Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 286 - AVS Forum
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post #8551 of 29312 Old 02-13-2007, 11:58 AM
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Sony did dump these, or discontinued them early in their life cycle. I think also they were too much, too early, too pricey. Now that more Mom and Pop's have HDTV there is more demand for the HDDs. I've seen the prices rise a lot on ebay for the hard to get 500s. THey are going for $650 to $800. 6 months ago you could pick em off ebay for $450 or so. THe Sony Outlet near me was selling them months ago for very good prices, but haven;t had them for a while.
THere are lots of 250s on ebay from 1 or 2 sellers. My guess are these are the instore demos CC is using in stores to show off HDTV that they will not sell.
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post #8552 of 29312 Old 02-13-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrach View Post

This isn't just a sony problem. There are easily hundreds of thousands of devices out there from TV's to analog DVRs that use the Tvgos system, not to mention all the other information transmitted in the VBI, like closed captioning and time stamping. The quick and easy fix are the D/A converter boxes mandated to be ready by 2009 and Gemstar is lobbying heavily to have the capability to insert data extracted from the digital stream back into the analog output designed into these devices. Time will tell.

The problem specific to Sony is the (apparent) lack of manual clock set. Which is all I was refering to. I'm not all that worried about the lack of TVGOS, and of course there is nothing practical Sony can really do about that issue.

As far as the data extracted and modulated, I'll believe that if I ever see it. Doesn't seem like much practical application for consumers. I don't see most hooking an (additional) mandated D/A converter box to the legacy HDTV, for the sole purpose of tuning a single host channel, and modulating VBI data. Such consumers would likely get all the guide, closed caption, and the like directly from the converter box they are viewing live.

The only application I really envision for that scheme might be CATV/MATV demod, where you are already modulating the single analog channel. So reinserting the VBI data may be practical. But TVGOS would probably have to pay a cableco to do that since they'd likely consider it aiding and abetting competition to their own guide, DVR rental, and such.

I'd sure love to see any of this, but I'm not holding my breath.
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post #8553 of 29312 Old 02-13-2007, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenL View Post

The problem specific to Sony is the (apparent) lack of manual clock set. Which is all I was refering to. I'm not all that worried about the lack of TVGOS, and of course there is nothing practical Sony can really do about that issue.

As far as the data extracted and modulated, I'll believe that if I ever see it. Doesn't seem like much practical application for consumers. I don't see most hooking an (additional) mandated D/A converter box to the legacy HDTV, for the sole purpose of tuning a single host channel, and modulating VBI data. Such consumers would likely get all the guide, closed caption, and the like directly from the converter box they are viewing live.

The only application I really envision for that scheme might be CATV/MATV demod, where you are already modulating the single analog channel. So reinserting the VBI data may be practical. But TVGOS would probably have to pay a cableco to do that since they'd likely consider it aiding and abetting competition to their own guide, DVR rental, and such.

I'd sure love to see any of this, but I'm not holding my breath.

It's not really a scheme. These boxes are actually FCC mandated and will be subsidized for the estimated 15% of US households by 2009 relying exclusively on OTA analog signals from an antenna. It's even more if you include the homes that have cable to the main set and maybe an antenna hookup to a 2nd set. The VBI data question has to be addressed for those situations. There's too many people using it (every V-Chip installed till recently relies on data in the VBI). I agree that it was short sighted of sony not to have a manual time setting capability, and I don't expect them to do anything to change that either but if I can buy a 60$ converter box that does the job, I'll throw it behind the wall unit, switch it in at night and out in the morning. I'm just glad I only pay for the equipment and not the content.
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post #8554 of 29312 Old 02-13-2007, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

You can still see them in action at the Circuit City's in my area as a demo for the Sony plasmas.

They had them on the XBR1 when I was shopping. I didn't get mine from CC but they did have me considering it.

They still have the demo of the HDD500 at the nearby Frys but still listed at $999.... I'm resisting it, but it's growing harder...

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post #8555 of 29312 Old 02-13-2007, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

They still have the demo of the HDD500 at the nearby Frys but still listed at $999.... I'm resisting it, but it's growing harder...

