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post #1081 of 18661 Old 07-17-2007, 07:07 PM
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when I added and removed additional STB's from my account I did experience similar issues as well. A simple reset of all equipment to the account should solve it.

When you add equipment or channels, the information is entered into the "billing system" which then forwards that info to the actual cable system that actually transmits the cable signals to your house.

In my area (Salisbury, NC) they use a bar-code scanner to enter the cable box/DVR info into the billing system, so it is usually correct (if they remember to actually do it and they have correctly selected your account) but the "channels"/package that you subscribe to is entered manually. SO it depends on a human to get it right, sometimes that's a lot to ask for.

Each cable box/DVR has a unique ID (MAC) that must be registered with the cable system, so you may have one box that works, another that doesn't. Sometimes it appears that the billing system fails to update the cable system or the update just doesn't "take".

So quite often the "fix" is for them to tell the billing system to resend the info to the cable system. I'm about 10 minutes from my local cable office. When I take a box in for replacement, it usually doesn't work when I get home - there hasn't been enough time elapsed for the info to get over to the cable system, so I usually have to call and get them to "bump" the system.
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post #1082 of 18661 Old 07-17-2007, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post

You can't reboot box with remote, but you can with the keys on the front of the box. To reboot MDN you press the (Vol + and Vol - and Info) buttons all at once, I assume this will work with ODN.

Oh no! This isn't good for me. Being able to reboot my SARA 8300HD via the remote really helps because I'm disabled and can't fiddle with the box or power strip.

I want Ed on DVD/Blu-ray!
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post #1083 of 18661 Old 07-18-2007, 04:56 AM
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More Navigator sightings.My neighboros parents live in Durham NC and just had their 8300hd replaced and shazam Navigator arrived in their home.Also in Emerald Isle NC two people i know there just now Navigator on new boxes and as i understand it one box was not a hd 8300.
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post #1084 of 18661 Old 07-18-2007, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgcss View Post

When you add equipment or channels, the information is entered into the "billing system" which then forwards that info to the actual cable system that actually transmits the cable signals to your house.

In my area (Salisbury, NC) they use a bar-code scanner to enter the cable box/DVR info into the billing system, so it is usually correct (if they remember to actually do it and they have correctly selected your account) but the "channels"/package that you subscribe to is entered manually. SO it depends on a human to get it right, sometimes that's a lot to ask for.

Each cable box/DVR has a unique ID (MAC) that must be registered with the cable system, so you may have one box that works, another that doesn't. Sometimes it appears that the billing system fails to update the cable system or the update just doesn't "take".

So quite often the "fix" is for them to tell the billing system to resend the info to the cable system. I'm about 10 minutes from my local cable office. When I take a box in for replacement, it usually doesn't work when I get home - there hasn't been enough time elapsed for the info to get over to the cable system, so I usually have to call and get them to "bump" the system.

Unfortunately with the new boxes there may be more to it than that. When I received my new 8300 HDC a tech installed it. He called it in. It was activated and all channels worked except for half of the HD tier channels. The signals were all at acceptable levels, so that was not the problem. Those channels had the call customer service message on them. I spent a great deal of of time on the phone with multiple techs, billing and customer service. No one could get those channels to work by sending signals to the box or by rebooting. Eventually I found a tech who got it to work, but it only worked after a reboot. I'm not sure what he did differently, but some things lead me to believe he activated everything on the box and then removed the tiers I shouldn't have had.
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post #1085 of 18661 Old 07-18-2007, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

I have speculated about Passport areas getting 8300HDCs w/Navigator. BUT we need someone who is IN a Passport area to get the new box and tell us what it's running.

As for the cable card, all the new Samsung LCDs seem to have QAM tuners but no longer have models with actual slots... a disturbing trend. My display does NOT have one and I wish it did (I would "keep" the DVR service as it is, a cable card would give me more options, like I could set the box to only buffer the channel it's recording, have it not buffer the other and use the cable card for live viewing.

I am in NYC and have friends that moved into an apartment recently. They had cable boxes installed after the July 1st deadline; one HD box and one HD-DVR box. The HD box was the new Samsung running Navigator and the HD-DVR was the 8300 HDC running Navigator. I recently moved in April, and luckily was still able to get the 8300 HD and I am still running Passport, thankfully.

Have there been any timetables as to when they'll "upgrade" 8300 HD Passport users to Navigator? I don't want to give it up. I was using my friend's HDC box and the interface was just painfully slow, reminded me of CableVision's crap iO interface in NJ.
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post #1086 of 18661 Old 07-18-2007, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post

MDN or ODN.

