My 169time Experience - AVS Forum
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Old 12-12-2001, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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When Andy Thomas first announced the availability of the DTC100 DV mod in early January, I was probably the FIRST person to send in a payment. I was so excited that I overnighted him a check the next day so I could be near the top of the install list. I don't recall exactly how much money I sent him, but it was around $600 (I paid for the "one year upgrade option" and installation, too). I'm not going to rehash all that has gone on with the company since then (check the archives); let's just say that as of a month or two ago I had written off my $600 and assumed that there would never be a product.

I really wasn't that interested in the Panasonic HD1000 capability since I didn't own an HD1000 and knew they were discontinued; the DV is what I really wanted. When Richard Adams made his post several weeks ago I decided to give him a call just to see what was going on. We had a great hour-long conversation and I ultimately decided to go ahead and send my DTC100 in for the Panasonic DVHS mod. Here's why:

1) I already owned a DV camcorder (which is what attracted me to the whole DV concept to begin with), but knew that I would end up buying a standalone DV deck for convenience. These cost around $1k.

2) I asked Richard a simple question: If the DV capability were production ready, how would it stack up against the existing Panasonic DVHS option? He said that DVHS would be his top choice, followed by Hi8, with DV at the rear; primarily because of the physical size of the media and the possibility for dropouts caused by this. All three would produce great results, but DVHS would probably be the most reliable and dropout-free.

That pretty much sealed the deal for me. I found a nice Panasonic HD1000 on eBay for a little over the $1k I would have spent on a DV deck, and I sent my DTC100 to 169time last Thursday to be modified.

A few comments on my dealings with 169time over the past few weeks:

1) Emails have been answered promptly and Richard has been available every time I have called him.

2) They found a problem with my DTC100 (poor signal reception when cold) which they emailed me about and I discussed on the phone with Richard. I decided to go ahead and have my DTC100 modified anyway since I leave it turned on all the time and had never seen that problem happen to me.

3) Despite that delay, the mod was completed and the unit was shipped back to me promptly on Tuesday and I was emailed a tracking number. It is currently on a FedEx van in my neighborhood and I will be receiving it today.

I'm not going to condone the lack of information that we all suffered through for many months; however, I believe that they are making a concerted effort to resolve these problems and my experience the last few weeks has been outstanding.

I do think that HDnet and HBO-HD recording is forthcoming and that is the "holy grail" in my mind. If not, I still think I got my moneys worth.

Tomorrow I will post a followup regarding how the unit performs. If you are like I was and sitting on the fence regarding getting your DTC100 modified, give Richard a call. I'm sure he'll be more than happy to hear from you.


-Dave Knight
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Old 12-12-2001, 10:26 AM
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Dave, looking forward to your post on how your unit works against your expectations. Let me know if I can be of any help also. Getting Richard to post his number and pick up the phone was no easy matter to convince him but I believe it is well worth the energy he is putting in now.

dave
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Old 12-13-2001, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately it appears that the Panasonic PV-HD1000 that I bought off of eBay is not all that it was cracked up to be. It may very well be a "demo" unit, but it has none of the external signs of being a demo unit. The serial number label says "Model No. PV-DVHS2" instead of "Model No. PV-HD1000". The seller bought it from someone who works at Panasonic, so who knows what exactly this thing is. Regardless, it seems to talk a different protocol than a standard HD1000.

I am going to attempt to locate someone who is in the Atlanta area that has a Panasonic HD1000 and see if I can at least confirm that the 169time mod is not the culprit. Then I will pursue getting the HD1000 taken care of. Fortunately, the seller seems quite willing to work with me to resolve the problem.

More to come soon, hopefully....

-Dave
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Old 12-13-2001, 08:17 PM
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As I wrote on your other post, does the light flash once a second on the deck? I know that the 169time, as stated, only works with the PVHD-1000. If this is not what you have, I would assume it doesnt work because you have the wrong deck. I would send the unit back to the seller and get your money back. Then buy a real consumer HD1000.

Dave
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Old 12-14-2001, 09:29 AM
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dknight,

What's the full serial number and mfg date of the machine?

Does the VHS mode work ok?

If you look inside:

Does it have a digital board and is it connected to the iLink connector?

What number is marked on the center of the upper cylinder?

