High-definition DVR file transfers now a reality! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 10-23-2007, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Today, Tivo officially enabled TivoToGo (TTG) and Multi-room Viewing (MRV) functionality on its TivoHD and Series3 HDTV DVRs.

This allows users to download high-definition MPGs from the Tivo using any web browser. With the free Tivo Desktop application, multiple recordings can be queued for download. Series can be set to automatically transfer to your computer every week after they are recorded. Recordings can be viewed as they are transferred on PCs, Macs, and Tivos over your home network.

Downloaded recordings are 100% bit-for-bit identical to the original. There is no downconversion or quality degradation of any kind.

You can also transfer high-definition MPGs from your computer to the TiVo for viewing.

For more information, see the Tivo threads in this forum, but a few screenshots are shown below:





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post #2 of 51 Old 10-24-2007, 07:30 PM
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Can you save back to the Tivo what you transfer from the Tivo to your pc? I ask because it'd be nice to transfer to the pc when you need more room and then if you want it back on the Tivo it'd be nice to do that.

What is MVR/Multiple room viewing?
Too bad Tivo series 3 HD cost so dang much. $300 or more. That $300 is crappy capacity too.
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post #3 of 51 Old 10-24-2007, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Can you save back to the Tivo what you transfer from the Tivo to your pc?

Yep. Tivo refers to PC -> Tivo transfers as TivoToComeBack, or TTCB.

You can transfer recordings to your PC, remove the commercials using a program like VideoRedo, and transfer them back for viewing. In fact, someone wrote a utility / script for VideoRedo to automate that process.

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Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

What is MVR/Multiple room viewing?

Multi-room viewing (MRV) refers to Tivo->Tivo transfers. Tivo allows you to give each Tivo a unique name, ex: Living Room, Bedroom, etc. When you have two or more Tivos, you see a folder at the bottom of your Now Playing (Recorded Programs) list for every Tivo in your home. Inside that folder is a list of all recordings on that Tivo. Clicking one transfers and plays that recording.

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Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Too bad Tivo series 3 HD cost so dang much. $300 or more. That $300 is crappy capacity too.

It's $253 on Amazon.com. However, you're right that 160Gb is almost useless for a product of this nature. With the new 9.2 software, Tivo added "plug and play" eSATA expansion, but at least for now, that feature on the TivoHD is only compatible with the 500Gb Western Digital DVR Expander ($199). You can replace the internal drive or add a larger eSATA drive, but that requires other, unofficial methods.
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post #4 of 51 Old 10-25-2007, 05:19 PM
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What restrictions are there on file transfers or playback software? Can you transfer any show to be played back by any MPEG player?

Get WMC Recording Storage Pooler 1.0.0.

Get ATI HD Registry Tweaks 0.16. Updated 2009-12-31.

Get Firewire drivers for DVRs. Updated 2009-02-25.
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post #5 of 51 Old 10-25-2007, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ExDeus View Post

What restrictions are there on file transfers or playback software? Can you transfer any show to be played back by any MPEG player?

You can't download content copy-protected with CCI=0x02.

What's curious is that I can transfer all sorts of programs from encrypted channels that I could not access via Firewire on the FiOS Motorola DVR or Comcast SA8300HD (back when I had it). With those DVRs, I could record my locals via Firewire but not much else. But with FiOS and the Tivo, I can record and transfer everything. With Comcast, I can transfer just about everything except HBO.

These providers must be disabling Firewire output on encrypted channels using something other than the CCI bit. I've noticed that these cable company DVRs show recordings from encrypted channels as CCI=0x01 (no more copies), while they remain CCI=0x00 on the Tivo.

Downloads are MPG format in a Tivo wrapper. When you install Tivo Desktop, it installs the Directshow filter necessary to decode that wrapper, so recordings can be played in any Directshow-capable media player. Several utilities are also available -- such as VideoRedo, TivoDecoder GUI for Windows, and TivoDecode Manager for OSX that will remove the wrapper and give you the MPG.
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post #6 of 51 Old 10-25-2007, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

When you have two or more Tivos, you see a folder at the bottom of your Now Playing (Recorded Programs) list for every Tivo in your home. Inside that folder is a list of all recordings on that Tivo. Clicking one transfers and plays that recording.

So you can't just play a recording from another Tivo, you must transfer it too?

