How much would you pay for HD-Tivo? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 11-27-2001, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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How much would you pay for an HD-capable Tivo unit, capable of recording 20 hours of 1080i programming?
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post #2 of 18 Old 11-28-2001, 01:26 PM
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It would, of course, depend on the features.. Such as:

- Ability to record OTA Digital SD & HD
- Ability to record DirecTV, including HD
- Two tuner, view while recording or record two pograms

If it did all that, I would definitely pay $1000. If it had the two tuners, like the DirecTivo, I would probably even go up to $1500.
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post #3 of 18 Old 11-28-2001, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tji
It would, of course, depend on the features.. Such as:

- Ability to record OTA Digital SD & HD
- Ability to record DirecTV, including HD
- Two tuner, view while recording or record two pograms

If it did all that, I would definitely pay $1000. If it had the two tuners, like the DirecTivo, I would probably even go up to $1500.
I would also say, I wouldn't buy anything right
now even if it were available. With dish/direct
merge up in the air, now is not the time to buy
a box.
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post #4 of 18 Old 11-28-2001, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by samiam


I would also say, I wouldn't buy anything right
now even if it were available. With dish/direct
merge up in the air, now is not the time to buy
a box.
And I say now and forever screw any PVR with DIRECTV or DISH or any other proprietary system built into it (except maybe as a leased STB from a cable or DBS company). Unless the studios somehow get the unrecordable DVI/HDCP-only past the Congress and the courts, these boxes would have some recordable digital video connection on them to which any kind of STB could be connected, hopefully including the ability to control the source (to request a particular channel, etc). This would be the best and most adaptable solution.

If this connection were through the 1394 A/V protocols (IEC-61883 and EIA-775A with at least AV/C and possibly HAVi), and the PVR was connected to an STB capable of tuning two or more programs simultaneously, it should be able to record two programs simultaneously (or more, limited by the 200 Mbps capacity of the variety of FireWire used in the A/V standards and the speed of its disk interfaces).

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post #5 of 18 Old 11-29-2001, 01:31 PM
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My vote was for 1000.00 but I must add the list of features required to get that kind of money outta me:

1) Dual OTA tuners (1 HDTV and 1 NTSC)
2) Dual DirecTV Sat tuners
3) dual IDE ports for total of 4 IDE drives
4) support for drives larger than 128GB
5) removable brackets and software support for hot-swapping drives
6) Ehternet port (no POTS lines required)
7) VGA and component out
8) Tivo-level recording software (Season Pass, Wishlists, etc)
9) Lifetime subscription option
10) Record on 2 tuners and watch pre-recorded at same time (ala DirecTivo)
11) dual live buffers
12) I'm getting writers cramp - I'm gonna stop now :-)

endlessly (and mindlessly) in pursuit of clarity and precision
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post #6 of 18 Old 12-02-2001, 04:02 PM
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Agree with SmokeBringer's list.

But for price, I'd say that around $800 should do it.

The box is really nothing more than a DirecTivo with the HD ouput elements of the DTC-100. Just add one of the 160GB drives currently on the market for decent storage.

Recording HD from the Sat is no harder than recording SD. It's just another transponder bitstream dumped to the disk.
So stuff like dual tuner, etc. should work fine.

While they're at it, grab the ATC OTA tunner stuff from the DTC-100 as well and add recording of OTA channels.
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post #7 of 18 Old 12-03-2001, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to all who have responded so far. For the benefit of those who commented above, I'd like to point out that I did mention the Tivo brand name, so my implication was that all standard Tivo functions (Season Pass, Lifetime Sub, etc.) would be included.

Keep voting! :)

Bob
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post #8 of 18 Old 12-03-2001, 03:46 PM
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I voted for "less than $500", because I am poor. As much as I love both TiVo and ReplayTV, I did not think anybody would be willing to pay over $800 for a PVR. After seeing that there are people out there who were actually willing to pay up to $1500 for the new ReplayTV 4000 units (and even some people who bought 2!), I am obviously wrong. I would love to see something like this on the market, done right! (i.e. with all the aforementioned capabilities) If TiVo made a device like this, I don't see why they couldn't charge over $1000 apiece for them. I would probably wait for the price to drop a bit, but I am sure there are plenty of people out there with money to burn who would buy one even if they charged $2000.

GO LAKERS!!!
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post #9 of 18 Old 12-03-2001, 10:12 PM
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I went with $800, which is about how much I think could put on together using off the shelf parts. Although, as long as Tivo is using the TeraLogic Janus platform, and as long as TeraLogic keeps backing out of their offer to support GPL drivers I don't think I'd buy at any price.

  

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post #10 of 18 Old 12-04-2001, 05:34 AM
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I talked to TIVO about this and they said it won't happen. They said they have no plans to do it since the drives are costly and they think the market is not there. If you love TIVO and want to see one why not get a petition started if you get 10,000 plus I'm sure they will reconsider. I'd buy one because I love HBO HD and HDNET and PPV and would love the ability to record those PPV so I can watch them at a reasonable time.

I was lucky in the order, but I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folk - Unforgiven cannot wait for the hd-dvd of this gem
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post #11 of 18 Old 12-04-2001, 11:59 AM
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Quite frankly, the company we need to be lobbying to produce an HD-TiVo is not TiVo but Sony. Remember that TiVo does not manufacture hardware, so it's not really in their best interests to design a high-end piece of hardware and then try to convince their manufacturing partners (Sony and Phillips) to build it. TiVo is focused on lower-cost higher-margin products so they can gather more subscribers.