BTW, MDN is Navigator for legecy boxes, ODN is for OCAP boxes.

Confused, I thought Navigator brought OCAP to us, period. Are you saying MDN Navigator will go on 8300HDs and ODN Navigator will go on 8300HDC boxes?

Saying "OCAP box" kind of implies it's burned into hardware. For a brand new, middleware kind of product that makes NO sense.

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post #1087 of 18661 Old 07-18-2007, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue_Rage View Post

Yes I'm able to pause, fast forward and rewind live programming that I am not recording. Although I'm about 99% sure I was able to do this with my prior box running Passport. And yes when you hit the list button, along with showing your recordings, etc. it also tells you the percentage full your HD's are.

Let be careful here... it has been well established that the Passport trick play bug ONLY happens when the channel you are viewing is using the external drive for it's buffer. Apparently, the buffer for the currently tuned channel goes to the drive with the largest amount of free space.

BUT all this comes not from any documentation, but from a ton of actual experience by numerous folks. Assuming that Navigator does indeed behave exactly like Passport in where the buffer goes, a brand new external drive when it's first installed has GOT to have that "largest amount of free space." No trick play bug in this and we CAN jump for joy.

BUT, there one big assumption in there, so I would hesitate to call it 100% fixed. As we see more TWC customers move from Passport to Navigator, we can amass more anecdotal evidence... but assumptions aside, this is encouraging.

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post #1088 of 18661 Old 07-18-2007, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by redsandvb View Post

Oh no! This isn't good for me. Being able to reboot my SARA 8300HD via the remote really helps because I'm disabled and can't fiddle with the box or power strip.

Pretty sure there is SOMETHING that will work for you. There are "clappers" that will turn a remote plug on and off with clapping (sharp noise). There are dual plugs (male/female) that run a wire to a switch to allow A/C to pass or not. I've heard about power strips with remote on-off controls.

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post #1089 of 18661 Old 07-18-2007, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by flipdon View Post

I am in NYC and have friends that moved into an apartment recently. They had cable boxes installed after the July 1st deadline; one HD box and one HD-DVR box. The HD box was the new Samsung running Navigator and the HD-DVR was the 8300 HDC running Navigator. I recently moved in April, and luckily was still able to get the 8300 HD and I am still running Passport, thankfully.

Have there been any timetables as to when they'll "upgrade" 8300 HD Passport users to Navigator? I don't want to give it up. I was using my friend's HDC box and the interface was just painfully slow, reminded me of CableVision's crap iO interface in NJ.

It would be FABULOUS if you convinced these friends to sign up to AVS and regularly visit the New York, NY forum (along with this one). We are all desperate to hear real world stuff.

Of course, the HDC represents a very different methodology than the HD boxes, so there is an additional element going on with it than with our "old" HD boxes.

Damn good question about folks with HD/Passport boxes getting Navigator. It may very well be that it could be a few months... BUT I suspect it's SDV that will tell the tale. By September, we will see most other cable/satellite systems delivering FAR more HD than the paltry lineup TWC NYC has. So one would THINK they have compelling reasons to get it deployed on our "old" boxes.

Look at it this way... from a few posts here, it looks like navigator finally does squash the trick play bug... and that (IMO) was a BIG one.

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post #1090 of 18661 Old 07-18-2007, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Let be careful here... it has been well established that the Passport trick play bug ONLY happens when the channel you are viewing is using the external drive for it's buffer. Apparently, the buffer for the currently tuned channel goes to the drive with the largest amount of free space.

BUT all this comes not from any documentation, but from a ton of actual experience by numerous folks. Assuming that Navigator does indeed behave exactly like Passport in where the buffer goes, a brand new external drive when it's first installed has GOT to have that "largest amount of free space." No trick play bug in this and we CAN jump for joy.

BUT, there one big assumption in there, so I would hesitate to call it 100% fixed. As we see more TWC customers move from Passport to Navigator, we can amass more anecdotal evidence... but assumptions aside, this is encouraging.

Yes, of course his response reflects only his experience this one time, under current conditions - as you say, anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone would reasonably have concluded that we can all consider the issue closed, and I wasn't expecting him to close the issue for us with his response.

The circumstances at that moment, however, seemed ideal for me to ask the question of him, since he had just activated his external HD, and his available space had jumped from 8% to 80%, or so, which I would expect to create a condition that would have shown the problem in Passport.

It will be a long time before anyone can conclude with any confidence that Navigator fixes the known Navigator issues, and what, if any, new issues it creates, but it is indeed encouraging, and just one of many anecdotal pieces of evidence that will help us to learn and build a better understanding of life with Navigator.

