Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 370 - AVS Forum
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post #11071 of 29262 Old 01-23-2008, 11:46 AM
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My co-worker's roommate works for the cable company I use as an installer/onsite tech so I am going to reach out to him as well and see if maybe he might have some insight. I hope it is as simple as having the right people do the authorizations in the right order and not having to pay for a firmware upgrade.

EDIT: I guess I should have searched this thread a little more thoroughly. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...32#post6913132 I have gotten error 161-6 so I may have send it in after all.
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post #11072 of 29262 Old 01-23-2008, 03:27 PM
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Well, it was fun while it lasted but just shipped out my last HDD250 today, I now can export all my recordings, add more hard drive space etc with my new Tivo's and my favorite function "Season ticket". Thanks for all the help and to all, take care.

Jim

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post #11073 of 29262 Old 01-23-2008, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioxcel View Post

[i]

This is reassuring but it still leaves a bit of a problem that I think most people who are planning to use a DA converter box are overlooking. A switch box
will have to be integrated if you are receiving the TVGOS via antenna (OTA).

If a switch box were not used, ALL of the input signal to the DHG would be analog. In order to input digital, the DA converter would have to be switched out. At night the DA converter would have to be switched in to receive the TVGOS programming info.

This might even apply if if you are receiving the TVGOS via cable depending on how the providers implement the TVGOS after the analog cutoff.

I am going to looking for a high quality switch box now. A manual one would probably give the most bang for the buck quality wise.

A remote controlled switch box could be used in conjunction with a programmable remote though, and a macro could be programed to make the switch whenever the DHG is turned off. This would prevent having to remember to make the switch every night. I already use macros on my programmable remote to turn everything on and off but usually use the DHG remote while watching TV cause I love that little wheel.

If I were you I wouldn't rush out to buy that switchbox. Those who use only cable or ota, can connect the converter box to the unused input. For those who use both, a simple signal splitter used as a signal combiner provides simple way to insert analog signal into either cable or antenna input.

Ray
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post #11074 of 29262 Old 01-23-2008, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderdea View Post

Cheneyp,
After may last post, late Tuesday afternoon, I performed an auto scan for all my OTA channels and my limited cable (Basic) channels. When I checked the guide at about 6:00 AM this morning (Wednesday), it had beem populated. I didn't have time to see how far out it went. Hopefully it won't go away after a day like it did a few days earlier.

Since nothing else has worked reliably so far, I've done the same thing. We'll see how it goes...
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post #11075 of 29262 Old 01-23-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1938 View Post

If I were you I wouldn't rush out to buy that switchbox. Those who use only cable or ota, can connect the converter box to the unused input. For those who use both, a simple signal splitter used as a signal combiner provides simple way to insert analog signal into either cable or antenna input.

Ray

I already use a splitter for my TV and DHG so I can ocassionally watch one show on the TV while I record another on the DHG. I could just add another splitter but I wonder if I would get too much loss. I suppose I could use an amplifier if that happens or just give up lead to the TV.

So, you are saying that the analog signal from the DA converter could be set to tune to say "cable" channel 10 and the the OTA digital signal could be set to "antenna" channel 10.1.

I guess I could test that by splitting the signal now and plugging both leads into the DHG. I could turn channel 10 analog off on the antenna side and everything but channel 10 off on the cable side and see if I still get the guide.

That would be great if it works that way. It kind of makes sense since analog sets will still have to be able to use their NTSC tuner dialed to to channel 10 to receive the signal from the DA converter.

I have always wondered how the DHG uses only one input for both ATSC and NTSC tuners since my TV uses two inputs like TVs that have separate inputs for VHF and UHF.
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post #11076 of 29262 Old 01-23-2008, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioxcel View Post

I have always wondered how the DHG uses only one input for both ATSC and NTSC tuners since my TV uses two inputs like TVs that have separate inputs for VHF and UHF.

My TV only has one input for ATSC and NTSC. I'm probably wrong but I think the way it works is that since all ATSC channels are received in the xx.x format and NTSC channels are simply XX the TV or in this case the DHG just switches to the appropriate tuner based on the channel selected. On my DHG if I had the analog turned on it would tune to Cable channel 4, then NTSC 4, then NTSC 4.1 if I was using the channel up buttons. Like I said I'm probably wrong but that's how I like to think it works. At the very least it's better than saying "it's magic!"
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post #11077 of 29262 Old 01-24-2008, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSkiewalker View Post

My TV only has one input for ATSC and NTSC. I'm probably wrong but I think the way it works is that since all ATSC channels are received in the xx.x format and NTSC channels are simply XX the TV or in this case the DHG just switches to the appropriate tuner based on the channel selected. On my DHG if I had the analog turned on it would tune to Cable channel 4, then NTSC 4, then NTSC 4.1 if I was using the channel up buttons. Like I said I'm probably wrong but that's how I like to think it works. At the very least it's better than saying "it's magic!"

