Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 190 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 3Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5671 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 06:07 AM
Advanced Member
 
Crazywoody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Posts: 880
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Nothing here yet and it was asked about at the display booth during the State Fair. The reps didn't even know what Navigator was! TWC has some of the worst trained and technologically impaired reps working for them. I mean, really, a requirement should be basic knowledge of the product. I just hope the RoadRunner and Digital Phone never get as bad as the cable service!

I'm getting a bad feeling about us being one of the first Sara systems going Navigator.Can you say Nebraska, Lincoln. Sara 1.89.24.1 Greensboro NC
Crazywoody is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5672 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 06:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
xnappo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazywoody View Post

I'm getting a bad feeling about us being one of the first Sara systems going Navigator.Can you say Nebraska, Lincoln. Sara 1.89.24.1 Greensboro NC

Nothing here in Austin yet. I am not nearly as worried as I was 6 months ago though. I am looking forward to a better search, favorites in the guide and a conflict resolution screen - three features that have been missing from SARA for a long time.

xnappo
xnappo is offline  
post #5673 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 07:13 AM
Member
 
bsquare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Las Vegas Strip
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Nothing here in Austin yet. I am not nearly as worried as I was 6 months ago though. I am looking forward to a better search, favorites in the guide and a conflict resolution screen - three features that have been missing from SARA for a long time.

xnappo

You're gonna lose a lot more than you'll gain. I LOVE the manual recording & variety of recording options - I can always search for a show on my PC using a real keyboard. Plus Sara is rock solid reliable - that's the #1 priority.
bsquare is offline  
post #5674 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 09:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BenJF3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Central New York (Syracuse DMA)
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

Good post Ben!

I was wondering, why are the Digital Phone and Road Runner services seemingly better than the cable TV part?

Jack

Well, for one the Internet and Phone are basically "fixed" services. What I mean by that is each has it's own dedicated portion of bandwidth and there are rarely changes to the service. The cable on the other hand constantly requires shuffling channels, grooming the signal, and using SDV in order to make room for more content and fit more into a limited amount of bandwidth. It's not without it's challenges. Then there are also the retransmission agreements and other content related problems like lacking certain networks. I can grant some amount of leeway over those things. However, the Navigator debacle is a whole different situation. This never should have happened. They never should have dumped such bug ridden software upon the subs. My main point was that if they could get their act together and deliver a cable product as good as they deliver the phone and Internet, then I wouldn't even be considering a provider switch for my video service right now.

8/30/2013 - Time Warner Liberation Day!
BenJF3 is offline  
post #5675 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 10:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
Crazywoody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Posts: 880
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsquare View Post

You're gonna lose a lot more than you'll gain. I LOVE the manual recording & variety of recording options - I can always search for a show on my PC using a real keyboard. Plus Sara is rock solid reliable - that's the #1 priority.

I agree.SARA is solid as Fort Knox.Great recording options and have only had one missed recording going on 3 years.Could use better search but I have no main grips about SARA. SARA 1,89.24.1 Greensboro NC
Crazywoody is offline  
post #5676 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 10:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BenJF3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Central New York (Syracuse DMA)
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazywoody View Post

I agree.SARA is solid as Fort Knox.Great recording options and have only had one missed recording going on 3 years.Could use better search but I have no main grips about SARA. SARA 1,89.24.1 Greensboro NC

Exactly, which begs the question why not just give SARA a facelift? I posed this way back. The whole idea for Navigator, according to Time Warner, was to be able to roll out new features and updates faster. In other words, not wait on a third party vendor. Yea, that worked out really swell! People are still waiting for Navigator to just work consistently after two years!!!

SARA has been a solid performer. The only things I have issue with are search, customization, and yes, it's butt ugly.

8/30/2013 - Time Warner Liberation Day!
BenJF3 is offline  
post #5677 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 11:15 AM
Member
 
bsquare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Las Vegas Strip
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Butt Ugly?...Perhaps, but she has a nice body!

Actually the Boardwalk scheme in purple is kinda cool. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
bsquare is offline  
post #5678 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 11:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
strutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Statesville,NC
Posts: 1,510
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Nothing here yet and it was asked about at the display booth during the State Fair. The reps didn't even know what Navigator was! TWC has some of the worst trained and technologically impaired reps working for them. I mean, really, a requirement should be basic knowledge of the product.


its called plausible deniability.

