TDC775 Tahoe Pace 700 Series - High Definition DVR - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

I'm not sure what the HDCP warning is - could you explain? .

HDCP is a security protocol used with HDMI monitors.

If there is a problem establishing HDCP, you'll see a dialog to that effect on the screen. I'd like to find out if that dialog is showing up in your situation.


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Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

I currently have my Harman Kardon DVD 22 on component 1 and my Xbox 360 on component 2 - so while I do have the ability to switch to that - it can't be a long term solution since neither my dvd player or xbox 360 has hdmi out capability.

Very temporary. I only need to find out if the dialog shows up on the screen.


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Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

Another thing that's started happening is HORRIBLE tiling/artifacting/sound dropouts on all channels - HD, SD and VoD.

These seem to be related to the signal strength issues you mentioned above.

If you can go into diags, choose page 4, and report the signal level it would be helpful.

Linden
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post #182 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 08:38 AM
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I'll be heading home for lunch soon and will try to get you the signal level when I return - I probably won't have time to mess with the alternative connections until this evening though.

Thank you again for helping out on these forums - if it weren't for that I'd simply have returned the Pace box and kept my Motorola one.

~Bill
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post #183 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindend View Post

HDCP is a security protocol used with HDMI monitors.

If there is a problem establishing HDCP, you'll see a dialog to that effect on the screen. I'd like to find out if that dialog is showing up in your situation.

Does this warning show up on my TV screen or the Pace display? Does it not show up over HDMI and only with other connections? Still somewhat fuzzy on it. Thanks.

~Bill
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post #184 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindend View Post

These seem to be related to the signal strength issues you mentioned above.

If you can go into diags, choose page 4, and report the signal level it would be helpful.

Home for lunch now - I just checked and signal strength being reported is between 2.6 and 2.8 (I went in and checked a couple of times).

I also had time to toss some component cables on and VoD "seems" to work fine over Component 1 - I tried 4-5 various shows and I didn't have any of the prior issues I had over HDMI (shows play for about 15 seconds then the screen goes black and no sound). There were no HDCP error messages at all. Should I try a different HDMI cable? Both that I have are 6 footers but from different manufacturers.

Also if it matters I'm on software/firmware or whatever - version 9.21.

I am using the Moto power cord (same connectors at the one that came with the Pace box) - is that maybe a problem? I assumed a power cord is a power cord is a power cord kinda thing - rather than having to re-fish the new one into my setup.

I am noticing some remote control delay issues like the Moto box but not as bad. Is this normal or could it be my Harmony 880 remote?

~Bill
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post #185 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by lindend View Post

Its ok for you to reboot. However, after you reboot, please check the component outputs and see if you see an HDCP warning when visiting the VOD page (I think you did this earlier and mentioned it was present).

OK. After the first reboot, I still had the problem--no digital channels or VOD. So I did a slow reboot (let it sit for a while unplugged). and then let it run for a half hour after reboot to make sure the TVGuide software fully loaded. Then it worked as it should. I got the digital channels and VOD, and no HDCP messages on component in VOD. But I did get the resolution shifting screen change right after going into VOD again.
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post #186 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

Home for lunch now - I just checked and signal strength being reported is between 2.6 and 2.8 (I went in and checked a couple of times).

That seems reasonable. Please report all the values on page 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

I am noticing some remote control delay issues like the Moto box but not as bad. Is this normal or could it be my Harmony 880 remote?

The 880 does need to be optimized in general (there is an excellent FAQ on doing this in the remote forum), but I'm not sure the interkey delay is what you are referring to.

Are you seeing delays roughly every two minutes or is it more frequent than this?

Linden
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post #187 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindend View Post

That seems reasonable. Please report all the values on page 4.



The 880 does need to be optimized in general (there is an excellent FAQ on doing this in the remote forum), but I'm not sure the interkey delay is what you are referring to.

Are you seeing delays roughly every two minutes or is it more frequent than this?

Some of these values changed slightly while writing them down btw - not sure it matters though:

Tuner 1
Data Yes TSID 35058
Carrier Lock Yes Sym Rate (Kbps) 5361
PCR Lock Yes Pre RS BER 1.07e-04
SNR 35.8 GOOD
Modulation Mode QAM 256
Short Term Errors 60808
Long Term Errors 199538734
Tuned Freq 657000
Signal Level 3.4 (was 2.8 before)
Tuned AGC 40
Avg. Data Rate 8984
Peak Data Rate 9360

I'll try to take note on the key delay issue - but for now there seems to be bigger fish to fry for me than some remote delay.