Thanks
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post #7 of 51 Old 10-25-2007, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin View Post

So you can't just play a recording from another Tivo, you must transfer it too?

Correct.

TTG and MRV both copy the recording, but you can start watching immediately. You don't have to wait for the entire recording to transfer to view it.
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post #8 of 51 Old 10-25-2007, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

TTG and MRV both copy the recording, but you can start watching immediately. You don't have to wait for the entire recording to transfer to view it.

Is it copying or moving?

Would I notice any performance difference as I navigated while viewing the recording I am in the process of copying (or moving)? That is, is ff or rewind or skip (presuming I haven't overun the copying process) affected?

Is it possible to "pre-copy" one or more programs from one Tivo to another Tivo in preparation for future viewing, or must you copy/view as one function?
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post #9 of 51 Old 10-25-2007, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin View Post

Is it copying or moving?

It is a copying.

Many expect Tivo to implement moving in a future release.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin View Post

Would I notice any performance difference as I navigated while viewing the recording I am in the process of copying (or moving)?

There is no noticeable impact on performance of "local" DVR operations such as live TV or watching a recording.

You can do all of the following simultaneously:
  1. record two different HD channels simultaneously;
  2. watch a previously recorded HD program;
  3. transfer a HD recording from another Tivo; and
  4. download a recording from the Tivo with a PC or Mac.
Local DVR operations are always given priority. Downloads from the Tivo with your PC will be significantly slower if you are recording two different HD channels while watching a third, previously recorded HD program. On the other hand, if the tuners are set to SD channels, downloads will be significantly faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin View Post

That is, is ff or rewind or skip (presuming I haven't overun the copying process) affected?

Those functions are not affected when watching live or recorded programming.

With transfers from one Tivo to another, what you can do is obviously impacted by the speed of the transfer. On TivoCommunity, someone mentioned they were seeing MRV transfer speeds of up to 40Mbps when their Tivo Series3 was not doing anything else. When both tuners were recording from HD channels, they saw about 20Mbps.

High-definition programming requires anywhere from 8Mbps to 19.4Mbps depending on the content, channel, and level of compression. If your effective Tivo->Tivo throughput is 20Mbps, then you won't be able to do much commercial skipping on a 19.4Mbps recording, but you would no trouble at all skipping commercials on the 8Mbps recording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin View Post

Is it possible to "pre-copy" one or more programs from one Tivo to another Tivo in preparation for future viewing, or must you copy/view as one function?

Yes. When you select a program on another Tivo, it asks you whether you want to watch it now. If you click no, it will transfer and you can watch it later. You can queue up as many programs as you want for transfer, and the Tivo will copy them one at a time.

I agree it would be nice if Tivo were to provide some sort of auto-transfer option to [always] send certain programs to another box. That would seem like a good setting to have on a season pass (series recording), but Tivo evidently didn't think to add that feature.

Tivo does have that particular feature for their PC transfers. As shown in the second screenshot above, you can set every episode of particular series to transfer to your PC automatically.
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post #10 of 51 Old 10-26-2007, 05:27 AM
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Thanks for taking so much time to provide the concise answers I needed bfdtv!

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post #11 of 51 Old 10-26-2007, 02:36 PM
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Any information on the so-called 2008 DirecTiVO HD upgrades due then?
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post #12 of 51 Old 10-26-2007, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelLAX View Post

Any information on the so-called 2008 DirecTiVO HD upgrades due then?

Do you mean the software upgrade for the original HR10-250 DirecTiVo? Or the rumored new collaboration between TiVo and DirecTV? If you're talking about the latter, that's still very "wait and see" - it depends on what DirecTV's new owners (Liberty Media) feel like doing, though they'll probably be more open to collaboration than News Corp. was (they're they primary reason why the DirecTV/TiVo collaboration died).
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post #13 of 51 Old 10-26-2007, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelLAX View Post

Any information on the so-called 2008 DirecTiVO HD upgrades due then?

