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post #271 of 18700 Old 01-10-2007, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

Does the 8300 need to be Off?

I'm sorry - it should be powered and on.
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post #272 of 18700 Old 01-11-2007, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post

You can you the left/right arrows to jump in 15min increments in an OnDemand Show. Only you might not understand this feature at 1st as when you press the Right Arrow the Info banner pops up and displays Ch1 00:00:00, press again and Ch2 00:15:00, Ch3 00:30:00, etc. When you have to jump spot you want press select and you will be jumped to this segment. I am not sure what the Ch has to do with it. It is a neat feature. The Left Arrow starts at the end or on a 2 hour movie CH9 02:00:00 was 1st to display.

I suspect the Ch is for Chapter. This is like a DVD recorder where it automatically puts in chapter marks if you want at set intervals. By default they are 5 minutes and when you hit ">>|" button (= next chapter of DVD) it will jump in 5 miinute increments of recorded stuff or to the actual next chapter on prerecorded. So they are calling each 15 minutes a new chapter by default. I can see future possibilities of making the chapter lengths user defined or for movies the same as on a prerecorded DVD.

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post #273 of 18700 Old 01-11-2007, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post

... I tried out Navigator some more this evening on my SA2100 ... I still think they need to work on speed as it really is slow and you think it is locked up while Loading seems to come up almost every time you do anything, even with the basic IPG.

Sounds as if the software is too large to be held in the local memory of your SA2100, so that some subroutines have to be downloaded every time they're used. Let's hope some other SA models have more memory.

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post #274 of 18700 Old 01-11-2007, 11:06 AM
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any updates on launch schedule for South East, NC perhaps?
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post #275 of 18700 Old 01-11-2007, 12:32 PM
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Wonder if Diana or someone from TWC will let us sara uses know when we will see Navigator and bid goodye to sara. Greensboro NC-SARA 187.27
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post #276 of 18700 Old 01-11-2007, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

I haven't read the backstory on this but I do know there is a Dolby Digital issue with the SA8300 and some HDTV sets (e.g. the Sharp Aquos) when fed via HDMI.

Since the HDTV says it can't receive DD5.1 via HDMI, the SA8300 shuts down all audio outputs to standard PCM 2-channel stereo. This means on both the HDMI audio path as well as the optical audio path to your receiver.

The solution (if this is your problem) is to substitute an HDMI-to-DVI cable for connecting the SA8300 to your HDTV (if your set has a DVI input), or get two HDMI-to-HDMI cables and join them with a pair of HDMI-to-DVI adapters (if your set does not have a DVI input but only an HDMI input), so as to eliminate the audio part of the HDMI signal path. That way the SA8300 is not bothered by the fact that the HDTV cannot accept DD5.1 over HDMI and will simply do whatever you tell it.

And of course you should then "force" Dolby Digital audio output in the General Settings (press Settings twice to get there), navigating to "AUDIO: DIGITAL OUT" and then moving over to select "DOLBY DIGITAL".

This combination of steps will cause Dolby Digital out to your receiver (which is obviously what you are listening to, not the speakers in the set) and still provide digital video (HDMI-to-DVI or HDMI-to-DVI-to-HDMI) to the HDTV. The downside, of course, is that there will now be NO audio delivered to your HDTV for its speakers, but I don't think you're concerned about that.

If this is your problem, then this is your solution. Just a quirk of the SA8300 and some HDTV sets.

P.S. - one other "solution" is to use component video connections from SA8300 to HDTV instead of HDMI. But depending on your set and your desires, this may be a non-starter.

Just to update this (it is on page 3 of this thread). I tried this out. Using a couple of HDMI to DVI adapters. Didn't work. Still can't get a DD signal to my receiver when using the HDMI cable to my TV. I can get a DD signal to my receiver using component cables (but it isn't a realistic option for me or at least one that I want to use). I sent an email to TW Nebraska about it to see if they have a solution.

With the old Passport software I was able to shut off the audio feed through the HDMI cable and send DD to my receiver through coax or optical. It must not be an option with Navigator or at least I haven't found a way to do it.
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post #277 of 18700 Old 01-11-2007, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dorny423 View Post

...tried ... Using a couple of HDMI to DVI adapters. Didn't work. Still can't get a DD signal to my receiver when using the HDMI cable to my TV...

This suggested work-around was mentioned in another thread recently. You are the first I have seen verify that the HDMI signal does pass unmolested across a HDMI-DVI -- DVI-HDMI adapter coupling. Before I write it off completely, I just wanted to check that all the immediate action drills were performed [hard-reset / TV STB receiver and everything else completely unplugged before bringing anything back up].

v/r,
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post #278 of 18700 Old 01-11-2007, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dorny423 View Post

Just to update this (it is on page 3 of this thread). I tried this out. Using a couple of HDMI to DVI adapters. Didn't work. Still can't get a DD signal to my receiver when using the HDMI cable to my TV. I can get a DD signal to my receiver using component cables (but it isn't a realistic option for me or at least one that I want to use). I sent an email to TW Nebraska about it to see if they have a solution.

