Digitally emasculated HD-1000's on Ebay - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 10-24-2001, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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There are currently 4 HD-1000's on Ebay by the same seller. He states that they are not digitally capable because a small 2 part curcuit board is missing. He states the part number is VEPS5017A, which I could not find on the Panasonic web site. He states the part is on back order and should be available soon for $250. from Panasonic. He states that the decks are only analog capable without the missing part. What does everyone make of this?

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Dave
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post #2 of 24 Old 10-24-2001, 05:07 PM
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Hmmm. Could someone be using these parts to attempt an assault on DTCP? :)

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post #3 of 24 Old 10-24-2001, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike,

do you think this part is available somewhere? Or will the high bidders of these units end up with expensive analog machines?

If you search Ebay video for HD-1000, you will be able to read the seller's short narritive on how he acquired these machines.

Dave

Ps: They seem to be reproducing, now there are 7 available!
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post #4 of 24 Old 10-24-2001, 06:32 PM
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If these "parts" contain chipsets with DTCP tech in them, no one is going to be allowed to sell them to anyone except DTCP licensees--i.e., manufacturers. I really doubt that Panasonic is manufacturing or distributing any sort of replacement part for these units--they may not even be offering warrantee service for them, as in the case of DISH's 5000 STB. I have heard in these forums, though, that they've given recent warrantee service on the TU-DST50s and 51s (the complementary DBS STBs that were the only things these VCRs could record/play-back HD video from/to when they were sold). However, I suspect that a user opening up the case and removing a card would void any warrantee.

Sounds like a really bad deal to me. :)

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post #5 of 24 Old 10-24-2001, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Gridleak,

Do you have any spare VEPS5017a's lying around in your HD-1000 parts bin?

Dave
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post #6 of 24 Old 10-24-2001, 07:09 PM
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I went to E-Bay and looked up the auction. Very strange story they tell. If these things were leftover stock and display units for a long discontinued model, with this part (which I, like you, went to the Panasonic page that he linked to and failed to find) returned to prove that they weren't sold, why are they only now becoming available?

Fishy, fishy, fishy. But then, the seller has much positive feedback on the record, so it may be on the level. If you're really interested, you should call the parts 800 number and ask inquire about the part, and/or call an authorized Panasonic service center and see if they could reinstall it and for how much. The remote is available.

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post #7 of 24 Old 10-24-2001, 11:19 PM
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I saw those machines last night, and something is not right. Why would he sell them for $700 when he can spend $250 on the supposed available part, and then sell them for $1200 - $1400. He has spent a lot of energy researching the part #s and sources and obviously knows what a working HD1000 is going for on ebay.

My take on this is he hit a roadblock, and cannot get the part, so he is dumping them.

Or...........maybe he is just sick of waiting for Panasonic to come up with the part, and wants to get rid of them. If the MPAA pressured Panasonic into pulling the machines off the market, I wouldn't doubt they would cripple whatever they had, and sell as salvage at auction. Using that reasoning, I can't see them selling the part that would enable them.

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post #8 of 24 Old 10-24-2001, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RDave
Gridleak,

Do you have any spare VEPS5017a's lying around in your HD-1000 parts bin?

Dave
Yes, I have one that I purchased from Panasonic Services on 6/11/01 for $250.38. It's listed in the service manual as VEPS5017A Digital C.B.A. It's the only board for which no parts are available, and it is listed as "NR" (not repairable).

I'll be surprised if they are available from Panasonic anymore without an exchange.

-Roger
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post #9 of 24 Old 10-25-2001, 12:21 AM
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Another note of caution:

The PV-HD1000 pictured appears to be a "dealer demo" model rather than the consumer version.
Head replacement with the consumer version would also likely be necessary.

"Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not an engineer."
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post #10 of 24 Old 10-25-2001, 10:30 AM
 
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Looking at their other auctions, this company makes a business of selling untested surplus electronics, and does not want to be a repair house. The HD1000s with missing parts fit right in with the rest of their business and it all sounds fair and above board. Many of their items go for very low prices with the warning that they may not work. They even ask those who get an item that does not work to give them only a neutral rating to allow folks to assess what fraction of their items really work.

In other words, its a risk, bit at worst it could be useful for spare parts.
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post #11 of 24 Old 10-25-2001, 11:37 AM
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If the price is good, current PVHD1000 owners may want to consider getting one for a parts machine. The electronics including the firewire board will probably last a human lifetime. It's the mechanical components that wear out. Power supplies are also subject to failure from spikes and capacitor aging.