-Roger
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Old 12-14-2001, 10:36 PM
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Dave, whats the status of our DVHS2? Talking to Richard, he would like a chance to see it for a few days to do some data collection on it if possible.

dave
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Old 12-15-2001, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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More details on the unit I bought off eBay:

On the rear of the unit is a plain white sticker that says:

MODEL NO. PV-DVHS2
*barcode*
SERIAL NO. J8SA30089
*barcode*

There is NO manufacture date on the label.

The exterior of the unit looks EXACTLY like a standard commercial PV-HD1000.

VHS Mode does appear to work ok.

Inside there is a small board that the iLink connector is attached to. A 5-conductor gray cable runs from that small board to another board at the left rear of the unit. This other board has the following printed on it:

EAMX5
MADE IN JAPN
ASSY.NO.VEPS0A66 A
CM8918
VJBS0A66

This board doesn't have any components on it; it just seems to provide a way to connect six separate sets of cables together and interface to the main board.

The Upper Cylinder has the following markings:

J D
1 1 6

I've never opened one of these things up before so I don't know if what I described sounds like a "real" HD1000 or not.

Dave: My current inclination is to return this to the seller and purchase a known-good HD1000. He purchased this from a "source" inside Panasonic, so who knows exactly what this thing is...

-Dave
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Old 12-15-2001, 08:48 AM
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Dave, Please call Richard before you do anything with the unit.

Thanks

dave
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Old 12-15-2001, 09:47 AM
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Dave - will those who paid for dtc mod back in Jan be contacted to have their dtc100 units modified ?
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Old 12-15-2001, 10:48 AM
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You can either contact richard from the 169time web site or let me know your info and I will pass it to him directly. Anyone who has paid, he is ready to modify your unit and ship.

dave
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Old 12-15-2001, 11:08 AM
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Dave, Dave, and Richard,

Thanks, Dave, for venturing inside your machine. It is seriously different from anything I've seen. In particular the digital board is not standard. Both types of HD1000's use the VEPS5017A board which definitely has components showing.

The sequence of numbers on the upper cylinder ("JD" first instead of last), and the early serial number (HD1000 consumer machines have the form "a9SCnnnnn" and demos are "B9SA30nnn"), seem to indicate that it's an earlier prototype.

-Roger
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Old 12-15-2001, 11:52 AM
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Roger, do you think this is an ealier prototype of the HD1000 or a prototype of a next gen HD1000?

Dave
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Old 12-15-2001, 06:54 PM
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I couldn't speculate more without seeing it.

-Roger
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Old 12-16-2001, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some quick pictures I took:

http://communities.msn.com/Panasonic...s/shoebox.msnw

-Dave
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Old 12-16-2001, 10:58 AM
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Well, it's certainly not a standard HD1000! Besides a different digital board there's a lot of differences on the left side where the power supply and sub-power supply boards normally reside. The large fan is gone and replaced by a small one mounted on the back panel (they cut right thru the "Caution electric shock" sign). The circuit board on the left side is a lot more than just a power supply.

I looks like this was built from production HD1000 parts and modified for some special purpose. Is there any other label on the back? Is the acceptable power requirement different, such as 100 VAC, or 100 to 220?

-Roger
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Old 12-17-2001, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback, Roger. Richard Adams is quite interested in having a look at my recorder so I'm going to send it out to him this week. I'm sure he'll give it a thorough going over and do whatever he can to get it communicating with the DTC100 mod.

I will post updates to this thread in case anyone else is interested in what exactly this unit is.

-Dave
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Old 12-18-2001, 03:56 AM
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Let me know as well.I was looking at the same unit for sale.Thanks Gregg

Who are you going to believe,me or your lying eyes?
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Old 12-18-2001, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Gregg,

I believe you are talking about a totally different type of HD1000 than I have. There is a company called Gentraders that is selling HD1000s with demo heads and the digital firewire board REMOVED for around $299. I did not buy mine from Gentraders but from an individual who purchased several (five, I believe) HD1000s directly from a source inside Panasonic. My unit looks like a standard commercial HD1000 from the outside and apparently communicates properly with a DST50 but does not work with the 169time mod and also has "demo" heads.

If you need digital playback/record capability I wouldn't buy one of the Gentrader machines without first securing a digital firewire board from Panasonic or else you'll end up with an expensive used SVHS VCR.

-Dave
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Old 12-18-2001, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dknight
...They look like standard commercial HD1000s from the outside and apparently communicate properly with a DST50 but do not work with the 169time mod and also have "demo" heads.

