Recording to PC from a SA 8300HD via Firewire - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 02-17-2007, 11:53 PM
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Thanks for your simple method Vidguy. I've been trying to figure this out on and off for several weeks and it's been very frustrating.

My main goal was to at least get a visible image on a capture program and then get a file saved on my pc. Thanks to the tips in posts #83 and #90, I got both. One big roadblock was the old version of VLC I was using. Once I loaded 0.8.6a it eliminated a lot of problems.

I must add that I was blown away at the quality of the stream and the playback. Now I need to work on eliminating the artifacts every couple of seconds. Thanks again..
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Old 02-19-2007, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Vidguy View Post

You need to look at the 8300HD diagnostics screen, page 31 "1394 Information". Read the SA 8300 HD Tips & Tricks -- SARA thread for instructions. You can change the channels while watching the diagnostic screen to check various channels. There is a delayed reaction, so wait a few seconds after changing channels. If "free" or "undefined" is shown, you should be able to record that channel.

To use VLC:
- Open VLC
- Choose "File" > "Open Capture Device"
- In the DirectShow tab to the right of "Video device name" click "Refresh List," then choose "Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Tuner Device" from the drop down.
- If you want to capture the stream, click "Stream/Save", go into "settings" and select "Play locally" and "File" and enter a filename ending with .ts. Use the "Browse" button to specify a loacation. Click "OK"
- Click "OK"


Ok that did work, but the resulting video is has some stutters and occasional pixelation.

What settings do you use when streaming to a file. I tried a raw dump and that seemed to work the best but still exhibited these problems.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TJ22 View Post

Ok that did work, but the resulting video is has some stutters and occasional pixelation.

What settings do you use when streaming to a file. I tried a raw dump and that seemed to work the best but still exhibited these problems.


As of now nothing you do with VLC will elimate the video/audio artifacts that crop up now and then. All we can hope for is a firmware upgrade (I'm on the 1.88.xx strain atm) from Cisco for the 8300HD that will resolve this issue.


I would be interested to know if any 1.89.xx users have been able to transfer to their PC using VLC and not experience any audio/video artifacts?
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Old 02-19-2007, 07:16 PM
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quick question: Do you have to subscribe to the DVR service to use the firewire port on the 8300HD? I have Comcast HD package but I didn't get them to activate the DVR function so I was wondering if I would be able to copy HD movies onto my computer.

Thanks for all these posts. I need to know about this question because I was having problems with my On-Demand service and a Comcast tech is coming out tomorrow so it might be a good time to get this
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

quick question: Do you have to subscribe to the DVR service to use the firewire port on the 8300HD? I have Comcast HD package but I didn't get them to activate the DVR function so I was wondering if I would be able to copy HD movies onto my computer.

Thanks for all these posts. I need to know about this question because I was having problems with my On-Demand service and a Comcast tech is coming out tomorrow so it might be a good time to get this

I would think so, because if your box is like mine, you will only be able to get a good stream out of the 1394 port for a recorded, non 5C encrypted program. If you want to copy and don't want to pay for a the DVR service, why not just get a SA 3240 or 3250 HD box. From what I understand, the firewire ports on both of those boxes put out a good live stream. I had a 3250 before the 8300, and the 1394 worked great.

I think the dropouts/artifacts are a limitation of the 1994 firewire ports on the 8300 for higher bitrates (like I said before, over 15,000 kb/s). Hopefully, this can be resolved with a firmware fix. I have SARA 1.88.22.1, and would like to hear from someone with a 1.89.xx firmware to determine if this has been resolved.
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:47 PM
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subwoofer: I'm still testing out my SA 8300 dvr and this is what I've found out so far: To capture any video to my computer using VLC 0.8.6a, it has to be recorded onto the dvr first. "Live" video doesn't capture.

After recording to my dvr, out of the 18 Hi-def channels I have, video from the following stations will not capture: HBO, Showtime, ESPN, TNT, and A&E. Thankfully I can capture scenes from the other stations like ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, Discovery, Music-HD, and a few others.
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidguy View Post

I would think so, because if your box is like mine, you will only be able to get a good stream out of the 1394 port for a recorded, non 5C encrypted program. If you want to copy and don't want to pay for a the DVR service, why not just get a SA 3240 or 3250 HD box. From what I understand, the firewire ports on both of those boxes put out a good live stream. I had a 3250 before the 8300, and the 1394 worked great.