The DHG uses a mechanical relay to select between cable and antenna signals. I can hear the switch as I move through the channels. Electronic switches are probably used to select between analog and digital tuners since I don't hear any sound when I tune from an analog to a digital channel. By the way, channel 4.1 is ATSC, not NTSC.

Ray
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post #11078 of 29262 Old 01-24-2008, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioxcel View Post

So, you are saying that the analog signal from the DA converter could be set to tune to say "cable" channel 10 and the the OTA digital signal could be set to "antenna" channel 10.1.

I guess I could test that by splitting the signal now and plugging both leads into the DHG. I could turn channel 10 analog off on the antenna side and everything but channel 10 off on the cable side and see if I still get the guide.

Please see my post regarding testing an antenna connection to the Cable input to make sure this would work:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post12634014

-phil

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post #11079 of 29262 Old 01-24-2008, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1938 View Post

By the way, channel 4.1 is ATSC, not NTSC.

Ray

Yeah that was a typo on my part. Typed NTSC twice. Sorry for the confusion.
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post #11080 of 29262 Old 01-24-2008, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioxcel View Post

I already use a splitter for my TV and DHG so I can ocassionally watch one show on the TV while I record another on the DHG. I could just add another splitter but I wonder if I would get too much loss. I suppose I could use an amplifier if that happens or just give up lead to the TV.

So, you are saying that the analog signal from the DA converter could be set

The set top box will likely require the user to select the digital channel (ack- another remote!) and transmit the analog signal + TVGOS info out on Channel 2 or 3. Best bet to minimize all losses will be to get a jointennna tuned for the appropriate frequency. A normal splitter used as a combiner introduces signal loss on both inputs.
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post #11081 of 29262 Old 01-24-2008, 02:11 PM
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I've been reading the posts these last few days about using a TR-40 to convert the digital signal to analog to pass the TVGOS data to the HDD250/500 (after Feb 2009). Has anyone confirmed with Gemstar (TVGOS) people that the guide data in a digital transmission CAN be converted into the VBI of an analog signal (using the TR-40 or any other device). If they say it is not possible, then everyone's HDD will be useless in Feb/2009. Does anyone in this forum have a source at Gemstar he/she can contact to confirm if the TVGOS data can be converted from digital to analog.
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post #11082 of 29262 Old 01-24-2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonInJackson View Post

I've been reading the posts these last few days about using a TR-40 to convert the digital signal to analog to pass the TVGOS data to the HDD250/500 (after Feb 2009). Has anyone confirmed with Gemstar (TVGOS) people that the guide data in a digital transmission CAN be converted into the VBI of an analog signal (using the TR-40 or any other device). If they say it is not possible, then everyone's HDD will be useless in Feb/2009. Does anyone in this forum have a source at Gemstar he/she can contact to confirm if the TVGOS data can be converted from digital to analog.

It certainly is possible if one knows the format of the Gemstar data in the ATSC stream and the format of the data in the VBI of the NTSC stream. I think it's very unlikely that this will be done unless Gemstar is paying for it as there is little incentive for manufacturers to include this in a box that they are trying to sell for as little as possible (in Echostar's case $40).

-phil

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post #11083 of 29262 Old 01-24-2008, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilB View Post

It certainly is possible if one knows the format of the Gemstar data in the ATSC stream and the format of the data in the VBI of the NTSC stream. I think it's very unlikely that this will be done unless Gemstar is paying for it as there is little incentive for manufacturers to include this in a box that they are trying to sell for as little as possible (in Echostar's case $40).

-phil

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I am betting on the info in this post by FOX200:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=11110

In any case, I have sent for my $40 coupon and so it will cost me nothing to buy the Echostar DA converter if it actually comes out on schedule and at the prerelease MSRP.
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post #11084 of 29262 Old 01-25-2008, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioxcel View Post

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I am betting on the info in this post by FOX200:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=11110

In any case, I have sent for my $40 coupon and so it will cost me nothing to buy the Echostar DA converter if it actually comes out on schedule and at the prerelease MSRP.

One question that needs to be asked is: Are all converters required to conform to the same specifications? I looked at the specifications posted on several of these boxes and they are not identical. Could be that not every feature is being listed. On the other hand, perhaps only certain ones will provide clock and guide data. Seems to me that the converter doesn't need to be designed for guide data, only to format the VBI data from a digital sub channel. I'm not going to buy one of these boxes until I find out more about them.

