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post #12721 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by hdtvfan2005 View Post

...it would fix a few bugs.

Likely add some, too... the last update fixed a bunch of stuff but added the extended pause lockup bug. No free lunch around here!

Commercial AV Design Engineer, CTS-D Certified
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post #12722 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Yes, the customer pointed out to me that he used to use the channel banner to scroll through the current channel and hit select when he saw his show. That was on an 8300HDC with SARA. Both of the other features you mentioned are nt in our version of Navigator yet. I upgraded him to an 8640HDC yesterday.

On a side note, I've found two little Easter Eggs in the software for our division. If you directly enter channel 1990 you will get a Diagnostic screen with your version of Navigator. It's only two pages of data, but it's a quick check that doesn't require you to go into the full diagnostic menu. Also, direct entry of channel 1997 will give you a Navigator Install screen which looks like it a way to force a download to the box or dump the info to the headend. The channels are hidden from the guide so you won't see them there. I believe most divisions have them, but they are different channels depending on the division.

Those "hidden" channels don't show up on a regular [Ch Up]/[Ch Dn] scan, but they do show up in the Favorites List. You can search for their existence there, and if you add them as favorites a [Fav] scan will tune them.

Here, the installer channel loads the TW Installer App... there is a bit of information to be gleaned there, but you need to enter an installer ID and workorder number to actually do anything.

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post #12723 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

All true... but as the legacy box numbers are reduced from attrition, a point will be reached where the effort to upgrade MDN will be deemed to be not worth it. Not saying we're there yet, or even very soon (hell, there are still Pioneer Voyager and Explorer 1000 boxes out there... 8300HDs are brand new in comparison, lol)... but it will happen.

On the money... but keep in mind that "roll out" timing (referring more to Jack's original post) is generally way, way short of expectations. I believe MDN 2.5.x first rolled out 6 months ago. Somehow or other, I will be shocked if my area got it by the end of this year.

When we got gatrored, I thought that was the end of 8300HDs being given out... but folks are still getting them 2 years later. Just making a wild-a**ed guess, but I bet you we will see such boxes for 3 plus years more.

In all likelihood this is attributable to the virtual lock in most cable MSOs have. Yes, TiVO & Moxi exist, but given the move to SDV, such folk can be in for some hurting (look at all 3 tuner Moxis, in most areas, SDV means you completely lose the functionality of that third tuner... not to mention Moxi apparently will ONLY sell new 3 tuners boxes going forward).

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post #12724 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

My main reason other than that is I see MDN 4 getting big improvements over what we have now and I'm looking forward to those.

I know it was considered odd that I got a version of MDN nobody else seemed to have, but I isolated it to just my head end AND consider it realistically the same as everyone else has... after all, it was just the last doublet that was different.

We certainly have seen major new versions typically rolling out in SD to NC first before they percolate to other areas. Does ANYONE else have a 3.x version of MDN? That is certainly a major version upgrade from what is out there... I see some significant changes for the 2.4.x version most seem to have over the 2.5.x rev that the few and the lucky have. If you are running a 3.x version of MDN, one would think it has to have significant upgrades for 2.5.x.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but are you really sure of the version you are reporting? Right now, ODN is generally 3.x deployed with the start of some chatter about 4.x ODN. But even there, there are significant ODN features in the 3.2.x range that have yet to deploy to more than 15% of the country (guess as to the %).

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post #12725 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 01:14 PM
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I had a truck roll today due to my 8300HD losing HDMI. (component still works.) I kept the 8300 because my eSATA has about 55 hours I haven't watched yet. But the tech had a few Samsungs, a few 8300HDCs and 6 8640s on the truck. I was actually hoping he might have a 8300HD which I know will work with the eSATA. But I couldn't pass up a chance to play with a 8640 so I took one. I may try to clean off my drive and see if it will work on the 8640, we have ODN 3.2.

