TiVo Series 3 - "Official" Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 10:33 AM
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post #92 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 10:43 AM
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No double box on my Series 3 from CC either. I had selected $5.57 3 day shipping with an estimated delivery date of 9/18 from IL to OR, but to my surprise it showed up this morning. I had it shipped to my office so that someone could sign for it or it wouldn't just sit on my doorstep at home. 5 co-workers gathered around and said "oooh" and "aaah" as I opened it. I think I'm feeling a little ill as well...
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post #93 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 10:44 AM
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. . . $800! Are you kidding me?! I currently have a Comcast DVR and I agree with everyone that the operating systems is so inferior to TIVO's. However, $800 for a piece of hardware?! I know I'll probably get a lot of grief for this post, but I'm sorry TIVO's business model is terrible. They simply do not have Apple's IPOD brand equity to be able to make money off hardware. What they should do is take the strategy of cell phone carriers and essentially sell the units at a loss/discount and lock in subscribers with long term contracts. That would build up customer loyalty especially once people realize what a great system TIVO is. I'd rather stick with my terrible comcast OS for $10 a month rather than pay $800 then an additional $12.95 a month for the service. Just another reason to be bearish on TIVO's stock.
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post #94 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 11:03 AM
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I'm sorry for these newb questions, but I feel I would get a more accurate answer from you guys than a Tivo customer service rep if I called their 877 number.

If you don't buy these things direct from Tivo, can you still get the multi-year plan deals? Say I buy the unit at Circuit City, who do I buy the $299 three-year subscription plan from? Does that issue/option come up during set-up of the Tivo3, or is it only for customers who buy direct from Tivo at time of Series 3 purchase? If the answer is the latter, then if I buy at CC and hook it up, does it ask for my credit card number and bill me monthly?

Also, I notice it has a single antenna input. Does the signal get split within the unit, or does it maintain full, single-line strength to both tuners within the unit? I will not be using this thing with cable, at least not for the foreseeable future, so this is of concern to me.

Thanks guys,
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post #95 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 12:11 PM
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Is this true:?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8417071

Basically I get out of that, that he says the S3 won't do "guide based" recording of QAM cable. True?, can someone elaborate? What about OTA?? I planned to turn off Comcast's HD channels and get my HD OTA since all the HD(TV) I watch is on OTA channels.

Thanks, Scott
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post #96 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 12:17 PM
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for people posting reviews, don't forget to post your location and what cable company you use. I'm curious as to how Houston Time Warner Cable Cards will work with this tivo.

thanks,

tum
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post #97 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Is this true:?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8417071

Basically I get out of that, that he says the S3 won't do "guide based" recording of QAM cable. True?, can someone elaborate? What about OTA?? I planned to turn off Comcast's HD channels and get my HD OTA since all the HD(TV) I watch is on OTA channels.

Thanks, Scott

That is true from what I have read elsewhere. The Tivo Lovers FAQ says that TiVo is hoping to implement the ability to map QAM channels to actual TV stations (or cable guide channels), but this ability does not exist right now.
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post #98 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hongerelli View Post

. . . $800! Are you kidding me?! I currently have a Comcast DVR and I agree with everyone that the operating systems is so inferior to TIVO's. However, $800 for a piece of hardware?! I know I'll probably get a lot of grief for this post, but I'm sorry TIVO's business model is terrible. They simply do not have Apple's IPOD brand equity to be able to make money off hardware. What they should do is take the strategy of cell phone carriers and essentially sell the units at a loss/discount and lock in subscribers with long term contracts. That would build up customer loyalty especially once people realize what a great system TIVO is. I'd rather stick with my terrible comcast OS for $10 a month rather than pay $800 then an additional $12.95 a month for the service. Just another reason to be bearish on TIVO's stock.

dont judge their day 1 pricing as written in stone.

they essentially do what you suggest with their SD units (the series2 )- there is a singificant pent up demand for these boxes and there's enough people willing to buy all of the inital production at the $800 price point. Just read the posts befor eyours.

