Mitsubishi DLP TV and Intellasys/Indigita/Cinemavu IEEE1394 HD DVR Units - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 82 Old 06-08-2007, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there anyone successfully using these (record & playback) IEEE1394 firewire DVR's?

I'm having a problem that may seem trivial, but believe me, it's a major frustration.

WD-xx831 - Is anyone else having problems with firewire IEEE1394 record/playback?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mitsubishi WD-57831, WD-65831, WD-73831

Do any owners of the above sets have this problem?

What are you using for your firewire (IEEE1394) recorder?

I've been unable to resolve the problem dealing with Mitsubishi.

Intellasys (INDIGITA / CinemaVU) says "The dropped audio is a decoding issue with the Mits TV" and I haven't received any more than that from them.

Here's the problem...

The problem is that I'm experiencing audio dropout when playing back recordings made via firewire from the TV.

Here's all the detailed info regarding the problem.

5.1 audio problem

My problem is with Surround Sound (Dolby Digital 5.1) losing LFE (low frequency effect) component and sound drops out for a second or two intermittently when playing back 1080i (Discovery-HD, UHD, MHD, NBC, PBS, etc.) firewire recordings, 720p (FOX, ESPNHD) are fine. BELIEVE ME, IT"S A MAJOR ANNOYANCE.

Watching the program while it's being recorded doesn't exhibit the problem.

Source for recording is the WD-57831 thru NetCommand out firewire, and the inputs are;
1) Comcast digital cable into ANT1 w/Motorola v04.21 cablecard
2) Comcast digital cable directly into ANT2
3) OTA antenna into ANT2

Happens whether I'm using my Windows XP PC w/Firebus driver, an RCA DVR2080 or a CinemaVU C-VU500 HD-DVR (INDIGITA AVHD-500) to record/playback via firewire.

Have tried 6 new S400 6p-4p firewire cables from 3 to 15 feet long.

Dolby 5.1 (AC3) signal is being output from the TV digital audio out to a Sony HT-DDW830A/V receiver, coax digital audio in and sent to it's 6 surround sound speakers.

The A/V receiver works fine with multi-channel, DD & DTS sound output from my DVD player and also from the TV while recording content with DD 5.1.

Have tried 2 different cables for digital audio from the TV to the A/V receiver. They both work fine while viewing the program being recorded and also work fine from my DVD player to the A/V receiver. i.e. the cables are good.

If I tell my A/V receiver to output (downmix to) stereo instead of Dolby 5.1, I don't have the problem.
If I use the TV's built in stereo speakers, I don't have the problem.
If the recorded program is not in Dolby 5.1, I don't have the problem.

I've tried disabling TVGOS while recording and playing back and also disconnecting every input except firewire while playing back and it doesn't help.

Installed new firmware (V33+ 008.02) shipped from Mitsubishi 03/22/2007 and that didn't help.

Split the cable in to ANT1 & ANT2. Memorized ANT2 channels and using ANT2 recorded NBC-HD 1080i w/Dolby 5.1 for 25 minutes. No dropouts during recording. Playback has audio dropouts. It's not the cablecard since that's only active on ANT1 input.

I put cable back to ANT1 w/cablecard and attached my indoor OTA antenna to ANT2. Recorded HEROES NBC 1080i w/Dolby 5.1 30 minutes from OTA, then 30 minutes from cablecard. When playing back the OTA recording, sound does NOT dropout. Cablecard recording sound played back DOES dropout. Tried again with TONIGHT SHOW, same thing. OTA played back does NOT dropout, cablecard played back DOES dropout.

The sound dropouts do not occur in the same place in the recording as evidenced by rewinding and playing back where it drops the first time.
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post #2 of 82 Old 06-08-2007, 11:17 PM
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This is definitely a problem with a TV , and not the AVHDD recorder. They're just dumb bit-buckets and do NOT process the digital stream recording in any way whatsoever besides encrypting it + writing to disk.

Keep bothering Mitsubishi about it.
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post #3 of 82 Old 06-09-2007, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop View Post

This is definitely a problem with a TV , and not the AVHDD recorder. They're just dumb bit-buckets and do NOT process the digital stream recording in any way whatsoever besides encrypting it + writing to disk.

Keep bothering Mitsubishi about it.

