Motorola 34xx &64xx DVR "Official Thread" - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 07:07 AM
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I have the DCT6416. What is the difference between it and the DCH model. Is there an extra charge for the DCH Should I ask for a DCH. I did not see that answer anyplace on this thread.
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post #302 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCT6416UIIIuser View Post

I have the DCT6416. What is the difference between it and the DCH model. Is there an extra charge for the DCH Should I ask for a DCH. I did not see that answer anyplace on this thread.

DCT or Digital Cable Terminal is the model class of the older boxes - these boxes have decryption ability built in to the main board and therefore a no longer markets or sold because of the FCC mandate of 07/01/2007 (also known as the 707 Mandate) which requires all cable boxes to have "Seperatable" encryption.

DCH or Digital Cable Host is the new model which was designed to meet the 707 mandate. While the boxes have a destinctive visual update (it's been said they were designed by the same motorola team that did the popular RAZOR line of phones)

Given the 6416 was the most evolved of the DCT models the only REAL difference you'll find between a DCT6416 and a DCH6416 is that the DCH has a metal guard sticking out of the back that locks in the Cable card it uses.

Operationally the only difference is the card has to be Validated and our billing systems have to manage the Host box and the card as a combined item. (The Digital Addressable Controller really only cares about the CARD as that's where the Decryption of the signal is occuring)


On the other hand people using the older 6200 and 5200 HD DCT boxes will notice HDMI rather than the DVI port on the DCH6200 HD boxes (non-dvr)
and when they eventually start to phase out the oldest SD DCTs, the updated DCH boxes for SD feature more memory and faster processing versus the older DCT 2000s and 2500s.


If you've got a DCT6416, you're not missing out on anything - if anything you've got the most reliable and advanced box out there as far as DCTs go - and until all the bugs are working out of the DCH system - it's a Tad safer


Now that being said I'm sure someone's thinking "What do you means Bugs in the DCH system"

One of the major changes with the Advent of Cablecards is CCI encryption - this allows distributors the ablility to control what a DVR can and cannot copy and (in theory) it's future level of distribution - it may eventually control how long a DVR may be allowed to retain content.

Generally the default setup for all services in the MSO world is "externally supplied" which means if HBO says you can only copy it one time, it can only be copied one time.

In theory I've really never seen this accomplish much, given that that digital copying has been completely disabled - in practice what happens is certain channels and VOD services may not work if a card is not correctly validated.

This is an issue TIVO SIII users have dealt with for quite a while - in a Motorola world you'll have several numbers associated with a box - the two most important tend to be a Serial Number and a Unit Address.

With a cable Card you'll also have a Cable Card ID number. Once the card is paired with a host (a box or TV) a Host ID (which resides on the box or TV) is generated and there is also a DATA ID on the Card

All three of these numbers have to be correctly entered on a motorola system to validate a card.

At this time only the DCH boxes are truely 2 way host boxes - so if they fail a validation it can be pulled through the system at any time by an Admin or operator... on the other hand other host have to be manually validated (which is a pain in the butt!)

If a DCH box fails validation you'll generally get a screen on any CCI protected channel giving you the Card information - With systems that use Encrypted VOD you'll also get a message saying you lack Validation for VOD

Given the number of DCH boxes in use this does not happen often, but can be confusing as most techs and dispatchers are unfamilar with this scenerio.


There is no extra charge for DCH over DCT

Views & opinions stated here are strictly those of Me and not Charter Communications.

I no longer work in Tech Ops as such I can only advise & suggest.
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post #303 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 01:21 PM
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Man, am I ever glad to find this thread. I had the Moxi box for about 3 years and about 8 months ago went to the DCT6416 III. With Moxi, I NEVER had the problem of setting a recording in HD and then it being recorded in SD. Once I went to the 6416, this became a big problem. I never had the problem occur on channels that were standalone channels like HDNET.