Under their latest licensing agreement with TiVo, Sony can produce other hardware designs using the TiVo software. Since Sony already has HD receiver technology in-house (ie. the SAT-HD100), you'd think that they could turn out a TiVo-enabled version without much trouble.

Given the current price of HD receivers is in the $800 range, I'd happily pay $1500 or more for one that included TiVo and enough storage to handle HD broadcasts.

/Matt
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post #12 of 18 Old 12-04-2001, 06:20 PM
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Another company that might come through with something is Sonic Blue/ReplayTV--they're hungrier than Tivo and seem to be more innovative right now.

I still think that we won't see anything until some agreement can be reached on copy-protected digital HD outputs. The makers of HD D-VHS decks are taking something of a risk with 1394/DTCP--they're JVC and Mitsubishi, gigantic conglomerates. I'm not sure that companies the size of Tivo or even Sonic Blue. Sony could take such risks, though, and has already with their three 2002 sets with 1394/DTCP connections.

-- Mike Scott

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post #13 of 18 Old 12-04-2001, 07:14 PM
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The first you'll see of these will be a STB-Tivo combo; I doubt you'll ever see a separate tivo device for HD recording and absolutely never with component outputs. Hang on for about another year, around the same time when STB's with 1394 start appearing.

G.
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post #14 of 18 Old 12-05-2001, 09:30 AM
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After living with a DirecTivo for a while I'd easily pay $1500 for a HD equivalent. Even with 15-20hrs record time.
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post #15 of 18 Old 12-06-2001, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HiDefGuy
The first you'll see of these will be a STB-Tivo combo; I doubt you'll ever see a separate tivo device for HD recording and absolutely never with component outputs.
If Mitsubishi, a DIRECTV OEM partner, comes out with an STB that will provide HD video through 1394 to their televisions, it will also work with their HD D-VHS VCR and with an outboard PVR. No reason for it not to. Using standard AV/C control, the PVR could tune the STB at will. Also no reason for such a device to not have HD component video outputs--DTCP just states that if a device has these, it has to apply image constraints (reduction of resolution to a maximum of 540x920) to protected HD video output through it. If the HD video was recorded without protection, which the vast majority of HD video (rebroadcast OTA television, pay cable/DBS with commercial interruptions) would be, it can be shown through HD component video outputs unconstrained. Even the content on the subscription movie channels (HBO, Showtime, etc) might not all be fully copy-protected--the older stuff might be shown with Image Constraint Tokens, allowing the output of full HD resolution through analog outputs. (The DTCP Adopters Agreement allows pay-per-view to be marked unrecordable, but gives a special dispensation to PVRs to keep up to 90 minutes of "Copy Never" material buffered for "trick-play" effects like rewind, fast-forward and pause. It also allows PVRs to replay "Copy One Generation" stuff marked "Copy One Generation"--instead of "Copy No More"--so that recordings on the PVR can be archived to permanent media). PVRs would be quite useful to people with "legacy" monitors without copy-protected digital video inputs, even given these limitations.

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post #16 of 18 Old 12-11-2001, 10:50 AM
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I don't think there is question of wheather or not there will be HDHD recorders (Hi Def Hard Disk), it's just a question of when. I mean, eventually all video will be digital (supposedly by 2006, but I really really doubt it). I bet that the 1st HDHD recorder will be released by Sonic Blue (ReplayTV brand), not Tivo, and it will only record OTA. Tivo won't even put a 30-second skip on their decks (while ReplayTV automatically skips all commercials), you expect them to record Hi Def???
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post #17 of 18 Old 12-11-2001, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rbird
How much would you pay for an HD-capable Tivo unit, capable of recording 20 hours of 1080i programming?
I missed the poll, but I would put the ceiling at $1k, with $800 being a reasonable price.

This would need to have TiVo level of program guide, options and handle DIRECTV as well as OTA (and A/D for NTSC would be nice but not a must). And 2 tuners of course.

Another thing to note - 'Hollywood' does not mind a 35 hour TiVo, as it is a time shifting device. They have trouble with a 150 hour TiVo, where it potentially becomes an archive. So the guy who wanted 4 drive bays, etc for expansion may not get his wish... :(

Still, this is all speculation. Though it is encouraging to see DTRECTV + OTA DTV receivers already - Sony would only have to blend two of their current products to fulfill our wishes... :)

Cheers!
DAve.
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post #18 of 18 Old 12-11-2001, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hmoazed
I don't think there is question of wheather or not there will be HDHD recorders (Hi Def Hard Disk), it's just a question of when. I mean, eventually all video will be digital (supposedly by 2006, but I really really doubt it). I bet that the 1st HDHD recorder will be released by Sonic Blue (ReplayTV brand), not Tivo, and it will only record OTA. Tivo won't even put a 30-second skip on their decks (while ReplayTV automatically skips all commercials), you expect them to record Hi Def???
Recording HiDef is not conceptually any different to recording DIRECTV. Just save the stream in a file. Maybe add some management for OSD, etc.

Adding a 30 second skip is much more difficult ;)

Cheers!
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