I think the dropouts/artifacts are a limitation of the 1994 firewire ports on the 8300 for higher bitrates (like I said before, over 15,000 kb/s). Hopefully, this can be resolved with a firmware fix. I have SARA 1.88.22.1, and would like to hear from someone with a 1.89.xx firmware to determine if this has been resolved.

How are you able to get fireware upgrades on these boxes? Do you have to upload them via usb drive?

I would assume from what you wrote that I should be able to get live streams from the box to my PC via firewire. I guess I'm just being cheap and I don't want to have to pay Comcast anymore money but I want to be able to copy and store HD material onto my PC.
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by aeraun View Post

subwoofer: I'm still testing out my SA 8300 dvr and this is what I've found out so far: To capture any video to my computer using VLC 0.8.6a, it has to be recorded onto the dvr first. "Live" video doesn't capture.

After recording to my dvr, out of the 18 Hi-def channels I have, video from the following stations will not capture: HBO, Showtime, ESPN, TNT, and A&E. Thankfully I can capture scenes from the other stations like ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, Discovery, Music-HD, and a few others.

aeraun, Thank you VERY much for posting this info. I wonder why HBO or Showtime will not record. These would definitely be the stations that I would want to get movies in HD on my PC to watch at any time. Have there been any fixes on this or reasons why these don't work?
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by aeraun View Post

subwoofer: I'm still testing out my SA 8300 dvr and this is what I've found out so far: To capture any video to my computer using VLC 0.8.6a, it has to be recorded onto the dvr first. "Live" video doesn't capture.

After recording to my dvr, out of the 18 Hi-def channels I have, video from the following stations will not capture: HBO, Showtime, ESPN, TNT, and A&E. Thankfully I can capture scenes from the other stations like ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, Discovery, Music-HD, and a few others.


Were you able to get artifact free video? If so what software did you use and what were your settigns?
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:33 PM
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I finally was able to capture some pre-recorded video via firewire on my XP laptop using VLC. I had to upgrade my version of VLC to the latest v0.8.6a. I still, like many, have issues with video and audio artifacts. I only did a test capture of for about a minute of and HD recording of Heros. The amount of visual glitches and audio jitter in just that short amount of time was disappointing. I'll have to do some more testing but I couldn't imaging getting a watchable capture if that type of quality (or rather lack of) were to be consistent. I wonder if the limitation is 8300 or the PC?

Has anyone compared the video captured without live previewing if there is any difference?
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Old 02-21-2007, 05:44 PM
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Update:

More sucesss to report. As I mentioned earlier I was curious if the choppy captures were due to the 8300, the external 500GB eSATA drive, or my laptop. So I did some cleanup and maintenance on my laptop. I uninstalled about 3GB of unnecessary programs, ran anti-virus and spyware apps, and defragmented the HD w/ PerfectDisk.

Another thing I did was increase the caching rate in VLC to 700ms. I now get a MUCH smoother capture with little artifacting.

I also wanted to see if I would have any troubles with HD subscription channels (non-network). There were no encryption issues when I tested capturing some recorded material from DiscoveryHD.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ketamine View Post

Update:

More sucesss to report. As I mentioned earlier I was curious if the choppy captures were due to the 8300, the external 500GB eSATA drive, or my laptop. So I did some cleanup and maintenance on my laptop. I uninstalled about 3GB of unnecessary programs, ran anti-virus and spyware apps, and defragmented the HD w/ PerfectDisk.

Another thing I did was increase the caching rate in VLC to 700ms. I now get a MUCH smoother capture with little artifacting.

I also wanted to see if I would have any troubles with HD subscription channels (non-network). There were no encryption issues when I tested capturing some recorded material from DiscoveryHD.