Let the awe and mystery of a journey unlike any other begin
SharpLC70LE735U,SonyKDSR60XBR2,KlipschSynergyIII,PanasonicDMPDT210,Oppo981,DenonAVR683,Harmony880,MDN v3.2.0-5

strutter is offline  
post #5679 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 11:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
strutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Statesville,NC
Posts: 1,510
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazywoody View Post

I'm getting a bad feeling about us being one of the first Sara systems going Navigator.Can you say Nebraska, Lincoln. Sara 1.89.24.1 Greensboro NC


i went from SARA to Passport to Navigator all within a span of 2 months. aside from getting used to each ones peculiarities it was fairly smooth.

BTW the reason for the changes is that we were adelphia (SARA) then TW took over and changed it to Passport shortly after it changed again to Navigator.

Let the awe and mystery of a journey unlike any other begin
SharpLC70LE735U,SonyKDSR60XBR2,KlipschSynergyIII,PanasonicDMPDT210,Oppo981,DenonAVR683,Harmony880,MDN v3.2.0-5

strutter is offline  
post #5680 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 12:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BenJF3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Central New York (Syracuse DMA)
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by strutter View Post

its called plausible deniability.

Maybe so, but I call it not knowing your ass from a hole in the ground.

I'd like to think some probably know of it, but also know what a disaster it's been. Remember that at these booths they are pushing service. They may not want to frighten off potential subs by saying "Yea, Navigator will be here SOON!"

8/30/2013 - Time Warner Liberation Day!
BenJF3 is offline  
post #5681 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 12:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
strutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Statesville,NC
Posts: 1,510
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
i almost became one of those door to door TW reps when i lost my job. i'd have been real good at it too. actually i'd have probably been fired for knowing to much.
they get a pretty good deal, free cable , internet and phone but only about $10 per hour. they have to use their own vehicle and with gas at $4 + per gallon me and my pick up truck didnt think the pay was good enough. of course i'm still unemployed so if i saw that ad in the paper again i'd probably jump on it.

Let the awe and mystery of a journey unlike any other begin
SharpLC70LE735U,SonyKDSR60XBR2,KlipschSynergyIII,PanasonicDMPDT210,Oppo981,DenonAVR683,Harmony880,MDN v3.2.0-5

strutter is offline  
post #5682 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 12:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Crazywoody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Posts: 880
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by strutter View Post

i went from SARA to Passport to Navigator all within a span of 2 months. aside from getting used to each ones peculiarities it was fairly smooth.

BTW the reason for the changes is that we were adelphia (SARA) then TW took over and changed it to Passport shortly after it changed again to Navigator.

Does the version of Navigator you have in the recording features have the time slot recording option.I use that a great deal with sara. Also has the recording priority option that passport had been added.That option is available with the Lincoln customers I understand. SARA 1.89.24.1 Greensboro NC
Crazywoody is offline  
post #5683 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 12:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
Crazywoody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Posts: 880
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just checked the Lincoln Time Warner site.Navigator there has series priority feature like passport.It has Time slot recording like Sara.New features just added are buffering for both tuners and high resolution graphics.If we get these features and they work bug free bring on Navigator.If they do not have these features keep Navigator. SARA 1.89.24.1
Crazywoody is offline  
post #5684 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 01:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
phousley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Dublin, OH (Columbus area)
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazywoody View Post

I just checked the Lincoln Time Warner site.Navigator there has series priority feature like passport.It has Time slot recording like Sara.New features just added are buffering for both tuners and high resolution graphics.If we get these features and they work bug free bring on Navigator.If they do not have these features keep Navigator. SARA 1.89.24.1

The Nebraska document has been around for a long time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but no one yet has many of these features. It's just a roadmap for promised capabilities.

SA8300HDC - ODN 5.2.0_9 - 1TB eSATA

phousley is offline  
post #5685 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 01:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BenJF3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Central New York (Syracuse DMA)
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Another big issue is guide speed. Have they improved the interaction/speed at all? I remember a while back someone posted a YouTube video about how awful the speed was. He'd say "click" when he pressed the button and it was literally seconds before the box responded. That and the god awful "loading data" screens. It'd be nice if someone with Navigator could post a sort of walkthrough review of it on Youtube stating the good and bad. Not a bashfest of it, but an actual honest review. Then us SARA users know what's in store for us.

8/30/2013 - Time Warner Liberation Day!
BenJF3 is offline  
post #5686 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 01:32 PM
Senior Member
 
jnv11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cary, SC, USA
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazywoody View Post

Does the version of Navigator you have in the recording features have the time slot recording option.I use that a great deal with sara. Also has the recording priority option that passport had been added.That option is available with the Lincoln customers I understand. SARA 1.89.24.1 Greensboro NC

In the Carolinas division that I am in, that depends on whether your box is a legacy box or a CableCARD-based box.