Yes, although unfortunately that doesn't have anything to do with file transfers or multiroom viewing. With the next DirecTivo software release, you will get overlap protection, a deleted recordings folder, online scheduling, and improved wishlists.
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post #14 of 51 Old 10-28-2007, 06:09 AM
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Hi bfdtv: Many thanks for all the useful info. I plan to "upgrade" to TivoHD from my current Sony DVR (clunky menu system). If I bought from Amazon instead of directly from Tivo, will the unit have the TTG and MRV functionality? I will also most likely invest on a Western Digital My DVR expander to increase the recording capacity.
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post #15 of 51 Old 10-28-2007, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuko_ako View Post

Hi bfdtv: Many thanks for all the useful info. I plan to "upgrade" to TivoHD from my current Sony DVR (clunky menu system). If I bought from Amazon instead of directly from Tivo, will the unit have the TTG and MRV functionality? I will also most likely invest on a Western Digital My DVR expander to increase the recording capacity.

Yes, all units support TTG and MRV, regardless of where you purchase.

You should be aware that transfers on the Tivo Series3 are significantly faster than the TivoHD with the current software. The Series3 is $339 from Amazon after the $200 mail-in rebate. If you don't mind waiting for the rebate check, that is currently the better unit. If slower transfers don't bother you, then the TivoHD @ $253 is great too.

The Tivo Series3 also has the advantage of (1) a better remote, (2) a 250Gb vs 160Gb internal hard drive, and (3) works with any eSATA drive out of the box --the TivoHD requires the Western Digital My DVR Expander.
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post #16 of 51 Old 10-29-2007, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Yes, all units support TTG and MRV, regardless of where you purchase.

You should be aware that transfers on the Tivo Series3 are significantly faster than the TivoHD with the current software. The Series3 is $339 from Amazon after the $200 mail-in rebate. If you don't mind waiting for the rebate check, that is currently the better unit. If slower transfers don't bother you, then the TivoHD @ $253 is great too.

The Tivo Series3 also has the advantage of (1) a better remote, (2) a 250Gb vs 160Gb internal hard drive, and (3) works with any eSATA drive out of the box --the TivoHD requires the Western Digital My DVR Expander.

Wow, you're such a wealth of information! I'm absolutely sold on the Series3 now that Amazon is offering a $339 price after rebate; I don't mind the wait. The $86 difference is more than justified by the faster transfer rate and compatibility with any eSATA drive (I already have a 500GB Cavalry). I've always wondered why the Western Digital My DVR expander is required and wedded to the TivoHD! Thanks so much for the tip.
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post #17 of 51 Old 10-30-2007, 10:02 AM
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Can anyone explain why transfers are faster on the S3 than the HD?
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post #18 of 51 Old 10-30-2007, 10:40 AM
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Thereis a huge FAQ here
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=371710

TivoPony briefly commented on this:
Quote:
Also, due to system resources, TiVo HD transfers are typically a bit slower at the moment. Speeding them up is something being investigated, but there is no additional information to share today.

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post #19 of 51 Old 10-30-2007, 12:11 PM
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Isn't TiVO Desktop Windows-only? Is there any way for a Mac user to accomplish the TiVo to computer file transfer other than using Roxio's Toast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

[*]download a recording from the Tivo with a PC or Mac.[/list]Local DVR operations are always given priority. Downloads from the Tivo with your PC will be significantly slower if you are recording two different HD channels while watching a third, previously recorded HD program. On the other hand, if the tuners are set to SD channels, downloads will be significantly faster.

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post #20 of 51 Old 10-30-2007, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtruett1 View Post

Isn't TiVO Desktop Windows-only? Is there any way for a Mac user to accomplish the TiVo to computer file transfer other than using Roxio's Toast?

Yes, there is a free utility to do it.

Tivo Decode Manager for OSX

Like Tivo Desktop, it lets you queue as many recordings as you want for download. It saves all Tivo recordings to your hard drive as MPG files. Here's a screenshot from their site.
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post #21 of 51 Old 10-30-2007, 02:57 PM
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That looks great, but when I follow the link: http://tdm.sourceforge.net/
it states (capitals mine):
"TiVoDecode Manager (TDM) is a free Applescript Studio interface (i.e. "wrapper") for the tivodecode program that automates the process of downloading of standalone TiVo Series 2 files to your computer and decoding into MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 files. It is NOT for Series 1 (ever), SERIES 3, or DirecTiVos (unhacked or hacked)."
As I'm getting either the TiVO HD from CostCo or Series 3 from Amazon, doesn't that let this out as an option. Giving me MPEG files to convert in Visual Hub would be ideal.
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post #22 of 51 Old 10-30-2007, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtruett1 View Post

That looks great, but when I follow the link: http://tdm.sourceforge.net/
it states (capitals mine):
"TiVoDecode Manager (TDM) is a free Applescript Studio interface (i.e. "wrapper") for the tivodecode program that automates the process of downloading of standalone TiVo Series 2 files to your computer and decoding into MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 files. It is NOT for Series 1 (ever), SERIES 3, or DirecTiVos (unhacked or hacked)."
As I'm getting either the TiVO HD from CostCo or Series 3 from Amazon, doesn't that let this out as an option. Giving me MPEG files to convert in Visual Hub would be ideal.

