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Old 10-16-2001, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone know if the Mits HD decoder / DTV box provids an output to enable recording on the Mits DVHS VCR?

Thanks
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Old 10-16-2001, 09:21 PM
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No, it does not.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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Old 10-16-2001, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for info. I don't suppose there is a solution, other than to buy a new tv with IEEE 1394 port?

Thanks again
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Old 10-16-2001, 10:41 PM
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Ok, we go again. Here are some answers that apply to the new Mitsubishi DVHS deck.

Q. Can it be used as your VCR for non-HDTV as well as HDTV recordings?
A. Yes, it could be used as a standard VHS or SVHS VCR, but this would not be recommended. It would be better to buy a less expensive standard unit and reserve the DVHS for HDTV recording & playback.

Q. Can it record all HDTV sources - satellite (both DirecTV and Dish) and OTA?
A. No. For HDTV, it can only record from a DTV IEEE1394 (also known as Firewire) source. At this time, there are no current satellite HDTV sources with this interface, and no OTA DTV tuners with this interface, either.

Possible sources available in the near future include:
- The new Sony STB used by Cablevision (you would have to live in a Cablevision service area to take advantage of this).

- The new Mitsubishi HDTV's and the older Mitsubishi HDTV's that can accept the Promise module.

- Possibly the new 1394 equipped Sony HDTV's. Note: Not all new Sony HDTV's have 1394.

- Dish Network has also stated they will support DVHS with 1394 equipment. This may mean a new 1394 module for the existing Dish 6000 HDTV unit or a brand new HDTV STB. In either case, it will probably be sometime Q2 next year (or later) before we see the Dish equipment.

All of these have or will have 1394 interfaces.

The discontinued Panasonic TU-DST50/51 DTV tuners are also possible sources, but this needs to be confirmed. The problem is that Panasonic used a proprietary communication protocol for their early 1394 products. The same can be said for the discontinued Panasonic PV-HD1000 DVHS VCR.

Q. What satellite receivers can it be used with?
A. Right now, none.

Q. Will it play HDTV back on any HDTV-capable set or projector?
A. The Mitsu DVHS has one type of HDTV output, on the 1394 interface. The HDTV's mentioned above should work for playback.

Q. Anyone talking about releasing HDTV tapes anytime soon?
A. Yes. HDNet, the new DirecTV channel recently said they will be offering for sale HDTV movies and other programming in the DVHS format.

Whew, again.

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Old 10-17-2001, 08:27 AM
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Hey Ken-

Add the complete "Panny" system configuration description and you'll be ready to simply post your list as a pretty complete FAQ!
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Old 10-17-2001, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the complete answer. Sorry for asking an apparent common question (I looked through faq, sorry if missed it).

I started looking into 'why not buy a sat/ota HD' box now, I think this is the answer. My WS55807 will have to wait, for now.

Thanks again,
Barry Marks
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Old 10-17-2001, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H
The discontinued Panasonic TU-DST50/51 DTV tuners are also possible sources, but this needs to be confirmed. The problem is that Panasonic used a proprietary communication protocol for their early 1394 products. The same can be said for the discontinued Panasonic PV-HD1000 DVHS VCR.
From conversations herein with gridleak, it seems as though the PV-HD1000 may have spoken a proprietary lingo to the TU-DST50/51s, but is perfectly capable of speaking proper DTCP and EIA-775-A AV/C--it can send things to the Japanese JVC HM-DH30000 for recording. He says (in his first post on this page, that he and several forum participants have failed to get the JVC recorder to work with the TU-DST50/51s. At least one person in those discussion from earlier this year--around March--claims to have made it work: W Choi in his first post of this page.

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Old 10-17-2001, 08:49 PM
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To clarify this matter somewhat:

Some of the early adopters of the DH30000 were unable to achieve any communication in either direction with the TU-DST50/51. That led to W Choi's reassurance that they "work very well" together. I'm quit certain he only meant the JVC could record the output of the Panny STB's.