The tech said that they were issued about 2 months ago. SO, you Raleigh folks who are wanting one, they are out there. Now, my local office in Chapel Hill only has 8300HDCs. I am not sure about the other offices. The tech said that the payment centers and the tech trucks are on two seperate systems as far as issuing STB and DVRs. If for some reason he needs another box during the day, he can't go into a local office and pick one up. He has to drive all the way back to his dispatch office, (I think he said it was in Cary), to be issued additional ones. So that leaves the possibility that only the trucks got issued 8640s.

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post #12726 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 01:32 PM
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Which of the Cisco 86XX model boxes has TWC put into service? I found this link that lists them http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10348/products_data_sheets_list.html. Interesting that a 8652 HD is not listed.

I figured out that the 864X boxes have a digital tuner and the 865X boxes have a analog and digital tuner. However the 86X2 boxes "includes the
Ethernet and MoCA configurations as standard" What are those exactly? I know it has something to do with delivering content over a LAN. Does TWC currently have any features that use these? Is this what is required for the multi-room deal? Has TWC deployed any 86X2 boxes anywhere?

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post #12727 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCHeel View Post

Which of the Cisco 86XX model boxes has TWC put into service? I found this link that lists them http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10348/products_data_sheets_list.html. Interesting that a 8652 HD is not listed.

I figured out that the 864X boxes have a digital tuner and the 865X boxes have a analog and digital tuner. However the 86X2 boxes "includes the
Ethernet and MoCA configurations as standard" What are those exactly? I know it has something to do with delivering content over a LAN. Does TWC currently have any features that use these? Is this what is required for the multi-room deal? Has TWC deployed any 86X2 boxes anywhere?

MoCA (Multimedia over Coax Alliance), in its broadest definition, is a means of establishing an IP LAN link over coax cabling. Some vendors such as D-Link have MoCA modems that do just that... and are not tied to a specific functionality - they are just wired Ethernet bridges. In the context of TWC STBs, MoCA is the protocol that TWC will use to establish its Multiroom DVR service, where one DVR can act as a server to a client STB, allowing the client STB to control and view programming stored on the server DVR. The coax cabling that is already connected to the boxes will be the transmission medium. Besides requiring boxes that support MoCA communications and have the software required to use it, MoCA will also require the use of special RF splitters that will allow the boxes to communicate and also prevent that communication from getting out of the house.

The Ethernet port is just another IP communications port, but it's not clear if/how it might be utilized by TWC. The Cisco literature states that the port...

"

enables a connection to the home IP LAN for advanced services such as content sharing to the set-top from retail-purchased electronic devices".
That sounds like the box might be a DLNA client... no mention of streaming content residing on the box to other devices (i.e, not a DLNA server).

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post #12728 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

I know it was considered odd that I got a version of MDN nobody else seemed to have, but I isolated it to just my head end AND consider it realistically the same as everyone else has... after all, it was just the last doublet that was different.

We certainly have seen major new versions typically rolling out in SD to NC first before they percolate to other areas. Does ANYONE else have a 3.x version of MDN? That is certainly a major version upgrade from what is out there... I see some significant changes for the 2.4.x version most seem to have over the 2.5.x rev that the few and the lucky have. If you are running a 3.x version of MDN, one would think it has to have significant upgrades for 2.5.x.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but are you really sure of the version you are reporting? Right now, ODN is generally 3.x deployed with the start of some chatter about 4.x ODN. But even there, there are significant ODN features in the 3.2.x range that have yet to deploy to more than 15% of the country (guess as to the %).

Yes, my versions are accurate (in my sig). However, I made an error in that quote. I meant ODN 4, not MDN 4 ... Sorry for the confusion.

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post #12729 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Yes, my versions are accurate (in my sig). However, I made an error in that quote. I meant ODN 4, not MDN 4 ... Sorry for the confusion.

Ben,

Can't say for sure, but its possible that your MDN 3.0 might be an exclusive Gator build for the carry over from SARA systems. Because the new features that I had mentioned for Florida and North Carolina subs on MDN 2.5 AFAIK came from a Passport to Gator transfer. I think you had mentioned ODN having Sort by Favorites and in most divisions Sort by Favorites was removed to prepare the boxes for a new feature (both MDN/ODN) called Guide Filtering. There are rumors floating around that Guide Filtering will expand the sorting process to allow the following:

Favorite Channels
Subscribed Channels
Themed Channels
HD Channels

Than you filter what you want.