Right, but what about HBO or Showtime?
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:00 PM
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I used VLC with "stream/save" to a file "dump raw input" and 1000 for caching....no artifacts on SD content.
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Old 02-22-2007, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

Right, but what about HBO or Showtime?

I don't have HBO or Showtime so I can't really comment on that.
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Old 02-22-2007, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TJ22 View Post

I used VLC with "stream/save" to a file "dump raw input" and 1000 for caching....no artifacts on SD content.

I haven't tried checking the "dump raw input" option. SD content has never been much of an issue. I can capture it all day with no artifacts.

It's the high bit-rate HD material that can cause some problems as far as dealing/managing "hiccups" or artifacts.
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Old 02-22-2007, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketamine View Post

I finally was able to capture some pre-recorded video via firewire on my XP laptop using VLC. I had to upgrade my version of VLC to the latest v0.8.6a. I still, like many, have issues with video and audio artifacts. I only did a test capture of for about a minute of and HD recording of Heros. The amount of visual glitches and audio jitter in just that short amount of time was disappointing. I'll have to do some more testing but I couldn't imaging getting a watchable capture if that type of quality (or rather lack of) were to be consistent. I wonder if the limitation is 8300 or the PC?

Has anyone compared the video captured without live previewing if there is any difference?

The problem is definately within the 8300HD atm as I have used my same laptop to copy from a motorola HD receiver with no video/sound artifacts.

Fingers crossed for a firmware upgrade on the 8300HD to correct it....
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Old 02-22-2007, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ketamine View Post

I haven't tried checking the "dump raw input" option. SD content has never been much of an issue. I can capture it all day with no artifacts.

It's the high bit-rate HD material that can cause some problems as far as dealing/managing "hiccups" or artifacts.

I did some testing again tonight and have narrowed it down as far as video artifacts are concerned. Seems any 720p (ABC/FOX/ESPN) recordings play fine no matter the bit-rate. I only did 5 min samples but I've noticed before the video artifacts crop up within the first minute on my other recordings.

Then I went and copied 4 1080i recordings (5 mins each) and you guessed it, all had video artifacts in the first min.

My testing was done using the 1.88.xx strain.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by uncertainty View Post

The problem is definately within the 8300HD atm as I have used my same laptop to copy from a motorola HD receiver with no video/sound artifacts.

Fingers crossed for a firmware upgrade on the 8300HD to correct it....

This doesn't necessarily mean that there is a "problem" with the 8300HD. For instance, have you compared the output bit-rates of the content you're trying to capture from both receivers? Perhaps the Moto limits the input/output bandwidth.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ketamine View Post

This doesn't necessarily mean that there is a "problem" with the 8300HD. For instance, have you compared the output bit-rates of the content you're trying to capture from both receivers? Perhaps the Moto limits the input/output bandwidth.

Both the 8300HD and motorola max out at about 16000bits/sec.........I have confirmed that the 720p TS files (ABC,FOX and ESPN) on the 8300HD have few if any artifacts and I've started to encode them to h.246. Now once the 1080i is resolved I'll be a happy camper.

BTW after trying out numerous video encoders and such I've been able to use 2 products that give great encoding along with removing framing errors from the .TS files.

I use Videoredo to fix the framing errors on the .ts files and covert it to mpeg2 (AC3 audio also) and then use nero 7 to encode the fixed mpeg2 files to h.264 along with ACC audio. Works like a charm, good quality , quick and most of all no audio sync issues thanks to videoredo fixing the audio/video framing issues.
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by uncertainty View Post

Both the 8300HD and motorola max out at about 16000bits/sec.........I have confirmed that the 720p TS files (ABC,FOX and ESPN) on the 8300HD have few if any artifacts and I've started to encode them to h.246. Now once the 1080i is resolved I'll be a happy camper.

BTW after trying out numerous video encoders and such I've been able to use 2 products that give great encoding along with removing framing errors from the .TS files.

I use Videoredo to fix the framing errors on the .ts files and covert it to mpeg2 (AC3 audio also) and then use nero 7 to encode the fixed mpeg2 files to h.264 along with ACC audio. Works like a charm, good quality , quick and most of all no audio sync issues thanks to videoredo fixing the audio/video framing issues.