I would wait, the Fry's in Austin, TX is $849 for the HDD500 and $599 for the HDD250. That change occurred right after the new year.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #8556 of 29312 Old 02-13-2007, 05:50 PM
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Yeah I keep hoping I'll be able to jump on them deals. Anything under $500 for the HDD500 I would probably jump on instantly. Anything more than that merits some pondering.

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post #8557 of 29312 Old 02-13-2007, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rcrach View Post

It's not really a scheme. These boxes are actually FCC mandated and will be subsidized for the estimated 15% of US households by 2009 relying exclusively on OTA analog signals from an antenna...

The converter boxes are all but a done deal. What I'm calling a *scheme* is the pipe dream that somehow those boxes will be approved/required to convert/modulate the ATSC EPG data to VBI. Simple and inexpensive but I still fear unlikely.

No doubt I'd get one if they did. But I fail to see how it really benefits other devices, vchip, etc. When you consider everyone needing to slap the $60 box behind their HDTV, and additionally still need whatever STB they use to tune digital signals. They could use such a converter box for OTA but how would they maintain host channel data stream if it isn't dual tuner? Sure we here could work around that rather easily.

The one place it might work (out of the box) is where the cable company converts the ATSC locals to analog, for those systems keeping limited analogs available in 2009. Perhaps that's the reasoning for the submission from Gemstar-TV Guide International, Inc.

Don't get me wrong I'd sure love to see all (any) subsidized converter boxes do it.
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post #8558 of 29312 Old 02-13-2007, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

I would wait, the Fry's in Austin, TX is $849 for the HDD500 and $599 for the HDD250. That change occurred right after the new year.

I just bought the last one at Fry's in Seattle for $699 (the price tag still said $999. They are still selling the HDD250's for $599.
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post #8559 of 29312 Old 02-14-2007, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenL View Post

The one place it might work (out of the box) is where the cable company converts the ATSC locals to analog, for those systems keeping limited analogs available in 2009. Perhaps that's the reasoning for the submission from Gemstar-TV Guide International, Inc.

Ken,

I agree with you but I don't think that it will happen either. Our cable company now is only picking up the digital feed of one of the area PBS stations and for analog customers they are converting the PBS main feed to analog. Because it was ATSC there is no closed captioning or other VBI data (including clock and TVGOS) on their analog feed. I think this is what we will see in the future unless the FCC gets involved.

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post #8560 of 29312 Old 02-14-2007, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill R (# 2) View Post

Ken,

I agree with you but I don't think that it will happen either. Our cable company now is only picking up the digital feed of one of the area PBS stations and for analog customers they are converting the PBS main feed to analog. Because it was ATSC there is no closed captioning or other VBI data (including clock and TVGOS) on their analog feed. I think this is what we will see in the future unless the FCC gets involved.

My cable system was doing the same thing, but I opened a trouble ticket with Gemstar/TVGOS, and they got them to go back to the old way. (At least I like to think it was thanks to my trouble ticket)... I am able to get guide data via cable once again.
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post #8561 of 29312 Old 02-14-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill R (# 2) View Post

Ken,

I agree with you but I don't think that it will happen either. Our cable company now is only picking up the digital feed of one of the area PBS stations and for analog customers they are converting the PBS main feed to analog. Because it was ATSC there is no closed captioning or other VBI data (including clock and TVGOS) on their analog feed. I think this is what we will see in the future unless the FCC gets involved.

Question I just thought of, how does closed captioning work then, doesn't it work the same way as the VBI info, isn't it broadcasted the same way?

Thanks
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post #8562 of 29312 Old 02-14-2007, 09:24 PM
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Closed Captioning is in the analog VBI. However in ATSC it isn't necessarily linked to clock or TVGOS.

One of our local analog cable channels (not a host channel) switched from analog origin to modulation of the corresponding ATSC subchannel. In the process Closed Captioning was eliminated entirely, and is still missing to this day. I'm sure that will be the future.

What's more, not only is the source digital subchannel of such poor quality OTA it's all but unwatchable, the analog cable retransmission is even worse. Perhaps it doesn't matter if there is CC or not because even ordinary people are complaining about how nasty it looks. The prior analog feed wasn't great, but watchable.