Please note I edited my prior post to include the info on VoD over component.

~Bill
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post #188 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKen View Post


I also had time to toss some component cables on and VoD "seems" to work fine over Component 1 - I tried 4-5 various shows and I didn't have any of the prior issues I had over HDMI (shows play for about 15 seconds then the screen goes black and no sound). There were no HDCP error messages at all. Should I try a different HDMI cable? Both that I have are 6 footers but from different manufacturers.


If its not too difficult to try a different cable, I'd be interested in seeing the results.
Based on your initial response, it does not seem like an HDCP issue.

Linden
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post #189 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindend View Post

If its not too difficult to try a different cable, I'd be interested in seeing the results.
Based on your initial response, it does not seem like an HDCP issue.

Ok different cable - now the show will run - but I FF too long I get the same black screen/no sound (although if you look at the counter in the VoD menu for that show it appears as if the box thinks it's still running - since it shows how much time has elapsed - so it'll show for example 7 minutes - even though the screen/sound went out at 15 seconds).

Update - still getting the issue on new VoD shows though - some will run some will just black out after 15-30 seconds - doesn't seem like a different HDMI cable made any difference.

Also - still getting horrendous tiling/artifacting/sound dropouts on regular tv - both HD and SD.

~Bill
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post #190 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

Also - still getting horrendous tiling/artifacting/sound dropouts on regular tv - both HD and SD.

The diagnostics indicates lots of errors in the transport stream which will result in macroblocking.

Can you insert a 6dB pad (or a passive splitter) into the feed and see if it helps?

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post #191 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindend View Post

The diagnostics indicates lots of errors in the transport stream which will result in macroblocking.

Can you insert a 6dB pad (or a passive splitter) into the feed and see if it helps?

Not sure what a 6db pad is - but I'll show this to the Armstrong Tech if he gets to my house before the end of the day today.

Any more thoughts on the VoD issues? Having a young son - not having VoD is not an option at my house.

~Bill
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post #192 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 12:43 PM
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Well Armstrong came and just swapped out the box with another Pace one - so far all seems well - hopefully the first box was just flaky.

Thank you again for all of your help Linden.

Quick setup question - any reason to keep the resolution settings at 1080i, 720p and 480p - or should I drop the 1080i since my Samsung DLP is 720p - although I think it can accept 1080i signals.

~Bill
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post #193 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

Quick setup question - any reason to keep the resolution settings at 1080i, 720p and 480p - or should I drop the 1080i since my Samsung DLP is 720p - although I think it can accept 1080i signals.

Its a preference thing. If you like the scaler in your DLP better, enable 1080i. If you think Tahoe scales better than the Samsung, then disable 1080i. The way to tell would be to view 1080i content with both options and see which one is better for you.

Regarding the VOD issues, I don't have a suggestion at this point. We are thinking about it though.

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post #194 of 1510 Old 01-19-2007, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindend View Post

Its a preference thing. If you like the scaler in your DLP better, enable 1080i. If you think Tahoe scales better than the Samsung, then disable 1080i. The way to tell would be to view 1080i content with both options and see which one is better for you.

Regarding the VOD issues, I don't have a suggestion at this point. We are thinking about it though.

Thanks Linden - how exactly do I tell if content is 1080i?

~Bill
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post #195 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wildrock View Post

OK. After the first reboot, I still had the problem--no digital channels or VOD. So I did a slow reboot (let it sit for a while unplugged). and then let it run for a half hour after reboot to make sure the TVGuide software fully loaded. Then it worked as it should. I got the digital channels and VOD, and no HDCP messages on component in VOD. But I did get the resolution shifting screen change right after going into VOD again.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I did lose 2 more HD movie recordings after the reboot. Same as before. I think something is trying to keep me from watching Apocalypse Now Redux. I might have to watch it live.
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post #196 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by wildrock View Post

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I did lose 2 more HD movie recordings after the reboot. Same as before. I think something is trying to keep me from watching Apocalypse Now Redux. I might have to watch it live.

I did - it's worth it - some pretty nifty extra scenes!

~Bill
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post #197 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

Thanks Linden - how exactly do I tell if content is 1080i?

The simplest way is to enable all resolutions in the PowerMenu. Most HD displays have an option to display the incoming resolution (480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i), but that's display specific. You'd have to read the manual, but I find that option very convenient so you probably should find out the remote key that displays this info.

