Recording on JVCHM-DH3000 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-18-2001, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got mine today. I want to record off of my digital cable. This box does not have an s-video out, only composite video or coxial. Which way will give me the best image?
If I should record through the composite, would it there be any benefit in getting a composite to s-video converter?
Also, it seems the only way to record anything broadcast in DD 5.1 would be through the coxial cable? This would then also apply to DSS correct?
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Old 10-18-2001, 07:38 PM
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Can't help you on your question, but I have one. Did you obtain ythe VCR through a local retail channel or through other means?
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Old 10-18-2001, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by speters
I want to record off of my digital cable. This box does not have an s-video out, only composite video or coxial. Which way will give me the best image?
Use the composite video from the digital cable box into the 30000.



Quote:
If I should record through the composite, would it there be any benefit in getting a composite to s-video converter?
No, unless you get a very expensive S-Video convertor.



Quote:
Also, it seems the only way to record anything broadcast in DD 5.1 would be through the coxial cable? This would then also apply to DSS correct?
To record digital audio with analog video, you would have to have a digital (coax or optical) output from the digital cable box, and the 30000 would have to have the same type of digital audio input. I think your out in both cases, so you will have to use the analog l/r audio from the digital cable box into the 30000.

I think the only way to record digital audio on the 30000, is when it's part of a ATSC bitstream, on the 1394 input.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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Old 10-19-2001, 10:39 AM
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Another question. Is the JVC HM-DH30000, through the i.Link interface, getting its' recording signal from the STB or TV's internal ATSC tuner? If so that would seem to indicate that one could not record one HD channel while viewing another HD channel at the same time.

If so are there any major differences between the JVC verses the Mitsubishi HD2000U, a D-VHS unit which may cost a third or more less?
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Old 10-19-2001, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Garrett Adams
Another question. Is the JVC HM-DH30000, through the i.Link interface, getting its' recording signal from the STB or TV's internal ATSC tuner? If so that would seem to indicate that one could not record one HD channel while viewing another HD channel at the same time.
Given an STB with 1394/DTCP connections (none such exist yet, except, possibly, the defunct Panasonic TU-DST50/51s), the JVC deck could record from it while you watched the internal ATSC tuner in the TV.

Given the Sony/Mitsubishi model of a 1394/DTCP interconnected home A/V network, where the only MPEG-2 decoder resides in the television, you really ought to be able to record one channel over the Firewire out of an STB, while watching another channel through the same STB. The STB, freed from the necessity of decoding the MPEG, would have a pretty easy job picking apart a multiplexed MPEG stream, repackaging parts of it for delivery to multiple destinations in the network. Even the ATSC tuner in the set should be able to tune a second channel and deliver its contents to some other device in the network while you watched another channel in realtime. Whether these things have been implemented this way in the very few pieces of equipment that've hit the market so far is unknown.

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Old 10-19-2001, 11:55 AM
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Thanks Mike. My non-i.Link Samsung STB has been retired since getting the Sony KD-34XBR2 which has the i.Link connection. What I was hoping to do was able to use the Sony alone by itself to achieve the view one, record another one scenario. Otherwise I'd have to bring the Samsung out of retirement.
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Old 10-20-2001, 02:17 PM
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Garrett,




You better bring the Samsung
Back into the Room,
The i.link on the Sony.
Is for input Only,
And that's no Baloney
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Old 10-20-2001, 03:44 PM
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Gary, I'm not sure I understand. If the JVC is not obtaining it's HD signal from the Sony's ATSC tuner via the i.Link then how does it obtain its' ATSC signal? My previous unanswered questions regarding whether or not the DH3000 had an internal ATSC tuner have left me to believe I would have to rely on my Sony KD-34XBR2's ATSC tuner for D-VHS recording.

From what little I've read I thought this latest implementation of the i.Link interface allowed for upstream and downstream throughput.
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Old 10-20-2001, 03:53 PM
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Gary, I'm not sure I understand. If the JVC is not obtaining it's HD signal from the Sony's ATSC tuner via the i.Link then how does it obtain its' ATSC signal?

