should read either 59-1 or 59-2 if it really was the host. I think these numbers are a glitch or there is some strange mapping going on in their channel editor.
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post #7832 of 29252 Old 11-29-2006, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by plasmalover View Post

I did a reset to factory last night and ran everything thru the setup again without the cable card, scan antenna and cable channels, found all the channels, got my clock but still no guide data. I check the host channel and it says 1-28, which is the cable channel PBS here for LA area. how come it didn't use the antenna channel 28 like it was before I had cable tv? I want the sony to use antenna channel 28 to receive the guide. Is that even possible?

My two recorders are connected to both cable and ota, and get guide data from channel 28 ota. If it is receiving guide data on cable, it must be on the cable channel for channel 28. My cable company, TW, carries it on channel 3 but my sets have been unable to use it. The sure way to get the guide from ota is to disconnect the cable line when the set is in standby, until the set locks on to that channel, which may take several days.

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post #7833 of 29252 Old 11-29-2006, 06:58 PM
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I'd sure like to know if anyone here get there tv guide listings over a digital channel too, but I seriously doubt it.

When I spoke to TV Guide on the phone to ask what host station for my area is broadcasting the tv guide signal, he told me that it was my local PBS station Ch 17, he also said that it is only through this analog ch that the tv guide signal can be picked up. He told me that it won't work through a digital (qam) ch. That is when I told him that Comcast tech guy came to my house to replace my cablecard (which really didn't need to be replaced in the first place) but the Comcast guy said that in my area they are converting the "signal" on all the analog stations to a digital signal (for customers that have digital cable) that is me. Comcast told me they started doing it about 2/3 weeks before they came to replace my cablecard and I knew then that this was around the exact time that I lost my guide data.

So now I have had to use OTA and cable scan to pick back up the analog signal for my Ch17, since then I have had new guide data each day. It's been a huge headache through all this but at least I know what is going on now. I assume there will be more and more people here as their cable co starts converting from analog to digital and cable co's DO NOT let their customer know what they are doing.

OF Course going from analog to digital is a good thing, better picture is readily apparent just why do they have to mess with the "host channel".
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post #7834 of 29252 Old 11-29-2006, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theratpatrol View Post

VCR? Whats a VCR?

It was a Sony device that was used to record ota and cable channels. While it was technologically superior than competitive devices, it was priced higher than the market would support. This resulted in an early demise of the device.

Sounds eerily similar to the fate of our precious DHGs.....
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post #7835 of 29252 Old 11-29-2006, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiff72 View Post

The fact that some people see 0:59-0 as their host channel doesn't make any sense either. I would assume that it should read either 59-1 or 59-2 if it really was the host.

The transport stream of channel 59 may contain TVGOS packets, but I don't see any reason why those packets would need to be associated with a particular subchannel. Hypothetically, the transport stream may contain TVGOS packets even if there were no subchannels.
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post #7836 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 04:50 AM
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VCR? Whats a VCR?

An ancient device from the last millennium used to keep track of historical events, or at least someone's idea of history (just like parchment, quill pens and monks, but with moving pictures and real sound).

Although if you flip through the pages quickly in the ancient texts from two millennium ago (after they switched from rolls to books) you can see movement in the pictures. This technique with plastic film rolls and chemical emulsions was used to project pictures with a light bulb and lenses in the last millennium as well.

The ability to see moving pictures probably was the primary motivation for the invention of the bound book versus the use of scrolls (film movies were a throwback made possible by the invention of the wheel). Audio came much later, little symbols used to represent sounds were used instead.
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post #7837 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 05:11 AM
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As suspected, changing the channel numbers in the TVGOS Channel List to their digital versions (ATSC for Air and QAM for Cable) resulted in no update last night.
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post #7838 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by theratpatrol View Post

VCR? Whats a VCR?

