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post #91 of 18753 Old 12-17-2006, 03:24 PM
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Time Warner Columbus, Ohio is starting their Navigator rollout for customers in early January.

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post #92 of 18753 Old 12-18-2006, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

...The solution (if this is your problem) is to ... or get two HDMI-to-HDMI cables and join them with a pair of HDMI-to-DVI adapters (if your set does not have a DVI input but only an HDMI input), so as to eliminate the audio part of the HDMI signal path. That way the SA8300 is not bothered by the fact that the HDTV cannot accept DD5.1 over HDMI and will simply do whatever you tell it...

Late response I know, but have you tested this? I thought that the HDMI and DVI interfaces use different physical connectors but the same signal pins with different protocols, i.e. the HDMI source signal will proceed [barring physical connection issues] unmolested across the DVI adapter(s) to a HDMI [sink] device, where the HDMI source will only [negotiate down] to DVI if the [sink] device only uses the DVI protocols (my expectation for a physical DVI input on a device which also has an HDMI input).

DVI Pinout
HDMI Pinout

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post #93 of 18753 Old 12-18-2006, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CANNON-FODDER View Post

Late response I know, but have you tested this?

Well no, to be honest, I have not tested this myself because I don't have the problem since I don't use HDMI to connect my 6412 DVR to my 34XBR960.

However, I know for a fact (because I have done this on a friend's set) that you certainly can connect the HDMI output of a SA8300 DVR to the DVI input of a Sharp Aquos (HDMI-to-DVI cable) which eliminates all audio going to the set and allows the SA8300 to deliver DD5.1 out its optical cable to the external audio receiver. This was most definitely not happening when using an HDMI-to-HDMI cable when the set told the SA8300 it could not handle DD5.1 over HDMI.

I simply concluded that you could use the pair of cables and adapters as I suggested initially to accomplish the same thing (if the set does not have a DVI connector), resulting again in just video being delivered to the set via its HDMI connector since the DVI junction eliminates all audio over the path. You're left with just video. The HDMI connector can accept an HDMI connection with zero audio on it, hence my conclusion. I can't see why this wouldn't work.

But no... I have not actually tried it personally.
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post #94 of 18753 Old 12-19-2006, 04:02 PM
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OK, thanks. I was just checking because I was holding to that thought as well -- as a pre-planned work-around for upgrading to an HDMI set. (Before the never-ending RV interlude made most of my plans OBE).

The fact that the pinouts have the similar number and type of TMDS Data pins led me to believe [or someone may have pointed out to me] that that the adapters had no logic (simple physical adapters) and the HDMI signal would just continue merrily across the adapter to an HDMI input. HDMI pins 13 (CEC), 15 (SCL), 16 (SDA), 17 (DDC/CEC Ground) were the ones that I hoped might have [driven the HDMI drop to DVI].

The only examples that I could find with it working were [as in your friend's case] where it went to an actual DVI input. I could never conclusively find an example that proved or disproved if the HDMI-DVI_adapter-HDMI would always drop to DVI, or if that particular DVI input only [spoke] DVI.

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post #95 of 18753 Old 12-20-2006, 12:39 PM
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Another Lincoln, Nebraska victim of the new TWC software here. I purchased a 20 hour Tivo (series 1) and put a lifetime sub on it way "back in the day." When I needed an HD box I picked up one of the TWC HD DVRs with Passport. Mostly it sucked compared to Tivo but now that we have the blue abortion I appreciate just how nice Passport was. Supposedly they switched because the government is requiring that they have an "open system" for their cable software so that other companies can make cable boxes that work with TWC.

Regardless of the reason I find it amazing that I'm paying more and more every month on my cable bill while at the same time getting crappier and crappier performance out of their hardware. There is no way I'm going to fork out the cash for a Tivo S3 AND still pay their monthly fee so I guess I'll hold out and see how CableCard works with the MCE built into Vista.
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post #96 of 18753 Old 12-20-2006, 01:30 PM
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There a lot of changes coming in cable. Unfortunately, you guys in Nebraska are really at the Bleeding Edge with the Navigator development. I would that you will see many improvements taking place over time (hopefully, short time).

One of the changes that will be coming is an increased use of Switched Digital Video. CableCard (at least the current one way implementation) will not work for that. I would avoid making any major investments in anything that depended on CableCard.

