Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 320 - AVS Forum
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post #9571 of 29253 Old 04-27-2007, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philda View Post

Yes, I have. I've tried that after every scan, just in case. But no luck; it just says tuning in progress--no signal. But when I switch to my HDTV's tuner, the channel comes in just fine, and with a good signal strength. Very frustrating.

But here is another, perhaps related, question: my TV Guide shows all the HD Stations, as well as cable stations, that I receive. But it does NOT show the NBC digital OTA station in the lineup--the very one that the Sony cannot store during channel scans. Is the TV Guide somehow tied to the channel list? If not, maybe the station is doing something wrong with their broadcasting?

Sound like some weird stuff, try this: Lets say the channel your are not geting is 13-1 and it is on RF 32. Try puncing in these numbers:

13-0 - you should get that, it's analogue
13-1 - so far your saying your not getting it, but your TV set is?
32 - If that is the RF number that might work?

Still no go? Then turn the TV and Sony Box off....switch the antenna fed between them........sounds stupid; but you never know. Start over again with the test. Does it work now?

In otherwords is there some sort of splitter, or something killing that specific RF to the Sony Box?
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post #9572 of 29253 Old 04-27-2007, 02:48 PM
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I have not called Gemstar in regard to the open ticket............only two engineers there. But I will call if it breaks again.....They have always been real genuine and interested in their job, and it sounds like they are busy a 125% of the time. Besides I think they read this a couple of times a year anyway?
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post #9573 of 29253 Old 04-27-2007, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Short answer, no it does not.

All long as Day 8 is 100% perfect, then the 1,2,3 should work fine (even if days 1-7 still have corrupted data cells). Check serveral cells out in Day 8.

hmmm...bad news. I locked up today while recording with the unit on...frozen clock and all that. It unlocked when the recording finished. One thing to note: I have a DVI switch to switch between the Sony and a Samsung HD receiver. It locked when I was switching to the Sony. Note however that I used that switch without any problems for a year until this Gemstar crap started. The switch may have just been a conicidence. Once it's locked I get no video at all using the switch, but that's because it's unable to sync the digital output as it needs to when connecting.

I've looked, I have no bad guide data...and as I've said before I'm 99% positive I never have, at least nothing I could see. I looked at that two hour greys anatomy and the guide's perfect.

I certainly won't be calling Gemstar to say things are ok .

Tom
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post #9574 of 29253 Old 04-27-2007, 08:14 PM
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My unit is working ok,I just hear a slight clicking sound. Normal or failing HD?
Any thoughts?

fox
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post #9575 of 29253 Old 04-27-2007, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tld View Post

hmmm...bad news. I locked up today while recording with the unit on...frozen clock and all that. It unlocked when the recording finished. One thing to note: I have a DVI switch to switch between the Sony and a Samsung HD receiver. It locked when I was switching to the Sony. Note however that I used that switch without any problems for a year until this Gemstar crap started. The switch may have just been a conicidence. Once it's locked I get no video at all using the switch, but that's because it's unable to sync the digital output as it needs to when connecting.

I've looked, I have no bad guide data...and as I've said before I'm 99% positive I never have, at least nothing I could see. I looked at that two hour greys anatomy and the guide's perfect.

I certainly won't be calling Gemstar to say things are ok .

Tom

Have you tried the Factory restore under the 9012 menu yet? It fixed the locking
problems for both of my units. It's a pain for sure, but it fixes the problem, and the guide populates fully in 3 days. The worst of course is reordering the channels in the TVG channel list especially if you have 550+
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post #9576 of 29253 Old 04-27-2007, 09:35 PM
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I have a questen. the Factory restore under the 9012 menu yet? It fixed the locking
problems for both of my units. It's a pain for sure, but it fixes the problem, and the guide populates fully in 3 days. The worst of course is reordering the channels in the TVG channel list especially if you have 550+
My concern is that it wiil wipe the drive, whicvh is at 70% full. I'd ratherr try it later when I have cleared the programing.
My other concern is if it works won't we be screwed by Gmster again in the Fall becasue the end of daylight savings time comes a week late.
How do I access 9012 menu.
Thanks
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post #9577 of 29253 Old 04-27-2007, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrwine3 View Post

philda,

When you are manually tuning the channel in question, are you trying to tune the same channel number your Sony TV uses (the PSIP remapped channel number) or the actual channel the digital signal is being broadcast upon?