I noticed that these two features are in MDN Navigator, but are absent from ODN Navigator. However, ODN Navigator has the ability to change the border colors of 4x3 programs being shown on a 16x9 screen, has a guide that is faster when I must advance the guide beyond today and tomorrow, and is much more stable than MDN Navigator from my own experience with both and what others say in the TWC office when I am waiting in line for a customer service representative if MDN was put onto an HD box, which generally turns it into a crash-happy wreck. According to a neighbor who used MDN on a Scientific Atlanta 8300 (non-HD non-CableCARD), MDN was stable, though.

Therefore, these options are only available on older boxes without CableCARDs. Newer boxes with them do not have these features, but are stable. If you have no CableCARD slot, you will get these features plus a stinking dose of instability. If you have a CableCARD slot in the back, you will not get these features, but your box will be stable for the most part unless the box develops a hardware malfunction.

Does Nebraska have these features in ODN Navigator? I really would love the timeslot recording feature, but would not care one way or the other for series priority because we do not have enough recordings going on to create a conflict. If so, could you please give me your version number?

By the way, I noticed that in the PDF Navigator guide in Nebraska shows that eBay on Navigator and fantasy sports are in the pipeline for Navigator. While I could understand the eBay application being in the works as it would be easy to convince eBay's programmers to work on this using itaas's istart programs for MDN and ODN to develop an eBay application for both versions of Navigator, why are they bothering with fantasy sports? They should rather have manual recording in the pipeline before they even start on fantasy sports. Actually, sports fans would be better served by having better sports-related features in Navigator like recording each show involving a certain team rather than fantasy sports.
jnv11 is offline  
post #5687 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 01:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
danki6x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 808
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Sure, we have gotten some good HD additions, but adding USA to only remove it was lame ...

Sure see this comment a lot. I thought it was nice of them to have extra HD channels for the Olympics even though there is no regular agreement to have the channels. Other than the Olympics, I cannot remember the last time (if ever) I have watched a show on USA more than just a couple minutes as I scanned for something to watch. /Dan
danki6x is offline  
post #5688 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 01:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Satch Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Metro-Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,711
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Another big issue is guide speed. Have they improved the interaction/speed at all? I remember a while back someone posted a YouTube video about how awful the speed was. He'd say "click" when he pressed the button and it was literally seconds before the box responded. That and the god awful "loading data" screens. It'd be nice if someone with Navigator could post a sort of walkthrough review of it on Youtube stating the good and bad. Not a bashfest of it, but an actual honest review. Then us SARA users know what's in store for us.

I PM'd that guy on YouTube with that video. The reason for his prehistoric guide speed was because he had a box that was one of the first digital boxes that came out, a Pioneer. Those boxes at only 4megs of RAM don't have the memory needed to run Navigator and are long since defunct. The newer SA models have I believe 32megs of Ram, and I have heard the latest non-DVR uniits may have up to 64 megs. Navigator needs at least 8 megs of Ram to run at about a C acceptance level. To get it up to B range, you need at least 16 megs of Ram. The DVR boxes have 128 megs of Ram and GENERALLY, with these boxes, guide speed is not a problem. Some of the very very first SA 8000 boxes were slow, not because of Ram issues, but because of software/hardware configurations with the older boxes and DVR interaction features.

What's the model for your DVR, Ben? How old is it? Less than 5 years, you're probably OK. 5 years, it's a coin toss, but it's a 60% chance you'll be OK. If you have a box that is 6 years old or more, you're probably going to need to swipe it out for a newer model.

The 8300 boxes in general seem to work better than the 8000 boxes. But note that these are GUIDELINES. You'll know within about a day, two at most how well your box takes the transfer. I got an 8300HD on an SD set and had no problems. My box was one of the last non-C units that were produced.

Jack

SA-8300-HDC: TWC Navigator: ODN 7.2.11

Metro-Milwaukee Wisconsin

Satch Man is online now  
post #5689 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 02:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BenJF3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Central New York (Syracuse DMA)
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by danki6x View Post

Sure see this comment a lot. I thought it was nice of them to have extra HD channels for the Olympics even though there is no regular agreement to have the channels. Other than the Olympics, I cannot remember the last time (if ever) I have watched a show on USA more than just a couple minutes as I scanned for something to watch. /Dan

I was mainly peeved because they gave no indication this was temporary in our division. It wasn't until after they pulled it they said it was just for the Olympics.