Once they sell to everyone that wants one for $800 then they'll drop the price. Likely shortly after the holiday season when demand drops down they will allow their constant $150 rebates to this box too and the MSRP will become $650. They'll pick off all the people at that point who want to pay that price point and then they'll drop it again.

The first 14 hour series 1 single tuner SD Tivo box cost well over a grand when it first came out. In a year or 2 it could be had for 200 dollars. Today you can get a second generation SD unti with dual tuners and all the features developed over the past 5 years like multi room viewing for like $30 out of pocket if you want.

THe price will drop, the only question is how fast and how low.

I'll bet you a series 3 that come June 1, 2007 the MSRP (minus any rebates) is no were near $799 for a 250 hour box.
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post #99 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Is this true:?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8417071

Basically I get out of that, that he says the S3 won't do "guide based" recording of QAM cable. True?, can someone elaborate? What about OTA?? I planned to turn off Comcast's HD channels and get my HD OTA since all the HD(TV) I watch is on OTA channels.

Thanks, Scott


part of what the cable card does is tell the Set top box what channel to map the QAM channels to. Without a cablecard installed the guide wont match the QAM linup (channel 100 might really be located on QAM channel 120 for example). The box will be able to match it's quide info to all analog channels and all OTA channels with or without a cablecard.

But to get correct guide info for QAM it will need a cablecard.


If you only want OTA and ANALOG cable you'll be sitting pretty.

But comcast charges ZERO for cablecards so if you want digital cable without HD it will cost you nothing extra for the cablecards to run the box.
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post #100 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelk View Post

part of what the cable card does is tell the Set top box what channel to map the QAM channels to. Without a cablecard installed the guide wont match the QAM linup (channel 100 might really be located on QAM channel 120 for example). The box will be able to match it's quide info to all analog channels and all OTA channels with or without a cablecard.

But to get correct guide info for QAM it will need a cablecard.


If you only want OTA and ANALOG cable you'll be sitting pretty.

But comcast charges ZERO for cablecards so if you want digital cable without HD it will cost you nothing extra for the cablecards to run the box.

You will need to make sure that the channels that you want to receive with the cablecard are channels that you are authorized to receive according to your account/billing. For example, if you happen to get a channel like ESPN-HD, and for some odd reason they broadcast this in the clear, even though it should be subscription-based, you might lose that channel. For channels that are in the clear and are "freely" available to any subscriber, you should still get these OK (like the local HD's).

I had a CC installed in a TV last week that wouldn't pair, and the installer didn't have any extras. He left it in the TV, and I am getting it replaced tomorrow. I am able to tune digital channels like 783 (the local ABC affiliate's HD channel), even though the card isn't properly paired/authorized. Other channels say "NOT AUTHORIZED" even though I actually do subscribe to them.
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post #101 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I might just set a record for my area. After tomorrow, I will have a total of 5 cablecards on my account! Two in TV's, one in my Sony HDDVR, and two in the TiVo...

I hope they bring spares tomorrow in case they can't get one to pair again. I don't want to waste another half day of vacation to wait for the cable guy.
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post #102 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by spiff72 View Post

I might just set a record for my area. After tomorrow, I will have a total of 5 cablecards on my account! Two in TV's, one in my Sony HDDVR, and two in the TiVo...
.


Is this with Comcast? My understanding was only the first one was free, and only then if it was instead of the bundled cable box.
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post #103 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Is this with Comcast? My understanding was only the first one was free, and only then if it was instead of the bundled cable box.

No I am with Charter. None of my CC's are free - they charge $1.50 each per month.
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post #104 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 07:14 PM
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Chicago area Comcast (Hanover Park, IL - Schaumburg head end.)

Cable Card monthly cost - 1st is free, 2nd is $5.99/mo. $35.98 install fee for each card. I was told that self installation is prohibited by 'federal regulation' which I'm 99% sure is a lie. My CC install is scheduled for 10/9... you'd think for $70 they could get out here sooner.
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post #105 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 07:22 PM
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Just got the following email from TiVo. Ordered the unit the very first morning, early in fact. Now I have to see if they'll do Sat delivery, otherwise I have to cancel the Comcast visit for Mon--I just knew this was going to happen...