Let me tell you more about the problem and what I had to do to help fix the problem. I have Charter in Greenville, SC. Here's what happens. When a new HD channel is added to the lineup that is a simulcast of an SD channel, whoever labels the channels on the guide that the 6416 uses for updates will label the channel as with the same name. That's what causes the problem. In my market, this happened most recently with the ABC affiliate, so let me give you an overview.

The local ABC affiliate, WLOS, broadcasts on Charter SD channel# 13. When we finally got the HD Channel, it was added as channel# 783. However, the lable for channel 783 was the same as channel 13, which is "WLOS." So I'd go in my system and set a series HD recording for channel# 783. The problem occurs when the 6416 would look to update the program guide. It sees the channel label on 783 as WLOS and thinks to itself "oh, I'm supposed to broadcast the SD signal on channel 783 because the guide is telling me that channel is WLos." Does this make any sense?

To fix the problem you MUST GET someone to change that channel label. In the case of the problem with the ABC affiliate, they finally changed the label for channel 783 to "WLOSD." I personally recommended "WLOS-HD" but I guess they thought that would sound stupid.

This isn't an easy request to make. First, you get a CSR that you've got to educate. Even so, before they understand it to be a head-end problem they'll insist on sending a tech out or even switching the box. For me, it's always a struggle. But once they correct the label on the HD channel that mirrors the SD channel, the problem is solved. Now, when I tell my 6416 to record the ABC series "Extreme Home Makeover," it's not so much that I'm telling it to record channel 783 as I am telling it to record the show from "WLOSD." If you think about it, cable companies doneed to move around their channel lineup from time to time.

I've had this same exact problem with my 6416 DVR EVERY SINGLE TIME Charter has added an HD simulcast channel of an SD channel. The good folks that set up the grid that Moxi boxes use for their channel guide updates are wise enough to not put the same label on the new HD channel.

Good grief! I would really feel like I did something spectacular if I could get the Charter folks to understand this when they initially set up the new HD channels on their grids. With the HD lineup expected to grow for Charter this year, I expect to continue fighting this battle over and over unless someone on this message board can preach to the unbelievers!
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post #304 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 01:29 PM
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That is a bug in the Guide software. It is a known problem that is scheduled to be fixed early next year.
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post #305 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itbgary View Post

Man, am I ever glad to find this thread. I had the Moxi box for about 3 years and about 8 months ago went to the DCT6416 III. With Moxi, I NEVER had the problem of setting a recording in HD and then it being recorded in SD. Once I went to the 6416, this became a big problem. I never had the problem occur on channels that were standalone channels like HDNET.

Let me tell you more about the problem and what I had to do to help fix the problem. I have Charter in Greenville, SC. Here's what happens. When a new HD channel is added to the lineup that is a simulcast of an SD channel, whoever labels the channels on the guide that the 6416 uses for updates will label the channel as with the same name. That's what causes the problem. In my market, this happened most recently with the ABC affiliate, so let me give you an overview.

The local ABC affiliate, WLOS, broadcasts on Charter SD channel# 13. When we finally got the HD Channel, it was added as channel# 783. However, the lable for channel 783 was the same as channel 13, which is "WLOS." So I'd go in my system and set a series HD recording for channel# 783. The problem occurs when the 6416 would look to update the program guide. It sees the channel label on 783 as WLOS and thinks to itself "oh, I'm supposed to broadcast the SD signal on channel 783 because the guide is telling me that channel is WLos." Does this make any sense?

To fix the problem you MUST GET someone to change that channel label. In the case of the problem with the ABC affiliate, they finally changed the label for channel 783 to "WLOSD." I personally recommended "WLOS-HD" but I guess they thought that would sound stupid.

This isn't an easy request to make. First, you get a CSR that you've got to educate. Even so, before they understand it to be a head-end problem they'll insist on sending a tech out or even switching the box. For me, it's always a struggle. But once they correct the label on the HD channel that mirrors the SD channel, the problem is solved. Now, when I tell my 6416 to record the ABC series "Extreme Home Makeover," it's not so much that I'm telling it to record channel 783 as I am telling it to record the show from "WLOSD." If you think about it, cable companies doneed to move around their channel lineup from time to time.