Ray
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post #11085 of 29262 Old 01-26-2008, 04:35 PM
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Is there such thing as a "ATSC Slicer" menu in the diagnostics menu of the Sony DHG? The reason I ask is because in my Toshiba TV(62HM15A) that has TVGOS, has that option; which may lead to a possibility for decoding Digital TVGOS signals when they become available.
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post #11086 of 29262 Old 01-27-2008, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1938 View Post

Are all converters required to conform to the same specifications?

No. There is a set of features that all the "coupon boxes" have to have. There is another set that they are forbidden to have (e.g. HDMI output). Other features are optional. Translating Gemstar EPG data is optional. As far as I know, only the Echostar TR-40 will do it.
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post #11087 of 29262 Old 01-27-2008, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbell View Post

No. There is a set of features that all the "coupon boxes" have to have. There is another set that they are forbidden to have (e.g. HDMI output). Other features are optional. Translating Gemstar EPG data is optional. As far as I know, only the Echostar TR-40 will do it.

Seems to me that we need the box to reformat the data; it doesn't need to know what the data contains. That a box provides an on screen program guide doesn't insure that the Sony DVR can use it.

Ray
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post #11088 of 29262 Old 01-28-2008, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderdea
Cheneyp,
After may last post, late Tuesday afternoon, I performed an auto scan for all my OTA channels and my limited cable (Basic) channels. When I checked the guide at about 6:00 AM this morning (Wednesday), it had beem populated. I didn't have time to see how far out it went. Hopefully it won't go away after a day like it did a few days earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheneyp View Post

Since nothing else has worked reliably so far, I've done the same thing. We'll see how it goes...

Well, I think I've done everything so far to reset the guide on two of my Sonys. I've done soft resets, hard resets (unplugging), the TVGOS-recommended method of setting your zip to 00000, and then putting back your zip code after a 5 min power down as well as re-scanning all of my channels (last thing I tried). Whatever I do I get the first download overnite (Day 1, 2, 5, 8) but it never updates after that. I have a third Sony that has never stopped getting the guide. All three have the same host channel (local PBS on cable).

The only common thread is the two that are having trouble are right next to each other and using the same source (split). The third unit is in another room. I thought perhaps it was a signal strength issue but I have a TV with the previous version of TVGOS right next to the two Sonys in question (split off the same cable input) that has no guide issues. Any other suggestions?

Anderdea - did your guide keep updating?
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post #11089 of 29262 Old 01-28-2008, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheneyp View Post

Quote:
The only common thread is the two that are having trouble are right next to each other and using the same source (split). The third unit is in another room. I thought perhaps it was a signal strength issue but I have a TV with the previous version of TVGOS right next to the two Sonys in question (split off the same cable input) that has no guide issues. Any other suggestions?

Don't assume it can't be a signal strength issue. The tuner in the Sony is not good at all at pulling in medium or weak signals (mine isn't anyway). I have my TV and Sony split off the same lead and the TV locks in channels that the Sony doesn't even register a signal on. It's a PITA at times......

I would still take the split off the lead and see if you can get data without the split on one machine.

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post #11090 of 29262 Old 01-28-2008, 11:07 AM
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Cheneyp / Mike LS,
Well I am also still have issues. When I performed a soft reboot on Friday night it gave me a guide through 4:30 AM on Monday 1/28/08. Not days 1 2 5 8 etc. Although, I didn't look past day 4. It also didn't update again. So last night I did a soft reboot again and I'll check when I get home tonight to see if it updated at all. Don't know what the issue is. I am recieving the PBS TVguide feed on my comcast cable (Middletown) channel 16 (at least that what the drill down info menu says)

In regards to the tuner sensitivity issue, I had very little trouble getting it to bring in some distant channels. Also my setup hasn't changed in two years. It's being fed with an OTA distribution amp that is driving 3 other ATSC tunners. My dish network receiver, an ATSC tuner card in my HTPC and a second Sony TV with a built in ATSC Tuner (no guide).

It's strange that we are having the same issue. Does anyone know if there is a button battery in the unit that maintains info that my be getting old. However, if so, these are usually 10 year lithium batteries.
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post #11091 of 29262 Old 01-28-2008, 02:37 PM
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cheneyp,
Well I checked when I got home and I have data from Wednesday at 0400 to Thursday at 0400. Then Saturday at 0400 to Sunday at 0400. It stops scrolling forward on Monday at 2330. Wish I knew what was going on. This is really frustrating. It's really strange that one of your 3 units is working fine.
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post #11092 of 29262 Old 01-29-2008, 11:18 AM
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I would like to either gain access to the video files stored on my DHG-HDD250 or output them to a computer or some other media so I put the file on a DVD.

Basically I have a TV show that I recorded and I want to be able to give it to a friend. Does anyone know of anyway to do this?