You can also get this info from Tahoe diags if you're using HDMI. Tune to the channel in question, then go into diagnostics. Select the interface page (21), then select HDMI. Near the bottom, you'll see a line that says in resolution. This is the incoming (original resolution). The out means the output resolution that the TDC775 is feeding to your display.

Linden
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post #198 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

I also had time to toss some component cables on and VoD "seems" to work fine over Component 1 - I tried 4-5 various shows and I didn't have any of the prior issues I had over HDMI (shows play for about 15 seconds then the screen goes black and no sound). There were no HDCP error messages at all. Should I try a different HDMI cable? Both that I have are 6 footers but from different manufacturers.

I just realized something. This isn't proof you're not having an HDCP issue. These are the steps you need to follow to rule that out.

1. Use HDMI and go to VOD.
2. When the problem occurs, switch over to component.
3. See if you see the HDCP warning on screen. The dialog will only be up for 30 seconds or so, so you need to switch inputs relatively quickly.

Linden
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post #199 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

Any more thoughts on the VoD issues? Having a young son - not having VoD is not an option at my house.

Questions for both BillKen and wildrock.

1. If both of you stay on the Guide screen for several minutes, do you have any issues?
2. When you use component connections to access VOD, how long has it worked (i.e. minutes, hours)?

I just want to rule a couple of things out.

Linden
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post #200 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 06:21 PM
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Just A Quick Yes Or No Will Do Me,,, Is The Tdc775d, The Same As The One's You Guys Have Been Talking About, That Can Record? Replay ? Has 4 Light Slots On The Right Side,,, All That Seem To Do Nothing For Me? Could It Be Broken?
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post #201 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 06:26 PM
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I'll give it a go Linden and report back.

The new box seems to be better tiling/artifacting-wise on live TV but the VOD issue is still persisting - though not quite as bad as the previous box - it's still there nonetheless.

~Bill
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post #202 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dodgeco View Post

Just A Quick Yes Or No Will Do Me,,, Is The Tdc775d, The Same As The One's You Guys Have Been Talking About, That Can Record? Replay ? Has 4 Light Slots On The Right Side,,, All That Seem To Do Nothing For Me? Could It Be Broken?

Yes my Pace says TDC 775D on the front panel just above the power button.

4 light slots? the ones that indicate play 1 / play 2 / rec 1 / rec 2 ? If that's what you mean - they just show what tuner is playing what show or recording what show. The tuner ones only light when you are actively doing something like changing a channel - and the rec ones only light when you are recording something. If you're just sitting there watching the same channel - none of them will be lit up.

~Bill
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post #203 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindend View Post

Questions for both BillKen and wildrock.

1. If both of you stay on the Guide screen for several minutes, do you have any issues?
2. When you use component connections to access VOD, how long has it worked (i.e. minutes, hours)?

I just want to rule a couple of things out.

Ok so far - leaving it at "Guide" seems fine - no issues for me thus far.

I connected components up again and got VoD to do the black out / no sound thing after 10-15 seconds (on HDMI) and quickly switched to component 2 input and the show was playing fine (without sound of course since I didn't hook up any audio outs) but there was no HDCP warning or anything just playing as if nothing had happened. I swapped to the component input in less than 5 seconds once the hdmi input pic went black.

Like I mentioned before - it very obviously keeps playing - if you return the VoD menu and look at the previously viewed shows it will show exactly how long the show has played - even though the pic and sound went out 15 seconds into it.

Sometimes you can go back and restart the show and it's fine - sometimes you have to continue where you left off and it's fine - sometimes nothing works - but another show will. It's pretty madenning really. Just seams like the HDMI output is just dropping randomly while trying to view VoD shows.

Sorry but I haven't really tried to just use the component inputs for VOD during the day since I have no audio out cables running to my TV (because I use hdmi) and I really don't want to tear my Harman Kardon receiver/DVD out and re-run all the cabling.

If you REALLY REALLY want me to go buy an optical audio cable, reprogram my Harmony 880 (my wife and son do most of the VoD'ing during the day when I'm at work and the remote must control it all or I'll not have a moment's rest at work) and swap the TV over to components for a few days to see if we still have the VoD issue I will though - even though it'll mean no xbox 360 for me.

Let me know Linden and thanks again for your help.


P.S. - for the love of God - WHY is the power button like a lighthouse beacon and the channel/clock display so terribly dim (even on the brightest setting)? It sure would be nice to be able to tone that darn bright blue power button WAY down and the clock display (we use the clock not the channel) WAY up beyond what "high" gives us now. Unless you're within about 4 feet of the box you can't read the clock.