We can make a game on the forum guessing what the next big Gator update is gonna be! LOL!

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post #12730 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

MoCA (Multimedia over Coax Alliance), in its broadest definition, is a means of establishing an IP LAN link over coax cabling.\\.

So anyone know what happens to my already existing MoCA network setup? Do I need to use another MoCA channel, or will they coexist?

(see my thread here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1145636 )

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post #12731 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

You subs in Charlotte are so lucky because you get all the new Gator features first...............damn! LOL! Jack

Well both my DVRs are still on 2.4.6-19 so not all of us get everything first.

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BTW, what is the TWC fee for a second DVR, and any subsequent DVR? I heard between $8-$10. Is it like the first DVR is $10 a month and all subsequent ones are $8 extra?

That might be the only muti-room DVR turn-off, the cost involved. Unless of course TWC would be willing to deal on individual cases.

Jack

Like Ben, I pay an additional $20 for the second DVR. $10 for the box and $10 for the DVR service.

I was not told if there was an additional multi-room fee, but this is TWC so I think that it is safe to assume there will be an additional fee.

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Also, you shouldn't need two DVR's for Multi Room. If you have an 8640 DVR in one room and a 4640 non-DVR in another room, you should be able to call up your shows from the non-DVR. That was my plan, however, if the pricing structure changes, it would be nice to have 4 available tuners and mix n' match. That said, I've found that just about EVERY cable net show I record is re-run later at night after original airing, so I usually balance my tuners that way.

Yes, you don't have to have 2 DVRs, but 2 tuners isn't enough in our house because it seems like all the shows we want to watch are on at the same time. I also like the ability to pause live tv.

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Originally Posted by hdtvfan2005 View Post

FioS only allows for 1 Multi room DVR. This could very well happen with TWC. I'm sure with newer protocols, it might be expanded, but that would require an even newer box.

TWC San Diego has a deal where an additional DVR can be had for $2 month over the standard HD box fee. This is a good deal, as you could have more DVR's for $10 a month.

I was specifically told that I would be able to use 2 DVRs.

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Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

MoCA (Multimedia over Coax Alliance), in its broadest definition, is a means of establishing an IP LAN link over coax cabling. Some vendors such as D-Link have MoCA modems that do just that... and are not tied to a specific functionality - they are just wired Ethernet bridges. In the context of TWC STBs, MoCA is the protocol that TWC will use to establish its Multiroom DVR service, where one DVR can act as a server to a client STB, allowing the client STB to control and view programming stored on the server DVR. The coax cabling that is already connected to the boxes will be the transmission medium. Besides requiring boxes that support MoCA communications and have the software required to use it, MoCA will also require the use of special RF splitters that will allow the boxes to communicate and also prevent that communication from getting out of the house.

Yes, I was told the same thing because we probably have the same source. A truck roll will be required because both new boxes and a special splitter have to be installed.
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post #12732 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mfogarty5 View Post

Yes, I was told the same thing because we probably have the same source.

My sources: Anything from "our" source re: MoCA is what he's posted here at AVS.

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post #12733 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 10:14 PM
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Here is an update reguarding my MDN Navigator. I checked tonight by going to the diagnostic channel and it has my Navigator Version as Atlas 2.4.6-19, but when I go back into the internal diagnostics it still shows as what I have in my sig? Very strange.

Also, at my fathers tonight doing some install work I checked his 8300HD and he doesn't have a diagnostic channel like we do. I scanned the fav list and tried what ours are here. He is off the Utica headend and I'm off the Rome headend, so that is likely the difference.

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post #12734 of 18920 Old 06-29-2010, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Also, at my fathers tonight doing some install work I checked his 8300HD and he doesn't have a diagnostic channel like we do. I scanned the fav list and tried what ours are here. He is off the Utica headend and I'm off the Rome headend, so that is likely the difference.

The position of the diagnostic channel varies around the country depending on your channel region. Here it used to be 999.