For example, my local NBC station is WTHR channel 13. Their digital channel is 13-1 which is broadcast on UHF 46. The PSIP information remaps the station on my tv and my dvr to 13-1. It is possible the PSIP information for your local NBC station is not working correctly and the dvr may not know what to do with it.

Find out what digital channel your local station uses and try manually tuning that channel.

You know, I thought about this a couple of days ago but didn't think it would work, since my HDTV tuner successfully remapped the channel to the correct digital station (4.1) perfectly, so I figured the PSIP info was OK.

Well, Cha--CHING! That worked! I used antennaweb to find out what the UHF channel was (26). I tried directly tuning to 26, but that just gave me my cable channel 26. However, there was 26.3 just sitting there in the channel +- list, and I tried it and that was the correct channel.

Now lets see if the TVGuide will pick it up tomorrow, or I guess otherwise I'll have to manually program recordings on that channel....

Thanks so much, wrwine3!
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post #9578 of 29253 Old 04-27-2007, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Sound like some weird stuff, try this: Lets say the channel your are not geting is 13-1 and it is on RF 32. Try puncing in these numbers:

13-0 - you should get that, it's analogue
13-1 - so far your saying your not getting it, but your TV set is?
32 - If that is the RF number that might work?

Still no go? Then turn the TV and Sony Box off....switch the antenna fed between them........sounds stupid; but you never know. Start over again with the test. Does it work now?

In otherwords is there some sort of splitter, or something killing that specific RF to the Sony Box?

Thanks, HoustonPerson. See my last post. Your suggestion worked!
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post #9579 of 29253 Old 04-28-2007, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hednic View Post

Have you tried the Factory restore under the 9012 menu yet? It fixed the locking
problems for both of my units. It's a pain for sure, but it fixes the problem, and the guide populates fully in 3 days. The worst of course is reordering the channels in the TVG channel list especially if you have 550+

No, havn't done that yet but I may have to at some point. Note however that Opinionated on this board had his locking problem return with a machine he had factory reset, so it appears there are no guarantees.

I'm beginning to think that, unless Gemstar figures this one out, there simply may be no real solution.

Tom
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post #9580 of 29253 Old 04-28-2007, 05:27 AM
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I have 2 of the 250's , both with the ".06" firmware. I'm using cable only (Comcast Seattle). No CableCard, just QAM.

I have NEVER experienced any problems! No lockups, I can watch (a recorded show) while recording, and my clock updates in several minutes (after a recent power failure).

My only only quirk is MoviePlex... I can tune to the QAM channel (114.9), but I can't find the channel (either 114.9 or 149) in the TVGOS lineup.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones... it seems all tied to your local cable TV provider.

Just my .02.
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post #9581 of 29253 Old 04-28-2007, 11:57 PM
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tld, was it you that had the "recorded" program listsing, still not listed correctly? If so that could be a problem?

Try one week your Sony box hooked up direct, and bypass that switch box.........are you talking DVI and/or HDMI switching, then for sure I can guarantee you that is the problem.......particularly since your locking was only temporary, and not a hard freeze.

Those two issues, you should resolve, to eliminate them as problems.
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post #9582 of 29253 Old 04-29-2007, 12:08 AM
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Meanwhile, on the drive replacement front... I looked at the drive from my 250 this evening using the "taft" DOS IDE forensics utility and found that the WD drive is not configured to have a host protected area. In fact, the configuration of the drive totally matched the factory defaults of my spare retail WD drive.

So we can scratch the HPA off the list of things to investigate. I guess the next thing to try is to clone the drive and then try using the original's controller board.
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post #9583 of 29253 Old 04-29-2007, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fontana View Post

I guess the next thing to try is to clone the drive and then try using the original's controller board.

Is there anything - via visual inspection - of the two
controller boards that looks custom for the SONY
box? I know it is possible WD could have a special
ROM on the Sony board - but it is more likely the
CUSTOM ROM is in the Sony box.
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post #9584 of 29253 Old 04-29-2007, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

tld, was it you that had the "recorded" program listsing, still not listed correctly? If so that could be a problem?