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post #97 of 18753 Old 12-20-2006, 03:28 PM
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[quote=BigMatt]...now that we have the blue abortion...QUOTE]

haha ha nice. can we get the thread title changed to match this new name. much catchier than navigator.
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post #98 of 18753 Old 12-23-2006, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post

BTW Comcast has signed up with TIVO to handle their DVR function, does anyone know it they every launch the product?

I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression Tivo software will be an option, probably at a slightly higher monthly cost. Anyone know for sure?

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post #99 of 18753 Old 12-23-2006, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression Tivo software will be an option, probably at a slightly higher monthly cost. Anyone know for sure?

That is correct. The TiVo software for Motorola DVRs on the Comcast Cable systems has not been released. Click here for more info on when it might be released.

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post #100 of 18753 Old 12-27-2006, 10:02 AM
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FYI,

WHarrel over on the Explorer 8300HD w/SATA thread is reporting success in hooking up a fresh external drive on Navigator/Mystro. There is of course still the question of long term reliability, and whether previous SATA/Passport content will be preserved, but this is a good sign.

Can someone with Navigator post some hi-res photos of the interface so we can see what y'all are talking about? As a SARA user I can't imagine the interface being *more* ugly!

Also - for those coming from Passport - on Sara we use the 'instant replay' button to stop a fast forward through commercials to mimic the 'human reaction time' feature of Tivo/Passport - you might give that a try.

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post #101 of 18753 Old 12-27-2006, 09:31 PM
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You should be able to include links now. You have to make 5 posts before you can include a link.

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post #102 of 18753 Old 12-27-2006, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post


There are screen examples on Time Warner Cable San Diego and Nebraska sites. Google both these and you can sample the screen and read the explaination why they are forcing this junk on us. But it really boils down to money, they don't have to pay Aptiv for Passport software.

Those pictures are tiny, and don't show a lot of what people are complaining about - the on screen display while fast forwarding, the actual guide etc. It would be nice if someone could take some pics and put the up on Flickr or something.

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post #103 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kcmotwcuser View Post

The ugly we all are talking about is what I think all you SARA users already see. Since from what I gather, Navigator was built on SARA as this is SA's guide. So if you have SARA you already know what we Passport users call ugly. I have not had any luck putting in links on here. If someone can tell me how to do that I put in links to these sites.

There are screen examples on Time Warner Cable San Diego and Nebraska sites. Google both these and you can sample the screen and read the explaination why they are forcing this junk on us. But it really boils down to money, they don't have to pay Aptiv for Passport software.

They say that we will get more features in the future, like shopping from your TV, ordering a pizza, checking your Ebay bids. But don't get me wrong, but I thought that was what they sell Roadrunner for. I would rather have a guide that at least works as well as the one they are replacing, not turn back the time so I can check Ebay on my TV. These should be additional features not replace functional features we already have.

Navigator is slow because it is fat and hogs all the memory on the cable box. Remember some of these boxes are almost 10 years old and Navigator has to work on them as well as your new 8300HD DVR. Aptiv has made Passport trim and fast on even these old boxes. But that is what they do, they write software and have been doing it for years.

SARA users may see improvements. As I gather it is really clunky too. I have not seen SARA except for screen shots on other Divisions sites.


I'm a SARA user/sufferer. Have been for about 1.25 years now. Hasn't been a terrific experience, to say the least.

What I see on those pages has a faint resemblance to SARA, particularly the "guide". There do seem to be some advancements over SARA :

- Obviously, the graphics are light years ahead of SARA's Fisher-Price GUI.
- You can use a "Ouija board" type input to select the name of a show.
- It maintains a proper listing of recordings that recorded, or didn't record (and why).
- Appears to be more configurable for the user.

I recognize that the Navigator is a significant step backwards for folks who are used to the Passport software. However, please don't try to lump yourselves in with those of us who are subjected to SARA on a daily basis. We have enough problems in dealing with that SARA POS, that we have to hear your whining.
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post #104 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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What Paul said. You PASSPORT guys please try to remember, we know Navigator is a leap backwards for you, but it's still not as bad as SARA that we suffered with!