I've had this same exact problem with my 6416 DVR EVERY SINGLE TIME Charter has added an HD simulcast channel of an SD channel. The good folks that set up the grid that Moxi boxes use for their channel guide updates are wise enough to not put the same label on the new HD channel.

Good grief! I would really feel like I did something spectacular if I could get the Charter folks to understand this when they initially set up the new HD channels on their grids. With the HD lineup expected to grow for Charter this year, I expect to continue fighting this battle over and over unless someone on this message board can preach to the unbelievers!

toad's right - it's the A24 TV Guide software, It will go aways completely when A25 is released. It's also not limited to channels with the same name - it can happen when there's dramatically different names - mostly commonly with Soaps (local networks competing with Soap net) and some programs that get mulitple plays across networks (Like "Torchwood" on BBC and on HD Net)

You can frequently bypass it by telling it to record on ALL channels (it will usually pick just one and keep to it) or by setting up the series on a different channel...

Here in Hickory we not only have the HD CBS competing with CBS SD, but Spartanburg's CBS as well... and apparently the powers that be don't want to eliminate the extra CBS (ironically if you set a series on that one it works and the HD one will work, but no series on Charlotte's feed!!!!)

Trust me when I say SC/NC Management knows all about this one and we are pushing for A25 as soon as we can make sure it won't cause more problems than it solves.

Views & opinions stated here are strictly those of Me and not Charter Communications.

I no longer work in Tech Ops as such I can only advise & suggest.
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post #306 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toadtaste View Post

That is a bug in the Guide software. It is a known problem that is scheduled to be fixed early next year.

Right toad. I've read all 11 pages of this forum. So you can spend a grand or more on an HDTV and wait on the bug to get fixed (as I've noticed some posters from August have been doing) or you can get someone to relabel the channel today and not really care when the bug becomes a priority.

I can't see any problem with a label such as WLOSD on their HD feed. Never was a problem for whoever sets up the MOXI grid.
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post #307 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 02:02 PM
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I have a couple of problems with the "Future Recordings" that you might be able to help with. Maybe this will be taken care of with the A25 software release.

I will go through my future recordings and cancel some of them because maybe it's a rerun or maybe I want a show with a lower priority to record. When the program listing updates it loses that information. It's more of an annoyance when I'm in town. But if I'm out of town and it happens, then it's frustrating. Is there anything I can do now?

Also, when I look ahead to future recordings, sometimes what I see in the time slot is "to be announced." I've noticed that as I scroll ahead through the next 7 days it's always listed. It's only after I go far enough that the recording date goes from a week day listing to a actual date that this occurs. Any way I can fix that?

Thanks for your help.
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post #308 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itbgary View Post

I will go through my future recordings and cancel some of them because maybe it's a rerun or maybe I want a show with a lower priority to record. When the program listing updates it loses that information. It's more of an annoyance when I'm in town. But if I'm out of town and it happens, then it's frustrating. Is there anything I can do now?

You could try changing the priority level of the series (MyDVR-Series Priorities). You could also be experiencing the 'whack-a-mole' issue, see link.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_...a_whack-a-mole

Quote:
Also, when I look ahead to future recordings, sometimes what I see in the time slot is "to be announced." I've noticed that as I scroll ahead through the next 7 days it's always listed. It's only after I go far enough that the recording date goes from a week day listing to a actual date that this occurs. Any way I can fix that?

The above link also explains the 'to be announced' message a couple sections below the whack-a-mole one. Ideally the DVR holds about 2 weeks of listings. After the guide is completely populated the first week should be pretty much intact with show names as well as info, the second week is many times just the show listings with no info, obviously this varies quite a bit. If you've never seen this wiki before it's pretty good reading. And yes hopefully the A25 guide & new firmware version will fix these & some other things (or at least make them better). If all goes well we should see fairly soon as the area I'm in is slated for them in under 2 weeks.