Try one week your Sony box hooked up direct, and bypass that switch box.........are you talking DVI and/or HDMI switching, then for sure I can guarantee you that is the problem.......particularly since your locking was only temporary, and not a hard freeze.

Those two issues, you should resolve, to eliminate them as problems.

No that wasn't me. Aside from the locking issues, I have no problems and never have. My switch is a simple mechanical DVI switch with analog audio switching, and I can assure you that's not the issue. I used it for a year and it never did anything. I rarely even switch to the other receiver actually, and other than this last one all my locking issues have occurred while it was switched to the Sony. The lock that occurred was the typical hard lock that cleared up when the recording stopped.

Tom
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post #9585 of 29253 Old 04-29-2007, 06:33 AM
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tld,

I do know that "any" changes in the HDMI connections (I dont' know if your are using DVI to HDMI? that is just an assumption on my part?), even a split second change, will wreck havoc in the Sony Box. For what ever reason, any change in that signal will cause the Sony Box to "time out" and it will not resume it's process until it "re-confirms" and/or as I called "handshake" again this signal.
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post #9586 of 29253 Old 04-29-2007, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

tld,

I do know that "any" changes in the HDMI connections (I dont' know if your are using DVI to HDMI? that is just an assumption on my part?), even a split second change, will wreck havoc in the Sony Box. For what ever reason, any change in that signal will cause the Sony Box to "time out" and it will not resume it's process until it "re-confirms" and/or as I called "handshake" again this signal.

My TV has DVI and I use the HDMI to DVI connector that came with the Sony...nothing's doing DVI to HDMI. Again...for a year now, switching to the Sony with the switch simply caused it to renegotiate the digital connection with the TV for a split second and worked like a charm.

In any case, most all of ly locking problems weren't when I was switching, and like I said...it's a purely mechanical switch...no conversions of odd stuff. When it's not actually being switched it's functionally like a fixed cable.

Tom
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post #9587 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 05:21 AM
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Mark,
Have you tried putting the cloned drive in and then doing a firmware update via the USB port? I'm wondering if this would refresh the protection data since the firmware is being written to during the update.

Marshall

/\/\arshall \/\/atts
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post #9588 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 07:59 AM
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I doubt that would make a difference, but it's also not possible since the failure occurs during the bootloader stage (before the unit is "up"), when it is displaying the Sony logo and counting up the boot stage numbers 1-6 on the front panel. Sony themselves have said that a new drive must be prepped in a special jig before it will work in the DVR. The user-visible files on the drive are the same across units (they're basically the same three files as you put on the flash drive to update the firmware). So there must be something elsewhere on the drive that incorporates both the serial number of the unit and serial number of the drive. These are all problems the TiVo hacking community solved a long time ago- perhaps we can learn something from their work, at least what approach to take.
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post #9589 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fontana View Post

Sony themselves have said that a new drive must be prepped in a special jig before it will work in the DVR.

That makes sense - they must be writing something on the
drive that is not visible or understood by anything except
the DVR processor.

I assume you disc tools let you see everything even
non-standard stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fontana View Post

These are all problems the TiVo hacking community solved a long time ago- perhaps we can learn something from their work, at least what approach to take.

So what are the TiVo Hacking Secrets?
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post #9590 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

That makes sense - they must be writing something on the
drive that is not visible or understood by anything except
the DVR processor.

I assume you disc tools let you see everything even
non-standard stuff.



So what are the TiVo Hacking Secrets?

I doubt they would apply as TiVo uses a Linux based file system.
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post #9591 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

That makes sense - they must be writing something on the
drive that is not visible or understood by anything except the DVR processor.

My suspicion is that the entire xfs video data partition on each disk is encrypted using the unit serial number, drive serial number, and probably some shared secret. This would certainly prevent drives from being moved between units as well as prevent drives from being replaced by end users.

It was a while ago, but I did manage to get a second drive to show up in the system menu of my HDD250 by hotplugging the drive (!) after the unit was already up. (It would not boot with the drive connected.) If someone gutsy feels like picking up on those tests, you might try reproducing that result and then doing a disk format from the service menu while the drive is shown. (So basically take advantage of the unit's own ability to prep a drive.) This experiment is above my risk threshold for now.
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post #9592 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fontana View Post

This experiment is above my risk threshold for now.