~Bill
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post #204 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindend View Post

The simplest way is to enable all resolutions in the PowerMenu. Most HD displays have an option to display the incoming resolution (480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i), but that's display specific. You'd have to read the manual, but I find that option very convenient so you probably should find out the remote key that displays this info.

You can also get this info from Tahoe diags if you're using HDMI. Tune to the channel in question, then go into diagnostics. Select the interface page (21), then select HDMI. Near the bottom, you'll see a line that says in resolution. This is the incoming (original resolution). The out means the output resolution that the TDC775 is feeding to your display.

Thanks for that info Linden.

~Bill
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post #205 of 1510 Old 01-20-2007, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

Ok so far - leaving it at "Guide" seems fine - no issues for me thus far.

I connected components up again and got VoD to do the black out / no sound thing after 10-15 seconds (on HDMI) and quickly switched to component 2 input and the show was playing fine (without sound of course since I didn't hook up any audio outs) but there was no HDCP warning or anything just playing as if nothing had happened. I swapped to the component input in less than 5 seconds once the hdmi input pic went black.


Ok, that's sufficient for the test I requested. Thanks.



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Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

Sometimes you can go back and restart the show and it's fine - sometimes you have to continue where you left off and it's fine - sometimes nothing works - but another show will. It's pretty madenning really. Just seams like the HDMI output is just dropping randomly while trying to view VoD shows.

BTW, can you time it. Is it exactly 15 seconds each time or does it vary?



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If you REALLY REALLY want me to go buy an optical audio cable,

No. Definitely not! I don't want to be the source of a marital conflict in the BillKen household!


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P.S. - for the love of God - WHY is the power button like a lighthouse beacon

You're not the first one to complain about this (see comments early on in this thread). We've heard the message loud and clear.

Linden
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post #206 of 1510 Old 01-21-2007, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindend View Post

BTW, can you time it. Is it exactly 15 seconds each time or does it vary?

No - it's definately not exactly 15 seconds each time - it varies and a show can run for as long as perhaps a minute before the hdmi output goes away. I'd say 15 seconds or so is a decent average though but I've seen both longer and shorter time spans.

~Bill
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post #207 of 1510 Old 01-21-2007, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

No - it's definately not exactly 15 seconds each time - it varies and a show can run for as long as perhaps a minute before the hdmi output goes away. I'd say 15 seconds or so is a decent average though but I've seen both longer and shorter time spans.

Ok. When this happens with HDMI and VOD again, please turn the monitor on/off and see if that restores video. If it does restore video, see how long it lasts.

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post #208 of 1510 Old 01-21-2007, 09:21 AM
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Hi, I have a Motorola 6412 from Comcast. I was wondering how you like the Pace box compared to the Motorola box. Can anyone provide any screenshots of the diagnostics?

I'm currently running version 71.44 of the i-guide software. With the Pace box, is the remote buffer issue common with the Motorola, a thing of the past? Thanks!
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post #209 of 1510 Old 01-21-2007, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cypherstream View Post

Hi, I have a Motorola 6412 from Comcast. I was wondering how you like the Pace box compared to the Motorola box. Can anyone provide any screenshots of the diagnostics?

I'm currently running version 71.44 of the i-guide software. With the Pace box, is the remote buffer issue common with the Motorola, a thing of the past? Thanks!

So far I prefer the PQ on the Pace vs. the Moto - but Armstrong is all digital - so I'm not experience the analog PQ issues others are. The remote buffer issue is better with the Pace box but still not perfect imho. Still it's better than the Moto. This VoD issue I'm having is really annoying though - as is the power LED brightness and the display LED dimness on the Pace.

If I can I'll try to snap some Diagnostic pics and link them in the next day or so.

~Bill
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post #210 of 1510 Old 01-21-2007, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BillKen View Post

Yes my Pace says TDC 775D on the front panel just above the power button.

4 light slots? the ones that indicate play 1 / play 2 / rec 1 / rec 2 ? If that's what you mean - they just show what tuner is playing what show or recording what show. The tuner ones only light when you are actively doing something like changing a channel - and the rec ones only light when you are recording something. If you're just sitting there watching the same channel - none of them will be lit up.




So; if I push rec and no lights come on I push play and no lights come on , is it broken,,, the manual is not real clear on any of this other than "it will do this and that" What must I do to have it record on the HD...When it does look like its going to record, its says "vcr" will stop if you continue,,, Is "VCR supposed to be the "dvr" and I just am confused?
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