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post #1091 of 18661 Old 07-18-2007, 03:44 PM
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Spoke to my friend i Havelock NC near the coast.Got a short rundown on Navigator.What he hates is how slow the darn thing is.TWC must find a way to speed it up.He says otherwise in some areas it's as good as Passport.He has not missed any series recordings so far.He misses his old Passport keyword search but says Navigator keyboard is useable.He has had no lockup or rebootin problems so it seems it is getting more stable.Overall he gives it a B- compared to a solid A for Passport.Any futher updates I will pass along.
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post #1092 of 18661 Old 07-19-2007, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

It would be FABULOUS if you convinced these friends to sign up to AVS and regularly visit the New York, NY forum (along with this one). We are all desperate to hear real world stuff.

Of course, the HDC represents a very different methodology than the HD boxes, so there is an additional element going on with it than with our "old" HD boxes.

Damn good question about folks with HD/Passport boxes getting Navigator. It may very well be that it could be a few months... BUT I suspect it's SDV that will tell the tale. By September, we will see most other cable/satellite systems delivering FAR more HD than the paltry lineup TWC NYC has. So one would THINK they have compelling reasons to get it deployed on our "old" boxes.

Look at it this way... from a few posts here, it looks like navigator finally does squash the trick play bug... and that (IMO) was a BIG one.

It's safe to say they're too lazy and not interested enough to document their experiences, but if you could give me some things to look at and try out, I could do my best to post to this thread and the NY, NY forum the next time I visit their place.
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post #1093 of 18661 Old 07-19-2007, 12:17 PM
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Are most of you getting changed over because you are getting new boxes? Or are your old boxes being updated to Navigator? Is your local TW office giving you advance notice of the change-over, and if so, how much advance notice did you get?

We have many in our area under grandfather-claused contracts with older Pioneer boxes and other earlier models. Still waiting as to how TW deals with this. Most have been very happy with Passport. Do most of Navigator's problems stream from being installed on DVR boxes vs. non-DVR boxes?

Jack

PS. Of what little information I do have, no one has said that they prefer Navigator over Passport, despite TW's preaching about how "great" Navigator is.

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post #1094 of 18661 Old 07-19-2007, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

Are most of you getting changed over because you are getting new boxes? Or are your old boxes being updated to Navigator? Is your local TW office giving you advance notice of the change-over, and if so, how much advance notice did you get?

It looks like anyone getting a new box (Samsung or 8300HDC) from now on will have the new Navigator software, but those of us with older Passport boxes haven't been 'upgraded' through any automatic updates or have had any warning of such. They probably won't be giving out 8300HDs with Passport anymore, I'm assuming.
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post #1095 of 18661 Old 07-19-2007, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Pretty sure there is SOMETHING that will work for you. There are "clappers" that will turn a remote plug on and off with clapping (sharp noise). There are dual plugs (male/female) that run a wire to a switch to allow A/C to pass or not. I've heard about power strips with remote on-off controls.

Power strips w/ remotes sounds interisting, something to look for. Thanks

I want Ed on DVD/Blu-ray!
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post #1096 of 18661 Old 07-19-2007, 08:18 PM
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FYI: See "Net/DC/IR Controlled AC outlets" under "POWER" in fol. website:
http://www.hometech.com/home/index.html
They also have dozens of other IR/RF controlled devices.

Fol. websites also carry lots of useful IR/RF control devices:
http://www.smarthome.com/_/index.aspx
http://www.x10.com/homepage.htm
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post #1097 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

Are most of you getting changed over because you are getting new boxes? Or are your old boxes being updated to Navigator? Is your local TW office giving you advance notice of the change-over, and if so, how much advance notice did you get?

I think a big part of the problem with the rollout in Lincoln was that TWC gave us blanket updates, regardless of box type (though they did segregate different types of boxes into different rollout times) and then just replaced those boxes that crashed. (Of course, the customers who lost their boxes had to hand-deliver them to the TWC office, or schedule a time to meet with a service person. Not to mention having to go through manually and reset all the favorite programs to be DVR'd on the box.)

Sounds like TWC may have learned their lesson about doing mass experimentation with all kinds of customer boxes. If so, glad we could be of service to you other markets. (Though it would have been nice if they'd have just asked us for input rather than crashing our DVR boxes and figuring it out for themselves.)