It doesn't!

My previous unanswered questions regarding whether or not the DH3000 had an internal ATSC tuner

It doesn't!

From what little I've read I thought this latest implementation of the i.Link interface allowed for upstream and downstream throughput.

Not necessarily. In the case of the XBR2 sets, the i.link connection only acts as an input.

Gary Merson
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Old 10-20-2001, 05:14 PM
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Has anyone tried to connect one of these to a PC to see what the pc will do? I don't fully expect the pc to be able to control it, but I'm curious as to what reaction it will get.

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Old 10-20-2001, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Merson
Not necessarily. In the case of the XBR2 sets, the i.link connection only acts as an input.
Gary, I know you've been experimenting with these, so I guess you'd know by now from experience. Well, that sucks big-time. Obviously, no device has to deliver any service it doesn't want to, but there's no good reason Sony's set shouldn't deliver tuned ATSC content to a recorder hooked to its 1394/DTCP network. Of course, Sony hasn't announced any HD recorders of their own, so they don't have any real motive to offer that functionality, but it seems short-sighted and it takes those sets out of contention for my bucks. Hopefully that won't be true of Mitsubishi's new 2002 Integrated models, especially since their HD D-VHS deck has no source of HD video input or output other than the protected Firewire.

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Old 10-22-2001, 03:48 PM
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I was planning to buy one of the new Sony HDTVs with an internal ATSC tuner and firewire, specifically with the expectation that I could connect it to one of the new HDTV recorders or a future HD Tivo through the firewire. HDTV isn't very useful to me without the ability to timeshift shows. Is there consensus then that the new Sony's with firewire will not allow recording in HD? If so, how long will it be before Sony or other manufacturers incorporate this capability?

ericlhyman
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Old 10-22-2001, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ericlhyman
Is there consensus then that the new Sony's with firewire will not allow recording in HD?
Quoting from this Sony site.
Quote:
i.LINK® Digital Input Ports.
To support the latest digital video program sources, these televisions are Sony's first to incorporate the i.LINK digital interface. This means digital-to-digital connection to the next generation of compatible cable television set-top boxes. Thanks to i.LINK technology, each of the two ports handles both audio and video.
They specifically call it "input" for up-coming hd cable boxes

-Roger
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Old 10-23-2001, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there any benefit in recording shows from my digital cable ( through composite output) digtially on a digtial tape? I have been recording in S-vhs on my digital tapes because the NR does not work when you record digitally. So is there any benefit of me recording onto digital tapes, or should I just use s-vhs tapes?
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Old 10-23-2001, 09:28 PM
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Most of us use s-vhs tape to record our HD. Much cheaper

dave
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Old 10-24-2001, 12:33 PM
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speters,

Are you asking about recording format (DVHS vs. SVHS), or about type of tape? If the US version of the DH30000 is the same as the Japanese version, you can record DVHS format on SVHS tapes and visa versa (SVHS format on DVHS tapes).

Using SVHS tape and recording in DVHS format at STD speed gives you 4 hours on a ST120 tape with sufficient quality for a composite NTSC signal. The disadvantages are no noise reduction, and tapes won't play on other SHVS machines.

Using SVHS tape and recording in SVHS format at STD speed gives only 2 hours per tape, but you get NR and compatibility with standard machines.

-Roger
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Old 10-25-2001, 08:48 PM
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Here's a little something about the JVC D-VHS not sure what it all means but maybe somebody can make heads and tales of it:

D-VHS FAQ’s

1) With recordable DVD (and surely recordable HD DVD) right around the corner, why would the consumer want a new tape –based system?
Recordable DVD can not record HD digital signal. D-VHS is the only media that can record and playback HD sources right now. D-VHS tape has 50GB of capacity which is approx. 10 times larger capacity than current DVD capacity. Considering SD recording, D-VHS STD mode has 14.1Mbps data transfer rate, on the contrary, DVD has up to 10Mbps. That results D-VHS’ better picture quality than DVD’s. If HD DVD came up, price will be far high and recording time will be shorter than D-VHS VCRs. The price of recording media (disk) will be much higher that D-VHS tape.