A VCR uses removable media (cassette tape) for recording/playback, whereas the Sony DVR uses non-removable media (internal hard drive). Some VCR models (W-VHS and D-VHS) can even support HDTV.
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post #7839 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofHD View Post

the Comcast guy said that in my area they are converting the "signal" on all the analog stations to a digital signal (for customers that have digital cable) that is me.

That's called ADS. But it's for all customers. There is only one stream on the cable wire. For example, CNN might be on ch35 (analog) and ch110-1 (digital). Depending on your tuner, you can receive it on ch35 (analog), ch35 (digital) or ch110-1 (digital)

When Comcast sells you "digital cable", that just means you get a different box than your neighbor on "analog cable". Both analog and digital signals are on the wire.
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post #7840 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by grittree View Post

That's called ADS. But it's for all customers. There is only one stream on the cable wire. For example, CNN might be on ch35 (analog) and ch110-1 (digital). Depending on your tuner, you can receive it on ch35 (analog), ch35 (digital) or ch110-1 (digital)

When Comcast sells you "digital cable", that just means you get a different box than your neighbor on "analog cable". Both analog and digital signals are on the wire.

So someone with an older analog "cable ready" TV wouldn't be able to use it without a cable box??
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post #7841 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cxgy View Post

The host channel in the 753159852 service menu is NOT necessarily your actual host channel. It is the host channel found by the unit during your last zip code setup. In my case 1:0-13 (Cable 13).

If you change the channel allocated to that station in the TVGOS Channel List, it will change your actual host station & channel - BUT the host channel in the service menu WILL NOT CHANGE..and the host station in the TVGOS Channel List will not change.

In my case, if I change "CFTO Cable" from 13 to 35 - it will start to use Cable 35 as a host channel (WNED) even though the service menu still has 1:0-13 ... NOT 1:0-35. The unit remembers that CFTO is the host station (thus the "Host ID" line in the service menu)..not that Cable 13 is the host channel. The unit searches both CFTO Cable and CFTO Air for valid TVGOS data on the channels that YOU happen to assign to those stations. If I could pick up KXYZ Anchorage on channel 69 and put 69 for my CFTO Air channel, I would get TVGOS data from Anchorage. The service menu host channel would still read 1:0-13.

If someone wants to check out if the unit will decode ATSC TVGOS... then try setting the Cable version of your host station in the TVGOS Channel List to a non-sensical channel..and set your Air version to an over-the-air ATSC version of your host station. I haven't tried this yet but will try tonight with CFTO-DT 9.1 (PTC 40) Toronto or WNED-DT 43.1 Buffalo (PTC 43). (Of course you need an antenna hooked up and have a good signal). Could also try this with QAM on Cable to see if QAM carries useful TVGOS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pyedog View Post

Just because a station carries TVGOS on it's analog channel doesn't mean it carries TVGOS on it's ATSC feed (my local PBS is one example). The only way to test if the Sony can use an ATSC feed is to have someone prove that the ATSC channel contains TVGOS info.

Has anyone ever proven that *any* ATSC channel currently carries TVGOS info?


I use only OTA.

As I mentioned in my just previous post, after disconnecting power to install a UPS, the behavior of the DVR went back to "normal" -- both clock channels were 0:0-28, VBI was passing on chan 28 (this is KCET PBS in Los Angeles). Overnight TVGOS downloaded.

So after reading the above posts, I changed the channel number for KCET 28 to 28-2, then disconnected, and reconnected, line power. The values for Failing Clock Chan and the Clock Set Chan were both still 0:0-28. I had wanted to do this all along because 28-2 is not in the channel listings, and 28 and 28-2 have the same programming, one analog, one digital (28-1 has its own listing and usually different programming).

Overnight the TVGOS was successful. The eighth day, next thursday, is there. The clock values in the service/diagnostics menu are: Failing Clock Chan is still 0:0-28 , and the Clock Set Chan is 0:28-2.

So is this "proof"? The host channel is still 0:0-28.
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post #7842 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiff72 View Post

So someone with an older analog "cable ready" TV wouldn't be able to use it without a cable box??