I can imagine the FCC requiring feed through of Closed Caption data in such cases, but of course as far as the cable company is concerned today, they probably think they are simply helping to push people to digital box rental.

Even if such forwarding of ATSC Closed Captioning to analog modulation was a requirement, TVGOS would still be a separate issue. It would additionally need to be intercepted and piped through for our purposes. You can argue it's EPG data for the public, but it's also *advertising* media paid for by TVGOS so that perhaps complicates the notion of mandatory inclusion.

Of course in some cases TVGOS may be willing to pay for it as they do with host channels.
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post #8563 of 29312 Old 02-14-2007, 10:07 PM
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Someone help me out. I'm getting my first sony dvr from e-bay. I've read most of this thread, but I'm having trouble understanding why I can't watch one channel while recording another, if my tv has a hd tuner and the sony has its own tuner? Also, are the cable company dvr boxes the same way?

So what do I need to do to be able to watch one program while recording another? I've read conflicting things in this thread, do I need to get a splitter or do I need to get an A/B switch as my vizio 47" tv has only one attenna/cable input? thanks.......
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post #8564 of 29312 Old 02-14-2007, 11:25 PM
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The Sony doesn't have a coaxial output, so you need to get a splitter. It shouldn't cost more than $5 or $10. Feed one branch to your TV and the other to the Sony. Connect the Sony to the TV using either HDMI or component video (red/green/blue). Then you can watch one channel on the TV while recording another one on the Sony.
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post #8565 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 06:12 AM
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Well, went to use my DVR last night and there's no guide data. Checked the TVGOS debug menu and it showed my host channel as "fffffddddd". Did a TVGOS reset and the force host channel code and left it overnight. This morning it shows the host channel as 2. There's no guide data, but it did ask me to choose which cable company option I was using. Perhaps it will download the actual guide data tonight, but I'm not hopeful.

Oddly the cable channel 11 passes the VBI test while the OTA does not. Though that was kind of disturbing and my indicate a larger problem.
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post #8566 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jmdomini View Post

Well, went to use my DVR last night and there's no guide data. Checked the TVGOS debug menu and it showed my host channel as "fffffddddd". Did a TVGOS reset and the force host channel code and left it overnight. This morning it shows the host channel as 2. There's no guide data, but it did ask me to choose which cable company option I was using. Perhaps it will download the actual guide data tonight, but I'm not hopeful.

Oddly the cable channel 11 passes the VBI test while the OTA does not. Though that was kind of disturbing and my indicate a larger problem.

i would assume that you will get data if it asked you for your cable lineup choice.

I am not putting much trust in the VBI test anymore. I have been consistently failing the VBI test, but I am still getting guide data. I tried the test on my OTA and cable channels and both failed. I am using the cable channel as the host currently.
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post #8567 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 08:16 AM
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I Have A Dhg 500 And I Am Having A Problem With The Audio. I Have The Sony Connected Via Hdmi To My Sony Television And The Audio Does Not Seem To Work. Video Is Fine. On The Sd Channels I Get Audio But Not On The Hi Def Channels. I Had The Audio Set To Dolby Digital Auto. I Then Connected Analog Audio Cables (hdmi Still Connected) And The Audio Is Now Working On The Hi Def Channels, But I Had To Change Dolby Digital Audio Auto To Off In Order To Get The Sound With The Analog Audio Cables. I Seem To Be Missing Somethng.
Can't Make Sense Of It. Can Anyone Shed Some Light On It?

Sd Channels Get Audio With Hdmi Connection Only And, Of Course, With Both Connections.

Hd Channels Need Analog Connection And Hdmi.

Thank You.
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post #8568 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 08:17 AM
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I Did Change The Hdmi Cables Twice. Problem Still Exists.
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post #8569 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MISSY QUICK View Post

I Have A Dhg 500 And I Am Having A Problem With The Audio. I Have The Sony Connected Via Hdmi To My Sony Television And The Audio Does Not Seem To Work. Video Is Fine. On The Sd Channels I Get Audio But Not On The Hi Def Channels. I Had The Audio Set To Dolby Digital Auto. I Then Connected Analog Audio Cables (hdmi Still Connected) And The Audio Is Now Working On The Hi Def Channels, But I Had To Change Dolby Digital Audio Auto To Off In Order To Get The Sound With The Analog Audio Cables. I Seem To Be Missing Somethng.
Can't Make Sense Of It. Can Anyone Shed Some Light On It?