Quote:


Dear TiVo Customer,

Thank you for your TiVo Store purchase. Unfortunately, due to excessive
order volumes for the TiVo Series3 HD Digital Media Recorder, your
shipment has been delayed. We will be refunding all shipping charges to
your account. The credit should post to your account within 3-7 business
days.

Please be assured we will be shipping your order no later than Friday,
9/15/06. You will receive a shipment confirmation email with the
tracking information at that time. We sincerely apologize for any
inconveniences this may have caused. In the meantime, if you have any further
questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us at (877) 367-8486.

Best regards,

TiVo Customer Support

Does anyone know exactly where TiVo is shipping from? Is it Alviso, or are they drop shipping from somewhere else?
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post #106 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjarmoc View Post

Chicago area Comcast (Hanover Park, IL - Schaumburg head end.)

Cable Card monthly cost - 1st is free, 2nd is $5.99/mo. $35.98 install fee for each card. I was told that self installation is prohibited by 'federal regulation' which I'm 99% sure is a lie. My CC install is scheduled for 10/9... you'd think for $70 they could get out here sooner.


Wow - Charter has never charged me for installation of any of these CC's. They refuse to allow self installs, also. I have also rescheduled tomorrow's appointment twice now, and they have been very easy to deal with. I just called them Wednesday night, and was able to set up an appointment for Friday afternoon.
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post #107 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Just got the following email from TiVo. Ordered the unit the very first morning, early in fact. Now I have to see if they'll do Sat delivery, otherwise I have to cancel the Comcast visit for Mon--I just knew this was going to happen...



Does anyone know exactly where TiVo is shipping from? Is it Alviso, or are they drop shipping from somewhere else?

The TiVoCommunityForum is humming with many upset people who received the same e-mail.

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post #108 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bierboy View Post

The TiVoCommunityForum is humming with many upset people who received the same e-mail.

Yes, I've been following that. I think I've found one locally, and if I have, I call and cancel with TiVo in the AM.
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post #109 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelk View Post

dont judge their day 1 pricing as written in stone.

they essentially do what you suggest with their SD units (the series2 )- there is a singificant pent up demand for these boxes and there's enough people willing to buy all of the inital production at the $800 price point. Just read the posts befor eyours.

Once they sell to everyone that wants one for $800 then they'll drop the price. Likely shortly after the holiday season when demand drops down they will allow their constant $150 rebates to this box too and the MSRP will become $650. They'll pick off all the people at that point who want to pay that price point and then they'll drop it again.

The first 14 hour series 1 single tuner SD Tivo box cost well over a grand when it first came out. In a year or 2 it could be had for 200 dollars. Today you can get a second generation SD unti with dual tuners and all the features developed over the past 5 years like multi room viewing for like $30 out of pocket if you want.

THe price will drop, the only question is how fast and how low.

I'll bet you a series 3 that come June 1, 2007 the MSRP (minus any rebates) is no were near $799 for a 250 hour box.


Unfortunately, TIVO is targeting early adopters which most of the people on this forum are (especially since it's only compatible with a cable card, most regular people would have no clue what a cable card is). I think TIVO is drastically overestimating the "pent-up" demand for these units especially at $800. I would wager most of the market is already saturated with HD recorders from content providers such as comcast. When they see the price I highly doubt that TIVO will capture many of those people who only pay $10 a month for the service (even though the service sucks!). $12.95 a month on top of $800? I really don't think so. What happens when comcast DVR's utilize the TIVO software later in the year? POOOOFH! there goes the demand.