Now you guys really feel sorry for us, huh? You thought we were exagerrating.
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post #105 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 02:33 PM
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If they strip Passport from my DVRs and replace it with Navigator, it may be time to buy a Tivo Series 3 and trade in my SA8300HDs for a couple of Cablecards

I did the math, and aside from the purchase price of the Tivo box i'd be saving about $25 a month on my TWC bill and it would take about 3 years to break even. After that, i'd be money ahead.

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post #106 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 02:43 PM
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Those small 'screenshots' shown here, http://www.timewarnercable.com/sandi...atorintro.html, don't look that bad. I had Passport and not SARA, by the way. The one shown here, http://www.timewarnercable.com/sandi...navigator.html, looks kinda cheesy though with the color-coding in the guide.
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post #107 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

If they strip Passport from my DVRs and replace it with Navigator, it may be time to buy a Tivo Series 3 and trade in my SA8300HDs for a couple of Cablecards

Not if my understanding of the technology is accurate and you live in an area where TWC plans to deploy Switched Digital Video ("SDV"). One of TW's stated rationales for implementing Navigator is the inability of Passport (but not SARA) to support SDV. SDV, however, will not work with the current generation of Cablecards. Will a Tivo bought today accept a future generation of Cablecards that supports SDV?

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post #108 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 02:49 PM
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Trust me Navigator is light years ahead of Sara.We with Sara look forward to Navigator.Wish we all had passport but not to be.You would love Navigator if you had to live with Sara the last 4 years.Trust e Navigator coud never be as frustrating as Sara.If you Pasport users saw the Sara search options you would cry for us.Manual recording never worked as it should.When one glitch was fixd another popped up.In Geensbor we are on Sara 1.87.24 and never ad first run til last year.Guess we will never see the Sara 1.88 enhancements.Anyone have any idea when Sara users will get Navigator.So passport folks be glad for what you had morn what your loseing.Sara folks just gitty at loseing Sara.
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post #109 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 02:56 PM
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Oe last thing Passport folks.At least TWC did not switch everone to SARA.Navigator may not be Passport but if you had lived with SARA fireworks instead of moans would be in the air.
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post #110 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 04:33 PM
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Oe last thing Passport folks.At least TWC did not switch everone to SARA.Navigator may not be Passport but if you had lived with SARA fireworks instead of moans would be in the air.

I've heard someone (Dianna) from TW who has experience with both say that SARA is better than Passport - and that is why they are replacing Passport first. I understand that Passport is more "TiVo-Like" and that's why TiVo users like it. But, frankly, I've (and lots of other folks) have been pretty happy with SARA (and I've been particularly happy for the last 1 1/2 years with my External Drive - which even now does not work properly on Passport.

PS: I think that Manatus' comment about SDV is really one of those issues. There is a lot of things that cable wants to do that apparently Passport won't (or can't) support.

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post #111 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

I've heard someone (Dianna) from TW who has experience with both say that SARA is better than Passport - and that is why they are replacing Passport first. I understand that Passport is more "TiVo-Like" and that's why TiVo users like it. But, frankly, I've (and lots of other folks) have been pretty happy with SARA (and I've been particularly happy for the last 1 1/2 years with my External Drive - which even now does not work properly on Passport.

Then Diana either hasn't seen PASSPORT or she's telling you a story. There's no comparison other than the external drive feature. But as I've said many times, SARA could have a googlebyte drive in it, it wouldn't matter because I wouldn't use it.

When she had her "asking for input" thread, it was quite obvious that she'd never even seen a TiVo. I'm not sure how you can put someone in a position like that when they don't even know what's out there in the market for competition.

EDIT: I see you wrote that she "has experience with both". Then I can only surmise that she was telling you a story. I have SARA, my best friend has PASSPORT. I've used them both. There's no comparison. It's a woodshed beatin'. She's spinning you a story to keep the SARA users happy and because the Navigator is SARA-esque.
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post #112 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Manatus View Post

Not if my understanding of the technology is accurate and you live in an area where TWC plans to deploy Switched Digital Video ("SDV"). One of TW's stated rationales for implementing Navigator is the inability of Passport (but not SARA) to support SDV. SDV, however, will not work with the current generation of Cablecards. Will a Tivo bought today accept a future generation of Cablecards that supports SDV?

Caution about SDV is certainly advised. But it depends on the area you are in and what their plans are. My TWC is already using some SDV and I still bought an S3.