Just my 2¢
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post #309 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 04:54 PM
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I don't have a long enough HDMI cable to run from my cable box to my plasma so the installer suggested just hooking up component cable from the cable box to the plasma. Is there a noticable difference in PQ if I use this rather than an HDMI cable?

PS I have a 720P panel (Panny 58")
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post #310 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickerz View Post

I don't have a long enough HDMI cable to run from my cable box to my plasma so the installer suggested just hooking up component cable from the cable box to the plasma. Is there a noticable difference in PQ if I use this rather than an HDMI cable?

PS I have a 720P panel (Panny 58")

For most people there is no discernible difference, the diehard enthusiasts & those believing everything salespeople say will say the true digital connection of HDMI is much better. It mainly depends on the TV, I've seen some that look better with HDMI & others better on component. Some of it's just in how the input is set up in the video picture preferences. I've tried both on my 57" Hitachi & I'm sticking with component, just my preference.

Just my 2¢
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post #311 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 05:23 PM
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CharterJames, I heard the next version of the guide is A26, not A25. Is there a difference between the two? Also, is there going to be any major overhaul of the interface in A26? I would hope so, the current I-guide interface pales in comparison to Verizon's IMG 2.0.
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post #312 of 2061 Old 12-28-2007, 07:42 PM
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I purchased a 6416/2300 over ebay. Reset it so showing 0. Contacted Novus in Vancouver - my provider - gave them serial and UA number. When they tried to zap my receiver they got an error saying Serial doesn't match.

They say they cannot do anything from here.

Any thoughts? The serial sticker on unit looks untampered with. Is the unit locked with a certain U.S. provider? If so, any ideas on how to unlock it? Any ideas on maybe using some sort of universal serial number that would work for all 6416/2300 units?

Is there another way to find the serial number of a unit?

Any help would be appreciated.

DJ

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post #313 of 2061 Old 12-30-2007, 09:35 PM
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Curious about that myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sansri88 View Post

CharterJames, I heard the next version of the guide is A26, not A25. Is there a difference between the two? Also, is there going to be any major overhaul of the interface in A26? I would hope so, the current I-guide interface pales in comparison to Verizon's IMG 2.0.

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post #314 of 2061 Old 12-30-2007, 10:06 PM
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I have Metrocast Cable and 2 Motorola DCT 6412 STBs.

They record HD content reasonably well, but their capacity is pitiful. This, plus the fact that they auto-erase content to make room for new recordings, or,if you protect the content just fail to record scheduled shows without a warning, make them hard to use.

Is there a modification that will increase HD capacity? There is a USB port on the back, but the Metrocast techs deny any knowledge of its use (for a second HD, for example).
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post #315 of 2061 Old 12-31-2007, 05:14 AM
 
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Generally, MSOs aren't enabling any means to increase HD capacity in their provided DVRs.
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post #316 of 2061 Old 12-31-2007, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickerz View Post

I don't have a long enough HDMI cable to run from my cable box to my plasma so the installer suggested just hooking up component cable from the cable box to the plasma. Is there a noticable difference in PQ if I use this rather than an HDMI cable?

PS I have a 720P panel (Panny 58")

I have the older 58" Panny as well (technically it's 768p), and, using the Moto 6412 as an HD source I cannot see a difference between HDMI and component.
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post #317 of 2061 Old 12-31-2007, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

Generally, MSOs aren't enabling any means to increase HD capacity in their provided DVRs.

Charter has enabled the USB expansion in BMC 90xx series DVRs (Moxi boxes) it's my understanding we'll make it happen on 64xx series once it's set up in a way that appeases the gods of the MPAA.

Bear in mind there's been speculation that Motorola would prefer to use the eSATA link for expansion over USB. So at this point it's not certain USB expansion will ever happen. Firewire is for Digital Video only so good money's on eSATA expansion for Moto DCT / DCH DVRs.

Views & opinions stated here are strictly those of Me and not Charter Communications.

I no longer work in Tech Ops as such I can only advise & suggest.
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post #318 of 2061 Old 12-31-2007, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRn View Post

Curious about that myself.