With the old Passport software I was able to shut off the audio feed through the HDMI cable and send DD to my receiver through coax or optical. It must not be an option with Navigator or at least I haven't found a way to do it.

I had to revert to Component cables to get Dolby Digital Back. No combination of audio settings or HDMI connections could produce Dolby Digital. Sigh...
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post #279 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 11:26 AM
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What about HDMI switching through an HDCP compliant A/V receiver? I am able to do this with the latest version of Passport. Will Navigator kill this for me or is it HDCP compliant and does it support switching?
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post #280 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

What about HDMI switching through an HDCP compliant A/V receiver? I am able to do this with the latest version of Passport. Will Navigator kill this for me or is it HDCP compliant and does it support switching?

I believe that's function of hardware. i.e. the chip in the 8300HD. If it didn't work with your previous software, it won't work with Nav.
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post #281 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I believe that's function of hardware. i.e. the chip in the 8300HD. If it didn't work with your previous software, it won't work with Nav.

So since it does now, then it will with the new software? I hope so.
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post #282 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I believe that's function of hardware. i.e. the chip in the 8300HD. If it didn't work with your previous software, it won't work with Nav.

Pepar, I've seen lots of indications that it is not totally a hardware function and that software updates have "broken" HDCP. Also, I think that the issue has also been related to the particular receiver design. Some (Denon for example) cause problems while others (Sony) do not.

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post #283 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Pepar, I've seen lots of indications that it is not totally a hardware function and that software updates have "broken" HDCP. Also, I think that the issue has also been related to the particular receiver design. Some (Denon for example) cause problems while others (Sony) do not.

I guess it's that the hardware - HDMI chip(set) - needs to support it, and then the software must as well.
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post #284 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Pepar, I've seen lots of indications that it is not totally a hardware function and that software updates have "broken" HDCP. Also, I think that the issue has also been related to the particular receiver design. Some (Denon for example) cause problems while others (Sony) do not.

That's probably true, but it makes absolutely no sense (to me) whatsoever. The HDMI and HDCP protocols should be implemented entirely in the transceivers, other than the host saying to the chip something like "I'm going to be transmitting 'Copy Never' content now." But if that were true, there wouldn't be all of these incompatibilities.
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Originally Posted by Dorny423 View Post

Just to update this (it is on page 3 of this thread)...

BTW--the number of posts displayed per page is a user option, so "page 3" doesn't mean much. On the upper right of each post is a post number to which you can refer, which is also a link to the post, if you want to make the reference a link. Just FYI.

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post #285 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 01:10 PM
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I believe I read that HDMI chips did not know about "repeaters" in that the source could not "see through" the display to the AVR and pass 5.1 even though the display could only reproduce 2.0. I do not know if that's been fixed.
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post #286 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I believe I read that HDMI chips did not know about "repeaters" in that the source could not "see through" the display to the AVR and pass 5.1 even though the display could only reproduce 2.0. I do not know if that's been fixed.

Currently it works for me. I have the 8300HD with Passport software running to my Pioneer VSX-84TXsi to my TV all via HDMI. Picture and sound all transfer perfectly. I get 5.1 audio to the receiver ver HDMI as well.
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post #287 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

Currently it works for me. I have the 8300HD with Passport software running to my Pioneer VSX-84TXsi to my TV all via HDMI. Picture and sound all transfer perfectly. I get 5.1 audio to the receiver ver HDMI as well.

HDMI from the 8300HD to the receiver and then on to the display?
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post #288 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 02:03 PM
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Sure seems there's quite a bit of voodoo here.

Uh, DVI is ONLY video, so as soon as you go HDMI to DVI, audio is gone.

Pepar you are close, HDMI is a 2 way protocol. From the source, it queries the next device to see if it has any multi-channel decoding equipment. If not, it will only send PCM audio down that HDMI line. The emphasis is next device, not some device a few connections farther. Nothing is "broken" it apparently works as documented. Which is not to say it's impossible to change, but I highly doubt they'd ever change this, their focus seems to be on an ability to pass some nice buzz words down the line (TrueColor, TrueAudio). You know, the kind of stuff you need test equipment to tell is actually happening (that was very editorial, BTW!)

Passport (or SARA or MDN) have nothing to do with multi-channel audio or in preventing it. What IS true is that there was a recent "change." WITH the current 2.5.066, when one chooses Dolby Digital as the preferred output port, the 8300 will actually shut off audio through the HDMI port. HOWEVER, if one DOES select HDMI, audio will still flow out the optical/co-ax port. Prior, it didn't matter what one chose for the output port, all things were possible. I actually prefer it this way, it's slightly less work for me late at night when I want to ditch my AVR for just the TV speakers. Now I can leave HDMI audio enabled ON THE TV and get nothing as my 8300 is set for Dolby Digital. I shut off my AVR and change the 8300 to HDMI and bingo, PCM audio through the TV speakers. With the older software on the 8300, I also had to turn TV speakers on and off.