I don't blame you Mark

My solution to the whole problem is I own (5) HDD500's
and one of them is kept as a spare if one of the (4) active
one dies. I did have to send one back to SONY for repair.
They did replace the drive about 9 months ago.

Knock on wood - no problems since then.
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post #9593 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fontana View Post

My suspicion is that the entire xfs video data partition on each disk is encrypted using the unit serial number, drive serial number, and probably some shared secret. This would certainly prevent drives from being moved between units as well as prevent drives from being replaced by end users.

It was a while ago, but I did manage to get a second drive to show up in the system menu of my HDD250 by hotplugging the drive (!) after the unit was already up. (It would not boot with the drive connected.) If someone gutsy feels like picking up on those tests, you might try reproducing that result and then doing a disk format from the service menu while the drive is shown. (So basically take advantage of the unit's own ability to prep a drive.) This experiment is above my risk threshold for now.

haven't tried this. interesting, wonder if i can do disk format on just the new drive?
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post #9594 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 10:14 AM
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sony won't sell me the special jig !!!
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post #9595 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tld View Post


I'm a little confused as to whether or not the guide needs to cycle out 8 days after the reset, or if I should be ok now. It's confusing because of the fact that I'm certain I never had any of the grid problems you described, and I never had a program not record or the like. I know for sure I would have noticed those incorrect grid displays switching between half hours on hour programs.

Tom

Somehow, when I did my 1-2-3 step reset, all data in the guide was wiped out. It took until the next day before anything showed up for the first few days and day 8. I'm not sure exactly what I did differently from you to clear out the entire guide, but still no locking yet.
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post #9596 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fontana View Post

It was a while ago, but I did manage to get a second drive to show up in the system menu of my HDD250 by hotplugging the drive (!) after the unit was already up.

Did you hot-plug the IDE cable from the mainboard directly into the second drive's IDE connector?

Would it be safer, instead, to use an IDE removable rack that supports hot-swapping?
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post #9597 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fontana View Post

My suspicion is that the entire xfs video data partition on each disk is encrypted using the unit serial number, drive serial number, and probably some shared secret. This would certainly prevent drives from being moved between units as well as prevent drives from being replaced by end users.

It was a while ago, but I did manage to get a second drive to show up in the system menu of my HDD250 by hotplugging the drive (!) after the unit was already up. (It would not boot with the drive connected.) If someone gutsy feels like picking up on those tests, you might try reproducing that result and then doing a disk format from the service menu while the drive is shown. (So basically take advantage of the unit's own ability to prep a drive.) This experiment is above my risk threshold for now.

Mark,

Are the drives set up as master slave, and in the HDD500 are there files beside the encrypted video (ie the sony files) on the second drive? You're probably correct on the generation of the CPRM ID. The orignal spec came from IBM. Here's an excerpt from a presentation.

"The proposal makes use of around a megabyte of read-only storage on each hard drive that isn't usually accessed by the end user for a "Media Key Block".
According to research scientist Jeffrey Lotspiech of IBM's Almaden Research Lab,
this is a matrix of 16 columns and some 3000 rows. A static "Media Unique Key" in
a separate, hidden area of the drive, identifies the individual drive. "

"Recall that there are two areas that CPRM can be said to
reside - and here, use page 10 of the presentation above. The Media
Key Block (which is most of that megabyte) is in a read-only area, and
the Media Unique Key (which uniquely identifies the disk) is in a
"hidden area". Both are what is called "vendor space" - the part that
handles out of bounds sector"
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post #9598 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci View Post

Did you hot-plug the IDE cable from the mainboard directly into the second drive's IDE connector?

Would it be safer, instead, to use an IDE removable rack that supports hot-swapping?

wouldn't it be funny if the "special jig" is an external hot swap chassie?
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post #9599 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videophiles09 View Post

sony won't sell me the special jig !!!

Does that SURPRISE YOU
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post #9600 of 29253 Old 04-30-2007, 07:28 PM
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Does that SURPRISE YOU

despite the $200 bribe!
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