I agree on principal that it should be a bit for bit copy of the stream, but if you look at the unit specs it states it handles PID filtering and time-stamping, so it does actually manipulate the stream.

PID filtering for demultiplexing transport streams
Time-stamping of recorded content Allows for demultiplexing of multi-program cable and satellite transport streams.

I would love to hear from someone else using this recorder, or an RCA DVR2080 (not an older OEM version) that can verify they don't have the issue I'm seeing.
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post #4 of 82 Old 06-09-2007, 05:55 PM
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I have both DVR2080 and 2160, but I'm not using it with that particular TV.
I don't have any kind of audio or video dropouts though.
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post #5 of 82 Old 06-09-2007, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop View Post

I have both DVR2080 and 2160, but I'm not using it with that particular TV.
I don't have any kind of audio or video dropouts though.

Are you attached to an HDTV (if so, which?) or an STB?

Also, I ONLY have the problem with 1080i w/DD 5.1 recorded from cable, not OTA and only see it when playing back.

I also assume you're in Japan which uses different broadcast standards over cable than the U.S does, ISDB-C vs. DVB-C or OpenCable, correct me if Wikipedia is wrong.

Comcast cable in my area uses Motorola DC-II, so I have to assume their head-end equipment is Motorola.

I just want to get this problem resolved, as the whole reason for purchasing this setup was to record & playback HDTV.
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post #6 of 82 Old 06-10-2007, 06:47 AM
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TV.
I've used the box to record satellite HD and terrestrial HD broadcasts.
You're correct regarding different broadcast system. The audio is also AAC, not AC3. However 5.1ch does playback without a problem. TV is a 2005? I think model Sharp LC5 37" lcd.

Anyway, better if some Mitsubishi WD-57831, WD-65831, WD-73831 owners poke at this thread, it's unlikely my random babbling is going to improve your situation. Maybe if you changed thread topic to mention mitsubishi TV's youd get more people looking at it.
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post #7 of 82 Old 06-10-2007, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

Are you attached to an HDTV (if so, which?) or an STB?

Also, I ONLY have the problem with 1080i w/DD 5.1 recorded from cable, not OTA and only see it when playing back.

I also assume you're in Japan which uses different broadcast standards over cable than the U.S does, ISDB-C vs. DVB-C or OpenCable, correct me if Wikipedia is wrong.

Comcast cable in my area uses Motorola DC-II, so I have to assume their head-end equipment is Motorola.

I just want to get this problem resolved, as the whole reason for purchasing this setup was to record & playback HDTV.


It is the TV. It makes no difference what standard is used as Transport Stream is very similar on all standards. BTW in US cable tv only uses ATSC OpenCable standard, no DVB-C here. Also DCII on cable is used for encryption and nothing else. I have Mistubishi LCD with firewire and RCA and Toshiba AVHDD. I do not get audio dropouts but I get occasional video glitch. Mitsubishi makes great TV's but they always seem to have problem with QAM recording. Earlier Mitsu TVs would not demux channels from QAM and output the whole stream and people could not record it at all.
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post #8 of 82 Old 06-10-2007, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKNA View Post

It is the TV. It makes no difference what standard is used as Transport Stream is very similar on all standards. BTW in US cable tv only uses ATSC OpenCable standard, no DVB-C here. Also DCII on cable is used for encryption and nothing else. I have Mistubishi LCD with firewire and RCA and Toshiba AVHDD. I do not get audio dropouts but I get occasional video glitch. Mitsubishi makes great TV's but they always seem to have problem with QAM recording. Earlier Mitsu TVs would not demux channels from QAM and output the whole stream and people could not record it at all.

CKNA, thanks for the reply. I will continue to followup with Mitsubishi on the issue.
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post #9 of 82 Old 06-24-2007, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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My set's been in the shop for a week, so the local shop can troubleshoot with Mits help, and they say they'll start looking at it in 2 days... Why did they need it last Saturday?
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post #10 of 82 Old 07-02-2007, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

My set's been in the shop for a week, so the local shop can troubleshoot with Mits help, and they say they'll start looking at it in 2 days... Why did they need it last Saturday?

Still in shop and no news yet, Hmmmm....
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post #11 of 82 Old 07-05-2007, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Heard from shop, then Mits today... local shop got DM module in on Monday and might get a chance to put it in today and see if it fixes it...
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post #12 of 82 Old 07-26-2007, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

Heard from shop, then Mits today... local shop got DM module in on Monday and might get a chance to put it in today and see if it fixes it...