Sd Channels Get Audio With Hdmi Connection Only And, Of Course, With Both Connections.

Hd Channels Need Analog Connection And Hdmi.

Thank You.

Look at the diag or system screen and see if your display has authenticate. If it says "authenticating" then that could be your problem. I have had this happen to me.

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post #8570 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiff72 View Post

i would assume that you will get data if it asked you for your cable lineup choice.

I am not putting much trust in the VBI test anymore. I have been consistently failing the VBI test, but I am still getting guide data. I tried the test on my OTA and cable channels and both failed. I am using the cable channel as the host currently.

I had a strange occurence happen yesterday.

I had TWO HDD's loose guide data. My other three DID NOT.
So I jacked up the signal level on Cable Channel 97 [Comcast]
[Boston Analog version of Channel 2] .

We'll see tonight if I have guide data back.
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post #8571 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 02:20 PM
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Just saw a 250 go for $660 plus shipping on eBay....makes me feel better about $449.
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post #8572 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 02:28 PM
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Just saw a 250 go for $660 plus shipping on eBay....makes me feel better about $449.

The fact that the prices are being driven up, i hope indicates that more consumers are ready to shell out $$ for something like this instead of renting crap from their cable co's, if someone would come out with a dual tuner, cablecard, STB that had reliable guide interaction/data/scheduling with no subscription fees, i think they could do well if they could top tivo's pricing (give people the option to pay up front with no sub fees, or rent it to them with no startup costs, but none of this 800 upfront and then 15/month), and provide more than one option to get the guide data, wireless/wired ethernet, usb, POTS, VoIP, etc...
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post #8574 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 02:31 PM
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Went to Fry's in Irving this weekend, and they have both the 250 & 500 in stock. Prices were $549 & $749 respectively. (The HDD500 box still had the original $999 price tag. I paid $899 a little over 1 1/2 years ago, Oh well, it has worked perfectly for me, and considering until now Comcast did not charge me a penny for the CableCard (TWC now does charge $2.95) I have been pretty pleased. Only thing that would have made it better is for Sony to have made a dual tuner unit instead of single tuner!
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post #8575 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MISSY QUICK View Post

Hd Channels Need Analog Connection And Hdmi.

Most likely your TV doesn't support Dolby Digital audio input over HDMI. But if you set the Dolby Digital preferences option to Off, you should be able to get 2-channel audio over HDMI without requiring separate audio cables. Have you tried that?
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post #8576 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 02:49 PM
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All of a sudden last night I started getting ads on my TVGOS, after having the units for a year and a half this is the first time I've seen any ad on the service...

I actually kind of like it, I mean its not taking up any more space on the screen and its more intresting to look at than that crappy tv guide splash screen ad. Plus I never did understand who was paying for the service I was recieving, at least now I feel like maybe theres some incentive to gemstar to actually support any problems that I might have in the future... (if I can ever find out who to talk to)

Of course i have no intrest in any timeshares...

Have other people been seeing ads all along or is this a new thing?
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post #8577 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 03:02 PM
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pedrojunkie,

Where are you located?

timmer

OTA ONLY
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post #8578 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 03:20 PM
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Quote:

there's about a billion ways to record OTA for cheap, my tv has a built in digital tuner, and i picked up a 160gig firewire HD (this is my OTA solution), but there are about 10-20 or so HD channels offered via cable, that i'm sure a lot of people are interested in (especially ESPN,ESPN2 during college football season for me),
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post #8579 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 03:34 PM
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60 and 80gb for $600 and $800??, clunky cableboxes have bigger hard drives.
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post #8580 of 29312 Old 02-15-2007, 03:55 PM
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60 and 80gb for $600 and $800??, clunky cableboxes have bigger hard drives.

point is you can add as many hard drives internal and external as you want, back them up etc.
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