Cool. Thanks for the software recommendations, I will try those out myself. I've personally only used some freeware called mpeg2repair to fix .TS files with minor to slightly moderate glitches. It seems to do a very satisfactory job.

I've had similar results as you in terms of 720p vs. 1080i content. 720p material seems easily handled to VLC via 1394 (firewire) with minimal artifacting. Something I haven't tried is temporarily disabling 1080i as one of the output methods so any 1080i material is down-scaled. I have a feeling though that those settings don't affect data coming out of the 1394 ports. I have 720p disabled as an output method to my display since IQ appears better when the TV scales down 1080i (even though the native resolution is 720p).

What I'd like to see is someone compare capturing from a notebook to a higher spec'd desktop?

The laptop I've been using has a fresh install of XP SP2 with minimal overhead and a practically 100% un-fragmented 60GB drive, but is only a 1.5Ghz Celly w/512MB memory. I thinking of getting an active firewire hub to extend a cable long enough to the office and see if my AMD Opteron 175 (2.7Ghz) rig w/ 2GB OCZ Plat. memory, and 10K RPM SATA3 drives can do any better capturing 1080i content?

I'll keep posting any updates or changes. The firmware on my 8300HD SARA v1.88.24.2. I don't remember if I mentioned that in earlier posts or not.
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ketamine View Post

Cool. Thanks for the software recommendations, I will try those out myself. I've personally only used some freeware called mpeg2repair to fix .TS files with minor to slightly moderate glitches. It seems to do a very satisfactory job.

I've had similar results as you in terms of 720p vs. 1080i content. 720p material seems easily handled to VLC via 1394 (firewire) with minimal artifacting. Something I haven't tried is temporarily disabling 1080i as one of the output methods so any 1080i material is down-scaled. I have a feeling though that those settings don't affect data coming out of the 1394 ports. I have 720p disabled as an output method to my display since IQ appears better when the TV scales down 1080i (even though the native resolution is 720p).

What I'd like to see is someone compare capturing from a notebook to a higher spec'd desktop?

The laptop I've been using has a fresh install of XP SP2 with minimal overhead and a practically 100% un-fragmented 60GB drive, but is only a 1.5Ghz Celly w/512MB memory. I thinking of getting an active firewire hub to extend a cable long enough to the office and see if my AMD Opteron 175 (2.7Ghz) rig w/ 2GB OCZ Plat. memory, and 10K RPM SATA3 drives can do any better capturing 1080i content?

I'll keep posting any updates or changes. The firmware on my 8300HD SARA v1.88.24.2. I don't remember if I mentioned that in earlier posts or not.


The notebook Im using to capture the feed is a duo core 2 T7600 so that rules out horsepower being the cause of video/sound artifacts with 1080i material. I've yet to see one post from any 8300HD user that has been able to capture clean 1080i material yet (clean being relative in the sense of being able to watch 5 mins of a feed and not have any video/audio artifacts).

As for disabling 1080i and trying to capture via firewire I agree with you that it will still stream as 1080i as thats what was saved on the HD.


I'm waiting for a 1.89.xx user to post some results that they have with 1080i.
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:32 PM
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As for disabling 1080i and trying to capture via firewire I agree with you that it will still stream as 1080i as thats what was saved on the HD.

Are you positive about this? The, albeit limited, amount of testing I did appears it does make a difference. I diasabled 1080i in the advanced setup and set the "Picture Format" to Upconvert 2 (or maybe it was "Fixed"? Definitely one of the two.). When in this setup it appears the box actually puts out 720p stream to VLC even if the material broadcast/recording was 1080i. With this method I was able to capture 1080i content with similar results (as far as amount of skips, artifacts, dropouts etc) of 720p content.

Unfortunately this experiment seems to bring up a new set of oddities. While the video playback was smooth it had and peculiar look to the overall video frame. The best way I can describe it is that it looks like the entire video had these thin, stable, black lines that seemed to be outlining boxes (like tic-tac-toe) around the frame. I don't know if this is due to incorrect VLC settings, my video card, or what. It also appears when I play it back on other computers. I've used VLC (of coarse), WMP11, and WMP Classic with similar results during playback.