As more members reported results it became apparent that the JVC could record output from most DST51's, but some DST50's needed a ROM upgrade to achieve this one-way communication. It also became apparent that communication in the other direction, i.e. playback through the Panny, is rarely possible. To my knowledge it's happened only once, as described here. Todd told me later that his DST50 lost this capability after he accessed the service menu.

-Roger
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Old 10-17-2001, 08:57 PM
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gridleak,

Thanks much for the clarification.

So it seems the JVC is more valuable than the Mitsu, because it can record from the TU-DST (and Dish 5000), and playback on its own.

Since the Mitsu has no analog HDTV output, it must use another 1394 device (like a Mitsu HDTV) to playback.

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Old 10-18-2001, 08:21 AM
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Roger

So are you saying one can use the japan JVC and record from the panasonic stuff without having to put any special header information on the tape and get HD?

Any thoughts about the Japan unit vs the US one when it ships?
I know the imported unit is around $1300. Wonder what the US version will sell for. At the crazy prices for the Ebay panasonic DVHS decks, I would much rather have the JVC unit.

Dave
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Old 10-18-2001, 05:47 PM
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Dave,

Yes, the DH30000 always records hidef (when set in HS mode). The only issue has been its display capability, which seems to go into the "image constrained" mode rather easily.

Everyone,

I suppose this is a good time and place to point out the rather ominous implications of tmitchmd's experience (Todd, please correct and/or comment). To summarize: Todd had an early version TU-DST50, and was one of the very first to obtain the DH30000. The 50 had blue sparkle problems and would not work with the DH30000, so he sent it to Panasonic for repair. As is always the case, Panasonic updated the roms to the latest version for the 50. When Todd got it back, he found that it worked perfectly with the JVC in both directions. At some later date he discovered that it no longer worked in the display direction.

I'm going to suggest that this was DTLA in action. During normal use Todd watched and/or recorded a movie from a DTCP source (satellite?) that sent an SRM (System Renewability Message) with a new CRL (Certificate Revocation List) containing revocation of this latest rom version of the TU-DST50. At that point the JVC could no longer use the 50 as a display device.

I'm making the assumption here that the Panny STB's didn't have "image constraint" capability, and therefore will always be revoked.

:eek: Mike, can this stuff be happening now?

-Roger
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Old 10-18-2001, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Forgive me for interjecting my ignorance, i'm new to the concept of trying to record HD is a standardized manner. My understanding is the new replaytv boxes will allow transfer to PC in mpeg2 format, but won't allow it to transfer back. If a PC was configured as a playback device (and hd capable hw for pc is available), this would meet my need.

I wouldn't have jumped into this without understanding the thread, buy hey, this apparently old topic reinitiated on my naive thread, so what the heck, hope not to offend anyone.

Thanks
Rufus
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Old 10-19-2001, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rufus2011
Forgive me for interjecting my ignorance, i'm new to the concept of trying to record HD is a standardized manner. My understanding is the new replaytv boxes will allow transfer to PC in mpeg2 format, but won't allow it to transfer back. If a PC was configured as a playback device (and hd capable hw for pc is available), this would meet my need.

I wouldn't have jumped into this without understanding the thread, buy hey, this apparently old topic reinitiated on my naive thread, so what the heck, hope not to offend anyone.

Thanks
Rufus
With a big fat hard drive or two (and they're getting pretty damn cheap--buy.com has Maxtor's 120GB ATA-100 for $339--enough for a little over 17 hours of 1080i) and Telemann's popular Hipix HDTV tuner card, you can make your own HD "ReplayTV", to record and play back OTA HDTV or DBS through the Dish 5000/Modulator combo. [I wonder if the Dish 5000/Modulator isn't booby-trapped in some way, since recording from it with a PC capture card is exactly the sort of thing the MPAA fears most--it would be strange if they plugged up the DIRECTV STBs and missed that hole.]

In any case, such a setup will work for OTA recording for the foreseeable future--all such is quite clearly covered by the 1984 Sony v Universal Supreme Court decision, and as such it will probably never be legal to apply any form of copy-protection to it (well, not unless that decision gets overturned, which seems unlikely).

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