8/30/2013 - Time Warner Liberation Day!
BenJF3 is offline  
post #5690 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 05:10 PM
Member
 
jimholcomb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnv11 View Post

In the Carolinas division that I am in, that depends on whether your box is a legacy box or a CableCARD-based box.

I noticed that these two features are in MDN Navigator, but are absent from ODN Navigator. However, ODN Navigator has the ability to change the border colors of 4x3 programs being shown on a 16x9 screen, has a guide that is faster when I must advance the guide beyond today and tomorrow, and is much more stable than MDN Navigator from my own experience with both and what others say in the TWC office when I am waiting in line for a customer service representative if MDN was put onto an HD box, which generally turns it into a crash-happy wreck. According to a neighbor who used MDN on a Scientific Atlanta 8300 (non-HD non-CableCARD), MDN was stable, though.

Interesting, right now I have both MDN and ODN boxes and I have a choice on which to keep. I'm keeping the MDN box because it's more stable and the guide is quicker. MDN hasn't crashed in 2 weeks, ODN has crashed 3x (that I know of) in the same time period.

Jim
jimholcomb is offline  
post #5691 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 05:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BenJF3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Central New York (Syracuse DMA)
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 28
I'm really hoping that the 8550 is in deployment right around the time they drop Navigator on us. I think you will see a drastic difference in performance with the more up to date hardware.

On a side note: I have only had to reboot my SARA based box a total of ONE time in over two years, so a two week time frame is nothing as far as I'm concerned. They have to do far better than that.

8/30/2013 - Time Warner Liberation Day!
BenJF3 is offline  
post #5692 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 06:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
Crazywoody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Posts: 880
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimholcomb View Post

Interesting, right now I have both MDN and ODN boxes and I have a choice on which to keep. I'm keeping the MDN box because it's more stable and the guide is quicker. MDN hasn't crashed in 2 weeks, ODN has crashed 3x (that I know of) in the same time period.

Jim

Does your MDN version have Time slot recording and series priority feature? Sara 1.89.2.1 Greensboro NC
Crazywoody is offline  
post #5693 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 06:36 PM
Senior Member
 
jnv11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cary, SC, USA
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

I PM'd that guy on YouTube with that video. The reason for his prehistoric guide speed was because he had a box that was one of the first digital boxes that came out, a Pioneer. Those boxes at only 4megs of RAM don't have the memory needed to run Navigator and are long since defunct. The newer SA models have I believe 32megs of Ram, and I have heard the latest non-DVR uniits may have up to 64 megs. Navigator needs at least 8 megs of Ram to run at about a C acceptance level. To get it up to B range, you need at least 16 megs of Ram. The DVR boxes have 128 megs of Ram and GENERALLY, with these boxes, guide speed is not a problem. Some of the very very first SA 8000 boxes were slow, not because of Ram issues, but because of software/hardware configurations with the older boxes and DVR interaction features.

What's the model for your DVR, Ben? How old is it? Less than 5 years, you're probably OK. 5 years, it's a coin toss, but it's a 60% chance you'll be OK. If you have a box that is 6 years old or more, you're probably going to need to swipe it out for a newer model.

The 8300 boxes in general seem to work better than the 8000 boxes. But note that these are GUIDELINES. You'll know within about a day, two at most how well your box takes the transfer. I got an 8300HD on an SD set and had no problems. My box was one of the last non-C units that were produced.

Jack

Actually, the Scientific Atlanta 4250HDC or 4240HDC that is being handed out in my area has 128MB of RAM. The datasheet for it suggests that OCAP only be run on the models with 128MB of RAM. The non-OCAP version only has 32MB of RAM.

EDIT: I forgot one more thing. The legacy 8000HD has 32MB of RAM, while the legacy 8300HD has 64MB of RAM.
jnv11 is offline  
post #5694 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 07:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
michaeltscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 16,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimholcomb View Post

Interesting, right now I have both MDN and ODN boxes and I have a choice on which to keep. I'm keeping the MDN box because it's more stable and the guide is quicker. MDN hasn't crashed in 2 weeks, ODN has crashed 3x (that I know of) in the same time period.

Jim

I'd agree--that's our experience with the MDN box in this house (on an 8300HD) versus ODN (on a 4250HDC), and that's the impression that I get from others posting here (other than jnv11). It's also what I'd expect intuitively--the native C-code version would be faster and more stable than a port to Java running on the same processor.