If you need digital playback/record capability I wouldn't buy one of the Gentrader machines without first securing a digital firewire board from Panasonic or else you'll end up with an expensive used SVHS VCR.

-Dave
Dave,

How can it "...communicate properly with a DST50..." if you're saying that it doesn't have the 1394 card installed and you have to get one from Panasonic first???

Just curious:confused:!!!

Dave Harper
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Harper Home Theater Systems
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Old 12-18-2001, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, my post may have been a bit confusing. I was talking about the unit I purchased (not from Gentraders) that can communicate with a DST50 but not the 169time device. Mine has some sort of 1394 card, but it is not the same one that is in a standard HD1000.

The units sold by Gentraders don't have ANY 1394 card, so will not communicate with ANYTHING (DST50, 169time, etc) unless you can locate and install a 1394 card.

-Dave
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Old 01-04-2002, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I finally heard back from 169time (I sent them my strange HD1000 two weeks ago), and I thought that some of you might be interested to hear what they had to say:

---------

Here is the analysis of the deck you sent us:

The subject machine is referred to herein as a DVHS2.

The front panel markings appear identical to the usual PV-HD1000 deck.

The rear panel labelling is notably different since the usual PV-HD1000 units have that model number on their rear panel and also a date of manufacture is stated, but no date is explicitly stated on DVHS2.

Rear Panel Label of DVHS2:
Model PV-DVHS-2
Ser # J8SA30089

Label on bottom says
Cable Compatible television
apparatus Canada GRR part II.
(repeated in French)

There was no self cleaner mechanism in this DVHS2, but then some of the usual PV-HD1000 units also do not have this, in particular the earlier PV-HD1000 units.

The DVHS2 has six video heads on the cylinder rather than eight. The internal board arrangement is conspicuously different than most PV-HD1000 units.

The fact that the head and board configuration is so different leads one to believe that the tape format used would be incompatible with other more common PV-HD1000 decks. Further testing verified this.

Using a TU-DST50 as the source, the DVHS-2 machine did record and playback (on itself) a 22 minute HDTV test segment to a DVHS tape ok, no dropouts. An SVHS tape wasn't tried.

HDTV Tapes recorded in DVHS2 don't play in the eight head PVHD1000 machines, and do not play in the Jap 30000 JVC DVHS deck I have access to at the moment.

HDTV Tapes from eight head machines don't play in the DVHS2 machine.

The zero / 1 minute button on the remote doesn't advance the tape 1 minute during playback as it does on the 8 head machine.

The communication is different enough that the 169time box considers those differences to be errors and can't support the DVHS-2 unless 169Time develops the firmware changes needed to account for the differences. 169TIme has not made a decision to do this development.

The 169Time adapter does work in the multideck mode, permitting the monitoring of machine to machine dubbing using the DVHS-2 deck as the source deck.

Observations- This machine was not exhaustively tested but did appear to have the basic recording and playback functions working with a TU-DST50 that has a newer version of firmware. If a person were to make a libarary of recordings with DVHS2, although the library would be incomatible with more common and newer machines, they tapes could be played in the DVHS2 (if still working) and digitally dubbed to another machine that had better support.

Adapting the firmware to support this uncommong deck would have a relatively low priority with us right now. We are ready to send it back. Where and how shall we proceed?

-----------

I have decided to return the HD1000 to the seller and am now back to scanning eBay for a used HD1000. Sigh...


-Dave
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Old 01-04-2002, 11:32 AM
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Dave,

I've been ask to look at one of these DVHS2 machines as well. While the information sent you by 169Time is largely correct, the DVHS2 does in fact have the same number of heads as the HD1000. The heads are simply arranged differently. The digital heads are in the form of two dual-heads rather than four single-heads, which accounts for fewer head stations around the cylinder.

The track sequence is the same as the HD1000, so there's really no reason why the DVHS2 can't be set to be compatible with standard machines. They appear to be limited production modified versions of the HD1000, and it's possible they were purposely adjusted to be incompatible.

Could you tell us who the ebay seller was?

-Roger
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Old 01-04-2002, 04:47 PM
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I should correct my statement above about compatibility by saying that it could be so as long as the azimuth of the DVHS-2 heads is the same as the HD1000 heads within a few seconds. The standard is 30 degrees, so they should be the same, but it's very difficult to visually verify compatibility. See the photos here, particularly the one of a new head, to see how small the gap is in comparison to the track width on DVHS machines.

-Roger
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