Analog is still there. The vast majority of users have only analog equipment.
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post #7843 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 12:31 PM
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Update on hard drive experiments:

These DVRs do not boot from the hard drive. They boot from a 32 MB DiskOnChip flash drive on the mainboard. Changing the firmware image stored on disk does not result in the DVR running that firmware unless you instruct the DVR to rewrite the flash from disk. This can be done through the front panel service menu. I've updated my unit from 1.02.05 to 1.2.13 this way. For most people, upgrading using a USB thumb drive will be much easier, but I could never get this to work in firmware 1.02.05.

The DVR will halt the boot process with an error code if a cloned hard drive (same make and model, bit-for-bit the same image) is connected in place of the original or added as a second drive. Until we can learn how to bless hard drives, replacing or upgrading disks is not possible without sending the DVR to Pittsburgh. I don't have any intention of pulling video content off the disks, but I can tell you that it appears to be stored in an encrypted xfs partition. My focus is on being able to expand the capacity of my DVR and replace drives when they inevitably fail.

The DVR will start up and work just fine as a tuner if no hard drive is connected, after displaying an error suggesting that you contact Sony for service.

Some of the parts used on the mainboard were end-of-lifed in early 2005. This may have been a factor in Sony's decision to discontinue production (though generally only software changes would have been required to integrate the replacements.)
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post #7844 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 12:52 PM
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So after doing a full reset to factory and dislodging the Cablce card when I did auto setup, it scanned both Antenna and Cable for Analog and digital channels, found them all and preceeded to receive guide data.

Lo and Behold, the next day, I get guide data and the host channel is 1:0-28, which is the cable channle PBS here in LA. I inserted the Cable card and now its onto the guide will update in 24 hours and no host channel. I will check tonight to see if any guide data shows up.

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post #7845 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fontana View Post

Update on hard drive experiments:

These DVRs do not boot from the hard drive. They boot from a 32 MB DiskOnChip flash drive on the mainboard. Changing the firmware image stored on disk does not result in the DVR running that firmware unless you instruct the DVR to rewrite the flash from disk. This can be done through the front panel service menu. I've updated my unit from 1.02.05 to 1.2.13 this way. For most people, upgrading using a USB thumb drive will be much easier, but I could never get this to work in firmware 1.02.05.

Mark - Thanks for all of your efforts in this area. Makes sense that we would want to be able to replace the HDDs when they (ultimately) fail.

I don't understand how you did the firmware update to .13. Do you mean to say that the .13 firmware is already located on the disk of our DVRs and it just requires a service menu update to "activate" it? I have 3 of these (1 500, 2 250s) with FWs .05 and .06.
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post #7846 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 01:31 PM
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In response to a support request, one of my coworkers received a USB thumb drive from Sony containing the files for 1.2.13. His unit successfully updated from that thumb drive (just insert the drive while the unit is turned on and idle), but mine would not. We did take the thumb drive to Sears and successfully updated their DHG-HDD250s for them, so the files don't seem to be tied to a particular serial number. That leads me to believe that version 1.2.05 can't be updated via USB but later versions can.
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post #7847 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fontana View Post

In response to a support request, one of my coworkers received a USB thumb drive from Sony containing the files for 1.2.13. His unit successfully updated from that thumb drive (just insert the drive while the unit is turned on and idle), but mine would not. We did take the thumb drive to Sears and successfully updated their DHG-HDD250s for them, so the files don't seem to be tied to a particular serial number. That leads me to believe that version 1.2.05 can't be updated via USB but later versions can.

OK, so you had to insert the thumb drive in your machine and then do the front panel routine as a second step?
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post #7848 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 01:49 PM
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What are the "fixes" for the newer firmware? Is there a place to see the list?

