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post #181 of 319 Old 10-30-2008, 09:09 PM
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It's obviously female Ruyter Suys of Nashville Pussy fame:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7WXIsFCiJI
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post #182 of 319 Old 10-30-2008, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

Actually, part of the problem with rock and roll is that not enough people are willing to stand up and take a stand on anything. There's always room for light weight pop or mindless whatever, but U2 had principles and stood up for them.. That's a godo thing in my book. Maybe if more bands did that, we'd have young people who are a little more socially and politically aware. Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby speak to me very deeply.

Well, with me it's always ultimately about the music. If I ever hear more than a few of their songs occasionally on the radio 30 years from now I'll be surprised.

Besides, I go to church and read the papers for that kind of stuff - I don't really want to hear it in my Rock & Roll - I barely ever pay much attention to lyrics. Do you think "Won't Get Fooled Again" has stood the test of time because of the lyrics?
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post #183 of 319 Old 10-31-2008, 12:23 PM
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Besides, I go to church and read the papers for that kind of stuff - I don't really want to hear it in my Rock & Roll - I barely ever pay much attention to lyrics. Do you think "Won't Get Fooled Again" has stood the test of time because of the lyrics?

Do you think that Pete Townshend considers Bob Dylan one of the most influential people ever in rock music, as did Jimi Hendrix and thousands of other very well known artists, because of the music? Dylan is almost universally recognized among musicians as one of the most import influences of all time, because of his lyrics and because of (at least in the early days) his highly political ('preachy') lyrical content.

He stood up and spoke truth to power with elegantly constructed lyrics, and that's why he's so important. He's why The Beatles moved beyond She Loves Me, Yeh, Yeh, Yeh, and they of course were in turn why being a song writer, and having hopefully something to say, became a required skill for bands afterwards. And of course they also were why Dylan in turn got more creative on the musical side.

And do you think that Pete Townshend just threw those lyrics out so that Roger would have something to scream over the music? No, those lyrics were very important to him and he very much intended people to listen to them and understand them, and they are political lyrics just as much as anything on The Joshua Tree. If you don't listen to them and think about what they mean, the lacking is in you, not in the lyrics. That album was originally part of a much larger project that was very socio-politically involved and experimental, but eventually got whittled down to the songs on that album.

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post #184 of 319 Old 10-31-2008, 02:35 PM
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Dylan was regarded as a poet. And a lot of his songs are catchy. There are a lot of poetic musical artists who never attained his level of popularity and/or staying power. And it certainly wasn't for his "sprituality". His spitiual periods weren't exactly his most popular.

And do you hear stuff like "Blowin' in the Wind" on the radio a lot? No - you hear stuff like "Knockin on Heaven's Door", and "Positively 4th Street", and "Lay Lady Lay", and "If Not for You", which are soundtrack and personal songs, more than his political ones (well, I guess "Highway 61" is kinda "in between" as far as religious, because he does reference biblical figures).

The Beatles didn't get all that serious with any of their lyrics until they split up. Or at least right before, with "Let it Be". And even then, only Lennon and Harrison did afterwards.

And I'm lacking because the music is more important to me than the lyrics? That's crazy.

I don't want to preached to by Rock bands, and I don't want politics layed on me by Holltwood *stars*. I think I'm far from being alone on that. I care - I do what I can, when I can - but U2's got the millions and the power to do something about the problems they drone on about - not me. As far as donating directly to charities, I don't trust the middlemen. I'm certainly going to be wary about helping someone who's trying to lay a guilt or responsibilty trip on me that's already got millions themselves. Jesus didn't have a pot to piss in. No need to question my social awareness or participation. I haven't lived a sheltered life, like a lot of these naive Hollywood stars have.
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post #185 of 319 Old 10-31-2008, 03:06 PM
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Some of the best rock has been politically motivated and like most music, is affected in its inspiration by life, in general. It moves us when we relate to it. That might be personal, it might be political, or it might be spiritual. It is pointless to try to separate it out.

Lots of great political statements in rock...the event and the song Woodstock...Hendrix's version of the national anthem was exactly a political statement.

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post #186 of 319 Old 10-31-2008, 04:37 PM
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I don't want to preached to by Rock bands, and I don't want politics layed on me by Holltwood *stars*.

Oh, OK, you are one of those people. It's not that they have a message, it's that you assume they'll have a message you don't agree with I guess. Do you have a problem with country stars singing heavily patriotic songs?