It would be nice five years down the road to be ablt to take your unit in for service and when told "we can't get parts for these anymore" you can say, "here is every part you need".

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post #12 of 24 Old 10-25-2001, 04:36 PM
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Following up on Glimmie's comment, is there a service manual available on the PV-HD1000?

HDTV Early Adopter
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post #13 of 24 Old 10-25-2001, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RickD_99
Following up on Glimmie's comment, is there a service manual available on the PV-HD1000?

Yes, there is (was?). As posted above the firewire board is a black box that must be replaced as a unit.

What no one has ever seen is a service manual fior the TUDST50/51.

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post #14 of 24 Old 10-26-2001, 09:14 AM
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Well, I grabbed one of the eunuch machines. We shall see.

-Roger
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post #15 of 24 Old 10-26-2001, 11:13 AM
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gents, how one can tell the fifference between "Dealer Demo" machine and "consumer version"

thanx

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post #16 of 24 Old 10-26-2001, 11:15 AM
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OOPS +difference+ fat fingers :)

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post #17 of 24 Old 10-26-2001, 12:00 PM
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Visual differences on demo machines:
1) About three-fourths of the top surface is perforated.
2) There's a black sticker on the back panel that says "Not for sale...etc."
3) There's a tiny sticker on the front panel right side that gives instructions on putting the recorder into auto replay mode.
4) They lack the large green promo sticker on the left side front panel that is found on consumer machines.
5) Serial numbers are in range from B9SA30001 to B9SA30500.

Functional differences are:
1) Different heads designed for longer playback life but not so good at recording. Heads can be upgraded easily. Info about that is here.
2) No auto head cleaner gizmo. Doesn't matter.
3) Don't need to use menu to go into auto repeat mode. Handy for parties.
4) No warrantee or repair. One forum member paid over $500 to have Panasonic "convert" a demo to a consumer.
5) Fan sucks instead of blows.

-Roger
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post #18 of 24 Old 10-26-2001, 03:15 PM
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thanx a ton Roger ! now I know what to look out for

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post #19 of 24 Old 11-01-2001, 06:54 PM
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Interesting thread. Not used to being talked about:) Glad you folks decided that we were basically on the up and up.

Fact is, I wish I had the knowledge of the machine you folks have. My effort has been strictly to present what the machine was and about my only clue was the $1400 bid price a used one had received on eBay during the week we were sitting on the shipment we got. Until then, we only thought we had a nice, jog/shuttle VCR and what's this digital thing and why won't it play the digital tape.

Relatively adept at searching net, I went to work searching google - Why this site didn't show up is a question of mine.

All I really understood is that the machine, which I could tell from my research, had a street price of about $690 when it was still available, was selling for double its value on eBay used. Cool.

I do want to opine about a couple of things.

First, as stated in the auction, I did contact Panasonic via telephone. On my first contact, I chose simply to order the service manual because the only information we had was the coded connection on the VCR's main circuit board. FYI, The units we got came with the cases removed on all of them. Probably four or five suffered internal damage because of the way they were handled by the service department of the retailer and we plan to part these out over time.

Anyway, we assumed that some of the units were demo units as one or two had the remote control connected to the case. Still the sheer volume suggested to us that the source was more than demo pulls. Rather we believe that new inventory units may have even been pulled and the part removed as that was, we think, the way that Panasonic chose to avoid having to re-inventory the units.

Regardless, in working the inventory, we didn't notice any variation in the grill pattern of the case. Which way the wind blows from the power supply, unless you're looking for it, is waay too subtle a distinction to even notice.

Given our experience with the vast majority of electronics is there is no difference between the shelf and display models, I am at this moment curious about this entire issue. This is not to doubt you folks, just to acknowledge that we weren't aware of the variation and didn't think to look for it. Fact is, I found this forum after a reader here mentioned this issue and cited the forum as his source.

There are a couple of other points that I would like to answer.

First, we identified the part as VEPS5017A from the service manual. We called after receiving the service manual and the order rep at first denied the existence of the part. "Look, I'm looking at it in black and white in the service manual, I know the part is your part and for this unit," I said.

At that point, apparently she looked at at different screen (the part is not on the web site) and told me that the item was to be available and was on backorder. It was to have been delivered on Oct. 8th, she said.

She indicated that I could place an order at that point -- asking if I had a service account with them -- and they would bill my credit card etc. when the item was received. As I was really concerned about availability, I questioned her on that point and she assured me that the item would be stocked.

