Closed Captions from DVR? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 11-29-2006, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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When I play back from DVR I cannot get closed captions. Either when turning on the DVR CC (Motorola 6412) or the 1080p TV CC (Digital or Analog). The CC are there when viewing material real time but the same material when played back does not have CC. THis is for HD material. Is there a way to get the CC to work via the DVR?
thanks
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post #2 of 19 Old 11-29-2006, 08:33 AM
 
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Yes, I have had no problems with displaying CC from my Motorola DVRs. Whenever CC were not displayed, it was because of the connections I made. Also, note that the correct way of enabling CC differs for analog and digital, so you're actually asking TWO questions. I'll be glad to help you answer both.

So first, please describe how your DVR is connected to your television.
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post #3 of 19 Old 11-29-2006, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

Yes, I have had no problems with displaying CC from my Motorola DVRs. Whenever CC were not displayed, it was because of the connections I made. Also, note that the correct way of enabling CC differs for analog and digital, so you're actually asking TWO questions. I'll be glad to help you answer both.

So first, please describe how your DVR is connected to your television.

via HDMI and cannot see captions if I turn on either DVR CC or TV CC during DVR playback (analog or digital) when viewing 1080i material. Otherwise I do see them with real time 1080i material via the DVR.
thx!
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post #4 of 19 Old 11-30-2006, 03:43 AM
 
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I also have my Motorola DVR connected to my television via HDMI, so you'll be concerned about digital Closed Captioning. Digital Closed Captioning is enabled in the system USER SETTINGS menu There is a trick there, though. It is not enough to ENABLE the Closed Captioning, set SERVICE SELECTION ANALOG to CC1 and DIGITAL to PRIMARY LANGAUGE. You should also set SETTINGS to USER (this is the last item on the menu, before RESTORE ALL DEFAULTS). I assume you have YPbPr set to 1080I and 4:3 OVERRIDE set to 480I.
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post #5 of 19 Old 11-30-2006, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

I also have my Motorola DVR connected to my television via HDMI, so you'll be concerned about digital Closed Captioning. Digital Closed Captioning is enabled in the system USER SETTINGS menu There is a trick there, though. It is not enough to ENABLE the Closed Captioning, set SERVICE SELECTION ANALOG to CC1 and DIGITAL to PRIMARY LANGAUGE. You should also set SETTINGS to USER (this is the last item on the menu, before RESTORE ALL DEFAULTS). I assume you have YPbPr set to 1080I and 4:3 OVERRIDE set to 480I.

no...why would I want to set the HD material to 480I/

I dont have any of the settings you mention on the DVR for service selection etc. Only captions yes or no.
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post #6 of 19 Old 11-30-2006, 10:49 AM
 
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You're setting the 4:3 OVERRIDE to 480I -- that's not HD material. The other setting, the YPbPr setting, controls the output for HD material.

You may not have the same software running on your Motorola box as I do. Where are you located? (Washington State runs different software, I know.)
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post #7 of 19 Old 11-30-2006, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

You're setting the 4:3 OVERRIDE to 480I -- that's not HD material. The other setting, the YPbPr setting, controls the output for HD material.

You may not have the same software running on your Motorola box as I do. Where are you located? (Washington State runs different software, I know.)

I see. YOu mean changing the setting on how the non HD channels are decoded. There is a setting for that but not exactly like you describe, ie there is no ypbpr setting.....its something like 1080i and another for sidebars I think. I can play with it and see what happens.

I have Cox in SoCal.

I called tech support and he said that the HD channels use a subcarriers that doesnt get recorded or processed when played back and thats why I dont see captions on playback. I can see that being related to your fix. Maybe by subcarrier he means a signal on the SD version of the HD channel? and you fix might grab it and overlay on the HD?
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post #8 of 19 Old 11-30-2006, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sewround View Post

I have Cox in SoCal.

I called tech support and he said that the HD channels use a subcarriers that doesnt get recorded or processed when played back and thats why I dont see captions on playback.

