Any DVHS VCR that does not require Firewire (IEEE)? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 02-04-2007, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Any DVHS VCR with digital ATSC tuners built in out there that doesnt need firewire or the contents of a bank vault to purchase?

Or is there a set top HD box with firewire output so that I can purchase a DVHS VCR and interface it without cable or satellite service intervention?

Do all DVHS VCRs require firewire?

Essentially I want to record OTA HD broadcast for future viewing. Hopefully I can do this all for under $300 (yeah right or maybe?)

Thanks,
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post #2 of 20 Old 02-04-2007, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestonD View Post

Any DVHS VCR with digital ATSC tuners built in out there that doesnt need firewire or the contents of a bank vault to purchase?

If that's all you want to do, why not just use a PC HDTV tuner?

HDTV Tuner for PC: under $100
300GB Hard Drive: under $100
IOData LP2 HD Media Player: under $250

If you are willing to use your PC for playback you can save the cost of the LinkPlayer.

There's also a new hard-disk based HD player from TVIX that has OTA recording capabilities. This would free you from needing to use your PC.
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post #3 of 20 Old 02-04-2007, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply. I thought about using my pc with usb hd tuner cards but my laptop that I can use only has vga and s-video output so not sure how to get HDTV out of that. Any suggestions there?

Also I checked the Tvixbox site and I couldnt find any products with OTA tuners built in, are they selling them or is it available?

But in looking further it looks like with the Tvixbox I can get a USB digital tuner for the laptop, record onto files (I beleive HDTV uses some sort of MPEG format?) and then record the file to the Tvixbox and play back onto hdtv? That would work for me! Is it feasible to do so?

Regards,
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post #4 of 20 Old 02-04-2007, 10:16 PM
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The Tvix device that can record and playback HDTV standalone is being discussed in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=797245

For your laptop - you can certainly use a USB HDTV Tuner to capture. If you laptop is incapable of playing back using HDTV timings out the VGA port (or your TV can't accept it), you'll need a streaming player like a LinkPlayer, or a unit from Tvix, or Mediagate, or any one of a number of other manufacturers like KISS, D-Link, etc. These type of devices are all being discussed in the subforum where the Tvix device is being discussed.

Some units support an internal hard drive (Tvix, Mediagate) so you don't need another device to archive your content. Record onto the laptop, copy via USB or network onto the device's hard drive, and playback w/o a computer. Other devices (Linkplayer) require a streaming server, but this can be satisfied by something as low-end as a cheap NAS (Buffalo Linkstation for example), or you could use your laptop with a big external USB drive.
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post #5 of 20 Old 02-04-2007, 11:17 PM
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The Mitsubishi HD6000 has a built in HD tuner, hard drive and HDMI out, but its double your budget at about 500-600.
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post #6 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestonD View Post

Any DVHS VCR with digital ATSC tuners built in out there that doesnt need firewire or the contents of a bank vault to purchase?

Where are you getting contents of a bank vault?!?!?

I'm using a Mitsu 2000 which can be had NEW for <$150 and a JVC 30K (for DTheater and MPEG decoder) which can be had used for under $200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestonD View Post

Essentially I want to record OTA HD broadcast for future viewing. Hopefully I can do this all for under $300 (yeah right or maybe?)

Why limit yourself to OTA? If you get a D-VHS (or two), then you can record movies off cable if you want to as well as other premium content. All for less than $350.

Dave
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post #7 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 06:53 AM
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I'm using a Mits 2000U with a Samsung SIR-T165 for exactly what you're trying to do - works great, playback is through the 165 via DVI/HDMI or component. Got both of them on e-bay for just a bit more than your $300 target.
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post #8 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by agb2529 View Post

I'm using a Mits 2000U with a Samsung SIR-T165 for exactly what you're trying to do - works great, playback is through the 165 via DVI/HDMI or component. Got both of them on e-bay for just a bit more than your $300 target.

Good suggestion. The 165 usually goes for <$200 and a brand new Mitsu 200U can be had for around $130. So, just barely more than the $300 target.

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post #9 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I am kinda of a noob on this stuff so bear with me. Contents of bank vault were inferences to Tivo HD DVR costs I should have been more specific. I am definitly checking out all the above, thanks for the input.

The reason I am wanting OTA is that cable and directv do not have all the OTA broadcast channels that are available in my area and I am between deciding whether to stay with directv or go to cable, essentially I am not impressed with their offerings so far in terms of HD. Since my wife and I pretty much watch the major networks offerings with a few exceptions of course all we really need is an OTA HD DVR or VCR or similar offereing to record a certain channel at a certain time.
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post #10 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestonD View Post

The reason I am wanting OTA is that cable and directv do not have all the OTA broadcast channels that are available in my area and I am between deciding whether to stay with directv or go to cable, essentially I am not impressed with their offerings so far in terms of HD. Since my wife and I pretty much watch the major networks offerings with a few exceptions of course all we really need is an OTA HD DVR or VCR or similar offereing to record a certain channel at a certain time.

Well, for what you are describing, I would tend toward a PVR. D-VHS machines cannot schedule timer recordings, so the only way to do it is a hack (a remote Radio Shack made for people that couldn't program their VCRs). It is far from a great solution. If you just want to record shows to watch, then delete, I would not get a D-VHS machine for that. I love my D-VHS machine because I have a large collection of HD movies I've taped, but for TV shows, we just use the PVR.

Dave
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post #11 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Good advice I really appreciate it. I have been looking at the various storage devices that utilize USB like the aforementioned Tvix and also the TVisto, but the question comes to mind is what actually is the format of HDTV files stored via HDTV tuner cards.