2) What formats will play in this machine?
D-VHS HS, STD, LS3 mode / S-VHS/ S-VHSET/ VHS

3) What is the difference between DTCP and HDCP?
DTCP is a copy protection system for compressed MPEG2 video data. This is a secure system for iLINK (IEEE1394) connection. On the contrary, HDCP is copy protection system for baseband digital HD signal. It is announced that HDCP will be incorporated in Digital set top box and HDTV.

4) Will this deck include DVI/ HDCP outputs?
No.

5) If I purchase two of these machines can I copy tapes?
If contents has copy-free CGMS bit, you can copy tapes.

6) What tapes do I need to record a HD program?
A D-VHS tape is needed.

7) Are these tapes readily available and at what cost??
(Please ask tape sales staff @JCA)

8) What video formats will this deck support?
NTSC, 18 ATSC formats.

9) Are there any other manufacturers supporting this format?
Sony,Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Hitachi, Philips,

10) What audio systems does this deck support?
5.1ch Dolby Digital optical output
MPEG1 Audio
VHS Hi-FI
VHS normal audio

11) How will this deck work with dbs and systems such as Direct TV and Dish Network?
If Digital STB have iLink (IEEE1394) digital output terminal, digital broadcasting signal can be recorded “as is†by DH30000 via iLink connection.

12) Will this work with my current TV?
DH30000 has playback format converter that can convert HD signal to 480i NTSC signal.

13) Will there be any benefits for me if I presently do not receive a HD signal?

1. With built-in MPEG2 encoder, you can record from analog signal with MPEG2 digital conversion.
2. You can dub from DV camcorder with DV-MPEG2 convert.
3. Using LS3 mode, you can record up to 24hrs with single cassette.
4. If you record analog sources by HS mode, it will be the best quality recording ever.

14) Will all previous HD ready televisions work with this deck? Are adapters needed?
DH30000 has component video output (Y, Pb, Pr)

15) What type of tuner will be needed?
If you want to record digital broadcast, you need digital STB with IEEE1394 compliant digital output.

16) How does this deck compare to the other D-VHS formats on the market or soon to be released?
Only DH30000 has HDTV HD MPEG2 decoder. Connection to HDTV is simple and easy as VHS VCRs.
DH30000 has CODEC function.
DH30000 has LS3 mode.
DH30000 has DV input terminal.

17) What is the difference between D-VHS recorder and DVD recorders

HDTV digital recording is possible by D-VHS VCR.
Media Capacity: D-VHS 50GB/cassette
DVD 4.7GB/Disc
Media Cost : D-VHS tape is much cheaper than DVD-R disc.
Recording bit rate: 28Mbps (D-VHS HS mode), 14Mbps (D-VHS STD mode), around 4Mbps(DVD)

18) When is there going to be prerecorded software available?

Nothing is fixed regarding prerecorded software. We hope in near future HD prerecorded software available.

19) Can I hook this deck up to a computer?
No.

20) What is the final jack pack configuration?
Y, Pb, Pr Component/ S-Video/ Composite Video

21) Will this deck support MPEG1 video?
No, it doesn’t.

22) Will this deck have IEEE1394 for digital dubbing, editing from MiniDV?
Yes, DH30000 has DV input terminal. DV signal is uncompressed and converted to MPEG2 signal for D-VHS recording.

23) Is this deck backwards compatible with the other VHS formats?
S-VHS, S-VHS ET, VHS compatible.

24) Can this deck also be used as an editing deck with flying erase head?
No. DH30000 does not have FE head.

25) How loud is the fan?
No problem with daily use.

26) Can this VCR be used non-linear editing solutions via firewire? Are there any limitations?

This model doesn’t have NLE capability via firewire. There’s no way to import data to PCs.


27) If I own a progressive Mini DV camcorder, can I get directly via firewire, and if yes, what are my benefits?