The USB port doesn't seem like it is operational
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post #11093 of 29262 Old 01-29-2008, 12:54 PM
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Sadly, there is no simple way to do the transfer.

All you can do is get an analog capture card for your computer or hook up a DVD recorder (which is what I do).

This means no HD (unless you have a REALLY expensive component or DVI/HDMI capture card or equipment).

Sorry.
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post #11094 of 29262 Old 01-29-2008, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gurujef03 View Post

I would like to either gain access to the video files stored on my DHG-HDD250 or output them to a computer or some other media so I put the file on a DVD.

Basically I have a TV show that I recorded and I want to be able to give it to a friend. Does anyone know of anyway to do this?

The USB port doesn't seem like it is operational

Did you consider transferring it to VCR tape, assuming both you and your friend have VCRs?
Ray
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post #11095 of 29262 Old 01-29-2008, 05:16 PM
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My VCR has been collecting dust. I stop using it when I got my sony about 2 years ago.

I'm actually very surprised the sony has kept its value. I got it on sale for $400 brand new from bestbuy
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post #11096 of 29262 Old 01-29-2008, 07:25 PM
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I make copies all the time. I have a DVD recorder connected to the svideo out. It's not HD but I get great copies. If you find a better way please let us know.
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post #11097 of 29262 Old 01-29-2008, 10:59 PM
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The only better way is probably if you have copy protection issues, using a computer you already have and video software that can break the CP willbe cheaper than going out and buying a DVD recorder and a separate "video enhancer" to do it.
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post #11098 of 29262 Old 01-29-2008, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioxcel View Post

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I am betting on the info in this post by FOX200:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=11110

In any case, I have sent for my $40 coupon and so it will cost me nothing to buy the Echostar DA converter if it actually comes out on schedule and at the prerelease MSRP.

Well, that comment was based on the quote below which can also be taken to mean anyone with a digital to analog converter box will continue to receive TV Guide data simply because the digital to analog converter box itself has the TV Guide EPG built-in NOT because it will convert the guide data to digital and output it for use with DVRs like our Sonys. I sincerely doubt that is the case in fact.

"Also, while we were there we asked them about all those old analog TVs that depend on analog signals for TV Guide data, and they explained that they've deployed a solution to this problem years ago and everyone with a digital to analog converter box will have no problem continuing to receive guide data after the analog shutoff."

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post #11099 of 29262 Old 01-30-2008, 06:10 AM
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Well I screwed up , it apperars big time.
I've been having problems receiving program updates. So per the "TVGOS Training Manual" I rebooted the TVGOS using the code 653274147.
Well I guess it didn't reboot. I get the time on the front of the display but when I turn the unit on, it displays on my TV, "Tunning" then "no signal". I have soft reset it, and unplugged it but that's all I get. No video at all, just a blank screen with the "no signal" text indicated. I let it sit overnight (unit off) but this morning, no change. The display on the unit, when turned on, displays the time, Power and a big "2" under the power. I unplugged it when I left for work this morning to let it sit unpowered for a while. Don't know if that will help.

Anyone know how I can reset this unit DHG-HDD250 to come back to life?
The Cable and OTA input coax cables are still hooked up the the DDVR.
Thanks, Don
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post #11100 of 29262 Old 01-30-2008, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

The only better way is probably if you have copy protection issues, using a computer you already have and video software that can break the CP willbe cheaper than going out and buying a DVD recorder and a separate "video enhancer" to do it.

Please set this up and get back to us on how it works. (Good luck!!!)
What are you exactly talking about "using a computer you already have"?

Are you one of those guy that thinks that because you downloaded software to Decrypt DVDs you can just spend a little while longer searching the Internet and you will find a program to decrypt SONY DVRs? Look as long as you want you wont find anything. The DVD decryption keys have to be shared will all manufactures of players (including software players) and some of these manufactures didn't protect them well so it allowed the scheme to be cracked (Just like how HDDVD was broken for current disks). SONY was probably developed in Japan and SONY has no reason to share its keys with anyone so unless you speak Japanese and are a good programmer and move to Japan and work for SONY, I don't think you will find a crack to get the raw MPEG off the SONY DVR. SONY Engineer probably can't even take your SONY's HDD and decrypt it. The key was probably randomly created during manufacturing and stored in a protected flash sector for your unit. For a rouge Sony engineer to get your raw MPEG off your HDD they would probably need to download special firmware to decrypt it and send it some where like to a USB attached HDD. And the release tool that needs to sign SONY's signature for a firmware that your retail unit would load is probably only in Japan. So the rouge Engineer couldn't make new software versions on their home computers and send them out to a news group for people with retail SONY HDD to use.
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