I then asked, "What if I wanted 20 of them?" She said she couldn't take that order and that it would have to be run by some special group 'upstairs' somewhere.

Given the nature and sensitive issues surrounding this D=VHS recorder, I have a gut feeling that a larger order would not be filled.

That is the primary reason we don't order the parts from Panasonic direct.

As to whether the part will be made available at all, I have a real feeling that it will. The reason is that the service manual makes it pretty clear that this is not an outrageously complex printed circuit board. It also points out that it is, like the PCB for the Hi-Fi section, a part that is not stocked for a limited time.

I also have a feeling that if this part were totally disco'd, someone might drop a couple of thousand to reengineer it and have a thousand or so made. I can only speculate but I suspect that if they went to that much trouble, they just might make a change in the design that enables a direct firewire connection from DV camera to recorder or even recorder to recorder firewire connection, eliminating the firewire to Panasonic set-top box necessity. What about a computer to VCR firewire connection. All those possible functions were engineered out of the PV-HD1000 in order for it to tacitly comply with the 5'C's agreement that wasn't signed until this past summer, in part because content providers felt units like the PV-HD1000 went too far and gave the consumer too much copying capability.

Oh well, just thought I'd jump in and provide the seller's perspective of a few of these points and certainly ask those here for advise on positively identifying if these are demo machines or not.

gentraders

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post #20 of 24 Old 11-01-2001, 09:45 PM
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Greetings,

Thank you for presenting yourself to this tough crowd. You have certainly come to the right place. I'm quite confident that more knowledge about HDTV recording resides here than anywhere else on the net.

The Demo HD1000 are definitely different from the standard model. They were made for the specific task of playing and replaying the same tape 10 hours a day for months on end. The heads on that machine are not ideal for recording, so anyone acquiring such a machine will eventually have to replace the heads if it is to be used for recording as well as playback. The cost of doing that is about $250 if you do it yourself, and considerably more if you send the machine to Panasonic.

Your advertising material showed a photo of a demo machine, so that may have scared a few bidders off. Replacing the digital board and the heads is an expensive process, reducing the value of the demos by several hundred dollars. It would be advisable in the future to indicate whether or not the machine is a demo.

-Roger
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post #21 of 24 Old 11-02-2001, 08:34 AM
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Gridleak

Thanks for the welcome and my education commences.

Did a quick survey of the units we have and indeed, they are all, save one, demonstration units.

We've just tested the consumer unit for playback and it checks out.

As we have a fair inventory of the demo machines (our source is a rather large electronics retailer:), we'll continue to make these units, with an amended description, available probably through November. If someone is interested in quantities above 5 units for the demo units, we can negotiate a bit on the price.

If others here feel it is appropriate, I will announce the auction for the (at present) only consumer machine we have in house here, as I suspect the interest will be high.

BTW: The shipment we received was from only one region and we may obtain additional machines. I simply don't know as we are at the mercy of the retailers service dept.

Again, thanks for the welcome and the education.

gentraders

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post #22 of 24 Old 11-02-2001, 04:05 PM
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I just bought one of these to try to get a working system together after my original one wouldn't load tapes any more.

If I move the head cylinder and digital board to the demo unit, I should be OK, right?

I may just try to use the parts from the demo to fix the tape loading mechanism on my original one. Or, perhaps I should just send it in to Panasonic.

Too many options! I can't decide.

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post #23 of 24 Old 11-04-2001, 02:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Gridleak,

do you think Panasonic would continue to sell these parts? They sold one to you in June, and after all, they are not exactly a non profit org. Their just not allowed to sell complete HD-1000's, but they could make a tidy profit on this part at $250 each. Or is this just wishful thinking on my part?


Gentraders,

have you been able to even be put on the waiting lisst for the part?


Thanks,

RDave
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post #24 of 24 Old 11-04-2001, 09:34 AM
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RDave:

I was told that I could be put on the waiting list but because we have 20+ of these units, my initial interest was in getting more than two dozen. It was then I was told that would have to go through a different process.

However, now that I've found one 'consumer' machine in our inventory, it may make sense to order just one and retrofit that unit.

RDave, my understanding from talking with them was that single item or maybe two chip orders were going to be handled in a routine order, pay, ship routine... but they were temporarily out of the chips but had expected that situation to end on Oct. 8th.

I've not contacted them since but the consumer machine's value would be significantly greater than demo's and it would be good to prove absolutely that these parts are available.

gentraders

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