For example, if I do get a USB HD Tuner card what format do they store their files in? I thought it was just MPEG2 or MPEG4 but the more I did some research the more I got confused on this. Seems like if these devices can store any file format then it would be a simple matter of just using the USB HDTV dongle with the laptop and storing the files on these storgae devices and then just use their HDTV output to play back. Will this work? I notice that they are selling HDTV specific devices but do offer cheaper models that store MPEG2 and MPEG4 and am curious whether these will work.

ALso was confused with the Mitsu references, at first I thought you were referring to some mitsubishi projector but are you referring to TVIX Mini C-2000U?

Thanks!
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post #12 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestonD View Post

ALso was confused with the Mitibushi references, I already have an HDTV (Sony VVega 46") so I guess I would just buy the Mits model to use for its HDTV tuner capability?

In your original post you were asking for a recording device with a built in tuner. The Mits is a stand alone DVR with a built in HD tuner, no need for a computer or VCR.
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post #13 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I edited the previous post because I was confused with the Mitsu references but Eric made quick update...is that the brand name? Mits?
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post #14 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I think I found what you guys are referring to:
Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U
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post #15 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestonD View Post

I edited the previous post because I was confused with the Mitsu references but Eric made quick update...is that the brand name? Mits?

Mitsubishi HD-6000 is the DVR with the HD tuner built in. HDMI, component, firewire.

Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U is a D-VHS vcr, no HD tuner, firewire only for digital recording.
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post #16 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestonD View Post

For example, if I do get a USB HD Tuner card what format do they store their files in? I thought it was just MPEG2 or MPEG4 but the more I did some research the more I got confused on this. Seems like if these devices can store any file format then it would be a simple matter of just using the USB HDTV dongle with the laptop and storing the files on these storgae devices and then just use their HDTV output to play back.

OTA HDTV is MPEG-2. All of the cards either save as transport streams (.ts suffix typically) or have the ability to export as a program stream. A program like Video ReDo is well-worth the $50 to edit out commercials, trim the beginning and ends, and convert transport streams to program streams and vice-versa.

With your new knowledge of what's available, you should reassess your needs. The solutions being pitched all have different feature sets and some are more suited than others for what you need. For instance, if CableCard matters to you, then the USB tuner approach is probably a no-go.

Quote:


Will this work? I notice that they are selling HDTV specific devices but do offer cheaper models that store MPEG2 and MPEG4 and am curious whether these will work.

What you described will work, but it's probably a more expensive solution than others that have been mentioned, and it's OTA-only. If your goal is to permanantly archive a huge amount of OTA programming, it's a good choice. Put a 1TB drive in and you can archive about 180 episodes of a 1 hr show (with commercials removed).

Once nice thing about the Tvix and similar units w/hard drives is that you can take your HD recordings to another person's house in a package not much bigger than a thick paperback book.

Quote:


ALso was confused with the Mitsu references, at first I thought you were referring to some mitsubishi projector but are you referring to TVIX Mini C-2000U?

Other solutions mentioned in this thread include:

1) Standalone HD tuner (Samsung SIR-T165) with Firewire, along with D-VHS VCR (Mits HD-2000U), also with Firewire

2) Standalone HD PVR (Mits HD-6000)
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post #17 of 20 Old 02-05-2007, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99 View Post

D-VHS machines cannot schedule timer recordings, so the only way to do it is a hack (a remote Radio Shack made for people that couldn't program their VCRs).
Dave

D-VHS machines can't schedule HD recordings with their internal timers, but can easily be controlled by the timer in the firewire device that the ATSC signal comes from, either a standalone STB or a firewire equipped HDTV (all Mitsubishi's and some Samsungs & Toshibas, maybe some others although not most Sonys). I can set up multiple recordings over at least a week, limited only by the length of the tape.
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post #18 of 20 Old 02-06-2007, 05:38 AM
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No tapes to mess with, and not yet available her in the states, but the future is here. It cost $350 - shipping overseas could be a deal breaker.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/30...-but-the-disk/
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post #19 of 20 Old 02-06-2007, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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====Edited to place in new thread======

Yeah I saw that...pretty slick device. I thought I saw another site already selling the devices but thought it was a bit pricier.

Here is what I am thinking about so far to use for low cost DVR:

USB HDTV Tuner dongle ($69.95 + shipping):
http://www.hdtvonpc.com/proddetail.p...p_u6010a&cat=5

Anyware MediaGate ($79.95 + shipping)
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4694729

I plan on recording via the laptop with the USB tuner dongle and saving the files to the Mediagate and then playing back later on HDTV via component.

Question is I was told earlier in this thread that HDTV broadcasts in MPEG2 and this Mediagate is supposed to handle MPEG2 but is there different types of MPEG2? Would this device be able to handle the HD recording via the USB HDTV dongle tuner? Is there a specific file type that I should use for HDTV recording that is considered the defacto HDTV standard for this HDTV recorded media conveyance?

Thanks for your help (I dont know if this question should actually go to a new thread, I am sorry kinda new to this).

Preston
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post #20 of 20 Old 02-08-2007, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestonD View Post

Here is what I am thinking about so far to use for low cost DVR:

USB HDTV Tuner dongle ($69.95 + shipping):
http://www.hdtvonpc.com/proddetail.p...p_u6010a&cat=5

Anyware MediaGate ($79.95 + shipping)
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4694729

Interesting - that looks like it would give you what you're looking for. I'm not sure how good the tuner is compared to something like the FusionHDTV5-USB, and you'll want to double-check what kind of bitrate limitations the MediaGate might have.

I'm anxious to see if that's what you go with and how it works out.
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