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
michaeltscott is online now  
post #5695 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 08:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
phousley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Dublin, OH (Columbus area)
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well I have ODN and after going through 2 boxes that were constantly rebooting, I've now got a system that has been pretty stable for months: no reboots and no missed recordings. Also no problems with responsiveness. Now that I can use my external drive, I'm reasonably satisfied.

SA8300HDC - ODN 5.2.0_9 - 1TB eSATA

phousley is offline  
post #5696 of 18623 Old 09-19-2008, 08:25 PM
Senior Member
 
jnv11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cary, SC, USA
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I'd agree--that's our experience with the MDN box in this house (on an 8300HD) versus ODN (on a 4250HDC), and that's the impression that I get from others posting here (other than jnv11). It's also what I'd expect intuitively--the native C-code version would be faster and more stable than a port to Java running on the same processor.

You are right about how the C-code version is faster. However, C is a rather dangerous language to use. It does not check at all if the area of memory you want to access is valid or not and provides no facilities if you want run-time checking at all, unlike C++, which provides optional run-time checking on certain memory vector accesses. This is great if the operating system can check memory accesses and shut down programs that try to access memory locations they have no business accessing because they have not asked the operating system to grant these areas. However, the operating system requires hardware in a CPU called a memory management unit (abbreviated MMU) to perform the run-time checking. Therefore, in an operating system that provides memory protection, there is no need to provide run-time memory protection by the language normally. In fact, the operating system can attach a debugger to the misbehaving program that has an excellent chance of showing the exact instruction that caused the memory error if a debugger is installed, making debugging easy.

The problem is that the standard version of PowerTV used to run natively-compiled code does not support memory protection in an effort to allow the use of cheaper CPUs without MMUs, as can be seen in this article in Dr. Dobb's Journal. Therefore, a misbehaving program can walk over and corrupt other programs. The version of MDN I used, MDN 2.4.1-92, started crashing whenever I have closed captioning turned on, am playing a recorded HDTV program with lots of chat like a news program, and have the background tuner tuned to an HDTV channel. Because the news program threw a bunch of closed captioning text on the screen other programs did not throw, I suspected a memory overflow. MDN 2.4.1-107, the current version for legacy boxes as far as I know, fixes this problem, but crased when playing an Olympics program due to the long program times according to an earlier forum post. ODN did not crash this way. My mother is not a native speaker of English, so failing closed captioning on MDN 2.4.1-92 doomed the 8300HD that was running Passport Echo fine for so long.

However, Java requires run-time checking of dynamic memory accesses before they even start executing them. A failed check generates an exception that results in a stack trace that points to the exact function in the code that caused the error, simplifying debugging greatly. It might also be possible that since the AXIOM OCAP middleware runs on top of an OCAP edition of the PowerTV OS, that version of the OS might implement hardware memory checking. Therefore, if the OCAP middleware fouls up, the OS might catch this. The fact that an OCAP edition of the PowerTV OS is proven in the AXIOM diagnostics. However, the point about the special OCAP edition of the PowerTV OS implemeinting hardware memory protection is pure speculation on my part.

Therefore, it is concievable that the Java version can be more stable than the C version. Java is more of a nanny language than C. Since the normal PowerTV OS lacks memory protection, this environment is very tough to debug memory errors. Java's compulsory memory access checks slow things down, but make it much easier to debug.
jnv11 is offline  
post #5697 of 18623 Old 09-20-2008, 08:32 AM
Senior Member
 
PedjaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cary, NC (Raleigh/Durham area)
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by phousley View Post

Well I have ODN and after going through 2 boxes that were constantly rebooting, I've now got a system that has been pretty stable for months: no reboots and no missed recordings. Also no problems with responsiveness. Now that I can use my external drive, I'm reasonably satisfied.