Your problem sounds somewhat familiar. I have had Cox digital cable service (in Phoenix) since last December, and it seems to me that when I first tried it, I couldn't get captions to work on the DVR at all: "live" or on recordings. But I'm sure that as of about six months ago they were working OK, because I know I depended on them sometimes to figure out some of the dialog on Creature Comforts (probably a show you've never heard of, on BBC America). I just checked, and the captions are working fine on the HD Wheel of Fortune I recorded last night.

But our DVR isn't from Motorola: it's the SA8300HD. The captions depend on a setting that I can get by pushing the "settings" button on the remote twice, and scrolling to "CC: Source". My settings are "Std CC1", "Digital 1". They sound like factory defaults: I don't recall if I had to fiddle with those settings to get the captions to work.

The thing I haven't had much success with is SAP, and I think that may be what the tech was thinking of when he mentioned a subcarrier. In an NTSC signal, SAP is sent on a subcarrier, and closed captioning is sent during the vertical blanking interval. Of course with digital, neither subcarriers nor VBI apply. The only way I'm sure I can get SAP is by using my set's NTSC tuner and picking up the analog signal from the cable: this is mainly useful on certain PBS shows such as Masterpiece Theater where the SAP carries their Descriptive Video Service.

Don't know if any of the above will be of any help, but I just wanted to say that it is possible to see captions on a HD show recorded using a Cox-provided DVR. I hope you can find a solution to your problem.

Ron

Ron (Cox Phoenix AZ) SA 8300HD, Passport Echo 3.1.085, OS PowerTV 6.14.98.1sp
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post #9 of 19 Old 11-30-2006, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta View Post

Your problem sounds somewhat familiar. I have had Cox digital cable service (in Phoenix) since last December, and it seems to me that when I first tried it, I couldn't get captions to work on the DVR at all: "live" or on recordings. But I'm sure that as of about six months ago they were working OK, because I know I depended on them sometimes to figure out some of the dialog on Creature Comforts (probably a show you've never heard of, on BBC America). I just checked, and the captions are working fine on the HD Wheel of Fortune I recorded last night.

But our DVR isn't from Motorola: it's the SA8300HD. The captions depend on a setting that I can get by pushing the "settings" button on the remote twice, and scrolling to "CC: Source". My settings are "Std CC1", "Digital 1". They sound like factory defaults: I don't recall if I had to fiddle with those settings to get the captions to work.

The thing I haven't had much success with is SAP, and I think that may be what the tech was thinking of when he mentioned a subcarrier. In an NTSC signal, SAP is sent on a subcarrier, and closed captioning is sent during the vertical blanking interval. Of course with digital, neither subcarriers nor VBI apply. The only way I'm sure I can get SAP is by using my set's NTSC tuner and picking up the analog signal from the cable: this is mainly useful on certain PBS shows such as Masterpiece Theater where the SAP carries their Descriptive Video Service.

Don't know if any of the above will be of any help, but I just wanted to say that it is possible to see captions on a HD show recorded using a Cox-provided DVR. I hope you can find a solution to your problem.

Ron

Thanks for that. I guess I need to figure out how to get into the setup of the DVR. Still trying. I think the techs get paid on how short a time you stay online. cuz they sure seem to want to point finger at the most riduculous things sometimes. Can tell you how many times their solution was to wiggle the cable on the back of the tv.
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post #10 of 19 Old 12-01-2006, 10:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sewround View Post

I called tech support and he said that the HD channels use a subcarriers that doesnt get recorded or processed when played back and thats why I dont see captions on playback. I can see that being related to your fix. Maybe by subcarrier he means a signal on the SD version of the HD channel? and you fix might grab it and overlay on the HD?

I'm not sure how to map what they told you to my experience. What I do know is that I never watch anything live, and I always have Closed Captions, except when the channel doesn't provide them (UHD, Discovery [in some cases], etc.)
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post #11 of 19 Old 12-01-2006, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

I'm not sure how to map what they told you to my experience. What I do know is that I never watch anything live, and I always have Closed Captions, except when the channel doesn't provide them (UHD, Discovery [in some cases], etc.)

i dont know how you "map" either. no idea what mapping is.
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-01-2006, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I fixed it. You need to get into the service menu.
to do that after quickly powering the unit down, press the menu button twice.