No matter which DV camcorder you have progressive or interlace, video output format is NTSC (480i). (Please do not mix up progressive video and progressive scan CCD.)
DH30000 has DV input terminal for MPEG2 conversion recording of DV footage. You can archive your footages to large capacity D-VHS tape w/o picture quality degradation.


28) Will I be able to record a HD program from Echostar, Direct TV and HD Cable boxes (AOL-Time Warner, Comcast and Cablevision)
If STB have digital DTCP output, you can record HD programs as far as program recording is permitted by copy protection system(CGMS).

29) Our GC-QX5HD camera has HD output. There are other manufacturers planning this feature also, can I record these images from the digital still camera to tape keeping these images in 1080i?

No. DH30000 can record HD pictures from iLINK terminal only.

30) Do we have any other CE manufacturers interested in this new format? If yes, are we actively discussing others to produce units utilizing this D-VHS format?

Yes, to expand D-VHS format, we should actively discussing many CE manufacturers.
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Old 10-25-2001, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CharlesA
Here's a little something about the JVC D-VHS not sure what it all means but maybe somebody can make heads and tales of it:
Where'd you get that? Judging for the Japanglish (not too bad), I'm guessing somewhere on JVC's site? :)

It's actually not a bad FAQ, though it could be better worded.

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Old 10-26-2001, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I am recording my analog signals on D-vhs tape, but I am recording in SVHS mode. I am recording in SVHS, SD mode, because I want to take advantage of the NR. Is there any benefit of me recording on a digital tape? I pay only $7.50 for the tapes, I think high quality svhs tapes, such as the FUJI H471S, is the same price.
Do you get less time when you record in svhs mode on a digital tape, than if you recorded in STD digital mode?
How does the EP mode look compared to the SP when recording in svhs onto a digital tape?
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Old 10-27-2001, 01:26 AM
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DVHS and SVHS tapes are pretty much interchangeable if you keep the following in mind:

1) The numbering system for the tapes are different by a factor of two. A DF300 tape is exactly the same length (and recording time) as an ST150 SVHS tape. A DF420 is the same as an ST210.

2) DVHS tape is higher quality, more expensive, and offered in longer lengths than SVHS tapes. There's even a DF480 tape available in Japan that would be equivalent in length to an ST240 if it existed.

3) There's no advantage in using DVHS tape when recording analog unless you need the additional length offered by the DF420 tape.

-Roger
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Old 10-28-2001, 11:34 AM
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Newbie question again.... Recording using S-VHS recorder!

Video Recording:
Recording the Video from Cable is not a problem - straight s-vid cable.
Recording from the DVD, use the SIma magnavision buster via S-vid cable ????

Recording Audio:
Cable Recording - If using the analog outs to the S-vhs recorder will I get the standard Dolby Surr. (5.0 i think)

I understand that there must be a D/A conversion somewhere, as an analog device cannot record a digital signal...

My cable box has digital out, how can I get this onto the S-vhs?
Same for the DVD, how to get the digital dolby onto the tape?

:confused: :)
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Old 10-30-2001, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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When I record the Simpsons on my DH30000U using a DVHS tape, set to record in SP svhs mode, It looks like there is some color bleeding going on. Is this normal.
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Old 10-30-2001, 10:27 PM
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When you record in SVHS mode your JVC becomes an SVHS recorder. VHS and SVHS recorders are famous for color bleeding.

-Roger
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Old 10-31-2001, 11:40 AM
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On the JVC web site they say the HM-DH3000 can record broadcast HD.
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?productId=PRD4603000
To me this implies decoding of 8VBS. Can anyone confirm this?

Rick R
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Old 10-31-2001, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rick_R
On the JVC web site they say the HM-DH3000 can record broadcast HD.
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?productId=PRD4603000
To me this implies decoding of 8VBS. Can anyone confirm this?