Is there a place to put an image of the thumbdrive so that others may update their firmware (at their own risk, of course)

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #7849 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 01:53 PM
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No, I had to manually place the .13 files on the hard drive using a separate PC running Linux. The front panel Clear NVM procedure appears to make the DVR want to reflash itself on next startup, causing it to read the new firmware files, verify the digital signature and write them to flash memory. But there is some detail I missed, because after updating, although 1.2.13 is displayed on the front panel at startup, it ISN'T correctly displayed in the onscreen UI (the numbers there are garbage). For that reason, I wouldn't recommend that anyone else try this approach just yet. Other than that, the DVR seems to be functioning OK after the update.
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post #7850 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theratpatrol View Post

VCR? Whats a VCR?

A VCR is a device with ease-of-use and reliability that has not yet been equaled by manufacturers of DVD recorders and HDD-DVD recorders.

I wish it were otherwise. One day it will be, I'm confident.
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post #7851 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmalover View Post

So after doing a full reset to factory and dislodging the Cablce card when I did auto setup, it scanned both Antenna and Cable for Analog and digital channels, found them all and preceeded to receive guide data.

Lo and Behold, the next day, I get guide data and the host channel is 1:0-28, which is the cable channle PBS here in LA. I inserted the Cable card and now its onto the guide will update in 24 hours and no host channel. I will check tonight to see if any guide data shows up.


Keep us updated I'd like to see what happens to your host once you inserted the cablecard.

I did the same as you, after I re-inserted the cablecard after scanning both OTA and cable, my host is showing 0:0-17 (OTA analog PBS Ch 17). This seems to be the only way I am going to get guide data. It seems that when I insert the cablecard and don't use OTA scan the DVR cannot find a host on the cablecard because everything on the cablecard is provisioned for digital.

Everynight I come home from work I go into the guide and check to see if I am getting guide data for the next day and all seems to be working great, in fact 2 more days and I will have full complete listings all across the board.
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post #7852 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofHD View Post

I did the same as you, after I re-inserted the cablecard after scanning both OTA and cable, my host is showing 0:0-17 (OTA analog PBS Ch 17). This seems to be the only way I am going to get guide data. It seems that when I insert the cablecard and don't use OTA scan the DVR cannot find a host on the cablecard because everything on the cablecard is provisioned for digital.

Glad it's finally working for you.

But why don't you get what so many people have been trying to tell you? Comcast has a mandate to furnish a single analog channel for the sole purpose of allowing you to receive TVGOS guide data when they switch you to ADS. They have written agreements with TVGOS. If you are not getting that analog cable channel, then Comcast is screwing you. Someone in your area or at your particular cable headend is not doing his job.

Phil
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post #7853 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by FanofHD View Post

Keep us updated I'd like to see what happens to your host once you inserted the cablecard.

I finally received guide data today when I came back home and checked the sony 500. Checked the host channel and it is showing 1:0-28 which is the cable analog PBS, it didn't seem to take the antenna PBS, but I don't care, I'm just happy to get guide data! I will continue to monitor the guide data.

However, it does not get guide data for all the channels, i.e. HBOHD and INHD2 does not show up in the guide, though I can tune it to it perfectly, is anyone else having this issue?

Also, I want to thank everyone on this forum for the help, the information here is priceless.

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post #7854 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyC View Post

Glad it's finally working for you.

But why don't you get what so many people have been trying to tell you? Comcast has a mandate to furnish a single analog channel for the sole purpose of allowing you to receive TVGOS guide data when they switch you to ADS. They have written agreements with TVGOS. If you are not getting that analog cable channel, then Comcast is screwing you. Someone in your area or at your particular cable headend is not doing his job.


Yes, Phil, trust me I totally understand what you and others here have been telling me all along. I get it. The problem is trying to get Comcast to "get it" I can't tell you how many hours of my time I have spent trying to "get them" to "get it" Yes I've even gone to supervisors and they all tell me the same thing, if you have a cablecard then you can't get the tv guide. Well then why did I have it for 9 months and then all of a sudden I stopped getting it, they said and I quote well..consider your lucky that you had it" At that point I just gave up, I'm sorry.