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post #12735 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

The position of the diagnostic channel varies around the country depending on your channel region. Here it used to be 999.

I'm completely aware of that, but we are in the same division. He is just on a different headend.

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post #12736 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 12:24 AM
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Tip,

If you have your TV and Cable box set up to turn on and off at the same time, on some of the boxes, it may take between 20-30 seconds from the time you first see the picture when turning the set on, to the time when all menus are functional and synchronized. I just noticed this last night. Hope it's not a box issue.

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post #12737 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

Tip,

If you have your TV and Cable box set up to turn on and off at the same time, on some of the boxes, it may take between 20-30 seconds from the time you first see the picture when turning the set on, to the time when all menus are functional and synchronized. I just noticed this last night. Hope it's not a box issue.

Jack

Everyone's been out of service in my area. (For about an hour or more.) I just called and there was a busy signal. Why they don't publish scheduled maintenance or updates on-line is ridiculous.

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post #12738 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mfogarty5 View Post

Well both my DVRs are still on 2.4.6-19 so not all of us get everything first.

Somehow I though Charlotte had 2.5.x MDN... or maybe I'm not carving up NC into the proper areas...

Time Warner NYC (Man North Head End) - 8742HD DVR ODN 5.2.0_9

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post #12739 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Here is an update reguarding my MDN Navigator. I checked tonight by going to the diagnostic channel and it has my Navigator Version as Atlas 2.4.6-19, but when I go back into the internal diagnostics it still shows as what I have in my sig? Very strange.

Thanks Ben, yes I also very much notice multiple versions attached to various things, but I SUSPECT some of those may be what could be called sub-routines. I to can come up with a bunch of "version" numbers in my diagnostics and I think there are a few extra savvy folks that follow those numbers.

I think the next milestone for MDN folk is getting 2.5.x, there certainly seems to be some smallish software changes from what we typically have. Keep in mind that to the best of my reading, this 2.5.x version frst went public around the beginning of this year, so it remains to be seen exactly how long they take to get it deployed across their systems.

The thing that first struck me was your MDN version seemed to be exactly the same as the most widely deployed ODN version.

Time Warner NYC (Man North Head End) - 8742HD DVR ODN 5.2.0_9

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post #12740 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

The position of the diagnostic channel varies around the country depending on your channel region. Here it used to be 999.

Here it's 996. 6 pages worth. Only other thing of note is under MDN, it takes a LOT longer for those pages to appear then it used to take under Passport. After being 'gatored, I thought this function went away because it didn't seem to come up. Then I saw it did, just took a LOT longer for it to appear.

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post #12741 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

I think the next milestone for MDN folk is getting 2.5.x, there certainly seems to be some smallish software changes from what we typically have. Keep in mind that to the best of my reading, this 2.5.x version frst went public around the beginning of this year, so it remains to be seen exactly how long they take to get it deployed across their systems.

The thing that first struck me was your MDN version seemed to be exactly the same as the most widely deployed ODN version.

Well, there was the line in my diagnostics that said "MDN 2.5 Dev". I still think I'm going to hang on to my 8640 and get a 4640 for the bedroom because at some point TWC will deploy Whole Home DVR and the 8300 isn't going to be able to accomodate it. The 8640 and 4640 have ethernet built in for networking and If they deploy the 8642 and 4642, those will have MoCa capability. I don't see MDN getting these features because the hardware just can't support it.

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post #12742 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

The position of the diagnostic channel varies around the country depending on your channel region. Here it used to be 999.

I believe "hold the blue SELECT button" for a while until you get a flashing light on the display. Then "Arrow Down" to access diagnostic screens works on Navigator if you do not have a channel and may give more info. Right/Left arrow step through pages. Many pages into it to find the software versions, and there are a few on the page. /Dan
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post #12743 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 03:25 PM
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Service was restored. Looked like routine maintience gone wrong,

But what I don't understand is why they do not have a notice of scheduled maintenance times along with some communications as to time of completion? Customers should be able to go to any local website, see that system maintenance is being done, along with a completion time.