TVG versions are an interesting lot - generally there's about 3 to 4 versions out there, sometimes higher numbers might be reserved for specific systems - for example My market uses a CCOR (formerly nCube) VOD system, as such we've got to wait for CCOR to make an A25 compatible VOD application before we can switch from A24.

A25 is already deployed in some systems (thought I couldn't give any examples) A26 might be specifically geared for say Tandburg VOD systems etc.

At some point I know the Guide and VOD appilcations are supposed to become java based rather than legacy "APL" firmware applications - that may well be the A26 as well - unfortunately I don't have any good leaks @ TV guide

In the past there where different versions with different features (A18, A17 etc) which I believe was changed with the around A20-A23 (I remember A17, I'm not sure if we went to A19 and I believe A23 was the first one we had which was called I-guide, previous guides were just called TVG Tan or TVG Blue) I do remember last year at this point when we first went to I-guide incuring a MASSIVE influx of VOD issues which forced the rapid change to A24 to resolve the bulk of them - but unfortunately had it's own issues.

Views & opinions stated here are strictly those of Me and not Charter Communications.

I no longer work in Tech Ops as such I can only advise & suggest.
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post #319 of 2061 Old 12-31-2007, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmuckface View Post

I purchased a 6416/2300 over ebay. Reset it so showing 0. Contacted Novus in Vancouver - my provider - gave them serial and UA number. When they tried to zap my receiver they got an error saying Serial doesn't match.

They say they cannot do anything from here.

Any thoughts? The serial sticker on unit looks untampered with. Is the unit locked with a certain U.S. provider? If so, any ideas on how to unlock it? Any ideas on maybe using some sort of universal serial number that would work for all 6416/2300 units?

Is there another way to find the serial number of a unit?

Any help would be appreciated.

DJ

Is it Black front with a Silver casing - if so this is a DCH series and it requires the Card Serial (usually starting with MA) stickers should say "MCARD UA" and "MCARD SN"

Views & opinions stated here are strictly those of Me and not Charter Communications.

I no longer work in Tech Ops as such I can only advise & suggest.
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post #320 of 2061 Old 12-31-2007, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharterJames View Post

TVG versions are an interesting lot - generally there's about 3 to 4 versions out there, sometimes higher numbers might be reserved for specific systems - for example My market uses a CCOR (formerly nCube) VOD system, as such we've got to wait for CCOR to make an A25 compatible VOD application before we can switch from A24.

A25 is already deployed in some systems (thought I couldn't give any examples) A26 might be specifically geared for say Tandburg VOD systems etc.

At some point I know the Guide and VOD appilcations are supposed to become java based rather than legacy "APL" firmware applications - that may well be the A26 as well - unfortunately I don't have any good leaks @ TV guide

In the past there where different versions with different features (A18, A17 etc) which I believe was changed with the around A20-A23 (I remember A17, I'm not sure if we went to A19 and I believe A23 was the first one we had which was called I-guide, previous guides were just called TVG Tan or TVG Blue) I do remember last year at this point when we first went to I-guide incuring a MASSIVE influx of VOD issues which forced the rapid change to A24 to resolve the bulk of them - but unfortunately had it's own issues.

From what I know, I think Comcast here uses A24 as well, but we're going to A26. Over on BBR, there was a discussion on A26, and how it's supposed to be released in 08, going to be written in Java, and going to be implemented on all Comcast STBs, from Moto to SA to that mysterious Panny one. It's supposed to have options for 16:9 HD, so the guide would take up the entire screen on HDTV's. Link: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19107718-iguide

2 articles on that page about A26: http://www.multichannel.com/index.as...leid=CA6438864
http://www.itvt.com/wvlao%5Bitvt%5D-...ue7.32pt3.html
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post #321 of 2061 Old 12-31-2007, 11:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharterJames View Post

Charter has enabled the USB expansion in BMC 90xx series DVRs (Moxi boxes)

In which local areas?
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post #322 of 2061 Old 12-31-2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sansri88 View Post

It's supposed to have options for 16:9 HD, so the guide would take up the entire screen on HDTV's. Link: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19107718-iguide

2 articles on that page about A26: http://www.multichannel.com/index.as...leid=CA6438864
http://www.itvt.com/wvlao%5Bitvt%5D-...ue7.32pt3.html

The current Motorola STBs only use a 4:3 guide and menus. I would not expect that to change anytime soon.