Oh well, luckily some musicians still take their job as social critic seriously. Not nearly enough of them, because of course it doesn't sell as well. I'm a great believer in capitalism but this is one of it's weaknesses. It too often only tells you what you want, not what you should hear. But that's not really a weakness of capitalism, but of the people who make up capitalist society. Everyone want to live in a world where they only hear opinions that are like theirs. This is one of the biggest growing problems in this country, everyone pulling back into their own little politically comfortable world where everyone agrees with them.

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post #187 of 319 Old 10-31-2008, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Well, with me it's always ultimately about the music. If I ever hear more than a few of their songs occasionally on the radio 30 years from now I'll be surprised.

Besides, I go to church and read the papers for that kind of stuff - I don't really want to hear it in my Rock & Roll - I barely ever pay much attention to lyrics. Do you think "Won't Get Fooled Again" has stood the test of time because of the lyrics?

+1. It's all about the music for me, probably why I like Satriani so much. His music speaks to me even though he rarely sings. In fact, I'm listening to "Until We Say Goodbye" right now and its as if he is speaking to me; I can feel the message through the music. Simply awesome!!

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And I'm lacking because the music is more important to me than the lyrics? That's crazy.

Certainly not. As stated above, I don't need lyrics to emotionally connect with the music. If the artist is talented, they'll be able to tell the story through the music.

This is NOT a knock on lyrics at all, by the way. Most of the stuff I listen to has lyrics. I guess Rammitinski and I are just a rare breed.

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post #188 of 319 Old 10-31-2008, 08:45 PM
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I've certainly got nothing against instrumentals, though I think it's clear why so few of them succeed broadly, because lyrical content is important to most people. Though certainly that can be yeh, yeh, yeh more often than blowing in the wind. La Via Stangiata certainly does it for me as in instrumental.

But lots of artists are trying to say something. And I think many of them find it frustrating when no one pays any attention, or when everyone spends the entire concert stage diving instead of listening to what's being said. So many artists get into music because they have something to say, only to find out that, if they finally reach a broad audience to say it to, that almost none of them listen.

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post #189 of 319 Old 10-31-2008, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

Oh, OK, you are one of those people. It's not that they have a message, it's that you assume they'll have a message you don't agree with I guess.

I never said I disagreed with them - I just said I didn't want to hear about it non-stop.
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post #190 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 06:12 AM
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Wow! Talk about getting off topic, but I will add my two cents for what it's worth. I pretty much don't like Dylan because I don't understand what he is trying to say. My nephew, who is just six years younger than me, thinks he's the greatest and can understand why I don't.

When I was in College I took a class in literature and had to read books like Madam Bovary, Candide and Metamorphisis. I would come to class and these people would be talking about how they got all these meanings and how they got this and that from the book. I could tell what the story was and it was obvious that I read the book just like they did, but other than Candide none of them sent a message to me.

I asked the professor one day why don't I get it like others in the class do. He looked at me and said "Are you really good with numbers?" I said yes. He just said "Then don't worry about it, you will never get it". And to this day I don't get it, but I still like listening to music even though I rarely understand the message if, in fact, there is one.
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post #191 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

I've certainly got nothing against instrumentals, though I think it's clear why so few of them succeed broadly, because lyrical content is important to most people. Though certainly that can be yeh, yeh, yeh more often than blowing in the wind. La Via Stangiata certainly does it for me as in instrumental.

But lots of artists are trying to say something. And I think many of them find it frustrating when no one pays any attention, or when everyone spends the entire concert stage diving instead of listening to what's being said. So many artists get into music because they have something to say, only to find out that, if they finally reach a broad audience to say it to, that almost none of them listen.

I can agree with all that, for sure. I just happen to not care much about the lyrical content. I, of course, am careful about what I listen to (I always browse through the lyrics to ensure it doesn't disagree with my personal morals), but if the music can speak to me without the use of the human voice, I'm impressed.

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post #192 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 10:15 AM
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I'll bite... You guys have made some good points about lyrical content, and instrumental music. For the record, I am another of the "rare" instrumental kind, but do appreciate a good story. Honestly most of what I listen to either has no lyrics (Jazz), minimal lyrics (punk, funk, and rock), or your basic poem or story set to music (blues, R&B, some Rock).

Like JimKW pointed out (not directly but this is why he doesn't "get it"), we are basically having a Left/Right side of the brain argument. I won't go into any detail about it as I am no neuropsychologist, but one side of the brain is processing the music, and the other deals with the words. This is a cool little test:

if you see the dancer spinning clockwise you are more right-brained and probably are more into the music.
If you see her turning counterclockwise, you are more left-brained and chances are that you relate more to the lyrical content.