I'm not going to go on and on cause I've writing about it enough here but my time is too important to me to waste on people that either don't understand or can't get me in contact with someone who does understand. They only real help I got was from the TV Guide toll free # and of course you kind folks here.
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post #7855 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmalover View Post

I finally received guide data today when I came back home and checked the sony 500. Checked the host channel and it is showing 1:0-28 which is the cable analog PBS, it didn't seem to take the antenna PBS, but I don't care, I'm just happy to get guide data! I will continue to monitor the guide data.

However, it does not get guide data for all the channels, i.e. HBOHD and INHD2 does not show up in the guide, though I can tune it to it perfectly, is anyone else having this issue?

Also, I want to thank everyone on this forum for the help, the information here is priceless.


Great to hear, give it some more time cause I didn't have data the first day or two for some channels too like HBO and Starz and INHD 1.

Well if your host is showing cable PBS that would make sense if that station is an analog station. You can check the Diagonstics screen for that cable channel and see if it is a analog channel or a digital one.

For me, my problem is with my cablecard my host channel signal is being converted by Comcast from analog to ditigal so with a cablecard I will never get guide data because the Sony won't find my host because of the signal conversion. I'm just glad OTA is working for me, it took me awhile to figure out how to do it and set up the DVR for OTA since I never had to do it that way before.
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post #7856 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 07:56 PM
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Mark:

Interesting:

Someone here appears to have had success replacing the hard drive
on an RDR-HX900.
Replace Hard disk in RDR-HX900

Granted, it is a combo DVD/HDD unit, but still, it makes me think that
you will eventually have success.



Shplad


Quote:
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Update on hard drive experiments:
Until we can learn how to bless hard drives, replacing or upgrading disks is not possible without sending the DVR to Pittsburgh.

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post #7857 of 29252 Old 11-30-2006, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmalover View Post

I finally received guide data today when I came back home and checked the sony 500. Checked the host channel and it is showing 1:0-28 which is the cable analog PBS, it didn't seem to take the antenna PBS, but I don't care, I'm just happy to get guide data! I will continue to monitor the guide data.

However, it does not get guide data for all the channels, i.e. HBOHD and INHD2 does not show up in the guide, though I can tune it to it perfectly, is anyone else having this issue?

Also, I want to thank everyone on this forum for the help, the information here is priceless.

Sounds like it's working the way it's supposed to. From my experience if you tell it you have cable, it'll default to using the cable feed for the host channel.

As far as not seeing HBOHD, etc in the listings, have you gone into TV Guide->Setup->Channel display and turned them on? I know I had to activate a bunch of channels since they were by default "off."


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post #7858 of 29252 Old 12-01-2006, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

Is there a place to put an image of the thumbdrive so that others may update their firmware (at their own risk, of course)

I too would be very interested in (and very much appreciate) a downloadable image so that I can upgrade my 1.2.06 machine.
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post #7859 of 29252 Old 12-01-2006, 07:29 AM
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I also do not get any encrypted HD channels I pay for in the TVguide, HBOHD, DiscHD, TNTHD, UnivHD. They are turned on and tunable and recordable. I can not reassign the SD channel guide listings to the HD channels because they are numbered above 1500 (4 digits!!). It's too bad, all these HD recordings are titled UNKNOWN.

Also, my cableco is coming out for the 4th time to try to get my other cablecarded HDD500 to tune into these encrypted HD channels. It was working for a while and then these channels would freeze when I tuned into them. Now it is just blank. They put in another cablecard, exactly the same. It's a firmware .13 and has never had any onscreen error prompts, and works fine otherwise with the other cablecard tuned digital channels. hmm.

I have a 3rd HDD500 I may try and get them to set up and see if it is my machine.
Otherwise, I unfortunately will have to give up on cablecard in at least one of my machines.
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post #7860 of 29252 Old 12-01-2006, 09:34 AM
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My wife recorded Criminal Minds this week and noticed something interesting: the advance and replay functions were disabled. Pressing either of them caused the show to start playing from the very beginning again. Fast-forward and rewind did work. Haven't seen this problem on any other shows so far.
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