Their current method is "Guess what we might be doing when service is out and call to get a busy signal." There needs to be a 100% improvement turnaround in customer communication in dealing with service outages.

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post #12744 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

Service was restored. Looked like routine maintience gone wrong,

But what I don't understand is why they do not have a notice of scheduled maintenance times along with some communications as to time of completion? Customers should be able to go to any local website, see that system maintenance is being done, along with a completion time.

Their current method is "Guess what we might be doing when service is out and call to get a busy signal." There needs to be a 100% improvement turnaround in customer communication in dealing with service outages.

Jack

try this logic: if you have TW cable, most likely you have Road Runner for internet access. if cable is down, most likely RR is down
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post #12745 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 05:52 PM
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Are there any tricks to using two STBs in the same room and not having the remote signals control both at the same time?

I have my 8300HD and a new 8640HDC. I have them hooked up to my monitor for some A/B comparisons of ODN and MDN and to make sure all my series recordings are entered into the 8640. But since both boxes are SA design, they are both operating from the remotes signals. I tried covering up the IR receiver of the 8300 but it some how manages to get through. I even used a thick towel at one point. I have been turning one on manually and then going from there but that doesn't let me quickly change inputs on my monitor to go to the other STB.

On another front, I could swear the 8300 is confused by the fact that the 8640 is there. I has done that long countdown re-boot 4 times today. And when I swap back and forth between STBs, sometimes the 8300 gets hung up. It will get stuck and then all of a sudden it will perform all the backed up commands in quick succession.

TWC Raleigh, NC
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post #12746 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgcss View Post

try this logic: if you have TW cable, most likely you have Road Runner for internet access. if cable is down, most likely RR is down

Amazingly,

Road Runner stayed on the whole time during the outage! But a guy on one of the local forums did have RR issues the other day.

Jack

SA-8300HDC DVR with TWC Navigator Guide
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Metro-Milwaukee Wisconsin
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post #12747 of 18920 Old 06-30-2010, 09:57 PM
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Well the cisco boxes are becoming wide spread... Went to Watertown thinking it was worth a shot and low and behold two 8640 are now in my possesion thought this day would never be here !!!!!!!

TIVO HD (SERIES 4)
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post #12748 of 18920 Old 07-01-2010, 03:07 AM
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Well the cisco boxes are becoming wide spread... Went to Watertown thinking it was worth a shot and low and behold two 8640 are now in my possession thought this would ever be here !!!!!!!

Mr. Wonka has given you, Abyss, the Golden Gator Factory!!! From waiting for any Gator over a month ago, to some of the fastest gators out there!!!! As Wonka would say,

"Abyss, don't forget about the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted."

Abyss, "What happened to him?"

Wonka: "He lived happily ever after!!!"

Jack

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post #12749 of 18920 Old 07-01-2010, 05:02 AM
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Well the cisco boxes are becoming wide spread... Went to Watertown thinking it was worth a shot and low and behold two 8640 are now in my possesion thought this would ever be here !!!!!!!

Sweet. I've decided to hang onto my 8300HD for a bit until I catch up on my recorded shows. I'm transferring my Series Recordings over to my 8640. Abyss, let me know if you want a bigger hard drive in it!

Eventually my plan is to return the 8300 for a 4640 and use that in the bedroom (unless TWC makes their DVR fee more realistic which is not likely). I'll be ready to run CAT5e cable to them once Whole Home DVR is available which for me is easier than having a Gateway installed.

Abyss, give us your review of the 8640. I want to compare your performance with mine.

8/30/2013 - Time Warner Liberation Day!
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post #12750 of 18920 Old 07-01-2010, 08:57 AM
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Well let 's put it this way i no longer miss my the 8300hdc. What i like probably the most is that it reboots so fast. It's very sllick in terms of quick functionality. I now see why the division went with these pretty looking boxes. How do you how much hard space you have on them anyone know ? Our CNY division a year ago was boarding on getting an " F " but as of late earns a " B "....now only if we can those must have Hd channels Nick Hd ...Spike HD etc..

TIVO HD (SERIES 4)
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