Neither one is CORRECT, we all use both sides of the brain, just to different degrees.
I can actually switch the direction that she turns, but for me she starts out clockwise (most of the time).

My opinion is that the politics have a place within rock and roll (or other music) If we don't want to hear it, or don't agree it we can choose not to listen. There have been a couple of artists that I no longer listen too because of some of their lyrics. If the musician is going to expose that much of themselves with their words, then they are taking that risk, and many do and have lost or gained whole audiences by mixing politics, or religion with their music.

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post #193 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 10:32 AM
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That is strange. The first time I looked she was definitely spinning clockwise. Then I looked up while reading what you wrote and she was spinning counterclockwise. The she switched again and ended up counterclockwise and I tried and tried to get it to be clockwise. You sure she doesn't change directions?
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post #194 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 10:39 AM
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"There is no spoon"; she doesn't rotate at all....

"But I didn't do it...!"
"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #195 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 11:50 AM
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Hmmm.... I'm the one arguing for lyrical content but I see her spinning clockwise.

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post #196 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 11:58 AM
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BTW, I should say that when I mentioned the country artist singing heavily patriotic songs, I don't have a problem with that either. I generally feel that the problem is seldom at the podium, and mostly in the seats, where the bulk of people really aren't thinking about what they are hearing and what it means, they are just reacting blindly, either without any understanding or with a very shallow understanding that's easily manipulated. That's always dangerous in my opinion. I the people in the audience really thought about what they were hearing, it wouldn't matter what the person at the podium said because the people in the seats couldn't be lead like sheep in either direction.

We really need to make being smart cool.

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post #197 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimKW View Post

That is strange. The first time I looked she was definitely spinning clockwise. Then I looked up while reading what you wrote and she was spinning counterclockwise. The she switched again and ended up counterclockwise and I tried and tried to get it to be clockwise. You sure she doesn't change directions?

Pretty much the same experience for me. When I look sometimes she is moving clockwise and other times counter clockwise.

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post #198 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 04:20 PM
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Instrumental music lover here. In fact, I listen to 99% classical and jazz. Of the classical stuff, most of the choral works I enjoy use religious texts, and I'm not really a religious person. I just happen to love the music.

I could list some classical guitarists here, but I'll pass for now . . .

Otherwise, for more bluesy, calypso, trinidad, reunion, stuff . . . basically blues from colonized islands . . . lot of 3 vs 2 rhythms . . . anyone else a fan of Bob Brosman?

I personally really like "Live Now". He also, literally, wrote the book on National Guitars (single cone, tri cone, resonators . . .)

cheers!

p.s. if you happen to live in Europe, you have a better chance to see him live. Otherwise, he does go to NAMM show every year in so california for the National booth, and will play a concert or two nearby. He's awesome!!!

 

 

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post #199 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye911 View Post

Pretty much the same experience for me. When I look sometimes she is moving clockwise and other times counter clockwise.

It is switching - I stared at it long enough to see it switch a couple of times. You can actually see it "hitch".

I probably should've made it clearer, but I wasn't really separating music with and without vocal tracks - I was just saying that I don't pay that much attention a lot of times to the lyrics, and the music in the song was more important to me.

Of course, sometimes the vocals are "part" of the overall musical sound - either the rhythm or the melody - but I'm talking specifically about lyrics, not vocals. It's just the content that I don't care about that much.

I do listen to the lyrics enough to filter out some of the stuff I find more objectionable, though. But I don't mind someone talking about spirituality in a song - it's just outright prosthelytizing that I don't particularly want to hear. For instance, George Harrison's spiritual lyrics don't bother me, because he keeps it personal and fairly ambiguous most of the time.

As far as spiritual, you can be uplifted mightily that way without any lyrics. Some of the Windham Hill stuff does that for me. Liz Story is one of the best.

As far as music with a "story", I'm usually not crazy about that stuff. I have no use for something like "Alice's Restaurant" - but if it's a good musical song with a simple progressive story to the lyrics that's not drawn out too long, I don't mind that - especially if it occasionally goes back to a chorus - something like "Gimme Three Steps", for instance. Or even without a chorus, if it's something like Genesis' "All in a Mouse's Night". That's great musically, and has got a cute little ending - more like a fairy tale or an old fable without the moral. Not laying any kind of heavy trips on anyone.