Of course, the last paragraph speaks to a TWC system; as we know, with the same software, rev, and 8300 STB, things CAN be different in different cable systems. So it MAY be that what does or doesn't get turned on or off at the 8300 could be different even with the same software running on it!

Time Warner NYC (Man North Head End) - 8742HD DVR ODN 5.2.0_9

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post #289 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Of course, the last paragraph speaks to a TWC system; as we know, with the same software, rev, and 8300 STB, things CAN be different in different cable systems.

It only applies to YOUR TWC system! It does not necessarily apply to other TWC systems.

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post #290 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Pepar you are close, HDMI is a 2 way protocol. From the source, it queries the next device to see if it has any multi-channel decoding equipment. If not, it will only send PCM audio down that HDMI line. The emphasis is next device, not some device a few connections farther. Nothing is "broken" it apparently works as documented. Which is not to say it's impossible to change, but I highly doubt they'd ever change this, their focus seems to be on an ability to pass some nice buzz words down the line (TrueColor, TrueAudio). You know, the kind of stuff you need test equipment to tell is actually happening (that was very editorial, BTW!)

nicholc2 posted that he runs HDMI from 8300HD to AVR and then on to his display. Isn't the 8300HD is "querying" the display, which is TWO components away, for its video display capabilities and then sending video through the AVR to the display? (The AVR has no video display capabilities.) But yet those who've connected the 8300HD to their display and then on to their AVR get no 5.1 from their AVR because their display only reproduces 2.0. In this case, the 8300HD is NOT talking to the AVR for its capabilities. For the One Wire To Bind Them All to be that dumb is, well . . dumb.
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post #291 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

nicholc2 posted that he runs HDMI from 8300HD to AVR and then on to his display. Isn't the 8300HD is "querying" the display, which is TWO components away, for its video display capabilities and then sending video through the AVR to the display? (The AVR has no video display capabilities.) But yet those who've connected the 8300HD to their display and then on to their AVR get no 5.1 from their AVR because their display only reproduces 2.0. In this case, the 8300HD is NOT talking to the AVR for its capabilities. For the One Wire To Bind Them All to be that dumb is, well . . dumb.

In both case the 8300 is mixing its audio as specified by the immediately downstream device's capability. With the 8300 connected to the AVR, that's the AVR, who truthfully tells it that it can do 5.1 channel audio so that's what the 8300 sends it. In the case of (strangely) running HDMI from the STB into the television and from there into an AVR, the 8300 queries the immediately downstream device (the television) and finds out that it can only do 2.0 or 2.1 audio and that's what it mixes.

Does anyone run component+coax-or-optical-5.1 into their television then both of these out into their AVRs? Is that even possible with any known television? Why is it that people expect for it to be possible using HDMI?

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post #292 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

BTW--the number of posts displayed per page is a user option, so "page 3" doesn't mean much. On the upper right of each post is a post number to which you can refer, which is also a link to the post, if you want to make the reference a link. Just FYI.

Sorry, didn't even see that up there.
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post #293 of 18700 Old 01-12-2007, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

HDMI from the 8300HD to the receiver and then on to the display?

Yes, works like a charm. Very nice to be able to run everything through the receiver. I have a Pioneer VSX-84TXsi, btw.

Also, in response to Riverside_Guy's post, at least in my case I can output the sound as HDMI or digital and it still goes through HDMI. I can verify this on my receiver by hooking up an optical cable and switching between the two on the DVR and the receiver.
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post #294 of 18700 Old 01-13-2007, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

It only applies to YOUR TWC system! It does not necessarily apply to other TWC systems.

Yes that sure could be the case, I probably should have emphasized "location" more.

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post #295 of 18700 Old 01-14-2007, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

Also, in response to Riverside_Guy's post, at least in my case I can output the sound as HDMI or digital and it still goes through HDMI. I can verify this on my receiver by hooking up an optical cable and switching between the two on the DVR and the receiver.

Might be an idea to take the 2-3 minutes to list what you have in your sig. I think there are 3 key data items, which STB, what software is running on it, and what cable/satellite/telco company and location.

Like I said, only when I set Dolby Digital on the 8300 does my HDMI go silent for audio. Which is my preferred choice (heaven knows how many other "we have no choice" options actually make folks angry).

Time Warner NYC (Man North Head End) - 8742HD DVR ODN 5.2.0_9

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post #296 of 18700 Old 01-14-2007, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post

To check you version of Navigator.