What will change is the backgrounds. Before long, Motorola STBs and DVRs will have backgrounds that fill the full 16:9 screen, but 4:3 users won't lose anything.

As far as I know, Dish Network is currently the only provider with a full 16:9 guide, but IIRC, the rest of their screens and menus are just 4:3 on a 16:9 background. DirecTV also has a 16:9 guide in the works for 2008.
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post #323 of 2061 Old 12-31-2007, 03:08 PM
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Is it Black front with a Silver casing - if so this is a DCH series and it requires the Card Serial (usually starting with MA) stickers should say "MCARD UA" and "MCARD SN"

It is a DCT6416/2300 but thank you for your suggestion.

Is it possible that this receiver having possibley originated from Comcast in US - I purchased it over ebay - would be locked so it could not work in Canada and if so is there any way to unlock it?
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post #324 of 2061 Old 12-31-2007, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by djmuckface View Post

It is a DCT6416/2300 but thank you for your suggestion.

Is it possible that this receiver having possibley originated from Comcast in US - I purchased it over ebay - would be locked so it could not work in Canada and if so is there any way to unlock it?

Does it say Comcast on the front? Then it was stolen from them.
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post #325 of 2061 Old 01-01-2008, 04:03 AM
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Nope. No Comcast on front. Any thoughts why it wont work. UA that is on back of console matches diagnostics UA when call up menu screen. When contact cable company with UA and SN and they try to send signal to unit it is blocked. Cable company says they get error report saying SN doesn't match UA but these are the numbers on the unit so have no idea where to go from here or why it is not working.
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post #326 of 2061 Old 01-01-2008, 01:31 PM
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Hi all-

Quick question for you. I recently went into my local Comcast office to replace my older comcast box for a DCT-6412 (I needed the HDMI output as my old box only had DVI, my Onkyo 705 had serious handshake issues with the DVI-HDMI cable). However, when I got home and started it up, all my channels, except for HD, have two wide black bars on the side. Now I had bars before, but they were on the top, and all I had to do was Zoom 1 (or if it was real bad Zoom 2) on my Sammy 5884. Now 16:9 isn't anywhere close to 16:9, and Zoom 1 and Zoom 2 are no longer available? I have Wide Fit, 4:3, and 16:9, along with Just Scan (which sucks for non-HD material). I went into the menu and made sure my box was set for a 16:9 television, and it was, and it was also set to 1080i with 4:3 Override OFF. The only thing I can think is the 1080i option is the problem, but why didn't I have these big black bars on the side before, with my older model box? Any help, suggestions, or ideas would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks so much!

Tim
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post #327 of 2061 Old 01-01-2008, 01:58 PM
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Change your 4:3 override to 480I or 480P and it will fix your problem....

Bobby 

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post #328 of 2061 Old 01-01-2008, 02:11 PM
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Fixed my problem right up! Thanks so much!
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post #329 of 2061 Old 01-01-2008, 02:33 PM
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I have my DCH 6416 hooked to my surround system through the optical cable. I have all surround speakers working but nothing from my subwoofer. I tried the coax digital auidio and have the same issue. If I transfer the cables directly to my DVD player (no change on input on the surround system) the sub works fine. Is there something I am missing??
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post #330 of 2061 Old 01-01-2008, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kjkleins View Post

I have my DCH 6416 hooked to my surround system through the optical cable. I have all surround speakers working but nothing from my subwoofer. I tried the coax digital auidio and have the same issue. If I transfer the cables directly to my DVD player (no change on input on the surround system) the sub works fine. Is there something I am missing??

The program that you are watching is probably not being broadcast with 5.1 audio. My audio system has a selection that tells me the format of the incoming signal. Check your manual.
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