The digital captions were not turned on. Only the analog and thats why I could see them on the lower channels but not the uppers. You can also change the font, format, color etc there. Not sure why thats not part of the user menu.
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post #13 of 19 Old 12-01-2006, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta View Post

But I'm sure that as of about six months ago they were working OK, because I know I depended on them sometimes to figure out some of the dialog on Creature Comforts (probably a show you've never heard of, on BBC America).

Well I've heard of it - though being a Brit I'm lucky enough not to need subtitles (closed captions) to enjoy it! (Well the Creature Comforts short did win an Oscar in the early 90s as best Animated Short film)

Recording subtitles over here is just as complicated - with different methods for analogue and digital platforms. Most - but not all - digital platforms rely on the receiver rendering the subtitles not the display - but most DVR platforms now record the subtitle data for digital broadcasts. (The UK Tivo also records UK p888 subtitle data for analogue broadcasts)
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-02-2006, 03:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sewround View Post

I fixed it. You need to get into the service menu.
to do that after quickly powering the unit down, press the menu button twice.

Yup, that's pretty much what I mentioned in my 11-30 6:43 AM message. Glad you've gotten it to work.
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-02-2006, 03:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

Recording subtitles over here is just as complicated - with different methods for analogue and digital platforms. Most - but not all - digital platforms rely on the receiver rendering the subtitles not the display - but most DVR platforms now record the subtitle data for digital broadcasts.

That's standard practice everywhere, as far as I know. Analog CC is decoded at the display device (it travels down A/V video connections still encoded); digital CC is decoded at the tuner/playback device (it doesn't travel down component video, DVI or HDMI connections).
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post #16 of 19 Old 12-02-2006, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

That's standard practice everywhere, as far as I know. Analog CC is decoded at the display device (it travels down A/V video connections still encoded); digital CC is decoded at the tuner/playback device (it doesn't travel down component video, DVI or HDMI connections).

Yep - though over here in Europe some SD digital broadcasts contain a separate "World Systems Teletext" packet stream, that allows an SD digital receiver (cable, OTA or satellite - though the UK OTA implementation doesn't use this, though the German version does) to embed VBI Teletext data (including character based subtitles but also including the standard European text services like news, sports results, flight landing times, recipes, tv listings etc.) in the analogue signal output by the digital receiver.

Some receivers also provide decoding facilities, allowing you to either decode in the set top box or the TV display. (The former is useful if you want to record a VHS or DVD with burned in text subtitles - as unlike CC, Teletext is too high a frequency signal to survive VHS recording)

The UK OTA digital system (aka Freeview DVB-T) doesn't use WST text for subtitles or interactive text services - but instead uses DVB Subtitles (which are bit map rather than character based) and MHEG5 (which is a more advanced interactive text system).

Most UK OTA DVRs support DVB Subtitle recording these days - sadly Windows Media Center doesn't... (Which is a pity - as it is an otherwise excellent OTA DVB-T DVR solution)
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post #17 of 19 Old 12-03-2006, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
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You must first tune the DVR to a 1080i channel (the menu will not work otherwise). Then On the DVR front panel you turn off the power (with TV still on).

THen quickly after turning off the DVR power, push the menu button twice quckley. YOu will see 1080 in the DVR display and then the menu will appear on the TV screen. This only works on 1080i channels.
After enabling the digital captions here, all the selections for font etc will now appear in the user menu so no need to access here any longer.
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post #18 of 19 Old 03-06-2007, 01:31 PM
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My issue is not getting digital captions from my Motorola DCT-6416 to my Mitsubishi HD TV, but when digital captions are enabled on the cablebox I see them no matter how I select captions on the TV (On, Off, special fonts, whatever).
Is there anything I can do or change so I don't have to turn off the box and go into setup when I just want to see captions for a short period of time?
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post #19 of 19 Old 03-07-2007, 04:30 AM
 
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I had the same problem. My problem was related to the 480 override setting. I had it set to OFF and it needed to be 480P (I suppose other settings might work too, but OFF does not).

There is no way to change the CC settings without turning the box off.
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