Navigator's design flaws are one problem (and need fixin'), but IMHO crashing DVR boxes was a worse problem.
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post #1098 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 05:18 AM
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Satch Man, in Charlotte, a tech told me that TWC would not be replacing the "old" 8300HD boxes with the new 8300HDC boxes. He indicated that eventually, the software on the old boxes would be updated to Navigator and that you would wake up one morning and have the new software. Anyone getting a box for the first time or an additional box is getting the 8300HDC with Navigator. I got my 8300HDC with Navigator on Monday and still can't get all of the HD channels that I should be getting. Another tech is coming today, so hopefully he can get the issues worked out.

Ron
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post #1099 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by flipdon View Post

It's safe to say they're too lazy and not interested enough to document their experiences, but if you could give me some things to look at and try out, I could do my best to post to this thread and the NY, NY forum the next time I visit their place.

Whatever you can glean from them is useful. Confirmation that the Passport trick play bug (but that means they will have to setup an external storage drive) is gone would be a good place to start. The major thing is that many of us will be going from Passport to Navigator, so if your friends are not very familiar with Passport, their "opinions" might not carry that much weight. So it's probably best to stick to strictly facts rather than opinion... don't you think?

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post #1100 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bulldog1975 View Post

I think a big part of the problem with the rollout in Lincoln was that TWC gave us blanket updates, regardless of box type (though they did segregate different types of boxes into different rollout times) and then just replaced those boxes that crashed. (Of course, the customers who lost their boxes had to hand-deliver them to the TWC office, or schedule a time to meet with a service person. Not to mention having to go through manually and reset all the favorite programs to be DVR'd on the box.)

Sounds like TWC may have learned their lesson about doing mass experimentation with all kinds of customer boxes. If so, glad we could be of service to you other markets. (Though it would have been nice if they'd have just asked us for input rather than crashing our DVR boxes and figuring it out for themselves.)

Navigator's design flaws are one problem (and need fixin'), but IMHO crashing DVR boxes was a worse problem.

That is kind of what I see in reading these comments lately as well.

There was another update here in Lincoln in the last couple days. I think the software version went from 2.3.41AD to 2.3.45AD. No noticeable difference or at least not to me. Haven't really played with it yet.

Since they added the ESPN channels (2HD and U) in the beginning of June I have noticed break ups in the signals for the HD channels at times when I really haven't had any problems before. Was kind of wondering if it had anything to do with putting ESPN2 on SDV or if it is just a problem with the signal they are receiving?

According to one of my friends, who just had cable put in because of a sweetheart year long deal that TW Lincoln gives to people who switch from dishes, they have some of the Samsung boxes here in Lincoln but they are still in testing and that it would be a while before they are used (at least here). That is what the tech told him at least, so I am not sure how accurate it is.
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post #1101 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 02:20 PM
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Can someone provide a list of all the known digital cable and box manufactures that create or have created digital boxes since around 2000? This is the year that digital cable was introduced here in Milwaukee Wisconsin. But it didn't "take off" until about 2001. We didn't get digital cable until about 2002. The box manufactures at that time were:

Pioneer

Pace

Scientific Atlanta

These are standard digital cable boxes.

We also have DVR's as optional boxes for an added monthly charge. AFAIK. All of those models are manufactured by SA.

We now have from what I have learned in reading the forums Motorola and Samsung as new boxes from TWC. Pioneer is still "in the field." But is no longer in circulation as a cable box company. What about Pace?

My local TW cable office said last year that all of the boxes would eventually be carried over to Navigator. We know that Navigator is coming as TWC subscribers. We will now get it in box exchanges. We will get it eventually through automatic updates. But the point is, Navigator, like it or not, will effect all TWC subscribers probably sooner than later.

Post what you know about each of these boxes, and Navigator's reactions to them.

Jack

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post #1102 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 03:52 PM
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I just got my new box and I have to say it is a tick slower than the 8300 Passport (Charlotte, NC TWC). I do like the interface much better than the passport, but have an issue with one other thing. I am using HDMI and it will not let me change the resolution to match my TV's (1080i). When I go to the resolution tab, it says it you are using DVI or HDMI it will not allow you to change it, so if the channel is 480i it sends 480i to my set... the old box allow me to pick the resolutions even while using HDMI.
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post #1103 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorny423 View Post

Since they added the ESPN channels (2HD and U) in the beginning of June I have noticed break ups in the signals for the HD channels at times when I really haven't had any problems before. Was kind of wondering if it had anything to do with putting ESPN2 on SDV or if it is just a problem with the signal they are receiving?

It more likely is due to using a higher QAM frequency which probably has a lower signal level to your house.

Also, are you SURE that they have put ESPN2 on SDV? I would think that they would hold off doing that till everything else is squared away there in Lincoln. I know that SDV is one of the reasons that they gave for going to Navigator, but I think that they have their hands full as it is without additional system complications.