The author of TiVoDecode Manager has not updated the web site since video downloads were enabled on the TivoHD and Series3 last week. But that utility works great with the TivoHD and Series3.
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post #23 of 51 Old 10-30-2007, 04:49 PM
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That's great news. I don't know if this is the best forum to ask, but here goes. I used to have a DirecTV TiVo. I switched to Cox to get Padres games and have a ScientificAtlanta 8300HD, which I hate. I want to buy either a TiVo HD or Series 3 and use Cox cable cards. Here is my choice. I'd appreciate any recommendations:
(a) Get a TiVo HD at CostCo for $280 + CA tax. I know I can get them for less, but CostCo has the advantage of taking back items long after the normal period. I fried a couple of hard drives with my previous TiVos, so this is appealing. I do think I'd need the WD Hard Drive for TiVo as I'm always pushing my SA 8300 limit, which is the same capacity as the TiVo HD.
(b) get the Series 3 from Amazon for $339 after the rebate. I like the extra hard drive space. I may or may not want to get an eSATA drive for more. The better remote may be a reason or not. I use a Harmony 880, so the functions go into that.
I'm inclined to go with the second choice, but am concerned about hard drive durability and warranty. There is a 4 year service plan for $80
http://www.amazon.com/4-Year-Service...3787266&sr=8-5
I have a DLink draftN wireless network servicing an Apple TV and several printers, so I suppose either way I need the Wireless G Network Adapter as well.
Any opinions would be most appreciated. Thank you for your time.
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post #24 of 51 Old 10-30-2007, 05:26 PM
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I have been using the HD file transfer for a while and thought I would mention a couple of items.

1. I'm using two TiVo HD's and a few PCs. My transfer speeds (wired network) are far too slow to transfer and watch at the same time. You have to pretty much transfer the entire show before viewing.

2. My local cable company flags everything as protected outside of local channels. So most of what I wish to transfer can't be accessed.

I really wish they would allow transfers of all content from one TiVo to another restricting only transfers to PCs. I know it would open a can of worms but only having the ability to transfer network shows really hinders its usefulness... at least for me.
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post #25 of 51 Old 10-30-2007, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I really wish they would allow transfers of all content from one TiVo to another restricting only transfers to PCs. I know it would open a can of worms but only having the ability to transfer network shows really hinders its usefulness... at least for me.

Most expect TiVo to add the option to move copy-protected from one DVR to another with the next release. Moving -- but not copying -- of protected content is allowed by the CableLabs' DFAST licensing agreement.
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post #26 of 51 Old 10-31-2007, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

You can't download content copy-protected with CCI=0x02.

You can if you perform the usual mod of your box (prom mod & tivoapp patch). It's all detailed in the dealdatabase forum.
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post #27 of 51 Old 10-31-2007, 02:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Most expect TiVo to add the option to move copy-protected from one DVR to another with the next release.

Is this expectation based on TiVoJerry or TiVoPony making any comments to the effect?
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post #28 of 51 Old 10-31-2007, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

Is this expectation based on TiVoJerry or TiVoPony making any comments to the effect?

No. But it is common sense.

The only way to display CCI=0x02 content on anything except the source device is to move it. The CableLabs' DFAST licensing agreement doesn't permit anything else, so there are no alternatives.
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post #29 of 51 Old 10-31-2007, 11:14 AM
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If I transfer recorded programs from my TiVoHD to my HP Media Center and store them in my My Videos folder I am supposed to be able to play these programs with no problem while in MCE.
My question is if I setup my XBOX360 as a media center extender will the 360 also be able to play these transferred TiVo files?

Thanks
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post #30 of 51 Old 10-31-2007, 11:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

No. But it is common sense.

There is no such thing as common sense. Let's talk about the "percentage of hard disk free" feature. Clearly what a lot of customers think is "common" sense is really just "consumer" sense, or more properly the sense of those specific customers.
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