I love TIVO so much but they just don't get it. My point here is TIVO's competitive advantage is the OS. I'm sure the price will eventually drop, but a year is like an eternity in the business world. That's way too much time for competitors to come in, which they already have, and make improvements. Look at how Apple has a superior OS to Microsoft, but Microsoft realized that making money in the hardware biz was a losing strategy and they saturated the market with their OS and we know who won that war. Yes, TIVO's other DVR prices are low, but that hasn't stimulated demand and Wall Street has pummelled TIVO's share price (still in the pits). They seem to be making headway by signing licensing agreements, but the agreements are way too favorable for the content providers. Again, I reiterate that they just need to saturate the market with TIVO's OS by essentially giving the hardware away. I hope TIVO figures it out, because they are the BEST.
Message to TIVO: It's the OS stupid!
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post #110 of 6262 Old 09-14-2006, 11:23 PM
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hong,

The simple reality is that HDTV DVR technology is expensive. It costs a lot to build the box and it costs a lot to make it work.

If you tamper with the Comcast 641x DVR from Motorola, you get hit with a ~$720 charge on your bill. If you want to buy the HR20 HDTV DVR from DirecTV, the price is about $810 (the quoted $399 is their base rental price -- you don't own it). If you live in Canada -- where several providers allow you to buy the DVR --- the cost of the SA DVR with 160Gb runs around $500. The Series3 has more hardware and software functionality built-in than all of these products.

According to reports, Best Buy pays about $500 for each Tivo Series3. That's probably not far off Tivo's build cost. Assuming that $500 is the wholesale price for all large orders, then you should definitely see it available for less from Internet vendors after the product is in wider distribution. Depending on how demand is in November, we may see Tivo offer the $150 mail-in rebate for Series3, just as they did for Series2 boxes. That said, I think it would be unrealistic to expect a HDTV DVR with comparable hardware at <$400 in the next year, simply because these boxes are so expensive to build.

I don't think there's much chance that Tivo is making money on this box by selling it at $500 to Best Buy, although they may make money on Series3 units ordered directly from them. I would wager that Tivo breaks even or loses a small amount on sales to retailers, and turns a small profit on sales through its own site.
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post #111 of 6262 Old 09-15-2006, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bierboy View Post

The TiVoCommunityForum is humming with many upset people who received the same e-mail.

Picked one up at Best Buy Santa Rosa CA, there's one left in case anyone is interested.
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post #112 of 6262 Old 09-15-2006, 01:09 AM
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Picked one up at Best Buy Santa Rosa CA, there's one left in case anyone is interested.

Picked one up at Fry's Electronics in north Phoenix, AZ on Thunderchicken Rd. this afternoon. They had 6 on the shelf when I went in and 5 when I left. Probably won't be any hanging around too long though since nowhere else in town seems to have them on the shelves yet.
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post #113 of 6262 Old 09-15-2006, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dbburns View Post


If you don't buy these things direct from Tivo, can you still get the multi-year plan deals? Say I buy the unit at Circuit City, who do I buy the $299 three-year subscription plan from? Does that issue/option come up during set-up of the Tivo3, or is it only for customers who buy direct from Tivo at time of Series 3 purchase? If the answer is the latter, then if I buy at CC and hook it up, does it ask for my credit card number and bill me monthly?

Also, I notice it has a single antenna input. Does the signal get split within the unit, or does it maintain full, single-line strength to both tuners within the unit? I will not be using this thing with cable, at least not for the foreseeable future, so this is of concern to me.

Thanks guys,
Dave

Hi Dave...

I bought my S3 yesterday at Best Buy, not through Tivo. During setup, you get a screen for account activation. You can either go to the website they specify, or call them. I went to the website, and that's where I was given the pricing options...I chose the 3 years for $299...adds up to roughly $8 per month. And yes, Tivo will take your credit card.

As for the tuners, yes, one input for antenna, one for cable. But the antenna input feeds dual tuners, and using OTA I get great signals on both (all digital in my case).

HD Dude

Sorry, if it's not in HD, I won't watch it!
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post #114 of 6262 Old 09-15-2006, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Yes, I've been following that. I think I've found one locally, and if I have, I call and cancel with TiVo in the AM.

Good luck cancelling your order. I ordered from Tivo, and then ordered another from Circuit City (and got it yesterday). When I called to cancel the Tivo order (the same day that I ordered it), they said they had no way to cancel it, and my best option would be to refuse delivery and then call and get an RMA number.