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post #1104 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 05:12 PM
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It more likely is due to using a higher QAM frequency which probably has a lower signal level to your house.

Also, are you SURE that they have put ESPN2 on SDV? I would think that they would hold off doing that till everything else is squared away there in Lincoln. I know that SDV is one of the reasons that they gave for going to Navigator, but I think that they have their hands full as it is without additional system complications.

But it is happening to channels that have had no problems in the past? It isn't often, but it is frequent enough to be noticed and not during weather events. It isn't a big deal, I was just throwing it out there to see if I was the only one in case others in Lincoln have had the same things happen.

In some of TW Nebraska's literature they sent out there was a disclaimer that not all channels would be available via cable card including ESPN2. I would think that would mean SDV. But I may be wrong.
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post #1105 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by McGillicutty View Post

When I go to the resolution tab, it says it you are using DVI or HDMI it will not allow you to change it, so if the channel is 480i it sends 480i to my set... the old box allow me to pick the resolutions even while using HDMI.

Ugh, that is annoying. I hate waiting for resolution syncs and the box upcoverts good enough for me.

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post #1106 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 05:15 PM
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...I do like the interface much better than the passport...

When you are in the guide and press the number buttons, does it move the guide or change the channel?

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post #1107 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 05:17 PM
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I just got my new box and I have to say it is a tick slower than the 8300 Passport (Charlotte, NC TWC). I do like the interface much better than the passport, but have an issue with one other thing. I am using HDMI and it will not let me change the resolution to match my TV's (1080i). When I go to the resolution tab, it says it you are using DVI or HDMI it will not allow you to change it, so if the channel is 480i it sends 480i to my set... the old box allow me to pick the resolutions even while using HDMI.

I had the same thing in Lincoln when we got Navigator. I just gave up and used component. I also had a problem of not being able to send a DD 5.1 stream to my receiver when I sent the picture straight to the TV via HDMI (my receiver doesn't have HDMI). That was more of the reason for me to go back to component. I haven't tried lately to see if they "fixed" that or not, my guess is that they won't and that they have bigger fish to fry first.
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post #1108 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 05:34 PM
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But it is happening to channels that have had no problems in the past? It isn't often, but it is frequent enough to be noticed and not during weather events. It isn't a big deal, I was just throwing it out there to see if I was the only one in case others in Lincoln have had the same things happen.

They can easily change the QAM frequency without giving you any clue in the channel number of the guide. Basically, the STB has a map (which is downloaded from the headend) that maps a guide channel number to a specific QAM and bitstream on that QAM. For example, on systems that have digital simulcasting (most systems these days) a SD channel will be on analog AND on a SD QAM. For example, here in Rochester channel 10 analog is 195MHz, but the digital version is on a QAM at 651MHz (and the HD version is on a QAM at 663MHz). When I tune to SD channel 10 on my cable box I automatically get theQAM at 651MHz. If I tune to channel 10 directly on my TV (cable to RF input), I get 195MHz. Or system has moved around the QAM channels in the past without anyone (well I noticed) being the wiser.

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In some of TW Nebraska's literature they sent out there was a disclaimer that not all channels would be available via cable card including ESPN2. I would think that would mean SDV. But I may be wrong.

You would think so. A year ago there were reports that TW here had put some channels (UniversalHD in particular) on SDV. And they had this disclaimer. Later, I was talking to the head technician of the head end and he told me that they had not yet gone to SDV. The newer version of SARA had some dedicated SDV screens, and checking those have revealed that there still (well the last time I checked, about 6 weeks ago) no SDV channels here. But, I don't know anything about your diagnostic screens, so I can't tell you how to check.

My suggestion: call TW if you have break-up. The SA digital boxes are touchy about levels (either too high or too low) , and the TW techs have all sorts of ways of dealing with it.

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post #1109 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CANNON-FODDER View Post

When you are in the guide and press the number buttons, does it move the guide or change the channel?

v/r,
C-F

Yes it does, it also allows you to customize the guide, which the old Passport would not, BUT not completely. It will cut the channels I dont want out, but not all of them. When I run through all the channels it will not cut a lot of the specialty channels out, like the NBA or baseball channels for instance.
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post #1110 of 18661 Old 07-20-2007, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by McGillicutty View Post

Yes it does, it also allows you to customize the guide, which the old Passport would not, BUT not completely. It will cut the channels I dont want out, but not all of them. When I run through all the channels it will not cut a lot of the specialty channels out, like the NBA or baseball channels for instance.

So ... How slow is it.. Like press guide 1 1000 2 1000 guide shows up, or worse?

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