But musically, "A.'s R." isn't what I'd consider a great song. It's a somewhat popular cult piece, for sure, but that doesn't automatically mean it's great. Some may disagree, but I don't think I've ever been able to sit through that whole thing - with the canned laughter and all. The main focus of that song is the lyrics/story, which I personally don't find all that engaging. It's a little too folky-corny ("Mighty Wind"-ish) for me. Maybe you'd want to hear it once, just to hear the story, but after that, why even listen again?
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post #200 of 319 Old 11-01-2008, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkmonkey View Post


My opinion is that the politics have a place within rock and roll (or other music) If we don't want to hear it, or don't agree it we can choose not to listen. There have been a couple of artists that I no longer listen too because of some of their lyrics. If the musician is going to expose that much of themselves with their words, then they are taking that risk, and many do and have lost or gained whole audiences by mixing politics, or religion with their music.

Cheers,
Funk

Bingo! I totally agree.

Great experiment, funk. To my eyes, she is clearly spinning clockwise.
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It is switching - I stared at it long enough to see it switch a couple of times. You can actually see it "hitch".

I probably should've made it clearer, but I wasn't really separating music with and without vocal tracks - I was just saying that I don't pay that much attention a lot of times to the lyrics, and the music in the song was more important to me.

Of course, sometimes the vocals are "part" of the overall musical sound - either the rhythm or the melody - but I'm talking specifically about lyrics, not vocals. It's just the content that I don't care about that much.

+1 Couldn't have said it better myself.

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post #201 of 319 Old 11-02-2008, 01:54 AM
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She doesn't switch direction... you perceive her to switch (so do I). It is a simple GIF file that completes one "rotation" and then repeats. If you are interested in pursuing the right/left brain theory more there is tons of info available... just google it (thats how I found the dancer).

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post #202 of 319 Old 11-02-2008, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I tried my hardest...couldn't get her to switch to counterclockwise. She maintains clockwise at all times for me. I guess the left side of my brain is dead.

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The thing is, I'm a software engineer and musician, so I obviously have to have two functional hemispheres. But I see only clockwise.

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post #204 of 319 Old 11-02-2008, 11:09 AM
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For me she switches when I am not looking directly at her and reading (left brain activity) and then look back to find that she is now spinning counterclockwise. If I concentrate on her center most foot I can switch her direction at will... takes a sec but I can switch it back and forth. cool little thing, I'm glad you guys liked it too.

We all have two functional hemispheres, but one usually dominates. Just like we are right or left handed, we have a dominant eye, ear, foot, nostril, we chew on one side more than the other....
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post #205 of 319 Old 11-02-2008, 01:05 PM
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For me, if I close my eyes and concentrate I can choose which way she is spinning when I open my eyes. It works this way about 80% of the time.

The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out.
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post #206 of 319 Old 11-02-2008, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

Oh, OK, you are one of those people. It's not that they have a message, it's that you assume they'll have a message you don't agree with I guess. Do you have a problem with country stars singing heavily patriotic songs?

Oh well, luckily some musicians still take their job as social critic seriously. Not nearly enough of them, because of course it doesn't sell as well. I'm a great believer in capitalism but this is one of it's weaknesses. It too often only tells you what you want, not what you should hear. But that's not really a weakness of capitalism, but of the people who make up capitalist society. Everyone want to live in a world where they only hear opinions that are like theirs. This is one of the biggest growing problems in this country, everyone pulling back into their own little politically comfortable world where everyone agrees with them.


Phlease! Now you're just like that Hillary Duff commercial.

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post #207 of 319 Old 11-03-2008, 06:39 AM
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Oh well, luckily some musicians still take their job as social critic seriously.

I thought their job was entertainer?

But I like lyrics, and enjoy digging into those songs that can hold up to such scrutiny. I don't mind when they include various types of messages, even if I often disagree.

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post #208 of 319 Old 11-03-2008, 06:41 AM
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The silhouetted dancer spins clockwise for me. I am left-handed (writing and eating) and right-handed (all sports), and I prefer interesting lyrics to catchy musical hooks. But she's only spinning clockwise in my perception.

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post #209 of 319 Old 11-04-2008, 01:42 PM
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All this preaching about artists preaching. I can't take it:-)
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post #210 of 319 Old 11-04-2008, 01:55 PM
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on track here - sorry!

just watch a satriani concert on DISH the other day. man, awesome. he gets my vote for now. just awesome.

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