Was in the shop for over a month while they tried 2 new DM modules which made the problem worse, so it's still not fixed. Waaiiting to hear back from Mits 2nd level...
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post #13 of 82 Old 08-02-2007, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

Was in the shop for over a month while they tried 2 new DM modules which made the problem worse, so it's still not fixed. Waaiiting to hear back from Mits 2nd level...

Called Mits 2nd level support today and my contact was not there. I think they know about this problem and are stalling until my one year warranty runs out or until they've sold all of these sets. Their support is pitiful. They don't return calls and when you email Consumer relations you get an automated reply stating someone will contact you within 2 business days. It's never happened.

Anyone have a recommendation on a new 1080p set that actually records/plays over firewire without problems?
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post #14 of 82 Old 08-28-2007, 05:46 AM
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Surely not the Samsung DLP's!

You can only record the first sub channel.
The set is in a full 'on' state including the lamp.

bwall23; you have a PM.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #15 of 82 Old 08-30-2007, 01:09 PM
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as far as I know, the only new sets that will have firewire are the new Mitsubishi Diamond DLPs... good luck getting Mitsubishi to fix anything. If it is broken, they won't fix it... period.

I'd get an HD-DVR with firewire and call it a day. I gave up a while ago on getting my Mitsubishi TV to properly do anything over firewire.
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post #16 of 82 Old 09-01-2007, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by UMD_Terp View Post

I'd get an HD-DVR with firewire and call it a day. I gave up a while ago on getting my Mitsubishi TV to properly do anything over firewire.

The problem I have is when using any 3 of my HD-DVR's with firewire.
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post #17 of 82 Old 09-01-2007, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

The problem I have is when using any 3 of my HD-DVR's with firewire.

So you cannot dump from the DVR straight to the AV disk? That should work. Makre sure you take the TV out of the chain though. It may not work at all if you still have the TV somewhere in the 1394 chain. Connect the AV disk directly to the DVR and then try.
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post #18 of 82 Old 09-02-2007, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMD_Terp View Post

So you cannot dump from the DVR straight to the AV disk? That should work. Makre sure you take the TV out of the chain though. It may not work at all if you still have the TV somewhere in the 1394 chain. Connect the AV disk directly to the DVR and then try.

I can't take the TV out of the firewire chain since it's the only controller/hub. I only have the following in the firewire chain;

FirewireHDDVR(AVDISC)<---TV--->FirewireHDDVR(AVDISC1)

You must not have read my first post here because it sounds like you're thinking I have a cable STB. I don't.

What firewire devices do you have and how can you dump direct from an STB to an AVDISC with nothing to control them???
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post #19 of 82 Old 09-02-2007, 08:50 PM
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sorry, I didn't see that the TV tuner was your only source.
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post #20 of 82 Old 10-14-2007, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Quote:


Was in the shop for over a month while they tried 2 new DM modules which made the problem worse, so it's still not fixed. Waaiiting to hear back from Mits 2nd level...

Called Mits 2nd level support today and my contact was not there. I think they know about this problem and are stalling until my one year warranty runs out or until they've sold all of these sets. Their support is pitiful. They don't return calls and when you email Consumer relations you get an automated reply stating someone will contact you within 2 business days. It's never happened.

Anyone have a recommendation on a new 1080p set that actually records/plays over firewire without problems?

Mits 2nd level called me August 20th stating my firewire HD-DVR's (same Indigita brand Mits uses for demos) must be incompatible with the TV. I asked which ones are compatible. They said their "expert" is on vacation and would get back to me on that.

It's been 2 months and I haven't heard from them.

I returned my newest (Indigita AVHD-500) unit to Indigita to get a broken LED fixed and they loaded the latest (9/28/07) firmware on it. I still have the same audio dropout issue.

Is it the Mitsubishi WD-57831, the Indigita AVHD-500 or Comcast cable???
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post #21 of 82 Old 10-15-2007, 05:58 AM
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I sold my Samsung 5088 and picked up a 57732. I briefly tried one, then both of my AVHDDs' (RCA 2150) and the set reconized both and both appeared to record a test progran. I just watched a minute of each just to confirm they worked. Didn't listen to them as I forgot about your issue. I do have a program setup for tonight and will evaluate that.

