Recording HDTV on a professional DV deck with Component inputs. - AVS Forum
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Old 11-28-2001, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Would it be possible to record a (downrezzed) HDTV signal from the Dish 5000/Remodulator/TU-DST51 via the Component outputs with a Professional DV recorder that had Component video outputs? And maybe later in full HDTV from A 16X9Time modified RCA DTC-100 when that became available? The DV Deck in question also has IEEE 1394-195 I/O.

Thanks?

Dave
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Old 11-28-2001, 02:29 PM
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I would say no. Unless the DV deck can accept 480P. 1080i or 720p is not possible.

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Old 11-28-2001, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the lowest common denominator for component inputs? 480i?

Dave
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Old 11-28-2001, 03:24 PM
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Yes component supports 480i.

I have recorded HDTV from my RCA DCT100 via S-Video to my Sony miniDV TRV30 camera and the quality is just plain outstanding. On my regular Toshiba 32" SDTV, I can't tell the difference between the broadcast SVideo HDTV and the miniDV recorded SVideo.

Going from SVideo to Component may or may not be a noticable improvement.

What I can tell you is I feel the quality on a regular TV is on par with DVD quality on a regular TV using SVideo.

Mike
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Old 11-28-2001, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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What gave me this idea was this on the 169time.com web site regarding the HDVR-1000:

HDTV on SDTV Tape


How is this possible?

The HDVR-1000 utilizes a Patent Pending process to use DV tape recording equipment to carry HDTV signals through the recording and playback cycle. There is no loss of High Definition picture or sound quality with this process.

The signal recorded and played with the DV tape is the actual HDTV signal. The HDVR-1000 system records and plays HDTV. It does not convert or reduce the picture or sound quality of HDTV. The full quality is achieved on playback.


I had this DV deck and thought it would be cheaper than buying a Panasonic HD-1000 D-VHS deck. Now if 169time can come through.

Dave
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Old 11-28-2001, 05:44 PM
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What you CAN do today is use DVTransfer or DVSpoof and a PC with a Hipix HDTV card and a Firewire card. In case you don't know about this, here's how it works:

1) Tune in the HDTV channel with your Hipix card and record it to the hard drive

2) Use DVTransfer to send the recorded HDTV program via Firewire to your DV deck or camera and record it on the tape.

3) To playback, use DVTransfer to restore the files back to your hard drive, and after the first file is restored (each is 1 minute of HDTV) then start playback and you are watching your recording in full HDTV glory

Just do a search on the HTPC forum for DVTransfer

-Mike
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Old 11-29-2001, 07:13 PM
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I knew this would come up sometime.

"Component" as is used by the consumer is not the same as what is used by the professional DVCAM recorders. First off the pro DVCAM recorders input what is known as YUV or YIQ component. This is a betacam standard of Y, R-Y, B-Y, It is not RGB with sync on G. Some professional decks may have RGBHV recording but these will be a 480i frequency level which is standard definition NTSC horizontal frequency. (15.75 Khz)
The long story short is that, no, the outputs from the Panasonic TUDST50 is not compatible with these. Use an extron transcoder to convert this type of "component" to the type of component used on the recorder if it has one and that would get you component DV recording in standard definition. Yopu would be approaching about 500 lines of res horizontal and 480i with this method.

Conversion of s-video to component will do no better than s-video quality. Once again, you can't create resolution where none existed.

Most DVCAM prodecks use either SDI or 1394 to get true component without codec artifacts. While YUV is good, it is not native DV format so what ever you do you will be dealing with a codec. I think what 169Time was achieving is using 1394 and maintaining a native DV in full bandwidth so you are actually getting an HDTV recording. I recall that Richard Adams claimed that he had a working prototype of a DV camcorder recording a 1394 HD signal. I'll let him explain those details if he cares to. I understand that his last post he was a bit busy satisfying the current backorder situation to discuss this stuff here.

FWIW- I use DVCAM with both 1394 interfaces to digital compositior and DVCAM with YUV inputs to the hybrid (linear )video editor here so I'm pretty up on how this stuff looks and converts.
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Old 11-30-2001, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by thorr

Going from SVideo to Component may or may not be a noticable improvement.
What I meant to say is using Component instead of SVideo for 480i material for recording to DV may or may not be a noticable improvement.
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Old 11-30-2001, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Don,

thanks for the explanation. It really helps to have Industry Professionals in the Forum to keep us in the straight and narrow.
I meant to say in my post that I was contemplating buying a Professional DV recorder, the Panasonic BR-DV600U miniDV deck, but I understand from your post how it would not have worked using the component inputs (which are, as you say, is set to the betacam specifications).

One more question. Would I be able to record SDTV from the Dish 5000/REmodulator/ DST-U51 using the IEEE 1394 DV in/out connector, or is this something no-one knows the answer to as yet?

Thanks again,

Dave
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Old 12-01-2001, 05:54 AM
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thorr-

OK, I understand now.
The improvement with component YUV over S-video Y/C is marginal if the original was recorded in any of the color under tape formats such as 3/4U, VHS, SVHS, Hi8, etc. JVC did add component video I/O to their SVHS industrial decks some years ago but the improvement was, IMO, marginal over simple Y/C.
On the otherhand, since DV is not colorunder, but actually a component tape format to begin with, having component I/O while not as good as native DV with 1394, will show significant improvement using YUV interconnects. I use a DVCAM DSR60 feeder deck here for getting DV video into my component analog edit system and the difference between YUV and Y/C is dramatic. Not so, as I said, with the SVHS player.

RDave-
You just need to tune to a channel that has, a DD audio signal as that will be a requirement to record since the only way to get modulator output is to have DD audio on the SD channel. Once you select a channel with DD audio but with SD video, just record like you would any HDTV channel. The picture will be in SD 4:3 AR and the audio will be on DD, either 5.1 or 2.0 or what ever flavor they may decide to metadata you. If you tune to a channel that does not have DD audio you will not get a picture either. I have recorded this so I know it works! I have not tried to feed a conventional RF channel 3 output to the DST50 and record that on DVHS. That is a simple thing to test so I would think someone here has tested it. I just have not had the reason to try it.
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