That seems to be common; see some posts here from about a year ago. My guess is that Navigator is too sensitive to flakiness of the box or signal, and that the 8300HDC boxes are (at least were, maybe they improved?) frequently flaky. When it gets to your 8300HD box, if it is solid, and your signal level is good, you are likely in a good shape, but if it is not solid, you will have lots of issues (note that I mean solid as Navigator requires; it may be plenty solid enough for SARA but not enough for Navigator). Again, this is just a guess, but it fits the little data I have nicely - several people had bad issues that disappeared with box replacement (and the replacement was the same model).
My first HDC box exibited "channel not available" and had one random reboot. After a few days I replaced the box and with the replacement I had about a year with no missed recordings or random reboots. However, with that box, external drive now stutters every two minutes or so. Replaced it a week ago (very reluctantly, as I was afraid of getting worse headaches than external drive stuttering), and so far so good, but I still need more time to completely trust the new box (if it works correctly for 2 weeks, I'll be convinced).
With 2.4.10_11, it seems like there are no bad bugs left (there are missed features galore, but that's another story). The one thing that is flaky for me is series recording set to record only New episodes; works well when the guide data is good (pretty much all broadcast network stuff), but is confused when guide data is too skimpy (Daily Show/Colbert Report, for example), so it goes ahead and records everything; that is better than missing new shows, but is annoying nonetheless. The time slot restriction present in MDN but not in ODN would be useful for that, I hope they add it to ODN (without introducing bugs).
PedjaR is offline  
post #5698 of 18623 Old 09-20-2008, 12:00 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
CycloneMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Overland Park, KS, USA
Posts: 737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CycloneMike View Post

First off, I wanted to thank all those who had previously posted information on how to check signal strength with the cable boxes - I actually used a cable box (4250HD) and a small 13-inch TV to run around the house and check the signal strengths at various locations. I had to be patient as the box rebooted every time I plugged it in at a different location, but it was alot cheaper than buying a signal tester!!!! I had plenty of other things to do, so I would move it and go back about 1/2 hour later after it rebooted and check the readings.

I was also able to verify my Mystro software version: ODN 2.4.10_11

I got into both into the information screens and the diagnositc screens and based on the information and my cable/splitter/amplifier (+15dB)/wiring setup and lengths have determined / estimated the following signal strengths (digital QAM 1 dBmV):

Basement 8300HDC: +3 to +10 (depending on MHz - higher MHz, lower reading).
Office 4250HD: -4 to +2
Office SA Cable Modem: +9.5
Signal strength at house cable drop: +2 (pretty good as they aim for 0)

The reading on the 8300HDC shows yellow at 9 dBmV and red at 10 dBmV. I think this indicates that it prefers the signal to be at or below +8 dBmV. I hope this won't cause premature failure of the box or problems with recordings.

In the office at the 4250HD I tried to split the cable again and feed the 4250HD one line and the antenna connection on the TV the other line, but the 4250HD had trouble with pixelization on the HD channels that were the higher MHz signals. It would have put those signals around -7.5 dB and that is the low end of the acceptable range. The TV antenna connection was also degraded.

Prior to adding the 15 dB amplifier with the cable modem, I was having some problems with the signal which was at about -5.5 dBmV and now at the +9.5 I am having even more problems (I may be over-powering the modem).

I think I will see what happens if I split the cable modem feed to the the cable box, which should lower the modem to +6.0 and raise the cable box to that same amount. I can then split the signal to the cable box/TV again and they will have around +2.5 average.

I know this seems confusing, but in general I think I have a signal strength at my house that I can't complain to TWC about.

Thanks,

Mike

I changed some of my wiring to drop the strength to the cable modem and raise the signal to the office SA 4250HDC Box and now I get the following:

dBmV on signal strength:

Basement 8300HDC: +3 to +10 (depending on MHz - higher MHz, lower reading).
Office 4250HD: 0 to +5 and 33 to 37 dB S/N
Office SA Cable Modem: +5.0
Signal strength at house cable drop: +2 (pretty good as they aim for 0)

The cable modem seems to be working better. I still have some problems on Saturday afternoons with breakup on the HD channels at the higher MHz, but with the cable strength at a minimum of 0 dBmV and the S/N above 33 dB it seems a little odd.

Mike

"A banker: the person who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it rains" - Mark Twain
CycloneMike is offline  
post #5699 of 18623 Old 09-20-2008, 02:01 PM
Advanced Member
 
Crazywoody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Posts: 880
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by phousley View Post

The Nebraska document has been around for a long time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but no one yet has many of these features. It's just a roadmap for promised capabilities.

Your wrong many people with Navigator now have these features.
Crazywoody is offline  
post #5700 of 18623 Old 09-20-2008, 02:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
phousley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Dublin, OH (Columbus area)
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazywoody View Post

Your wrong many people with Navigator now have these features.

Good to hear! I didn't know anyone had ability to set series priority and specific air time. Also banner size and delete time estimate. Which market has these features? What release number?

SA8300HDC - ODN 5.2.0_9 - 1TB eSATA

phousley is offline  
Reply HDTV Recorders

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off