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I'm waiting for a 1.89.xx user to post some results that they have with 1080i.

Me too. You would think someone would have tried this by now
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Old 02-28-2007, 09:30 PM
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Me too. You would think someone would have tried this by now

I have 1.89.17.1 here and have been toying around with this on and off for 2 weeks now. I'm sorry to report that I am seeing the same problems you are. At best, my recordings glitch once every minute or so.
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ketamine View Post

Are you positive about this? The, albeit limited, amount of testing I did appears it does make a difference. I diasabled 1080i in the advanced setup and set the "Picture Format" to Upconvert 2 (or maybe it was "Fixed"? Definitely one of the two.). When in this setup it appears the box actually puts out 720p stream to VLC even if the material broadcast/recording was 1080i. With this method I was able to capture 1080i content with similar results (as far as amount of skips, artifacts, dropouts etc) of 720p content.

Unfortunately this experiment seems to bring up a new set of oddities. While the video playback was smooth it had and peculiar look to the overall video frame. The best way I can describe it is that it looks like the entire video had these thin, stable, black lines that seemed to be outlining boxes (like tic-tac-toe) around the frame. I don't know if this is due to incorrect VLC settings, my video card, or what. It also appears when I play it back on other computers. I've used VLC (of coarse), WMP11, and WMP Classic with similar results during playback.


Me too. You would think someone would have tried this by now

Wow, you just proved video settings on the 8300HD also influence the firewire settings. The weird thing is my unit is set to only output 1080i to my TV yet the material I capture with VLC is both 720p and 1080i depending on the network.

I'm sad to hear that Cisco decided to code the box this way. The reason I say this is its obvious that the video outputs of the box may be entirely different then the corresponding PC/Mac connected to the firewire but like all things it just revolves around the current firmware.

I'll reconfigure my 8300 this weekend and try to replicate what you are experiencing.

Just read a 1.89.xx user still has the same issue as we do....
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by delar View Post

I have 1.89.17.1 here and have been toying around with this on and off for 2 weeks now. I'm sorry to report that I am seeing the same problems you are. At best, my recordings glitch once every minute or so.

Thankx for the input Delar.......hopefully Cisco will resolve this issue regarding 1080i material soon.....
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Vidguy View Post

Thanks to replayrob (for the VLC tip) and DoubleDAZ (for help getting my firewire ports activated, SARA 1.88.22.1) I have some limited PC recording capability from my 8300HD. I have tried various things and found that:

- I can reliably record items recorded on the 8300HD. No live feed. That's really all I wanted anyway.
- CapDVHS does not work with the 8300HD.
- I use VLC to record - it works, but only the latest version - v8.6a.
- Using the Media Information function in VLC I found that any recording with a bit rate over ~15,000kbps gives me dropouts/hiccups over firewire, but the feeds are still recordable. Those same original recordings are flawless displayed though component from the 8300HD. I am using a couple of active firewire extension cables to get a 40 foot connection. Don't know if this is the cause, but I might eventually test that possibility by moving the computer closer to eliminate the extension cables.

Just wanted to report I'm getting similar results to vidguy.

Wide Open West (Cleveland) just pushed out a SARA 1.88.22.1 update last week, and this activated the firewire port on my SA8300HD. I can now use the Firestb drivers + VLC 8.6a to view and save to disk previously recorded material off the SA8300HD. I was able to view and save previously recorded 480i/720p/1080i material, from a variety of channels (NBC, CBS, NFLN, HDNet, DiscHD, StarzHD, ESPN, etc) I'm not having any problems with "copy protection" here. Maybe WOW hasn't flagged it yet, I dunno.

Nothing comes over the firewire during live programming.

Like others have reported CapDVHS crashes a few seconds into recording.

I have a fairly elderly Dell Inspiron 5100 laptop with P4 2.66Ghz processor, 512MB RAM, ATI Radeon 7500 video card, running XP Pro SP2. It records everything with periodic glitches. Probably not enough horsepower in the laptop... It's good enough to get screen caps off of though. My firewire cable is about 10 feet.