Rick R
Nope--no HD tuner in the VCR. Like the Mitsubishi deck, it can only record HD from its 1394/DTCP/EIA-775-A connections. Unlike the Mitsubishi deck, it has HD analog component video outputs and an internal MPEG-2 decoder so it can display any non-copy-protected recording through those analog outputs in full HD, or copy-protected stuff image-constrained. Since no one should be broadcasting copy-protected material yet, and probably won't for some time to come, it should be able to replay anything it can record in HD over those analog connectors. According to other participants here, one can use it to monitor video from a 1394 source on the analog HD outputs, so if you ever got an STB of some sort with only 1394 HD connections, it could double as an adapter for your analog-only set.

There are a limited number of sources of input for it to record from yet. We've established that Sony's new XBR2 sets will not offer video from their ATSC tuners for recording through their 1394 connections; it's possible that Mitsubishi's new sets will. Sony's new cable boxes, being deployed now by Cablevision in NY, and some Scientific Atlanta boxes can be configures with copy-protected HD video pass-through ports (they have no HD analog connections and they lack the ability to decode MPEG-2 at HD bitrates). People who post here had some limited success recording from Panasonic's discontinued TU-DST50s and 51s, but it's an iffy thing.

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Old 11-02-2001, 07:32 AM
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If recording from digital cable or DSS,
Will it record the digital audio?

Once recorded from these sources will it(future) upconvert to progressive, or is the design to only pass 480i

Recording (prog) DVD's Will it record and playback 480p? Is a macrovision decoder required?



My point is for us mitsu HDTV owners are we stuck using an ISCAN forever on the back end of the d-vhs, because the line doublers in the Mitsu - suck! :mad:


THank You,
Mitch
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Old 11-02-2001, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wheezer
If recording from digital cable or DSS,
Will it record the digital audio?
It records the MPEG-2 stream, so yes, it gets everything that comes with it, including the digital audio. I don't have one, so I can't say for sure, but I'd image that even if you were watching downconverted video through its S-video connections, you could still listen to the 5.1 audio track.
Quote:
Recording (prog) DVD's Will it record and playback 480p? Is a macrovision decoder required?
Surely you're not talking about making a tape of a prerecorded DVD of a theatrical release, an illegal action? Do we discuss that sort of thing in these forums? ;)

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Old 11-02-2001, 06:16 PM
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Hi Mike,
Thanks for the info and the correction regarding "recording DVD's')
Lions and tigers and bears - OH MY!
Does the recorder record progressive from a progressive source?

WIll it upconvert a interl. to prog as does the ISCAN.

If so, my thought is to use it as a tape loop, (as well as a recorder of my favorite stuff)

I am the not so happy owner of a mitsu55857 who touts the worst doubler and comb filters for 480i incoming signal. I'm repeating myself - is the dissatisfaction level obvious?

Mitch
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Old 11-02-2001, 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by wheezer
I am the not so happy owner of a mitsu55857 who touts the worst doubler and comb filters for 480i incoming signal. I'm repeating myself - is the dissatisfaction level obvious?

Mitch
Mitch, you shouldn't worry, at least not about recordings made of HDTV. If the powers that be decide to use 1394/DTCP for copy-protection, it should be some while yet before they turn it on; until then, all the recordings you make with this unit from a digital source through the Firewire connections will play in full HD through its HD component outputs.

As for anything else, you wouldn't be able to record it digitally (except DV camcorder stuff--the camcorders have I.LINK connectors and the deck converts DV MPEG to the D-VHS variety). The only digital input on the thing is its 1394 connections. There's nothing to connect progressive scan video to, and no way to record digital audio that doesn't come in on an MPEG-2 stream through the Firewire.

I can foresee possible future STD DVD decks with Firewire outputs (though no one may bother, given that HD decks are 12-18 months away, making the product lifecycle of such a thing kind of brief). However, I can also foresee those same units presenting all content as "Copy Never" and not available for recording. I could be wrong.

-- Mike Scott

Mike Scott (XBL: MikeHellion, PSN: MarcHellion)

"Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist (sic)." -- hookbill
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Old 11-02-2001, 08:43 PM
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Mike,
Thanks I guess it's comes down to the usual - don't buy version 1.0 of anything. Wait for industry wide standards, debigging and soforth,
Mitch
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