I contacted the president of our local TWC franchise and he told me that although he could not make any promises, at this time they had no plans to put any HD channels on SDV. And they certainly won't put any heavily watched channels on it. What they DID put on it so far was some of the west coast duplicate feeds of channels. That's fine with me.

But rest assured if my channels start disappearing, I'll just dump TWC and go with satellite.

And if CableCard 2.0 ever gets finalized and in place, then I'll buy a TiVo S4 with 2 way support and be happy.
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post #113 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

Then Diana either hasn't seen PASSPORT or she's telling you a story.

As I said in the last part of my post (which, as typical, you choose to ignore) is that there are apparently lots of things that cable (TW) wants to do* and Passport won't. That is likely why they are replacing Passport first!

*Things like using SDV to bring more HD channels, nDVR, or Start-Over.

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post #114 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 05:13 PM
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Why would Aptiv not *want* to add features that ALL cable companies are moving to ?? If it's an issue of they *can't*, well, that's a different matter. Choosing to ignore the direction the cableco industry is heading is suicide.

As for Diana saying SARA was "better", maybe better to TWC means lower software cost and maintenance fees. SA doesn't hide API functions and features, do they ?? That is, not document properly how to do certain things to make life more difficult for Aptiv.
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post #115 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

As I said in the last part of my post (which, as typical, you choose to ignore) is that there are apparently lots of things that cable (TW) wants to do* and Passport won't. That is likely why they are replacing Passport first!

*Things like using SDV to bring more HD channels, nDVR, or Start-Over.

The hardware can obviously support those features. That's a given, since those features run fine elsewhere on the same platform.

It's then down to the software. Anything can be done in software provided you've got enough skill, time and money. My bet's that TWC is short on all three. I bet you TWC blanched at the cost to get Passport to support these new features, so they're going to cheap out instead and try to hack up SARA to do it instead. Which is craptacular idea, because as we all know, the SARA codebase is as rickety as a 200 year old outhouse.

nDVR is essentially a VOD technology. Not rocket science.

Start-Over is essentially a fusion between live-buffering DVR operations and VOD. Also not rocket science.

Why these clowns can't get this code to work without blowing up at every turn, every upgrade, every slightly imperfect situation amazes me as a software engineer. Frankly, it smacks of sloppy/crappy code writing.

Instead, they chose to go cheap and go it alone, rather than go with the superior code platform. It's gonna bite 'em in the ass in the end. Guaranteed. I hope you folks are ready for a loooooooong wait before those features are ever rolled out in a stable fashion, if ever.
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post #116 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 05:31 PM
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Since TW's Diana is being paraphrased here today, I've looked up what she actually said:

SC is SARA and while Passport may have a couple of more functionality niceties on the guide, I wouldn't trade to Passport for all the tea in China. No Passport Divisions can get CID on TV, Enhanced TV, SDV, Start Over, Quick Clips, Sports Trackers, etc until they get MDN. As a result, Passport Divisions will get the MDN prior to SARA, so that they can become as technically capable as your system is now.

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post #117 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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As I said in the last part of my post (which, as typical, you choose to ignore)

I edited my post to correct it and posted again before you could even post this.

And I didn't notice it for the first few seconds because it couldn't possibly have been true. She's telling you a story.
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post #118 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 07:15 PM
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I edited my post to correct it and posted again before you could even post this.

And I didn't notice it for the first few seconds because it couldn't possibly have been true. She's telling you a story.

And you STILL FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE that from a cable perspective that there are features that SARA has and Passport does not. Features that they need (SDV for example) in order to deliver more HD to their customers. Did you not read the post Manatus made about an hour BEFORE you made this one? (You probably skipped by it as it does not serve your purpose of bashing SARA).

Dave Hancock
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post #119 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 07:19 PM
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post #120 of 18753 Old 12-28-2006, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

I contacted the president of our local TWC franchise and he told me that although he could not make any promises, at this time they had no plans to put any HD channels on SDV. And they certainly won't put any heavily watched channels on it.

He said they won't put any heavily watched channels on SDV? Why not? Here in Honolulu, CNN and FOOD, among others, have start-over now. I guess that means those two channels are on SDV.

I thought the connection between SD and HD was that SD frees up bandwidth to make more HD channels possible. That would not imply that the HD channels themselves are on SD.

[SARA 1.87.16.a109]

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