I never had to reboot the SA8300HD, nor did it spontaneously reboot while I was screwing around with this. Note that I did have to unplug/replug the firewire cable in the back of the laptop several times to get VLC to see the firewire content again. I also had an orphan VLC process running every now and then that had to be killed. Sometimes when VLC refused to play the firewire material, I had to reboot the laptop to get it back. So in summary, the whole thing is still kinda flakey.

Update: I tried viewing/recording from the SA8300HD to a relatively new Dell Inspiron 6400 Core Duo T7200 2Ghz w/2GB RAM, and this machine exhibits the dropout problem as well.

Update 2: I'm starting to suspect the SA8300HD firewire implementation is the problem here.
a. Samsung SIR-T165 live OTA 1080i via firewire to Inspiron 5100 laptop w/VLC - no video breakups
b. JVC 40K DVHS VCR prerecorded CBS 1080i football to Inspiron 5100 laptop w/VLC - no video breakups
c. Playing prerecorded 1080i HD program from SA8300HD to JCK 40K DVHS VCR via firewire - video breakups recorded on tape, not as severe as the breakups on the PC, but still annoying enough to be unusable.
d. CapDVHS doesn't crash when capturing from the JCK 40K or the Sammy T165, but does crash with the SA8300HD.
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Old 03-12-2007, 09:38 PM
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Wondering if anyone out there has this working with an SA 8240HD. From what I've read, the 8240 is supposed to be almost identical to the 8300, but no analog tuner (digital channels only).

My SA8240HD is running SARA v1.89.18.1 from Cox. I'm unable to get the firestb driver installed. Running XP Home SP2. I ran the firestb MSI, then plugged in the 8240:

4 devices show up:

Tuner AV/C Device
AV/C Panel
2 Unknown devices

The driver installation complains it could not find a proper match for the AV/C Panel device. It picked up the Tuner AV/C Device, but I'm getting this error in the device manager:

"Windows cannot start this hardware device because its configuration information (in the registry) is incomplete or damaged. (Code 19)"

I've disabled both unknown devices...also tried disabling the AV/C Panel. Rebooted, reinstalled, etc...but can't get the Tuner device to work. I haven't tried installing the older meitape.inf file yet but may give that a try.

Any advice appreciated.
Jeff
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidguy View Post

You need to look at the 8300HD diagnostics screen, page 31 "1394 Information". Read the SA 8300 HD Tips & Tricks -- SARA thread for instructions. You can change the channels while watching the diagnostic screen to check various channels. There is a delayed reaction, so wait a few seconds after changing channels. If "free" or "undefined" is shown, you should be able to record that channel.

To use VLC:
- Open VLC
- Choose "File" > "Open Capture Device"
- In the DirectShow tab to the right of "Video device name" click "Refresh List," then choose "Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Tuner Device" from the drop down.
- If you want to capture the stream, click "Stream/Save", go into "settings" and select "Play locally" and "File" and enter a filename ending with .ts. Use the "Browse" button to specify a loacation. Click "OK"
- Click "OK"

I am all good on the PC end, using these instructions. How do I tell it to start to record on the DVR? Do I just press play on the recorded show? Not sure what else to do?

Also, what do I do for a recorded show on the DVR?
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:53 PM
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Figured it out and just recorded American Idol in 1080i, looks GREAT! No stutter at all!!! Now to try the HD pay channels
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Old 03-13-2007, 08:46 PM
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After reading numerous threads, performing my own tests (using 3 different computers and 3 different boxes) and providing my own experience I have come to the conclusion, which most know, that the Scientific Atlanta firewire currently implemented is fubared....

I recently tried both a 4250 and 4200 and had the same problem with video/audio artifacts as my SA8300HD experiences. My test systems at 3 different locations used both a laptop T7600 duo core 2 along with a desktop E6400 duo core.

ATM it is impossible to receive any decent firewire audio/video stream from a SA8300HD (or 4200/4250 for that matter).......

Fringers crossed that Cisco (which on the IP side I do for a living) releases a firmware upgrade to resolve it....till them Im using a QAM HD card to record unencrypted channels....
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