Off subject, I hate to admit it but the Mits doesn't hold a candle to the Sammy PQ wise. What Home Theater magazine said about the Mits I will have to agree with (at least PQ wise). It faired the 2nd lowest just ahead of a Olevia 565H. Too bad they don't test the user interface or the most basic feature of any TV, the tuner.
http://hometheatermag.printthis.clic...partnerID=3830

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #22 of 82 Old 10-15-2007, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I sold my Samsung 5088 and picked up a 57732. I briefly tried one, then both of my AVHDDs' (RCA 2150) and the set reconized both and both appeared to record a test progran. I just watched a minute of each just to confirm they worked. Didn't listen to them as I forgot about your issue. I do have a program setup for tonight and will evaluate that.

Off subject, I hate to admit it but the Mits doesn't hold a candle to the Sammy PQ wise. What Home Theater magazine said about the Mits I will have to agree with (at least PQ wise). It faired the 2nd lowest just ahead of a Olevia 565H. Too bad they don't test the user interface or the most basic feature of any TV, the tuner.
http://hometheatermag.printthis.clic...partnerID=3830

Look forward to hearing the results of your test recording.

Why did you dump the Sammy?
They reviewed a Mits 731. I had one and sent it back. I think the 732's and 831's are definitely much better than the 731. I did notice poor black levels on the 731, my 831 doesn't have that problem.
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post #23 of 82 Old 10-16-2007, 10:26 AM
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Quote:


Why did you dump the Sammy?

Mostly useless function of the 1394/TVGOS feature.
Between the set turning the lamp on while doing a AVHDD record (when no one is watching or at home),
not being able to record any sub channel above '.1' (can record 1.1, but can't record 1.2 for example),
thevideo menu buried seven button pushes deep,
the service menu erasing all the user settings and
a flimsy plastic case that 'creaks' when it get warm.
Quote:


I did notice poor black levels on the 731, my 831 doesn't have that problem.

The 731 didn't have the iris. The 732 & the 832 does along with a half a dozen other features most sets don't have.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #24 of 82 Old 10-19-2007, 09:58 AM
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I recorded a few programs off cable and OTA and after watching just parts of all of them, I had no audio breakup.
Actually, considering everything, the procress went fairly well. Other than the fact it is all too easy to delete a program you already watched, since there isn't a 'are you sure' confirmation screen.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #25 of 82 Old 10-19-2007, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I recorded a few programs off cable and OTA and after watching just parts of all of them, I had no audio breakup.
Actually, considering everything, the procress went fairly well. Other than the fact it is all too easy to delete a program you already watched, since there isn't a 'are you sure' confirmation screen.

You also have Comcast cable? I only get the audio dropouts with the Mits Digital Coax out attached to my A/V surround system when playing back a 1080i recording in DD 5.1 that was recorded from Comcast cable. All OTA recordings, all cable 720p recordings and all cable recordings with DD 2 don't have a problem.
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post #26 of 82 Old 10-20-2007, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

I returned my newest (Indigita AVHD-500) unit to Indigita to get a broken LED fixed and they loaded the latest (9/28/07) firmware on it.

You have a 500gig indigita disk image?
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post #27 of 82 Old 10-20-2007, 05:18 AM
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This is on TW. That seems to be a somewhat limited situation.
How about that same audio off the TV directly (internal speakers)?

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #28 of 82 Old 10-20-2007, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop View Post

You have a 500gig indigita disk image?

Oh yah. It's on my USB thumb drive
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post #29 of 82 Old 10-20-2007, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

This is on TW. That seems to be a somewhat limited situation.
How about that same audio off the TV directly (internal speakers)?

My original post at the beginning of this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post10744858

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwall23 View Post

5.1 audio problem

My problem is with Surround Sound (Dolby Digital 5.1) losing LFE (low frequency effect) component and sound drops out for a second or two intermittently when playing back 1080i (Discovery-HD, UHD, MHD, NBC, PBS, etc.) firewire recordings
...
If I tell my A/V receiver to output (downmix to) stereo instead of Dolby 5.1, I don't have the problem.
If I use the TV's built in stereo speakers, I don't have the problem.
If the recorded program is not in Dolby 5.1, I don't have the problem.

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post #30 of 82 Old 10-21-2007, 06:57 AM
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Too much info to remember it all.
Ok, how about trying another receiver?

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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