Unfortunately, that is very SARA-esque, though we use the Pause button on the remote. With SARA we can use the B button to fade the display from a black background to transparent.

Cheers, Dave
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post #297 of 18700 Old 01-14-2007, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post

To check you version of Navigator.

1. Power on Box and Tv.

2. Press and hold "Select button" on remote or box. Release when the Message light on the box starts to flash.

3. Press the "Down Arrow" on remote or box.

4. This will bring up the Diag Screens, they will be overlaid on the program you are watching. Makes it hard to read, so you can Power off the box and the screens will be displayed on a black screen.

5. Use the arrows to move from page to page of the Diag Screens.

6. Pg 12 of my SA2100 has Software Versions.

7. The 4th like labeled Res: is your version of Navigator.

Mine is 2.3.11Z-ptv October 11, 2006 9:01:42am

8. Exit will take you out of the Diag Screens


Mine is 2.3.15AA-ptv Nov 27 2006, 17:26:33

I don't know if they have tried another update since the failed one last week. It really made a lot of people mad, I was at work so it didn't bother me but I did notice the box was frozen before I left for work at 4:45 AM. Most people didn't get it straightened out till around 8 that morning or at least that is what others have told me.

They have updated things since Nov 27th so I don't know if the date on there is relevant. I have been home when they pushed updates out since then. On the DVR the most noticable thing is that they have a warning if you are running out of room. I don't think they had this before but I may not have come close (I don't remember for sure).
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post #298 of 18700 Old 01-14-2007, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post

Going on 3 days of using Navigator on my SA 2100.

I will have to say I am not impressed. The Find Shows feature which is what they are telling me is such a great thing is really a joke. You will learn a whole new appreciation for being patient as it is so slow. The Loading message gets really old after about 3 minutes of trying to find a show. You get results for a show title but then when you select it to find the show times , there are no show times. Then you press C to go back to search and Loading pops up again. This is a never ending circle and I finally gave up. Since are not displayed by show time instead they are alphabetical. Since every result I got was in the future by days, hours, or no times at all. I just went back to the normal IPG which also gave me Loading. Navigator must be a huge application as there are so many memory swaps going on. I sure hope they cache some of this on the hd of my 8300 when it gets upgraded. I see why they need to go to SDV to get bandwidth, if all the boxes are constantly having to hit the servers just to get IPG data.

I have still not gotten warm and fuzzy with the colors. The blues just make your eyes hurt when you are trying to read it for a period of time. We used Passport default colors, but even the Ice Blue scheme is not this in your face blue. The fonts they selected is not very easy to read either. Some of the characters are not even the same width as others. It really looks like some junior high science project where the divided the class up into teams for different parts of the application. That might explain why C is exit sometime and Exit is others, or a combination of the 2. There is no real common flow in the Advanced features Didn't they have a working Passport and SARA box to refer to when they designed this thing.

I understand the upgrade that Lincoln got last week that bricked so many DVRs was rolled back. Does anyone from Lincoln know that to be a fact.

I was told by a rep here in KC how to get to the diag screen to check your version. I will put that in a different post.

You are right the find a show feature is bad. My loading times aren't as drastic with the 8300 HD though.

The one thing I am really starting to miss is the ability to hit a button on the remote and switch from normal to zoom (or stretch). With this you have to go through the menu to change it and then through the menu again to change it back. Unless there is something I am missing and the button changed.
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post #299 of 18700 Old 01-14-2007, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by CANNON-FODDER View Post

This suggested work-around was mentioned in another thread recently. You are the first I have seen verify that the HDMI signal does pass unmolested across a HDMI-DVI -- DVI-HDMI adapter coupling. Before I write it off completely, I just wanted to check that all the immediate action drills were performed [hard-reset / TV STB receiver and everything else completely unplugged before bringing anything back up].

v/r,
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I have since tried any number of combinations of hooking it up, powering equipment up and booting the box. Nothing worked. I am using component for the time being I guess. I sent off an email to TW Nebraska if I don't get a responce in a few days I will call them about it and see if they are going to resolve it or keep it how it is. Like I said before there wasn't an issue with this with the passport software so it isn't a TV, cable box or audio receiver issue it is in the Navigator software.
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post #300 of 18700 Old 01-14-2007, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post

I use the composite connections as I didn't want to spend the bucks for a HDMI cable. Is it really worth the expense, as TWC will only provide composite cables when installing HD in your home.

And I thought Navigator was to provide more compliance with new laws. I thought by law they are required to have a working DMI or HDMI connection along with 1394 support. So what I am hearing Navigator doesn't support either.

The HDMI works. I just can't send a Dolby Digital signal to my receiver when I hook the HDMI up directly to my TV. I don't have a receiver that has HDMI so running the HDMI through my receiver and then to the TV wasn't an option. If I had such a receiver there probably wouldn't be a problem.
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