It was supposed to ship yesterday, but I haven't gotten any shipment notification yet (or one of those "delay" emails).
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post #115 of 6262 Old 09-15-2006, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by spiff72 View Post

Good luck cancelling your order. I ordered from Tivo, and then ordered another from Circuit City (and got it yesterday). When I called to cancel the Tivo order (the same day that I ordered it), they said they had no way to cancel it, and my best option would be to refuse delivery and then call and get an RMA number.

It was supposed to ship yesterday, but I haven't gotten any shipment notification yet (or one of those "delay" emails).

Yeah, I figured that may happen, getting ready to call them in about 30 mins.
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post #116 of 6262 Old 09-15-2006, 08:46 AM
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TCF is reporting telephone hold times are 30 minutes or more. Must be a lot of folks trying to cancel or find out when they'll ship.

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post #117 of 6262 Old 09-15-2006, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bierboy View Post

TCF is reporting telephone hold times are 30 minutes or more. Must be a lot of folks trying to cancel or find out when they'll ship.

I just called and the whole phone call took less than 10 mins, start to finish. I must have got lucky.
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post #118 of 6262 Old 09-15-2006, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

hong,

The simple reality is that HDTV DVR technology is expensive. It costs a lot to build the box and it costs a lot to make it work.

If you tamper with the Comcast 641x DVR from Motorola, you get hit with a ~$720 charge on your bill. If you want to buy the HR20 HDTV DVR from DirecTV, the price is about $810 (the quoted $399 is their base rental price -- you don't own it). If you live in Canada -- where several providers allow you to buy the DVR --- the cost of the SA DVR with 160Gb runs around $500. The Series3 has more hardware and software functionality built-in than all of these products.

According to reports, Best Buy pays about $500 for each Tivo Series3. That's probably not far off Tivo's build cost. Assuming that $500 is the wholesale price for all large orders, then you should definitely see it available for less from Internet vendors after the product is in wider distribution. Depending on how demand is in November, we may see Tivo offer the $150 mail-in rebate for Series3, just as they did for Series2 boxes. That said, I think it would be unrealistic to expect a HDTV DVR with comparable hardware at <$400 in the next year, simply because these boxes are so expensive to build.

I don't think there's much chance that Tivo is making money on this box by selling it at $500 to Best Buy, although they may make money on Series3 units ordered directly from them. I would wager that Tivo breaks even or loses a small amount on sales to retailers, and turns a small profit on sales through its own site.

bfdtv,

If you don't tamper with the comcast DVR they give it to you for FREE and charge you for the service. Sorry, but $800 plus $12.95 a month on top of that vs FREE and $10 a month. Not very compelling.
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post #119 of 6262 Old 09-15-2006, 10:27 AM
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Sorry, but $800 plus $12.95 a month on top of that vs FREE and $10 a month. Not very compelling.

It's compelling to me.
  1. Better picture on SD and HD channels with Series3 Tivo (verified).
  2. Unmatched reliability of recording - it always records the right programs at the right time.
  3. Twice the built-in HDTV recording capacity, with an eSATA port for drive expansion.
  4. Seamless integration of off-air digital channels into guide with digital cable channels.
  5. Faster and more responsive interface and DVR functions.
  6. Much faster and easier commercial skipping - includes 30-sec skip and auto-skipback on FFW, with instant response (never any lag) on all DVR functions
  7. Very intuitive to use -- contributes to high WAF.
  8. Aesthetically pleasing hardware and software design ---- makes for very high WAF
  9. Includes the best remote I've seen for DVR
  10. Eliminates frustrations associated with cable company DVR to create a more pleasant and relaxing TV experience.
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post #120 of 6262 Old 09-15-2006, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by hongerelli View Post

bfdtv,
If you don't tamper with the comcast DVR they give it to you for FREE and charge you for the service. Sorry, but $800 plus $12.95 a month on top of that vs FREE and $10 a month. Not very compelling.

Then you are not a big enuff Tivo fan.

And neither am I. I'm going to wait it out for the Comcast dvr with Tivo software

WeÂre doomed. It will never work
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